How many years after Wilson leaves is Carroll still coach?

[oldhawkfan]

I don't think that Wilson wants to be here and that's a problem. So sooner or later he won't be. With a disinterested ownership it would appear that Carroll is safe.

The rest depends on what comes next. Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB. Seeing that play out without a 35M QB would be interesting (no, Jackson wasn't decent) as we have never really seen that. You would think the run game would improve and defense with more resources allocated to it.

The outcome of that would determine how long Carroll stays and that scenario is so murky I'm not sure what it looks like.

Do you have actual proof of his system working with a decent but not great QB? The only success Pete Carroll has had in the NFL, is with Russell Wilson at QB!

 

[Hawkpower]

I don't think that Wilson wants to be here and that's a problem. So sooner or later he won't be. With a disinterested ownership it would appear that Carroll is safe.

The rest depends on what comes next. Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB. Seeing that play out without a 35M QB would be interesting (no, Jackson wasn't decent) as we have never really seen that. You would think the run game would improve and defense with more resources allocated to it.

The outcome of that would determine how long Carroll stays and that scenario is so murky I'm not sure what it looks like.

Do you have actual proof of his system working with a decent but not great QB? The only success Pete Carroll has had in the NFL, is with Russell Wilson at QB!

Wilson was asked to play a decent but not great role when they won the Super Bowl.

That team was so dominant in other areas, they could have won it all with quite a few guys under center.

 

[TwistedHusky]

I once thought that too. But if you go back you notice a number of great throws under pressure Wilson made to keep key drives alive.

Still, does it matter?

Likely a number of other QBs could win with the LOB and that DL/LB group. We don't have D that now though.

Can any other QB win with Carroll's system, with his gameplanning, and this roster?

You would be hard-pressed to find that.

Especially a QB that could come back and win games because of this defense and our lack of urgency in the 1st halves.

Maybe Mahomes, Allen, couple of others...but not many and most of the QBs you would need are top mobile QBs. The only guy that might be able to pull it off is now a Jags backup QB. Maybe if you got Gardner but otherwise no.

 

[Hawkpower]

I once thought that too. But if you go back you notice a number of great throws under pressure Wilson made to keep key drives alive.

Still, does it matter?

Likely a number of other QBs could win with the LOB and that DL/LB group. We don't have D that now though.

Can any other QB win with Carroll's system, with his gameplanning, and this roster?

You would be hard-pressed to find that.

Especially a QB that could come back and win games because of this defense and our lack of urgency in the 1st halves.

Maybe Mahomes, Allen, couple of others...but not many and most of the QBs you would need are top mobile QBs. The only guy that might be able to pull it off is now a Jags backup QB. Maybe if you got Gardner but otherwise no.

The poster claimed Pete had never done it.

I simply refuted it because he has

 

[CPHawk]

Jody will sell to Bezos, he will let Wilson have more say in things. Wilson stays, Pete is retired in 2 years. Jeff pays McVay anything he wants, and he takes over as HC.

 

[oldhawkfan]

I once thought that too. But if you go back you notice a number of great throws under pressure Wilson made to keep key drives alive.

Still, does it matter?

Likely a number of other QBs could win with the LOB and that DL/LB group. We don't have D that now though.

Can any other QB win with Carroll's system, with his gameplanning, and this roster?

You would be hard-pressed to find that.

Especially a QB that could come back and win games because of this defense and our lack of urgency in the 1st halves.

Maybe Mahomes, Allen, couple of others...but not many and most of the QBs you would need are top mobile QBs. The only guy that might be able to pull it off is now a Jags backup QB. Maybe if you got Gardner but otherwise no.

The poster claimed Pete had never done it.

I simply refuted it because he has

I’m still waiting for the proof that he has.

 

[Hawkpower]

I once thought that too. But if you go back you notice a number of great throws under pressure Wilson made to keep key drives alive.

Still, does it matter?

Likely a number of other QBs could win with the LOB and that DL/LB group. We don't have D that now though.

Can any other QB win with Carroll's system, with his gameplanning, and this roster?

You would be hard-pressed to find that.

Especially a QB that could come back and win games because of this defense and our lack of urgency in the 1st halves.

Maybe Mahomes, Allen, couple of others...but not many and most of the QBs you would need are top mobile QBs. The only guy that might be able to pull it off is now a Jags backup QB. Maybe if you got Gardner but otherwise no.

The poster claimed Pete had never done it.

I simply refuted it because he has

I’m still waiting for the proof that he has.

I gave you the proof

You can choose to disagree if you would like

Cheers :irishdrinkers:

 

[Rat]

Since Russell Wilson will retire a Seahawk in 10 years, the question is more along the lines of how long will Russ be a Seahawk after PC leaves?

LOL 10 years :laugh: :laugh:

God, I hope not. We have about four seasons before he's late 2020 Roethlisberger.

 

[oldhawkfan]

I once thought that too. But if you go back you notice a number of great throws under pressure Wilson made to keep key drives alive.

Still, does it matter?

Likely a number of other QBs could win with the LOB and that DL/LB group. We don't have D that now though.

Can any other QB win with Carroll's system, with his gameplanning, and this roster?

You would be hard-pressed to find that.

Especially a QB that could come back and win games because of this defense and our lack of urgency in the 1st halves.

Maybe Mahomes, Allen, couple of others...but not many and most of the QBs you would need are top mobile QBs. The only guy that might be able to pull it off is now a Jags backup QB. Maybe if you got Gardner but otherwise no.

The poster claimed Pete had never done it.

I simply refuted it because he has

I’m still waiting for the proof that he has.

I gave you the proof

You can choose to disagree if you would like

Cheers :irishdrinkers:

I said he never did it before he had Russell Wilson at QB. You have given no proof of any PC success without him.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Is the question a complaint?

No.

But if we are losing Wilson, which seems likely, it certainly makes sense to come to a realization on reasonable expectations.

It appears the consensus is that Carroll cannot succeed without Wilson, and likely will not.

So what is the timeline?

Based on most of the projections, which seem reasonable, we would expect the Seahawks to reset (with the departure of Carroll) in 3 years. One of those 3 will likely be with Wilson. 2 without, and probably less pleasant.

We then load back up on draft picks and hopefully continue to be a competitive team with a new coach after a moderate to worse dip during the tail end of the Carroll period.

If we have to endure this, looking at where the light at the end of the tunnel is... feels reasonable.

Hence the question, how long is Carroll here after Wilson leaves? (which is very likely at the end of this season)

A consensus of whom? A group of fans on a forum that might make up 10% of the fanbase? I keep coming back to all of these other FO/Coach combinations that everyone lusts after and apparently know how to win in today's NFL, but for some reason have yet actually WIN in todays NFL at the rate that Seattle still wins in today's NFL.

 

[Hawkpower]

The poster claimed Pete had never done it.

I simply refuted it because he has

I’m still waiting for the proof that he has.

I gave you the proof

You can choose to disagree if you would like

Cheers :irishdrinkers:

I said he never did it before he had Russell Wilson at QB. You have given no proof of any PC success without him.

Actually, you said he never did it with a "decent but not great QB"

We now know Russ is more than this, but (as I have said 3 times now) the limited role he played in the Super Bowl year could have been easily replicated by a decent but not great QB because the rest of the team was SO GOOD.

A Kirk Cousins/Ryan Tannehill type absolutely gets Pete and the hawks a Super Bowl that year.

Russ did not play the role of a great QB that year. Not because he couldnt, but because he wasnt asked to be

 

[Hawkpower]

Is the question a complaint?

No.

But if we are losing Wilson, which seems likely, it certainly makes sense to come to a realization on reasonable expectations.

It appears the consensus is that Carroll cannot succeed without Wilson, and likely will not.

So what is the timeline?

Based on most of the projections, which seem reasonable, we would expect the Seahawks to reset (with the departure of Carroll) in 3 years. One of those 3 will likely be with Wilson. 2 without, and probably less pleasant.

We then load back up on draft picks and hopefully continue to be a competitive team with a new coach after a moderate to worse dip during the tail end of the Carroll period.

If we have to endure this, looking at where the light at the end of the tunnel is... feels reasonable.

Hence the question, how long is Carroll here after Wilson leaves? (which is very likely at the end of this season)

A consensus of whom? A group of fans on a forum that might make up 10% of the fanbase? I keep coming back to all of these other FO/Coach combinations that everyone lusts after and apparently know how to win in today's NFL, but for some reason have yet actually WIN in todays NFL at the rate that Seattle still wins in today's NFL.

Great point.

Twisted and others will then lament the lack of playoff success, but then pine after guys that have similar if not worse playoff records

This is not to excuse or pacify first round losses...we all want more than what we've seen recently, its just to offer some much needed perspective that we all lose from time to time

 

[pittpnthrs]

Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB.

Honestly, I dont think it can. Especially at this point. Lets not forget how many times Russ has had to dip into his magic hat and become the hero in the 4th quarters. Merely decent QBs arent getting that done.

I do feel that Wilson skips next season. The two reasons the Chicago deal didnt go down this season is the cap hit (less next year) and Carroll doesnt have a plan for a QB right now. What Chicago offered was enough and a deal like that will fly next season as Pete readies himself with some options.

I'm not sure Wilson's production was elite in our Super Bowl year

He was good, no doubt.

But that team was not built around him

So your expecting Pete to form another historic defense and to obtain a RB of Lynch's caliber along the way? Is that your expectations? When exactly is this going to start? Pete doesnt have those things now and is never going to get them again, thus great QB play has been the only thing keeping this team afloat.

 

[Hawkpower]

Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB.

Honestly, I dont think it can. Especially at this point. Lets not forget how many times Russ has had to dip into his magic hat and become the hero in the 4th quarters. Merely decent QBs arent getting that done.

I do feel that Wilson skips next season. The two reasons the Chicago deal didnt go down this season is the cap hit (less next year) and Carroll doesnt have a plan for a QB right now. What Chicago offered was enough and a deal like that will fly next season as Pete readies himself with some options.

I'm not sure Wilson's production was elite in our Super Bowl year

He was good, no doubt.

But that team was not built around him

So your expecting Pete to form another historic defense and to obtain a RB of Lynch's caliber along the way? Is that your expectations? When exactly is this going to start? Pete doesnt have those things now and is never going to get them again, thus great QB play has been the only thing keeping this team afloat.

No, I'm not expecting that. I was simply responding to point made about QB play.

Besides, if we are defining "Pete's System" as an elite defense and a Lynch caliber RB, we wouldnt be able to do that with a QB making 30 million plus.

The Seahawks/Pete made a choice to build around RW instead, so that's where they are now. Better or worse.

 

[TwistedHusky]

There was a thread on here from 2017 that was back on the front page recently.

It was pretty clear then what was happening. But so many seemed so sure Pete would work his magic again.

There was no magic. It went down exactly as we feared with a few different wrinkles.

The issues then, became the issues later, that cause the issues today.

Pete has a team rife with HOF players, one of which is the QB we are in danger of losing.

We are probably going to circle back to this thread in a few years, and everything that was clear and evident now will have transpired (roughly).

Pete isn't getting another team rife with HOF players.

And he cannot even win that well with what is one of the better rosters over the past 10 years (according to that chart). Certainly not in the playoffs.

Wishful thinking does not work. He is over 70. He isn't changing.

Because Pete rarely changes, neither does the outcome. Sorry.

It's Ok. I've come to terms with the ride being over.

Was pissed off that Pete would choose himself over the future of this club, but the damage is pretty much done. Quality FAs are going to avoid this place. We are playing out the string. Wilson wants to win in the playoffs and he wants to be in the MVP conversations at the end of the year. Neither will ever happen under Pete and Wilson probably knows this more than us. If is clear to the casual fan, it is clear to someone with a lifetime of football under their belt.

It seems tremendously unlikely that Pete lasts more than 2 years without Wilson. And it would take an incredible run in the playoffs to keep him here. Possible but unlikely. We will see.

But I suspect, just like that 2017 thread - some of the same voices pointing out the problems then, will probably end up looking correct again. Which sucks but appears to how it goes right now.

 

[Hawkpower]

There was a thread on here from 2017 that was back on the front page recently.

It was pretty clear then what was happening. But so many seemed so sure Pete would work his magic again.

There was no magic. It went down exactly as we feared with a few different wrinkles.

The issues then, became the issues later, that cause the issues today.

Pete has a team rife with HOF players, one of which is the QB we are in danger of losing.

We are probably going to circle back to this thread in a few years, and everything that was clear and evident now will have transpired (roughly).

Pete isn't getting another team rife with HOF players.

And he cannot even win that well with what is one of the better rosters over the past 10 years (according to that chart). Certainly not in the playoffs.

Wishful thinking does not work. He is over 70. He isn't changing.

Because Pete rarely changes, neither does the outcome. Sorry.

It's Ok. I've come to terms with the ride being over.

Was pissed off that Pete would choose himself over the future of this club, but the damage is pretty much done. Quality FAs are going to avoid this place. We are playing out the string. Wilson wants to win in the playoffs and he wants to be in the MVP conversations at the end of the year. Neither will ever happen under Pete and Wilson probably knows this more than us. If is clear to the casual fan, it is clear to someone with a lifetime of football under their belt.

It seems tremendously unlikely that Pete lasts more than 2 years without Wilson. And it would take an incredible run in the playoffs to keep him here. Possible but unlikely. We will see.

But I suspect, just like that 2017 thread - some of the same voices pointing out the problems then, will probably end up looking correct again. Which sucks but appears to how it goes right now.

Someone could also spin it that when Pete's teams center around defense and a bruising running game, they win in the playoffs

Pete's teams that have centered around an expensive QB still win 10-12 games a year, but havent fared so well in the playoffs

Probably too simple an argument, but no more simplistic than the one you continue to make on a daily basis

Both Pete and Russ have shown to be great in some areas. Both have significant flaws.

Its not either or. They both get credit and blame.

 

[xray]

If no post season or an early outage in post season again , they are both gone at the same time . IMO

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

One for Russ, and 2-3 years for Pete if we get another playoff season.

If we miss playoffs, I think Russ is gone in 2022 and PC/JS will then try bringing in a bridge QB while making a draft offer on one in mid-round.

 

[oldhawkfan]

One for Russ, and 2-3 years for Pete if we get another playoff season.

If we miss playoffs, I think Russ is gone in 2022 and PC/JS will then try bringing in a bridge QB while making a draft offer on one in mid-round.

If Pete is planning to coach in his 80s this might be the plan. What part of franchise QBs don’t grow on trees is so difficult for people to understand? Look at the teams across the league that have been trying to find a franchise QB for years and in some cases decades. In the 23 years since John Elway retired, the Broncos have had one other franchise level QB and that was Peyton Manning on his last legs. It could be a long time before they find another. I’m not ready to step back into that kind of fandom where year in and year out you hope the QB can at least be serviceable. Been there done that. I love the fact that my favorite team doesn’t have to worry about who the QB is and relish that every single game he has the ability to bring them a win if they are behind. I haven’t felt like they were out of maybe a handful of games total since Russell has been the Seahawks QB.

 

[pittpnthrs]

The Seahawks/Pete made a choice to build around RW instead, so that's where they are now. Better or worse.

I see you dont understand that the LOB and Lynch combination was a once in a lifetime deal. Carroll had the inside scoop on the college classes coming out the first few seasons he was here. That is why a lot of swings were a homerun on some of the later picks. Unfortunately, he no longer has that inside knowledge, but he still swings for the fences. That equates to passing on obvious talent and taking unnecessary chances (aka Pete being cute). Its no wonder the defense went from one of the best to mediocre at best.

Bottom line that you are missing - Pete had no choice but to build around Wilson because he is incapable of building a great defense anymore, let alone with the addition of a great RB. Without RW, this team would have been a 4 to 6 win team the past 5 or so years.