I am sick of Luke Willson

[MizzouHawkGal]

Guys, Moeaki is a legit #1 TE. Give him an off-season to get the intricacies of the offense down and maybe we need to draft a mid-rounder for depth. Since this is about Willson, I will give my opinion (for what it's worth.) There is a reason that he was the #2 TE at Rice...catching the ball consistently at that position is pretty damn important.

I wouldn't want to have Moeaki as my primary TE because he is an injury waiting to happen. Talent wise he is a #1 TE but durability wise he can't be trusted. With that said I hope they do all they can to keep him.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Willson was 2/4 (50% catch rate) for 32 yards. However, I highly doubt this would be a thread if he had two more drops but caught a 40 yard TD. In fact, there would likely be a thread in the positive spectrum about him for sure.

3/7 (43% catch rate) for 72 yards, TD.

Has it really come to this? I mean, I know we've got no game this week, but are we really speculating about made up stat lines?

Until Willson improves his catching ability I'm going to remain unconvinced he can be our #2 TE for the foreseeable future. At 6,5, he should be able to offer that mismatch/go-to/bail you out guy, but Willson's unreliable when he's wide open let alone when he's being covered.

Still, it can take receivers a while to 'catch on', and Luke's also learning how to block, hopefully he'll prove me wrong.

That's the hypoethical point though.

Its like this place feeds on having a whipping boy and tends to focus on the negative aspects of players instead of taking the good with the bad.

Look at Bruce Irvin as a prime example, look how long it took for him to be appreciated and some people here still dog on the guy.

As a 5th round project Luke Willson is exactly who he's supposed to be, he's was a raw player drafted for his athletic superiority.

Is he a starting material TE? No...

That guy is supposed to be Zach Miller.

Is it Willson's fault that he was thrusted to being the top guy? I don't think so.

And you could tell early on that he was uncomfortable being that guy... it wasn't until Moeaki showed up where Luke kind of settled down because he didn't have to be the "guy".

Not every back up can step up and play legendary football... there is a reason why Luke was the 2nd TE at Rice, there is a reason he was a 5th round pick, and its a high probability that if the Seahawks don't draft him he ends up being a UDFA/7th rounder.

And like Tokadub said... Jermaine Kearse has been worst at catching passes but the .Net lynching mob aren't at his doorstep every game.

I'm up for you guys criticizing players, that is your right as a fan, just as its my right to appreciate every contribution of every player on this team, no matter how little or inconsistent it is.

These guys are out on the battlefield for us, these are the guys giving their blood, sweat, and body up trying to give us fans the product we think we deserve... but why play that card... what we deserve? Like we are entitled with something?

Every player on this team is awesome. This team is young, and giving everything they got to be the best they can be, I'm not going to be the fan that sits here behind a computer critique performance of every player that has a bad game especially when that player is a young, raw player who is expected to go through growing pains.

I starting to believe that being the best team in the NFL here means that every player needs to be a Pro-Bowler or they suck.

 

[SnoCoHawk]

Wow, fan-player loyalty in here is a lot like how people approach relationships in general. There 's the "No one's perfect, give it time, remember that one good thing that happened? Focus on that" camp, and then there's the "You've been given multiple chances to fix it and you haven't, now get out" crew. I admit I'm of the latter persuasion, but I admire you glass-half-full people. Just don't hand your glass to Willson because he'll drop it.

 

[Jville]

I'm beginning to detect an arrogance and sense of entitlement bleeding our community.

Not a good development.

It gets in the way.

 

[LawlessHawk]

What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some .Netters you just can't reach. So you get what we had here in this thread, which is the way they wants it. Well, they gets it. I don't like it any more than you men.

 

[Ozzy]

Wow, fan-player loyalty in here is a lot like how people approach relationships in general. There 's the "No one's perfect, give it time, remember that one good thing that happened? Focus on that" camp, and then there's the "You've been given multiple chances to fix it and you haven't, now get out" crew. I admit I'm of the latter persuasion, but I admire you glass-half-full people. Just don't hand your glass to Willson because he'll drop it.

This is a great post. Nice finish as well. :thirishdrinkers:

 

[SomersetHawk]

That's the hypoethical point though.

Its like this place feeds on having a whipping boy and tends to focus on the negative aspects of players instead of taking the good with the bad.

Look at Bruce Irvin as a prime example, look how long it took for him to be appreciated and some people here still dog on the guy.

As a 5th round project Luke Willson is exactly who he's supposed to be, he's was a raw player drafted for his athletic superiority.

Is he a starting material TE? No...

That guy is supposed to be Zach Miller.

Is it Willson's fault that he was thrusted to being the top guy? I don't think so.

And you could tell early on that he was uncomfortable being that guy... it wasn't until Moeaki showed up where Luke kind of settled down because he didn't have to be the "guy".

Not every back up can step up and play legendary football... there is a reason why Luke was the 2nd TE at Rice, there is a reason he was a 5th round pick, and its a high probability that if the Seahawks don't draft him he ends up being a UDFA/7th rounder.

And like Tokadub said... Jermaine Kearse has been worst at catching passes but the .Net lynching mob aren't at his doorstep every game.

I'm up for you guys criticizing players, that is your right as a fan, just as its my right to appreciate every contribution of every player on this team, no matter how little or inconsistent it is.

These guys are out on the battlefield for us, these are the guys giving their blood, sweat, and body up trying to give us fans the product we think we deserve... but why play that card... what we deserve? Like we are entitled with something?

Every player on this team is awesome. This team is young, and giving everything they got to be the best they can be, I'm not going to be the fan that sits here behind a computer critique performance of every player that has a bad game especially when that player is a young, raw player who is expected to go through growing pains.

I starting to believe that being the best team in the NFL here means that every player needs to be a Pro-Bowler or they suck.

I'm just giving my opinion on the guy, certainly not whipping him. And just because he was drafted in the 5th round shouldn't render him free from criticism.

I've also handed out some criticism over Kearse, though as with Willson I've always tried to give relatively thoughtful reasoning in doing so. This lynch-mob talk is nauseous hyperbole.

At the end of the day this is a Seahawks' discussion board, we're here to discuss the Seahawks'. It would seem that some would have the purpose of discussion solely on praise, and whilst there's plenty of cause for that this board wouldn't be anywhere near as good without the more 'critical' analysis.

On topic- My opinions certainly don't reflect the initial sentiment of this thread, I am just yet to be convinced that Luke Willson can be what some on here believe he will. I have given my reasoning and as with my opinion any counter-arguments are at this point hypothetical, I just wish they could be voiced without the whiff of superiority that I'm sensing.

 

[Jville]

Just in case others didn't get to see the picture of the ball hitting Luke in the facemask. He will learn from it. He knows you gotta try to make every single catch no matter how fast it's coming or how difficult it is. You don't expect him to be Odell Beckham but if it's catchable, catch it.

Just to add to and elaborate a bit here ..... there is a difference between a lighter quicker wide out getting his head around and hands extended and that of a stouter stiffer tight end. We are going to see the ball get inside the hands and into the body of tight ends more often than is the case with wide receivers. Those of us who were around to watch Anthony McCoy, before his back to back season ending injuries, remember seeing the same thing with Anthony from time to time. It's useful to remember that Quarterbacks become accustom to each receiver over time and make adjustments.

With regards to contested catches, long arms and strong hands make a difference. That is why there is still interest in Anthony McCoy's 34 inch arms. And although McCoys's speed may not be that impressive, Luke Willson's demonstrated 4.51 has proven very useful.

The point is .... focusing on perceived limitations and unfortunate outcomes is not the Seahawk way ..... that is owned by other communities. I think it a mistake to throw out grades and judgements as an expression of fan disappoint. The Seahawk focus is on identifying what individuals are really good at and putting them in position to grow and succeed. For this fan, being a Seahawk fan is about understanding and enjoying that agenda over a series of seasons. And, to celebrate those great moments of success.

I sincerely believe some don't understand the program. That continues to be their loss.

 

[Largent80]

You are sick of Luke Willson and he is sick of you.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

That's the hypoethical point though.

Its like this place feeds on having a whipping boy and tends to focus on the negative aspects of players instead of taking the good with the bad.

Look at Bruce Irvin as a prime example, look how long it took for him to be appreciated and some people here still dog on the guy.

As a 5th round project Luke Willson is exactly who he's supposed to be, he's was a raw player drafted for his athletic superiority.

Is he a starting material TE? No...

That guy is supposed to be Zach Miller.

Is it Willson's fault that he was thrusted to being the top guy? I don't think so.

And you could tell early on that he was uncomfortable being that guy... it wasn't until Moeaki showed up where Luke kind of settled down because he didn't have to be the "guy".

Not every back up can step up and play legendary football... there is a reason why Luke was the 2nd TE at Rice, there is a reason he was a 5th round pick, and its a high probability that if the Seahawks don't draft him he ends up being a UDFA/7th rounder.

And like Tokadub said... Jermaine Kearse has been worst at catching passes but the .Net lynching mob aren't at his doorstep every game.

I'm up for you guys criticizing players, that is your right as a fan, just as its my right to appreciate every contribution of every player on this team, no matter how little or inconsistent it is.

These guys are out on the battlefield for us, these are the guys giving their blood, sweat, and body up trying to give us fans the product we think we deserve... but why play that card... what we deserve? Like we are entitled with something?

Every player on this team is awesome. This team is young, and giving everything they got to be the best they can be, I'm not going to be the fan that sits here behind a computer critique performance of every player that has a bad game especially when that player is a young, raw player who is expected to go through growing pains.

I starting to believe that being the best team in the NFL here means that every player needs to be a Pro-Bowler or they suck.

I'm just giving my opinion on the guy, certainly not whipping him. And just because he was drafted in the 5th round shouldn't render him free from criticism.

I've also handed out some criticism over Kearse, though as with Willson I've always tried to give relatively thoughtful reasoning in doing so. This lynch-mob talk is nauseous hyperbole.

At the end of the day this is a Seahawks' discussion board, we're here to discuss the Seahawks'. It would seem that some would have the purpose of discussion solely on praise, and whilst there's plenty of cause for that this board wouldn't be anywhere near as good without the more 'critical' analysis.

On topic- My opinions certainly don't reflect the initial sentiment of this thread, I am just yet to be convinced that Luke Willson can be what some on here believe he will. I have given my reasoning and as with my opinion any counter-arguments are at this point hypothetical, I just wish they could be voiced without the whiff of superiority that I'm sensing.

Nah, its cool... I respect your opinion. Its your right to have an opinion... I wasn't trying to push an agenda.

But in my original post is that the way this offense runs... every mistake is just magnified... because of how little opportunity these guys get in targets. More or less a WR in this offense is forced to be clutch. If this w s any other high volume passing offense in the league these guys would be getting double to triple the opportunity to make plays.

All I was saying there is a very thin line from being a zero and a hero. And my hypothetical was that if Luke Willson had dropped two more passes but caught a 40+ yard TD pass... there wouldn't be a 3 page conversation on him.

In my 2nd post, its cool to critique and what not, and it wasn't aimed at your opinion directly but you quoted me and I was talking in a more general sense. But my general point was yeah its cool to critique a player but when people start trashing on a guy for whatever reasons (not you per say) I just can't sit there and be cool about it.

My fandom is pretty much all blind faith with a little logic and reasoning here and there. I just can't stand fans trashing on players, especially young, raw players with expected growing pains.

I can understand if its a one of your highest paid players not living up to his contract.

I can understand if its a veteran not playing up to par with his ability.

I can understand if a player is a malcontent and locker-room cancer.

But when its young developing players, who are raw, I'm not going to bring the pitchfork and torches out every time he makes a mistake... I think its totally unfair... and its possible people just have glorified expectations and just want a dominant player at every position or something.

And to the guy who said he doesn't understand some fans loyalty to players... its not even that... I'm a fan and support the Seattle Seahawks... so in my fandom I try to appreciate all contributions by every player no matter how little it is... they play for my favorite team... are they untouchable from critique... no they are not... but at the same time when people are dogging and trashing on players past critique it tends to grind my gears a little bit... especially players who are relatively young or raw.

 

[Uncle Si]

My wife who just started watching football december 2013 had given LW the nickname "butterfingers" early in the season. Yesterday was just another example of why he has more then earned that name from our fanbase regardless of how long they have watched the sport. Quickest way out of this league regardless of your talent is dropped balls. He clearly has an issue catching the football.

Another example of a fan that never played the actual sport.

how many NFL games have you been in?

if its more than zero, than i can see your point. if not, his is just as valid, no?

anyways, awful lot of negativity for a rookie...

 

[theincrediblesok]

In the end we are all Seahawks fan. I like Luke and hope he brings it during the playoffs. I think every players/coaches has been criticized this year and yet here we are with a home field advantage. They know they can be better. We haven't seen the best of the offense yet.

 

[Seanhawk]

My wife who just started watching football december 2013 had given LW the nickname "butterfingers" early in the season. Yesterday was just another example of why he has more then earned that name from our fanbase regardless of how long they have watched the sport. Quickest way out of this league regardless of your talent is dropped balls. He clearly has an issue catching the football.

Another example of a fan that never played the actual sport.

how many NFL games have you been in?

if its more than zero, than i can see your point. if not, his is just as valid, no?

anyways, awful lot of negativity for a rookie...

Not a rookie.

 

[hawkfan68]

Folks who are saying Luke Willson is a rookie (while this is his 2nd year) are providing further proof that he's playing like a rookie. Paul Richardson and Kevin Norwood, who are rookies, don't seem to have a drop problem when a ball hits them in the hands....Luke Willson and Jermaine Kearse seem to have a problem with balls that hit their hands. Maybe they need some stick um.

Signed,
Lester Hayes

 

[Jville]

Folks who are saying Luke Willson is a rookie (while this is his 2nd year) are providing further proof that he's playing like a rookie. Paul Richardson and Kevin Norwood, who are rookies, don't seem to have a drop problem when a ball hits them in the hands....Luke Willson and Jermaine Kearse seem to have a problem with balls that hit their hands. Maybe they need some stick um.

Signed,
Lester Hayes

No ..... that is not what they are saying.

 

[Rob12]

I'm beginning to detect an arrogance and sense of entitlement bleeding our community.

Not a good development.

It gets in the way.

Many of us are definitely spoiled.

I've said it before but perhaps it got lost in all of this:

I like Luke as a player. He's young and has a ton of time to improve. I posted this thread while at the Clink. It was a heat of the moment post that I regret. The Seahawks looked like garbage on offense and I believe the drop that caused this post was on a third down that would have resulted in a first down inside the red zone. It's not easy to take that kindly on a day when a win secures the No. 1 seed and we're failing to score points.

I've long ago stepped back and admitted my blunder. I wish this thread could just die now. I'm glad Luke is a Hawk, though I hope he improves his pass catching skills.

 

[CANHawk]

He needs to crank a jugs machine up to level 10 and have somebody fire fastballs at his face until he can catch them on the regular.

He's almost there, but russell's a little too much man for him right now...

 

[Bigbadhawk]

I really enjoy Luke as a TE and I believe he will make a fine #2 TE in our system. I would love to see a replacement for Zach at the top TE spot at some point, its just unfortunate this year we lost Zach and Anthony so early. I cant explain why his catch completion rate is down 16.4% compared to last year and his drops is up to 4 this year from 1 last year. If I had to take a guess its psychological/mental from being asked to do more this year after the other TEs on the depth chart were lost for the season.

Moeaki I am sure he could become a number 1 TE in our system once he had enough time to fully acclimate here. I am just as concerned if he could make it through a full season as I am with Okung and Unger now. As for now Moeaki and Willson are pretty comparable numbers wise (I would give Moeaki a very slight nod over Willson currently but Footballoutsiders.com gives the slight edge to Willson by 0.3 DVOA).

 

[Uncle Si]

My wife who just started watching football december 2013 had given LW the nickname "butterfingers" early in the season. Yesterday was just another example of why he has more then earned that name from our fanbase regardless of how long they have watched the sport. Quickest way out of this league regardless of your talent is dropped balls. He clearly has an issue catching the football.

Another example of a fan that never played the actual sport.

how many NFL games have you been in?

if its more than zero, than i can see your point. if not, his is just as valid, no?

anyways, awful lot of negativity for a rookie...

Not a rookie.

awful lot of negativity for a guy with 30 targets his first year?

 

[Bigbadhawk]

Tied for 44th in the league with 9 others for having a dropped pass % rate of 10%. In the end he did a better job overall number wise then Vernon Davis for what its worth.