Is Mahomes Even Elite?

olyfan63

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What a hoot, after all the "Is Wilson even Elite" threads, one about Mahomes.

Not only that, their issues seem to be very parallel, struggles in reading 2-High coverages and trying to force the ball deep.

Anyone remember the game in 2018, the gunslinger showdown of Wilson vs. Mahomes on Monday night? Wilson outplayed Mahomes that night and Seattle won, 38-31. It was an awesome game.

In hindsight, I have had to agree that Wilson's deficiencies were covered up by the 2013-14 Seahawks historically great Defense, LOB and all that, and a bullying running game with Beastmode that teams had to respect. Those Seahawks had crap pass protection for Russell, but those O-Lines had beefy bruisers in the run game. In SB48 Seattle started 2 rookies, Bowie and Bailey, on the O-Line. Russell's mobility and escapability saved his ass, along with his uncanny deep ball ability.

Russell and Mahomes both have "SuperPowers", which are really quite similar. They both have holes in their game, again, quite similar in what the holes are, their "kryptonite".

I think it's fair to suggest that both of these Superhero QBs need lead shields from their teams to protect them against teams that have kryptonite--strong pass rush, good DBs and DC with skills in running confuse-the-QB coverage schemes. Overall, Mahomes has the advantage, with his height, his size and ability to shrug off would-be sacks, and Andy Reid as his head coach.

The other key parallel is that both QBs won their Super Bowls on their rookie contract, i.e., the team could afford a few more talented players on the roster, and those talented players were difference-makers when it really counted. Cliff Avril? Frank Clark for the Chiefs?

Beyond that, both QBs will unquestionably be elite if they can improve their reads and quick throw game, while keeping their other SuperPowers. Was Peyton Manning "elite" in the Broncos 43-8 SB48 loss? Hell no. He had no deep ball, and Seattle knew it and played accordingly. Was Kurt Warner "elite" in his Rams and Cardinals Super Bowl appearances? I'd have to say YES, but in between those seasons, Warner struggled with throwing hand injuries and was NOT elite, and was cut by multiple teams. Was Russell Wilson "elite" in SB48? No, but he didn't need to be.

NFL defenses seem to now have a better "book" on how to frustrate Mahomes. It will be fascinating to see if and how Mahomes (and his coaches) address this, going forward. In the meantime, he's sure been a lot of fun to watch.

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Maelstrom787

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Huh, maybe I jinxed it. Looked like Russell in that second half.

Perhaps neither are elite. Fair.
 
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Fade

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Maelstrom787":cbf32o4e said:
Huh, maybe I jinxed it. Looked like Russell in that second half.

Perhaps neither are elite. Fair.

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I'm still amazed Mahomes continuously throws the ball to the other team with all day to throw, but the defenders keep dropping it. Mahomes has lead the league in that stat for 3 seasons running.

Wilson would die and go to heaven having the consistent time to throw Mahomes had today. Wilson's O-Line is like Burrow's.

Burrow is the truth.
 

PateratoWilson

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Maelstrom787":35t0qezz said:
Huh, maybe I jinxed it. Looked like Russell in that second half.

Perhaps neither are elite. Fair.

At least you owned it… others would blame others.

Second half was odd for sure.
 

Maelstrom787

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PateratoWilson":iwhs1lty said:
Maelstrom787":iwhs1lty said:
Huh, maybe I jinxed it. Looked like Russell in that second half.

Perhaps neither are elite. Fair.

At least you owned it… others would blame others.

Second half was odd for sure.

I like calling out my own cold takes more than others cold takes. We're all idiots.
 

PateratoWilson

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Maelstrom787":m825pydl said:
PateratoWilson":m825pydl said:
Maelstrom787":m825pydl said:
Huh, maybe I jinxed it. Looked like Russell in that second half.

Perhaps neither are elite. Fair.

At least you owned it… others would blame others.

Second half was odd for sure.

I like calling out my own cold takes more than others cold takes. We're all idiots.


Fair enough. Some of us just know it. My uncle denied a lot of this kind of stuff.. we used to slap the snot out of him.
 

James in PA

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He really did remind me so much of Russ late in that game. He is Russ with more elusiveness and more zip on the ball. Advantage Russ on the deep ball.


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Mizak

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Internet saying hes more on par with Aaron Rodgers. Sure he went to the Super Bowl 2 times and won one. But hes been to 4 straight AFC Championship games(Chiefs hosted those games) and hes at .500 with a record at 2-2. What’s Rodgers record on NFC Championship games? Something along 1-5?
 

SoulfishHawk

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Mahomes is obviously Elite. But yesterday? Absolutely not.
As far as Lord Rodgers goes, he's 1-4 in Championship Games, and is 7-9 in the playoffs since 2010.
But hey.......MVP and Stats matter more I guess :roll:
 

Somos doces

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SoulfishHawk":nl0qqbxu said:
Mahomes is obviously Elite. But yesterday? Absolutely not.
As far as Lord Rodgers goes, he's 1-4 in Championship Games, and is 7-9 in the playoffs since 2010.
But hey.......MVP and Stats matter more I guess :roll:
So what does "elite" even mean? Mahomes, Rodgers, and (unfortunately) Wilson now have growing track records of shrinking in playoff games, so why should we consider any of them "elite"? Because they're good in the regular season?

To me, if we're basing the definition of "elite" on a QB's playoff success, there is only one: Brady. Everyone else currently in the league is in a lower tier.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Wrong, but that's fine. It's all a matter of opinion. Mahomes is phenomenal. He's just not a god like everyone in the media makes him out to be. Same goes for Rodgers. And yes, Russ needs to play a lot better in the playoffs.
And honestly, why does it matter what word people use to describe a guy? Great, elite, top tier etc. Who cares? You're either a great QB or you're not.
 

SoulfishHawk

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Who already has a ring, 4 straight trips to the AFC Championship, and 2 trips to the Super Bowl. And he's 26.
No, he's not a choker. His team choked, he was part of it.
And here's an idea, giving credit to the opponent. Cincy had a LOT to do with it.
 

SoulfishHawk

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again, another "fan" ignoring the FACT that the Defense gave up a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter. All these years later ^
 

IndyHawk

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SoulfishHawk":vaxokzds said:
again, another "fan" ignoring the FACT that the Defense gave up a 10 point lead in the 4th quarter. All these years later ^
This fan doesn't ignore the fact that the offense had Zero points in the
fourth and lost the TOP for the game even though they had 162 yrds rushing..
Yeah blame the defense that was riddled with injuries..
Oh another stat..The Hawks were 3/10 on third down..That is on the D
too?A lot to put on them but :twocents:
 
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