Key thing Waldron said!!

[Appyhawk]

I think Maelstrom has this pretty well pegged. As for the turnover thing, any coach or player that doesn't react with adjustments to 10 turnovers in 4 games is not doing his job.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Head coaches are meant to have at least some control over the direction of the team. They'd be useless otherwise. Expecting Pete to have no input over the offense isn't just unrealistic, but probably bad.

We can talk about what has become known as "Pete's" meddling until the cows come home, but Pete started issuing orders once the wheels started falling off, not after. If the offense becomes successful this year, it isn't because Pete got out of the way, it's because Pete made the right decision to terminate the last guy and bring in a new crew with a very different way of doing things.

If he wanted a yes man, he woulda hired one. Just saying.

Sounded like a yes man to me that was optimistic, very much a Wilson type interview, the Technical difficulty breaks at strategic moments tells me this.

I will wait and see for final judgement, but if we have a series of late play call in's at critical times and weird time outs inside the ten then I am going to start looking at Pete again wanting to play it safe. Or if we are pulling away in the 2nd quarter and then go 3 and out series after series till we are within 7 of each other and try to flip the switch on again.

We both know that literally any perceived imperfection in the offense will immediately be blamed on Pete, regardless of circumstance. People like confirming their priors more than they like being correct.

If Pete wanted a yes man, he wouldn't have hired an offensive coordinator who runs a completely different rushing scheme, a completely different pass philosophy and scheme, and ALSO let the guy bring in his own run game coordinator. There is literally no logical path from Waldron to "yes man."

Pete brought him in to run a different offense that still aligns with his overall philosophy - balance, limited turnovers, and keeping the offense on time. Those overall traits are what Pete values, and I suspect that although Waldron arrives there differently, he won't have to slap his hands like he did when Schotty's Kitchen started baking turnovers left and right. Waldron brings a contemporary way to successfully achieve balance, effective rushing, and limited turnovers.

Also, you guys are reaching a lil with the technical difficulties conspiracy theories already. Whew.

You say “literally” but probably meant “figuratively “. Since there are countless imperfections in every game, it would be extremely difficult to blame Pete for all of them and using the word “literally” excludes all other possibilities. Another example of using the terms incorrectly is “I will literally break my foot off in your azz”. The speaker most likely does not intend to sacrifice his own foot and leave it inserted in another persons rectum, so figuratively would be the correct word if you felt the need to use one of them. Probably better to not use either though.

Yeeeeah fair enough, its a filler word that I use far too often.

 

[John63]

We had an offense built around Russell Wilson for the first few weeks of the season with Schottenheimer, but Pete changed that really quickly.

The problem here is going to be Pete. He needs to let Shane Waldron do his McVay thing. I love this hire, but if he's interfere with like Schottenheimer was we'll be playing the same story.

The hopeful thing is McVay's offense uses a really creative running game. Pete needs to let Waldron do McVay things such as spread the field out, so we can run in a box that is not stacked. As much as I hate the Rams, what McVay has done for Goff and that offense is pretty amazing. I hope Shane Waldron is allowed to do that.

Pete also really needs to let Waldron change up the tempo of the offense. The default 1 one second and snap is horrible for many reasons. You're giving the defense a free jump off the line. They can pull a Michael Bennett with impunity. That is one thing that made him great, is timing of the snap. Well, you're giving all of the DLINE and blitzing players a free head start with always sticking with that same tempo. Not anything you can do at the LOS either. It's been this way from Bates all the way to Schottenheimer.

Nope ^ DK said "Defenses started figuring us out" MEANING, figuring out Schottenheimer, :17: and his "same old, same old" schemes, and then when the RB's got hurt, he ran out of ingenuity, and everything ended up being a free-for-all...It played right into the opposing Defenses game-scripts. :rumble:
One would think by listening to some of the blokes here on .NET, that Pete dislikes, or maybe even hates Russell Wilson. :177692:

Much of the playbook was Pete's, not Schottenheimer's. When we hired Schottenheimer, Pete said that 80 percent of the playbook was going to stay as his. Another thing to consider is early in the season we used a lot of short passing concepts that looked straight out of Mike Holmgren's playbook. Wilson got picked on a pass over the middle, and all of the sudden they disappeared from the playbook. That isn't Schottenheimer's doing, guaranteed. The offense early in the season looked drastically different than it did towards the second half of the season.

Furthermore we've been running this style of offense since 2011. I've seen these exact same plays, and play calling tendencies over three coordinators. It's one of the reasons why we have been so dreadful in the first half of the games during Pete's tenure. We also have to consider Wilson's part in this. He had shorter routes open that he refused to take. I lay this squarely at Pete's on shoulders. Why couldn't we beat the cover 2 when we ran an offense earlier in the year that would have dismantled a cover 2 defense?

What was worse on th epick over the middle was it was right off the receivers hands!

 

[MesquiteHawk]

You say “literally” but probably meant “figuratively “. Since there are countless imperfections in every game, it would be extremely difficult to blame Pete for all of them and using the word “literally” excludes all other possibilities. Another example of using the terms incorrectly is “I will literally break my foot off in your azz”. The speaker most likely does not intend to sacrifice his own foot and leave it inserted in another persons rect**, so figuratively would be the correct word if you felt the need to use one of them. Probably better to not use either though.

Yeeeeah fair enough, its a filler word that I use far too often.

I know what you meant. I am just one of those a-holes that point stuff out when there is no need.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Based on last year, the biggest thing Waldron can bring to us imo is hopefully the ability to adjust. There have been all kinds of theories on why the offence fell off the 2nd half of the season, but the one common one seems to be differences figured out how to play our O and there was no adjustment. That and predictability. Do we need a better example of that than the ugliest play in that playoff game? There was absolutely zero doubt in the corner's mind that it was a screen pass to Metcalf.

If Waldron has to ability to see what defences are doing and then change things up, we will be ahead of the game from last year by far.

 

[IndyHawk]

Head coaches are meant to have at least some control over the direction of the team. They'd be useless otherwise. Expecting Pete to have no input over the offense isn't just unrealistic, but probably bad.

We can talk about what has become known as "Pete's" meddling until the cows come home, but Pete started issuing orders once the wheels started falling off, not after. If the offense becomes successful this year, it isn't because Pete got out of the way, it's because Pete made the right decision to terminate the last guy and bring in a new crew with a very different way of doing things.

If he wanted a yes man, he woulda hired one. Just saying.

Count me in this camp. Pete put the clamdown on the offense because Russ became a turnover machine, and the offense needed to slow it down to help the D. The narative of Pete being this massive megalomaniac is way overblown IMO.

Yes after the bye it was a different RW with 10 to's in 3 games..People refuse to believe,see or
understand he is limited and more so without his crazy speedy wheels.
I think if anything Pete knows this and tries to protect him best he can...I'm not saying Russ
can't operate better under the new OC because I certainly want him to but he has to work
on the weak parts of his game to elevate himself and the offense to a higher level.
I'm not going to go on and on..I just hope he changes some parts of his game for the better.

 

[John63]

Head coaches are meant to have at least some control over the direction of the team. They'd be useless otherwise. Expecting Pete to have no input over the offense isn't just unrealistic, but probably bad.

We can talk about what has become known as "Pete's" meddling until the cows come home, but Pete started issuing orders once the wheels started falling off, not after. If the offense becomes successful this year, it isn't because Pete got out of the way, it's because Pete made the right decision to terminate the last guy and bring in a new crew with a very different way of doing things.

If he wanted a yes man, he woulda hired one. Just saying.

Count me in this camp. Pete put the clamdown on the offense because Russ became a turnover machine, and the offense needed to slow it down to help the D. The narative of Pete being this massive megalomaniac is way overblown IMO.

Yes after the bye it was a different RW with 10 to's in 3 games..People refuse to believe,see or
understand he is limited and more so without his crazy speedy wheels.
I think if anything Pete knows this and tries to protect him best he can...I'm not saying Russ
can't operate better under the new OC because I certainly want him to but he has to work
on the weak parts of his game to elevate himself and the offense to a higher level.
I'm not going to go on and on..I just hope he changes some parts of his game for the better.

Ahh point of note every QB is limited no QB can do it all not even the Almighty Mahomes. The problem with you or anyone saying he is limited is you can't point to something he can't or has not done. That said lets remember 4 of those TOs can off passes that bounced off the receivers hands. Let's also remember our defensed still sacked and that put even more pressure on the offense. I find it interesting you allude to putting it all on Wilson no mention of the top 5 27 drops, or anyone of the number of other things that has been issues. Wilson has shown he can do anything any Qb can do. The question we should be asking is why did the OC not adjust when he saw they were taking away his game plan?

 

[Own The West]

The question we should be asking is why did the OC not adjust when he saw they were taking away his game plan?

That is the question everyone has been asking. And why we have a new OC now.

 

[John63]

The question we should be asking is why did the OC not adjust when he saw they were taking away his game plan?

That is the question everyone has been asking. And why we have a new OC now.

LOl I agree

 

[WarHawks]

Like most everyone here, I'm cautiously very optimistic about this hire. However, if we see another year of Russ starting hot and then falling off a cliff again, it will then be time to start having serious discussions about his future with the Hawks. I'm not blaming him, but pretending he doesn't have any culpability isn't reasonable either.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Head coaches are meant to have at least some control over the direction of the team. They'd be useless otherwise. Expecting Pete to have no input over the offense isn't just unrealistic, but probably bad.

We can talk about what has become known as "Pete's" meddling until the cows come home, but Pete started issuing orders once the wheels started falling off, not after. If the offense becomes successful this year, it isn't because Pete got out of the way, it's because Pete made the right decision to terminate the last guy and bring in a new crew with a very different way of doing things.

If he wanted a yes man, he woulda hired one. Just saying.

Count me in this camp. Pete put the clamdown on the offense because Russ became a turnover machine, and the offense needed to slow it down to help the D. The narative of Pete being this massive megalomaniac is way overblown IMO.

Yes after the bye it was a different RW with 10 to's in 3 games..People refuse to believe,see or
understand he is limited and more so without his crazy speedy wheels.
I think if anything Pete knows this and tries to protect him best he can...I'm not saying Russ
can't operate better under the new OC because I certainly want him to but he has to work
on the weak parts of his game to elevate himself and the offense to a higher level.
I'm not going to go on and on..I just hope he changes some parts of his game for the better.

Ahh point of note every QB is limited no QB can do it all not even the Almighty Mahomes. The problem with you or anyone saying he is limited is you can't point to something he can't or has not done. That said lets remember 4 of those TOs can off passes that bounced off the receivers hands. Let's also remember our defensed still sacked and that put even more pressure on the offense. I find it interesting you allude to putting it all on Wilson no mention of the top 5 27 drops, or anyone of the number of other things that has been issues. Wilson has shown he can do anything any Qb can do. The question we should be asking is why did the OC not adjust when he saw they were taking away his game plan?

Well said. I was going to comment on the people saying russ is limited, but you did it. Good job.

 

[hawk45]

The question we should be asking is why did the OC not adjust when he saw they were taking away his game plan?

That is the question everyone has been asking. And why we have a new OC now.

Well yeah if you ignore the scheming of open receivers over the middle that Wilson stared down there were no adjustments

 

[John63]

The question we should be asking is why did the OC not adjust when he saw they were taking away his game plan?

That is the question everyone has been asking. And why we have a new OC now.

Well yeah if you ignore the scheming of open receivers over the middle that Wilson stared down there were no adjustments

If ignore the fact they were not open when it was their turn in the progression or that they were not at the needwd.doqn and distance the if u want to say he adjusted then his adjusents sucked

 

[Tinamedina]

Where was all this "Russell wilson is limited" talk the past 7 years whens had to bail out Pete Carroll in the 4th quarter for Pete terrible play calling?


1 more thing, I dont car show many TO's the QB has you dont take the ball out of his hands! Period! You adjust. And no pete Carroll fans, adjusting does not mean run ball like its 1994, it means pass the ball DIFFERENTLY. Taking the ball out Russell's hands told the world how pete Carroll REALLY feels about Russell Wilson. Pete Carroll doesn't respect Russell Wilson. And if pete Carroll blows up shane waldron offensive plan this season, it will confirm what I already thought.

 

[xray]

When I see Carroll on the sidelines without a headset and at least 20 feet away from Waldron I might be convinced he will keep his hands off the offense . I'm not going to hold my breath though .

 

[FresnoHawk52]

USC & Seattle have been my favorite teams since the 80’s. Pete was a blessing to both organizations! Pete is a great coach & you will struggle to find one better look at USC. Seattle was far from perfect this year and the coaches & team still put RW in situations to get the best record in the NFC but RW choked. Pete did make a huuuge mistake playing injured players in the playoffs = Iupati, Adams, & Carson. Pete should have started the back ups.

That screen pass to DK that got intercepted proves Rams knew Russ was going to throw it and why did Schotty have a rookie blocking for that screen pass in the playoffs. Also the Defense underestimated RB Akers which is frustrating because us fans knew Akers has juice.

They should have been defending the run in Seattle’s normal 4-3 set verse the Bear set which has the SAM on the line. The good news is everything is fixable if RW Fixes his issues.

 

[John63]

USC & Seattle have been my favorite teams since the 80’s. Pete was a blessing to both organizations! Pete is a great coach & you will struggle to find one better look at USC. Seattle was far from perfect this year and the coaches & team still put RW in situations to get the best record in the NFC but RW choked. Pete did make a huuuge mistake playing injured players in the playoffs = Iupati, Adams, & Carson. Pete should have started the back ups.

That screen pass to DK that got intercepted proves Rams knew Russ was going to throw it and why did Schotty have a rookie blocking for that screen pass in the playoffs. Also the Defense underestimated RB Akers which is frustrating because us fans knew Akers has juice.

They should have been defending the run in Seattle’s normal 4-3 set verse the Bear set which has the SAM on the line. The good news is everything is fixable if RW Fixes his issues.

And if PC learns to stay out of the offense, which is one of the biggest problems

 

[John63]

Where was all this "Russell wilson is limited" talk the past 7 years whens had to bail out Pete Carroll in the 4th quarter for Pete terrible play calling?


1 more thing, I dont car show many TO's the QB has you dont take the ball out of his hands! Period! You adjust. And no pete Carroll fans, adjusting does not mean run ball like its 1994, it means pass the ball DIFFERENTLY. Taking the ball out Russell's hands told the world how pete Carroll REALLY feels about Russell Wilson. Pete Carroll doesn't respect Russell Wilson. And if pete Carroll blows up shane waldron offensive plan this season, it will confirm what I already thought.

Especially when 4 of them were off drops by the recievers.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Head coaches are meant to have at least some control over the direction of the team. They'd be useless otherwise. Expecting Pete to have no input over the offense isn't just unrealistic, but probably bad.

We can talk about what has become known as "Pete's" meddling until the cows come home, but Pete started issuing orders once the wheels started falling off, not after. If the offense becomes successful this year, it isn't because Pete got out of the way, it's because Pete made the right decision to terminate the last guy and bring in a new crew with a very different way of doing things.

If he wanted a yes man, he woulda hired one. Just saying.

Sounded like a yes man to me that was optimistic, very much a Wilson type interview, the Technical difficulty breaks at strategic moments tells me this.

I will wait and see for final judgement, but if we have a series of late play call in's at critical times and weird time outs inside the ten then I am going to start looking at Pete again wanting to play it safe. Or if we are pulling away in the 2nd quarter and then go 3 and out series after series till we are within 7 of each other and try to flip the switch on again.

We both know that literally any perceived imperfection in the offense will immediately be blamed on Pete, regardless of circumstance. People like confirming their priors more than they like being correct.

If Pete wanted a yes man, he wouldn't have hired an offensive coordinator who runs a completely different rushing scheme, a completely different pass philosophy and scheme, and ALSO let the guy bring in his own run game coordinator. There is literally no logical path from Waldron to "yes man."

Pete brought him in to run a different offense that still aligns with his overall philosophy - balance, limited turnovers, and keeping the offense on time. Those overall traits are what Pete values, and I suspect that although Waldron arrives there differently, he won't have to slap his hands like he did when Schotty's Kitchen started baking turnovers left and right. Waldron brings a contemporary way to successfully achieve balance, effective rushing, and limited turnovers.

Also, you guys are reaching a lil with the technical difficulties conspiracy theories already. Whew.

People will never stop passing off other, internet people's speculation as fact or proof as long as the internet exists. The year 2020 has driven that point home very succinctly. There is zero actual evidence that Pete puts clamps on anything offensively. If a head coach sees his offense regress into a turnover machine and does nothing hoping it self corrects, he's being grossly negligent. He's also probably looking at finding a new job sooner rather than later. This entire Pete thing boils down to "I'd want to watch the type of offense I like more than watching my football team win". That's all it is. Every other argument backing that up is used to confirm that opinion they know is irrational. Look at how excited people were about the configuration of the team in the first 7 games. High flying offense, disastrous defense. That team had no chance of going deep in the playoffs, but everyone's highlight-meme craving was sufficiently satiated.

That's all fans care about anymore. "I want my team to make national headlines and be talked about on every Monday sports talk show". "Any thing else is gravy". After all, we know that the most popular players are the one's that tick the high draft pick box in fantasy football. Just think how much trash you can talk to your buddies when you can win your fantasy football league with a bunch of players from your favorite team!