Metcalf Calls Out Carroll

[Elemas]

Pete runs this. He has the final say. If you think Russ sabotaged Schotty or Schotty had any control over this, I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[BASF]

Pete runs this. He has the final say. If you think Russ sabotaged Schotty or Schotty had any control over this, I don’t know what to tell you.

Which is funny, because I have been thinking that some members of this board talk about this football team like it is a telenovela.

 

[Elemas]

all we are doing is proving either we are Wilson lovers, Wilson haters, or making crap up to stir the pot.

This board does seem to have taken on a Twilight: Team Edward vs Team Jacob vibe and it is very sad to see people I once had the utmost respect for who only post now about how Pete Carroll is holding the team back. All of them seem to believe that Wilson had no hand in the offensive struggles when all you have to do is look at the All-22 and you see that Wilson was not taking what he was given the second half of the season. This does not by any means absolve Pete of trying to rein in what Wilson was doing. Some of the interceptions he threw were fantastic plays by the defensive player. However, some of them were bad decisions with him throwing into ridiculous coverage when he could have taken other open receivers or run for first downs, which is probably what Carroll said behind closed doors.

I agree with you here. Russ was definitely not playing up to his potential. But, we know PC has ultimate authority. If Goff is playing that bad, McVay benches him. From what I’ve seen and understood, Pete directed the offense to change, likely had a large part in playcalling or took over the calls. Somehow, maybe due to Schottys inability to adjust to two high safeties (who knows??), we fell apart on offense. Season ends...Schotty gets fired.

All I’m saying is that Pete makes the final decisions. When you captain the ship, are CEO of a company, or your the Base Commander in the military, or are the head coach of a football team and something goes haywire, it’s ultimately your responsibility.

 

[hawk45]

So I remember the last niner game being one where the narrative was about the OC calling only long pass plays. I went back and watched the 2 sacks in that game (small sample size, but worth seeing what went wrong when a sack is completed by the opposition).

7:22 left in the 2nd quarter. 3rd and 8. Wilson has about 2 seconds to get the ball out and then gets engulfed. Bad OL? OC calls all deep routes? Nope. There’s a Lockett crosser but it’s covered up so not Russ there. However San Francisco shows a pre snap read of bringing the house. They bring six (I’m pretty certain? Small phone I’m rewatching on, at least 5). Someone, Russ, WR, should have adjusted to hot. I feel pretty solid assigning at least partial blame to the 35 million dollar QB.

:25 left in the second quarter. 1st and 15. Russ is sacked immediately. OL? All deep routes? Nope and this one is atrocious by Wilson. Dontae Johnson is showing corner blitz on Wilson’s right side. Because Johnson is coming, locketts crosser is WIDE open and probably picks up all 15. This is all 100% obvious from the pre snap read. Wilson does not get it out quickly to Lockett. Wilson is caught completely unprepared by the corner shooting in like a missile and covers up for the sack. OL had no chance at all because the QB inexplicably ignores a corner blitz like it was 2012 and he still had the athleticism to avoid a free rusher. This is a trend with Wilson, ignoring the corner blitz, and I throw things every time I see a corner on the LOS.

I won’t take these two plays and say they prove Wilson is to blame for every sack of the year. But as I said, I remember the narrative in real time was damn that OC and damn that OL and we definitely see there are quite reasonable things Wilson can be doing to help out his OL that he demonstrably did not do, resulting in the only two sacks. OL doing its job just fine.

Wilson was the 2nd most blitzed QB behind cam Newton as of nov 18 (article I found). Wilson handled the blitz well in 2019. I can’t find the analysis for 2020 yet but this approach neutralized our passing offense largely in the second half of the season so it’s something teams do not fear us beating, or beating to great effect. Makes sense: force Wilson to get the ball out quickly, something he struggles with.

This is not the picture of a horrid OL. Yes the rams owned us in the trenches that’s the rams. Teams respect our OL and disrespect Wilson’s blitz reactions enough to send extra men at a high rate. Even if some analysis comes out that Wilson was okay vs the blitz, the overall limiting of our passing offense is why teams would not and did not stop blitzing. We can not dink and dunk period why would they change.

Ultimately Pete was right this year: we should have run more. Light boxes. Quit trying to get Wilson to be comfortable over the short middle. This would be viewed as Pete’s imagination limiting russels production but that’s not what it is.

 

[John63]

So I remember the last niner game being one where the narrative was about the OC calling only long pass plays. I went back and watched the 2 sacks in that game (small sample size, but worth seeing what went wrong when a sack is completed by the opposition).

7:22 left in the 2nd quarter. 3rd and 8. Wilson has about 2 seconds to get the ball out and then gets engulfed. Bad OL? OC calls all deep routes? Nope. There’s a Lockett crosser but it’s covered up so not Russ there. However San Francisco shows a pre snap read of bringing the house. They bring six (I’m pretty certain? Small phone I’m rewatching on, at least 5). Someone, Russ, WR, should have adjusted to hot. I feel pretty solid assigning at least partial blame to the 35 million dollar QB.

:25 left in the second quarter. 1st and 15. Russ is sacked immediately. OL? All deep routes? Nope and this one is atrocious by Wilson. Dontae Johnson is showing corner blitz on Wilson’s right side. Because Johnson is coming, locketts crosser is WIDE open and probably picks up all 15. This is all 100% obvious from the pre snap read. Wilson does not get it out quickly to Lockett. Wilson is caught completely unprepared by the corner shooting in like a missile and covers up for the sack. OL had no chance at all because the QB inexplicably ignores a corner blitz like it was 2012 and he still had the athleticism to avoid a free rusher. This is a trend with Wilson, ignoring the corner blitz, and I throw things every time I see a corner on the LOS.

I won’t take these two plays and say they prove Wilson is to blame for every sack of the year. But as I said, I remember the narrative in real time was damn that OC and damn that OL and we definitely see there are quite reasonable things Wilson can be doing to help out his OL that he demonstrably did not do, resulting in the only two sacks. OL doing its job just fine.

Wilson was the 2nd most blitzed QB behind cam Newton as of nov 18 (article I found). Wilson handled the blitz well in 2019. I can’t find the analysis for 2020 yet but this approach neutralized our passing offense largely in the second half of the season so it’s something teams do not fear us beating, or beating to great effect. Makes sense: force Wilson to get the ball out quickly, something he struggles with.

This is not the picture of a horrid OL. Yes the rams owned us in the trenches that’s the rams. Teams respect our OL and disrespect Wilson’s blitz reactions enough to send extra men at a high rate. Even if some analysis comes out that Wilson was okay vs the blitz, the overall limiting of our passing offense is why teams would not and did not stop blitzing. We can not dink and dunk period why would they change.

Ultimately Pete was right this year: we should have run more. Light boxes. Quit trying to get Wilson to be comfortable over the short middle. This would be viewed as Pete’s imagination limiting russels production but that’s not what it is.

Hmm so a qb engulfed in w seconds or less is not a oline issue? Even an avg line should give 2.5. Plus how do u know Wilson did not call or say something and the oline just missed the call? U see tape is easy to lay blame. You have no real clue what went on. Footballoutsiders takes ibto account sacks were the qb is yo blame. We were 26th in pass blocking. Not good at all. Do I think some sacks are on Wilson yes. Do I think more than 10% no. Also great someone was open, but were they open at their turn in progression. Did he have a throwing lane etc etc. You know the things every qb needs.

But since if we go by your analysis it appears Wilson is the problem trade him. I mean Brees and Rodgers are way better they have won way more SBs..oh wait they have not. But they have won way more games than Wilson since 2012...oh wait they have not. Hmm wow for a guy that is the problem he sure wins a lot and is in the top 5 alot. Oh well hr is the problem get rid of him I am sure any qb with PC can have a winning season every year, go to the playoffs almost every year, etc etc. Trade him. After all he is the problem.

 

[Scorpion05]

Coincidence that it was Brandon Marshall doing the interview? The same guy who said there is trouble brewing in Seattle? This is 100% Wilson calling out Pete through DK. The power struggle between Pete and RW is real, and I think there is a real possibility that 2021-22 is RW's last year in Seattle. What a shame.

Of course you have no proof this is Wilson speaking through DK, Maybe its Lockett, Maybe it's the whole offense, maybe it's the whole team or maybe its just DK.

I do agree something will change, how soon not sure.

Of course there is no proof but if he was that goes to what I have said.
Be the MAN and LEAD..Speak up and heard!
Don't be a sneaky behind the back spinless turd.

A spineless turd? Oh, okay. This is how far we’re going on this board. But moderators have an issue with Wilson defenders. Interesting.

By the way, just over a week ago when Wilson said he wanted to be involved in the OC search, he was criticized for speaking up and trying to dictate terms. Now, he’s a spineless turd for not speaking up. What are you going to imply Wilson is next? Garbage? Or something more derogatory

 

[Scorpion05]

2) literally only Pete Carroll defenders are saying it’s RW fault

This is funny. There are a lot of people in the media who are pointing out that Wilson is not taking his check downs. It isn't some secret that the Seahawks have the third and fourth reads that are not being thrown to. There are plenty of videos out there pointing it out. It does not make them Pete Carroll defenders. It makes them people who study film and do not believe that behind closed doors, Carroll is telling Wilson not to throw to third and fourth receivers if they are in the short or intermediate routes.

Show me the “media people” that are saying the offensive problems of the Seahawks are due primarily to RW.

My guess is you can’t, you’re just taking whatever flaws in RWs game as pointed out by the media and taking it to whatever conclusion you want.

Don’t worry, Pete’s gonna run it more. All our problems are solved. Just relax till next season and prepare your kudos to Pete for another wonderful season of barely scraping by garbage teams and getting killed by good ones all the way to a wildcard and massacre in the playoffs. Yay

Your adversarial posting is not appreciated.

Your hyperbole that the problems are due primarily to Wilson is not appreciated.

Here are the links that you can take a look at where the people are pointing out exactly what I have been talking about:

[youtube]Cnarei9FgGo[/youtube]

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/whats-wrong-with-seahawks-qb-russell-wilson

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/new...accountable-for-seahawks-second-half-meltdown

There was a segment on NFL Network last week regarding Wilson not taking the plays that are there, but I can not find the video right now.

You said there are a lot of people in the media. You posted two links.

Chris Simms, John Gilbert, and others have placed more blame on the scheme, than Wilson. I also think it’s funny you posted a video by Samuel Gold, and not his follow up video criticizing the Air Coryell offense and why it dictates Wilson’s reads. So basically, you’re claiming to be an objective person but you’re unwilling to weigh both sides of the debate.

 

[BASF]

You said there are a lot of people in the media. You posted two links.

Chris Simms, John Gilbert, and others have placed more blame on the scheme, than Wilson. I also think it’s funny you posted a video by Samuel Gold, and not his follow up video criticizing the Air Coryell offense and why it dictates Wilson’s reads. So basically, you’re claiming to be an objective person but you’re unwilling to weigh both sides of the debate.

How exactly have I not weighed both sides of the debate? From what I have seen, there is no debate on this board now. There are several posters that only post about Pete being the one at fault and do not post anything else.

There are several posters here who do nothing but defend Wilson from any criticism whatsoever.

It seems as though there are only four or five posters here that actually look at the All-22 and point out things you can not see on the broadcasts.

In other threads, I have agreed with the fact that Pete has absolutely tried to cut down on the mistakes that have been made by Wilson. His interceptions cost us home field advantage. I have no problem stating that Pete tried to pull Wilson back from costing the team games. Anyone who has a question about that, does not pay attention.

I have never claimed to be an objective person. I have never claimed to be anything. I have only pointed out with video evidence that Wilson was not throwing to open receivers in the second half of the season. That has gotten me a few immature responses to say the least.

In regards to links, I can't post videos from Top Billin' on the main forum due to language, but he has done film on Wilson not throwing to open receivers.

Here is Rodney Harrison's take:
[youtube]kWzt7uHKhlU[/youtube]

 

[John63]

You said there are a lot of people in the media. You posted two links.

Chris Simms, John Gilbert, and others have placed more blame on the scheme, than Wilson. I also think it’s funny you posted a video by Samuel Gold, and not his follow up video criticizing the Air Coryell offense and why it dictates Wilson’s reads. So basically, you’re claiming to be an objective person but you’re unwilling to weigh both sides of the debate.

How exactly have I not weighed both sides of the debate? From what I have seen, there is no debate on this board now. There are several posters that only post about Pete being the one at fault and do not post anything else.

There are several posters here who do nothing but defend Wilson from any criticism whatsoever.

It seems as though there are only four or five posters here that actually look at the All-22 and point out things you can not see on the broadcasts.

In other threads, I have agreed with the fact that Pete has absolutely tried to cut down on the mistakes that have been made by Wilson. His interceptions cost us home field advantage. I have no problem stating that Pete tried to pull Wilson back from costing the team games. Anyone who has a question about that, does not pay attention.

I have never claimed to be an objective person. I have never claimed to be anything. I have only pointed out with video evidence that Wilson was not throwing to open receivers in the second half of the season. That has gotten me a few immature responses to say the least.

In regards to links, I can't post videos from Top Billin' on the main forum due to language, but he has done film on Wilson not throwing to open receivers.

Here is Rodney Harrison's take:
[youtube]kWzt7uHKhlU[/youtube]

Okay since you claim Wilson never throws to open Wrs or not enough., Please show me how every QB out there always hits the Wide open wr. Also, again we need to know the down and distance, the progression, and if there is a throwing window. Without that your posts as well as these so called experts mean nothing, and again for every one you show saying he does not throw people open or misses wide open Wrs there are 5 saying the opposite. Everyone has an opinion for these so-called experts its about clicks so whatever they think will get the clicks is what the posted even if it's not true. Also it is impossible for a Qb to have the numbers he has year in and year out missing wr all the time, or even most of the time,e not throwing people open etc etc. the FACTS just don't support the claim. FYI I can show and in fact in some of your so caller evidence Wilson throwing to wide open guy. The problem again is you do not show the progression, when they got open, down ad distance etc. Example in one of your videos there is someone open, at about 5 yards with 2 defenders with in 3 yards, its 3rd and 15 so throwing to that person does nothing, we are bottom 3 in YAC. so throwing to 5 yards when you need 15 would eb a bad throw. Huard did a bit on KJR where he said that very often fans are seeing people open, but they are open after Wilson has had to move on in the progression.

So again I am glad you show all these pictures and videos of wide open guys. However, again without down, distance, progression, throwing windows it means nothing.

Did you watch the Green Bay Tampa game? I did I watched both Rodgers and Brady miss wide open guys. They were even asked after about a few and the answer they were not open when I looked that them. amazing isn't it how progression matters. You have 2.5 seconds or less to look at 4+ receivers, if they are not open when you look at them you move on, if they are not at the right distance for the down you move on, if there is no throwing lane you move on. That's how the position is played.

Now that said do I think sometimes he looks past an open person looking for more...yes, but unlike you I know all QBs do that just look at the Gb and TB playoff game.


You see the problem you and others have is you place an unbelievable bar on Wilson, once that no QB in the league can meet, and even when he does you come up with some BS excuse why he did not. the only differenc eis at least you admit your are biased.

 

[xray]

remember when Carroll & Metcalf went shirtless together ? I can't unsee that .

 

[Fade]

When Carroll leaves, it is going to be a dark day here.

There is a distinct difference between being frustrated with Carroll when he repeatedly fails to take advantage of opportunities available with the resources he has....and simply not being happy with him or wanting him gone.

Wilson will be gone before Carroll is. And if, for whatever reason, Carroll calls it quits beforehand?

The chances we upgrade from Carroll are low. And the chances this team is better once he leaves become low too.

Metcalf is in for a rough ride, because this is not the best place for a WR. Carroll simply won't maximize the ability there.

And Wilson is always going to produce less than he could under a great offense.

But this is it. This is the ceiling. So hoping to hasten Carroll's departure is crazy.

He is old. His best days are behind him. And he is a net negative on gameday. But his ability to fill gaps in the roster simply cannot be overstated. Few coaches could make this roster work.

Yep. The Packers really went down hill when they moved on from their Super Bowl winning Head Coach Mike McCarthy.

It will be a dark day when Wilson is no longer here. The QB is the most valuable player in sports. Pete was a flop in the NFL until Wilson showed up.

BB missed the playoffs, while Brady is going back to the Super Bowl.

 

[John63]

When Carroll leaves, it is going to be a dark day here.

There is a distinct difference between being frustrated with Carroll when he repeatedly fails to take advantage of opportunities available with the resources he has....and simply not being happy with him or wanting him gone.

Wilson will be gone before Carroll is. And if, for whatever reason, Carroll calls it quits beforehand?

The chances we upgrade from Carroll are low. And the chances this team is better once he leaves become low too.

Metcalf is in for a rough ride, because this is not the best place for a WR. Carroll simply won't maximize the ability there.

And Wilson is always going to produce less than he could under a great offense.

But this is it. This is the ceiling. So hoping to hasten Carroll's departure is crazy.

He is old. His best days are behind him. And he is a net negative on gameday. But his ability to fill gaps in the roster simply cannot be overstated. Few coaches could make this roster work.

Yep. The Packers really went down hill when they moved on from their Super Bowl winning Head Coach Mike McCarthy.

It will be a dark day when Wilson is no longer here. The QB is the most valuable player in sports. Pete was a flop in the NFL until Wilson showed up.

BB missed the playoffs, while Brady is going back to the Super Bowl.

When it comes down to it a HOF/Franchise QB is more important than a HC.

 

[Maelstrom787]

When Carroll leaves, it is going to be a dark day here.

There is a distinct difference between being frustrated with Carroll when he repeatedly fails to take advantage of opportunities available with the resources he has....and simply not being happy with him or wanting him gone.

Wilson will be gone before Carroll is. And if, for whatever reason, Carroll calls it quits beforehand?

The chances we upgrade from Carroll are low. And the chances this team is better once he leaves become low too.

Metcalf is in for a rough ride, because this is not the best place for a WR. Carroll simply won't maximize the ability there.

And Wilson is always going to produce less than he could under a great offense.

But this is it. This is the ceiling. So hoping to hasten Carroll's departure is crazy.

He is old. His best days are behind him. And he is a net negative on gameday. But his ability to fill gaps in the roster simply cannot be overstated. Few coaches could make this roster work.

Yep. The Packers really went down hill when they moved on from their Super Bowl winning Head Coach Mike McCarthy.

It will be a dark day when Wilson is no longer here. The QB is the most valuable player in sports. Pete was a flop in the NFL until Wilson showed up.

BB missed the playoffs, while Brady is going back to the Super Bowl.

Let's not get disingenuous here with the shoddy comparisons. McCarthy was fired in the middle of his second straight losing season, not after 3 straight playoff appearances at 10-6, 11-5, and 12-4. TwistedHusky is no Carroll fanatic, and their post isn't justifying Carroll's employment with a Super Bowl win 7 years ago. It's simply stating that the team is quite likely to be worse if Carroll is fired, not better... which, historically, is a pretty solid assumption. Not sure how McCarthy bears any relevance to the topic, very different situations.

 

[John63]

When Carroll leaves, it is going to be a dark day here.

There is a distinct difference between being frustrated with Carroll when he repeatedly fails to take advantage of opportunities available with the resources he has....and simply not being happy with him or wanting him gone.

Wilson will be gone before Carroll is. And if, for whatever reason, Carroll calls it quits beforehand?

The chances we upgrade from Carroll are low. And the chances this team is better once he leaves become low too.

Metcalf is in for a rough ride, because this is not the best place for a WR. Carroll simply won't maximize the ability there.

And Wilson is always going to produce less than he could under a great offense.

But this is it. This is the ceiling. So hoping to hasten Carroll's departure is crazy.

He is old. His best days are behind him. And he is a net negative on gameday. But his ability to fill gaps in the roster simply cannot be overstated. Few coaches could make this roster work.

Yep. The Packers really went down hill when they moved on from their Super Bowl winning Head Coach Mike McCarthy.

It will be a dark day when Wilson is no longer here. The QB is the most valuable player in sports. Pete was a flop in the NFL until Wilson showed up.

BB missed the playoffs, while Brady is going back to the Super Bowl.

Let's not get disingenuous here with the shoddy comparisons. McCarthy was fired in the middle of his second straight losing season, not after 3 straight playoff appearances at 10-6, 11-5, and 12-4. TwistedHusky is no Carroll fanatic, and their post isn't justifying Carroll's employment with a Super Bowl win 7 years ago. It's simply stating that the team is quite likely to be worse if Carroll is fired, not better... which, historically, is a pretty solid assumption. Not sure how McCarthy bears any relevance to the topic, very different situations.

The way it was written implies its PC leaving that will cause the dark day, not that it was a dark day that caused him leaving.

 

[Maelstrom787]

When Carroll leaves, it is going to be a dark day here.

There is a distinct difference between being frustrated with Carroll when he repeatedly fails to take advantage of opportunities available with the resources he has....and simply not being happy with him or wanting him gone.

Wilson will be gone before Carroll is. And if, for whatever reason, Carroll calls it quits beforehand?

The chances we upgrade from Carroll are low. And the chances this team is better once he leaves become low too.

Metcalf is in for a rough ride, because this is not the best place for a WR. Carroll simply won't maximize the ability there.

And Wilson is always going to produce less than he could under a great offense.

But this is it. This is the ceiling. So hoping to hasten Carroll's departure is crazy.

He is old. His best days are behind him. And he is a net negative on gameday. But his ability to fill gaps in the roster simply cannot be overstated. Few coaches could make this roster work.

Yep. The Packers really went down hill when they moved on from their Super Bowl winning Head Coach Mike McCarthy.

It will be a dark day when Wilson is no longer here. The QB is the most valuable player in sports. Pete was a flop in the NFL until Wilson showed up.

BB missed the playoffs, while Brady is going back to the Super Bowl.

Let's not get disingenuous here with the shoddy comparisons. McCarthy was fired in the middle of his second straight losing season, not after 3 straight playoff appearances at 10-6, 11-5, and 12-4. TwistedHusky is no Carroll fanatic, and their post isn't justifying Carroll's employment with a Super Bowl win 7 years ago. It's simply stating that the team is quite likely to be worse if Carroll is fired, not better... which, historically, is a pretty solid assumption. Not sure how McCarthy bears any relevance to the topic, very different situations.

The way it was written implies its PC leaving that will cause the dark day, not that it was a dark day that caused him leaving.

Point is, nothing resembling said dark day has come yet. This isn't a McCarthy situation.

 

[Fade]

Point is, nothing resembling said dark day has come yet. This isn't a McCarthy situation.

The point is losing a HC is not what leads to a team's demise. It is the franchise QB, or lack of a replacement when losing said Franchise QB. You and your strawmen. :2thumbs:

The Packers and 49ers avoided it because they had Rodgers and Young as backups, they changed head coaches, they still continued their winning ways and won Superbowls without Walsh and Holmgren. Franchise QB > Head Coach. The end.

 

[hawker84]

So DK said what a lot of us on here have been saying for years. Teams figured the schemes out, and the coaching staff were incapable of making adjustments. Sounds about right...

 

[Fade]

So DK said what a lot of us on here have been saying for years. Teams figured the schemes out, and the coaching staff were incapable of making adjustments. Sounds about right...

Back to back years the same thing happened. They started out hot, teams got film, and they proceeded to go in the tank.

 

[John63]

So DK said what a lot of us on here have been saying for years. Teams figured the schemes out, and the coaching staff were incapable of making adjustments. Sounds about right...

Back to back years the same thing happened. They started out hot, teams got film, and they proceeded to go in the tank.

Bingo another Key Shotty saying 80% of the play book form th3e year before he got here would stay the same. ahh 80% of the play book the same as the year before. Yeah no way another team would not be able to figure us out. :sarcasm_off:

 

[hawk45]

The adjustment was to scheme the short middle but the QB won’t take that. This all over the film, and disproves the laughable tropes that Pete won’t allow MOF passes or that schotty didn’t adjust or called all go routes.

It might be possible for an OC to give Russell a look vs zone under that he will pull the trigger on but since height is part of the issue I predict success, if it comes at all, would be fleeting. Russ has good reason not to trust those short passes v zone: he sucks at them. He had an entire series against the rams where he tried it and WRs were open and almost every play could have been a pick. He’s also been baited with sim pressure earlier in the year to throwing a pick to an MLB so that exacerbates the hesitancy. Sim pressure in general can get any QB but pre snap diagnosis is not very strong for a guy who reportedly works so hard at film. Blitzing corners may as well be cloaked in invisibility for all the attention Wilson pays them.

The truth is Pete is quite right to favor play action shots and running. That’s where Russ is elite. Trying to make Russ the 40 drop back passer is where we fall down. He can’t be that passer because he can’t use a third of the field consistently. He doesn’t hit his back foot and let fly and rack up those easy completions like Tom Brady does (and has done across multiple OCs and multiple teams. Don’t tell me Bruce arians is some offensive savant).