Pete Carroll: Wasn't 'football people' who decided his fate

[seabowl]

Loved Pete but he’s probably told management the last few years he “knew how to fix it” and it progressively got worse. Jamal Adams was probably one of the fixes and so was Leonard Williams. Nothing against Williams however, for what they gave up for him he obviously wasn’t the missing peace as there are many missing pieces, including getting the right coaches in there.

 

[James in PA]

Just when I was starting to feel bad for calling so hard for his dismissal since the 2nd Rams game...

Coach, you had years and years to "fix" it. You had full control over everything. You went unchecked. Haven't sniffed a SB in 9 years. One playoff win in 6 years against a crappy Eagles team playing with a backup QB. One of the worst defenses in the league over and over that was actually regressing. It was time, Pete. You don't have to be a "football person" to see that.

 

[OLYhawks]

I think these comments were why he was let go. He's had multiple football seasons to fix these problems he's talking about, but he didn't. He's calling for perfection, yet our run defense(to just name one instance)was absolutely putrid! You stop the run game of Pittsburgh and win that game, I think Pete is still here. He's had his chances. Talking only gets you so far before your actions far out weigh what you say. How many seasons did he need to see this perfection he is speaking of!? This actually pisses me off now. GTFO Petey

 

[Maelstrom787]

Ah boy, this is gonna get ugly. And it's all going to prove his point, lol.

 

[James in PA]

I think Pete just got fired from his new advisor position.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Ah boy, this is gonna get ugly. And it's all going to prove his point, lol.

It already is. Sad part is, they don't even know they are doing it. Too busy thinking they have all the answers or even the right perspective to begin with.

 

[Dallashawksfan]

Pete had no idea.

Time for him to go. You don’t need football people to know that. Just watch the Seahawks played defense.

 

[ccla]

You think you put a Cash Flow statement in front of the CEO of almost any company and she/he is going to understand if the company is viable? Probably not, that is why there is a CFO under the CEO. However, when the debtors are coming to ask for their money and you do not have it, the CEO is going to fire the CFO!
Is Pete showing his real colors, just like always compete but only when it suits me?

 

[Weadoption]

since when are NFL owners ever football people? Jerry Jones thinks he is a football people owner, and his team is literally cursed because of it until he croaks.
Not a good look for Pete he’s screaming at clouds.

 

[James in PA]

Whether he wants to admit it or not, Pete got too complacent. He basically admitted it the other day when he said we lost our edge to be great. Now he's making passive aggressive comments like this. It's pretty disappointing.

 

[ccla]

Is Pete shoeing his real

You think you put a Cash Flow statement in front of the CEO of almost any company and she/he is going to understand if the company is viable? Probably not, that is why there is a CFO under the CEO. However, when the debtors are coming to ask for their money and you do not have it, the CEO is going to fire the CFO!
Is Pete showing his real colors, just like always compete but only when it suits me?

and if that does not happen, you know the board if firing both the CEO and the CFO!

 

[xray]

I'd like to know how much JS fought for PC . Did he have PCs back or not ? Does anybody know ? I don't .

 

[hoxrox]

Click bait type headline that apparently worked. Watch the KJR video on Youtube yourself before making assumptions.

 

[renofox]

The next paragraph is even more interesting:

"Every year it feels like that, that you're going to be challenged by opinions that are kind of media opinions, because what else do people have when you're outside of the game?" he said. "How could you know other than what you guys talk about on the radios and what the articles say and what the pundits are drawing conclusions on? That's why you have to go in realizing that that's what you're dealing with and then try to talk through to get to the essence of stuff. That's always going to be a challenge because when you don't have legitimate dyed-in-the-wool football people calling the shots, then you have to try to make sense of it, just like we try to make sense of it for your audience, it's no different."

He seems to be saying that "whoever made the decision" weren't doing a knowledgeable assessment.

The implication that I'm getting from all of this is that Schneider may not have been involved in the decision. Or at least Pete believes that to be the case. Which is consistent with his last press conference and the support he was giving JS but not consistent with the reports that the search for his replacement started a couple of months ago.

It's called rationalization. I'm pretty sure PC was let go because he was given warning to fix the Defense and he didn't do it. Very simple. He then delegitimizes (in his own head) those who fired him by complicating the argument and going into details exclusive to his area of competence to cloud the issue. They were wrong because they couldn't consider things outside their area of expertise. I tried to educate them but they couldn't understand it.

This is natural human behavior to protect one's self image. It's also very common when high achievers are let go.

In the end it's very simple. The boss wanted a thing and the employee didn't provide the thing. Employer's prerogative.

 

[mistaowen]

Couple things after listening:

1) NFL orgs that have an owner involved with personnel, scheme, football ops decisions generally are bad. Head coach and GM need to work in tandem without an owner looking over their shoulder besides year end metrics. To this point, Pete is correct.

2) There is a clear disconnect between Pete stating the team is close to a Super Bowl and what the data shows. Many, many executives nowadays are fully data driven. They aren't inputting a defensive plan and 11 AI players go out to execute it with precision and if I had to guess, some of the older coaches trust their gut more than what data says. The defense by all accounts was terrible and has been terrible. We don't know what happens behind closed doors and Pete has forgotten more about football than I could ever learn. But something was wrong. Pete didn't suddenly stop coaching how to tackle, how to do run fits, press and release technique for DB's. And I think him sticking with Clint Hurtt and some of the other positional coaches ultimately cost him the job. Because as a leader, Pete is Pete. He's the same guy he was 30 years ago but he was able to delegate to some very intelligent defensive staff early on. Ken Norton is one of the best LB coaches around and basically every person during the LOB said he's arguably the best coach they've ever played for. He just wasn't a great DC but was able to fix things by the end of the year. Since his promotion through the Hurtt era, you could just feel the defense slipping from Pete. We saw him looking shocked more so this season than I can ever recall as he watched his defense get repeatedly gashed by the same exact runs over and over. At a certain point, 'non football people' are going to ask, so what the hell is the problem?

3) This team had its worst point differential since 2010, actively regressed in multiple areas, looked like a JV team against good teams and struggled to beat bad ones. Whoever and whatever shoulders the blame for it, that's what this season was, and Pete is the CEO of the Seahawks. So unless he were to outright say coaches and players didn't hold up their end (which he never would), Jody points to him.

4) I know JS has been wanting to be the big dog for quite awhile and to keep him from leaving few years ago, they gave him an extension past Pete's. But I get the feeling he wasn't involved in Pete's dismissal and this 'football people' comment is for Vulcan and Jody.

5) I also think (purely speculative) JS and PC feel differently about the roster and some of the players they want to move forward with. Geno is Pete's guy, Jamal is Pete's guy, Bobby is Pete's guy, etc. Pete made it crystal clear this is John's turn now without Dad around, so the roster as is has been shaped by Pete. So retool vs rebuild could be one of those disagreement points Pete mentioned.

6) This is the closest Pete has ever been to not 'protecting' the team, so I'm quite sure we will not be seeing Pete upstairs for the Seahawks.

 

[Appyhawk]

Pete is just doing the same thing players that get cut do. He is reacting in a way that encourages him to cut all ties and convince himself he needs to go somewhere else where he can prove what he's really made to be. Mostly to himself. It's kind of a natural reaction.

 

[Ozzy]

Ah boy, this is gonna get ugly. And it's all going to prove his point, lol.

Meh I love Pete, he’s sort of right AND this is why it was the right move. I’m actually not a fan of Pete saying this and for me it cements the fact the team did the right thing. I’m not saying this is terrible or anything but it’s not a great look for Pete imo.

 

[renofox]

...I think him sticking with Clint Hurtt and some of the other positional coaches ultimately cost him the job.

This ^^^ plus the same thing with certain players.

PC made it clear in his final press conference that his primary loyalty was the players and coaches. This is a serious breach of ethics and leadership, IMO.

As the Seahawks most publicly recognized leader, primary loyalty should have been to the Seahawks organization. Loyalty to personnel should have been developed and executed within that overarching framework.

In politics, military, law enforcement, and many other professions you give a binding oath to that effect. In business there is no oath, but their is a code of ethics including fiduciary duty.

Want to know a secret why many great candidates never make it to the c-suite? Because they do not, through word and action, make it clear that they understand that they are working for the shareholders and are consistently making decisions and taking actions with that always in mind.

I'm not saying that all businesses are ethically managed. But those ethics exist and are paramount in many business organizations. PC broke the Golden Rule for that type of organization.

Almost all of the problems stem from that, including promoting and keeping personnel that should have been let go for the good of the Seahawks.

...this 'football people' comment is for Vulcan and Jody.

Yep. PC made it pretty clear he's no fan of the Seahawks executives or the Board. Especially Jody. Then again, Jody held him accountable and that is naturally a hard thing for most high achievers to deal with.

 

[Ozzy]

Couple things after listening:

1) NFL orgs that have an owner involved with personnel, scheme, football ops decisions generally are bad. Head coach and GM need to work in tandem without an owner looking over their shoulder besides year end metrics. To this point, Pete is correct.

2) There is a clear disconnect between Pete stating the team is close to a Super Bowl and what the data shows. Many, many executives nowadays are fully data driven. They aren't inputting a defensive plan and 11 AI players go out to execute it with precision and if I had to guess, some of the older coaches trust their gut more than what data says. The defense by all accounts was terrible and has been terrible. We don't know what happens behind closed doors and Pete has forgotten more about football than I could ever learn. But something was wrong. Pete didn't suddenly stop coaching how to tackle, how to do run fits, press and release technique for DB's. And I think him sticking with Clint Hurtt and some of the other positional coaches ultimately cost him the job. Because as a leader, Pete is Pete. He's the same guy he was 30 years ago but he was able to delegate to some very intelligent defensive staff early on. Ken Norton is one of the best LB coaches around and basically every person during the LOB said he's arguably the best coach they've ever played for. He just wasn't a great DC but was able to fix things by the end of the year. Since his promotion through the Hurtt era, you could just feel the defense slipping from Pete. We saw him looking shocked more so this season than I can ever recall as he watched his defense get repeatedly gashed by the same exact runs over and over. At a certain point, 'non football people' are going to ask, so what the hell is the problem?

3) This team had its worst point differential since 2010, actively regressed in multiple areas, looked like a JV team against good teams and struggled to beat bad ones. Whoever and whatever shoulders the blame for it, that's what this season was, and Pete is the CEO of the Seahawks. So unless he were to outright say coaches and players didn't hold up their end (which he never would), Jody points to him.

4) I know JS has been wanting to be the big dog for quite awhile and to keep him from leaving few years ago, they gave him an extension past Pete's. But I get the feeling he wasn't involved in Pete's dismissal and this 'football people' comment is for Vulcan and Jody.

5) I also think (purely speculative) JS and PC feel differently about the roster and some of the players they want to move forward with. Geno is Pete's guy, Jamal is Pete's guy, Bobby is Pete's guy, etc. Pete made it crystal clear this is John's turn now without Dad around, so the roster as is has been shaped by Pete. So retool vs rebuild could be one of those disagreement points Pete mentioned.

6) This is the closest Pete has ever been to not 'protecting' the team, so I'm quite sure we will not be seeing Pete upstairs for the Seahawks.

Great post! The only thing I sort of disagree with is John’s involvement. I think he was a part of that decision or he at least agreed with it and wanted this even though it was super hard for him because of his respect for Pete

 

[RiverDog]

I can identify with Pete's dilemma as the same problem emerges in nearly every business and activity in the real world. We've all been in the position of knowing more about a specific subject than our superiors, and vice versa. I've been in the position of knowing less...sometimes a lot less...about an activity people I supervise are engaging in.

An electronics tech had better do a damn good job of explaining his/her problem to me in terms that I can understand. It's part of their job, or at least that's the way I look at it. I don't want them keeping me in the dark and feeding me bullshit.

It wasn't football people who hired Pete in the first place. At that time, he was able to explain to them well enough, ie dumb it down, to the point where they hired him, so why can't he 'dumb it down' to those who were in the position of deciding his fate?

I can't have any sympathy for Pete in this particular situation.