Russell Wilson: Report says he wants to explore options with

[TwistedHusky]

Keasley,

There is a giant yawning gulf between Rex Grossman and Drew Brees.

Few ever said that Wilson does not have flaws. He doesn't have to be Brady or Brees to be worthwhile.

But the idea that we are better off, he is easily replaceable, or that this team can come close to being as effective without him - being forced to play with these rosters the Pete Carroll way?

No. That is laughable.


I get taking potshots at him may make it easier to let him go. And maybe he was gone regardless, that brand-building thing only goes so far in this corner of the US. So maybe this is a coping mechanism that people are using.

But to imply he could not be better or that we will do better? Hilarious.

This is all beyond our control and the result on betting on Carroll instead of Wilson. And maybe Wilson was gone regardless and it wasn't a choice anyway. But if it was? Then it was stupid.

And when Wilson leaves? The party ends, even though it has been kind of barely there for the past 3-4 years anyway.

Wilson has flaws. All QBs do. He is still THE primary reason we were winning. And unless we luck into a low-round gem at QB (unlikely), probably the last good QB here for a while - which means very few playoff opportunities past the point we lose him.

The Packers bet on Rodgers instead of McCarthy. That is why they are a SB favorite.

We bet on McCarthy instead of Rodgers.* (The funny thing is that McCarthy of today is actually a better coach than Carroll of today. That is why we probably are going to miss the playoffs for a while after we lose Wilson.)

*Not implying Wilson is as good a QB as Rodgers.

 

[ZagHawk]

Why do people keep downplaying this? This is a consistent problem now, not just clickbait crap. He’s sick of the system and style that is stunting him. The franchise chose Pete so Wilson wants to leave and quite frankly I don’t blame him.

I'm sure Wilson would crush it in a Air Raid system with Cliff Kingsbury. Kyler Murray crushed it against the Rams :sarcasm_off:

Yup in Pete we trust, he definitely has the Rams' number

:sarcasm_off:

 

[HawkOG70’]

He's asking to be traded without coming out and saying it. He wants out and we want him gone so that we can focus on winning. No need for drama from a 5-9' quarterback with zero mobility in his 30's. I'd rather have picks

 

[toffee]

He's asking to be traded without coming out and saying it. He wants out and we want him gone so that we can focus on winning. No need for drama from a 5-9' quarterback with zero mobility in his 30's. I'd rather have picks

Sorry, I have to disagree. Wilson may not have elite mobility at this stage of his career, but he is still mobile and far from zero mobility.

I do agree with you on the 'out' part. Wilson has been speaking from one corner of his mouth about wanting to stay, right after he said from the other corner of his mouth that he is exploring options elsewhere. But hey, it's working, we have playoff games going on but all the media talking heads were talking about Russell Wilson. Clever way to gain media attention, at the expense of team unity that is. This could be his modus operandi, and why his teammates had issues with him.

 

[John63]

He's asking to be traded without coming out and saying it. He wants out and we want him gone so that we can focus on winning. No need for drama from a 5-9' quarterback with zero mobility in his 30's. I'd rather have picks

Sorry, I have to disagree. Wilson may not have elite mobility at this stage of his career, but he is still mobile and far from zero mobility.

I do agree with you on the 'out' part. Wilson has been speaking from one corner of his mouth about wanting to stay, right after he said from the other corner of his mouth that he is exploring options elsewhere. But hey, it's working, we have playoff games going on but all the media talking heads were talking about Russell Wilson. Clever way to gain media attention, at the expense of team unity that is. This could be his modus operandi, and why his teammates had issues with him.

again read the article the exploring was only a response to if the Hawks are looking to trade him. Has it occurred that while the media has been spinning this as Wilson wants out, behind the scenes they are spinning it to Wilson that the Hawks want to trade him? especially give the false article that came out saying they wanted to but PC said no a the last second.

As to the mobility thing that is false just last year he had over 500 yards and most were on scrambles. This year he was hurt for a large part of the year but still had almost 200 yards. He may not be as mobile as used to be, but he is still more mobile than most QBs.

 

[keasley45]

Keasley,

There is a giant yawning gulf between Rex Grossman and Drew Brees.

Few ever said that Wilson does not have flaws. He doesn't have to be Brady or Brees to be worthwhile.

But the idea that we are better off, he is easily replaceable, or that this team can come close to being as effective without him - being forced to play with these rosters the Pete Carroll way?

No. That is laughable.


I get taking potshots at him may make it easier to let him go. And maybe he was gone regardless, that brand-building thing only goes so far in this corner of the US. So maybe this is a coping mechanism that people are using.

But to imply he could not be better or that we will do better? Hilarious.

This is all beyond our control and the result on betting on Carroll instead of Wilson. And maybe Wilson was gone regardless and it wasn't a choice anyway. But if it was? Then it was stupid.

And when Wilson leaves? The party ends, even though it has been kind of barely there for the past 3-4 years anyway.

Wilson has flaws. All QBs do. He is still THE primary reason we were winning. And unless we luck into a low-round gem at QB (unlikely), probably the last good QB here for a while - which means very few playoff opportunities past the point we lose him.

The Packers bet on Rodgers instead of McCarthy. That is why they are a SB favorite.

We bet on McCarthy instead of Rodgers.* (The funny thing is that McCarthy of today is actually a better coach than Carroll of today. That is why we probably are going to miss the playoffs for a while after we lose Wilson.)

*Not implying Wilson is as good a QB as Rodgers.

Not implying at all that a franchise qb is easy find. It's also not necessarily a journey through the black abyss that the 90s was.

And I understand that every qb has his flaws. The issue with Wilson is that he seems to have overlooked them in his quest for greatness. He says... its on me I have to be better. But then defends stupid play.

It's claimed he doesn't want to leave. But in an interview yesterday when Pete was asked whether things were good and we'd be saved from the circus that was last offseason, he basically said he couldn't say , that he couldnt guve false hope, that there are a lot of moving parts, and ownership has given them the mandate to explore all options.

That doesn't sound like all is good. And being that last offseason was started by Russ, all about Russ wanting to do Russ, and this offseason has already started with him wanting to explore options... there's no mystery here. He did nothing in his pressers over the season to convey in the slightest way that his feeling about his play has changed.

And in that same interview, when Pete was asked what changed about the running game, he said pretty much what I've been saying... that it was less that the line did anything spectacularly different and more that they just leaned on the run toward the end when it was there before but chose not to.

The coach and qb are not aligned.

Add to that not just the run game that was there and not taken advantage of for a desire to throw - one obviously not at the behest of the coach, but a pass game that had receivers running open for easy 3rd down conversions and potential td's all year and there's a VERY clear picture of a qb who wants to do one thing, regardless of what's available to him or working schematically, and a franchise that's now seemingly intimating that they're ready to explore options because of it.

And frankly, when yiu watch us unwilling to play complimentary ball against the Titans and Vikings, giving up play after play against GB, missing wide open players against Arizona earlier in the season, I flat reject the notion that Russel Wilson is the reason we are winning. We neutered our own running game because he wanted to play his way and lost for it. In what game where we relied on the pass and not the run, was Russel effective and the 'reason' we won? One. The second game against the 9ers. You could make the claim that if we were top 5 in 3rd down conversions but in the lower half of the league in rainbow pass, explosive plays, we might have ended up in a better spot.

Converting 3rd downs at a high rate can generate points more consistentky than relying on the explosive plays that are now ( aside from undeniable HOF accuracy WHEN he throws) mostly all thats left of Russel's portfolio. We lived on explosive plays this year and couldn't move the ball through the air to move the chains. If yiu are last or near the bottom of the league in passing efficiency on 3rd down conversions (and have been only avg at best over the years), how in God's name can you be the reason your team is winning?

He looked as lost this year the majority of the time as he did over the 2ndnhalf of last year. That's not hate. That's looking at the tape and watching him not audible out of certain plays or make the right reads. And he does it enough now that it's a consistent pattern and not some anomaly to be cherrypicked to make him 'look bad'. It's who he is.


I say given Russ's actions, talent aside (nobody denies his ability) he has chosen to pursue HIS path. I'm for the Hawks pursuing theirs.

It's being made out to seem as if the entire future fortune from here to the end of time relies upon us doing whatever it takes to keep one Russel Wilson. That's complete nonsense. Will we be better right away? I have no idea. Will we be worse? That's an absolute possibility. But this notion that if we keep #3 around with his beyond obvious flaws - flaws he's had for years - that we will somehow waltz back to another Lombardi because we subtract Pete - the best coach in the nfc over the last decade - is bonkers. It's been Russ's show since the last play of our second superbowl.

 

[DarkVictory23]

It's being made out to seem as if the entire future fortune from here to the end of time relies upon us doing whatever it takes to keep one Russel Wilson. That's complete nonsense. Will we be better right away? I have no idea. Will we be worse? That's an absolute possibility. But this notion that if we keep #3 around with his beyond obvious flaws - flaws he's had for years - that we will somehow waltz back to another Lombardi because we subtract Pete - the best coach in the nfc over the last decade - is bonkers. It's been Russ's show since the last play of our second superbowl.

I just want to highlight this point (though, technically, that was our third Super Bowl... ) because it's important.

Our three best seasons in terms of team success with Russ under center were basically his first three seasons, when Russ's play was somewhere (depending what your personal feelings are on special teams) between third and fourth most important to our success, with a gigantic gulf between most important (our defense) and everything else.

Since that fateful interception, when we put the fate of our team in Russ's arm (something we pretty much did not do as a team those first three years when our Seahawks averaged the least amount of Pass Attempts in the league), we've slowly made the team more and more about our QB with varying degrees of success. Outside of the very first season post "the interception", everyone pretty much agrees we haven't shown the spark of a true Super Bowl contender, regardless of W-L during the regular season.


And the question I have, what do we have to do to show we're 'trying' to go with Russ? What does that look like?

We've let him become the center piece of our offense even though that's not what got us to the promised land the first time. We've changed our entire offensive scheme from one that ran from under center more than the NFL average to a team that's playing from shotgun more than the average (not a feature of Pete's offense before we started trying to run our offense through Russ's arm), we alienated key members of the defense that got us to two Super Bowls to play up our offense's role, we've tied up tons of salary cap into the WR who does the best at making Russ's backyard plays work, and, oh yeah, we signed Russ to what was at the time biggest QB contract in the NFL.

I mean, outside of making Russ his own offensive coordinator, what else is supposed to be done?

 

[John63]

Keasley,

There is a giant yawning gulf between Rex Grossman and Drew Brees.

Few ever said that Wilson does not have flaws. He doesn't have to be Brady or Brees to be worthwhile.

But the idea that we are better off, he is easily replaceable, or that this team can come close to being as effective without him - being forced to play with these rosters the Pete Carroll way?

No. That is laughable.


I get taking potshots at him may make it easier to let him go. And maybe he was gone regardless, that brand-building thing only goes so far in this corner of the US. So maybe this is a coping mechanism that people are using.

But to imply he could not be better or that we will do better? Hilarious.

This is all beyond our control and the result on betting on Carroll instead of Wilson. And maybe Wilson was gone regardless and it wasn't a choice anyway. But if it was? Then it was stupid.

And when Wilson leaves? The party ends, even though it has been kind of barely there for the past 3-4 years anyway.

Wilson has flaws. All QBs do. He is still THE primary reason we were winning. And unless we luck into a low-round gem at QB (unlikely), probably the last good QB here for a while - which means very few playoff opportunities past the point we lose him.

The Packers bet on Rodgers instead of McCarthy. That is why they are a SB favorite.

We bet on McCarthy instead of Rodgers.* (The funny thing is that McCarthy of today is actually a better coach than Carroll of today. That is why we probably are going to miss the playoffs for a while after we lose Wilson.)

*Not implying Wilson is as good a QB as Rodgers.

Not implying at all that a franchise qb is easy find. It's also not necessarily a journey through the black abyss that the 90s was.

And I understand that every qb has his flaws. The issue with Wilson is that he seems to have overlooked them in his quest for greatness. He says... its on me I have to be better. But then defends stupid play.

It's claimed he doesn't want to leave. But in an interview yesterday when Pete was asked whether things were good and we'd be saved from the circus that was last offseason, he basically said he couldn't say , that he couldnt guve false hope, that there are a lot of moving parts, and ownership has given them the mandate to explore all options.

That doesn't sound like all is good. And being that last offseason was started by Russ, all about Russ wanting to do Russ, and this offseason has already started with him wanting to explore options... there's no mystery here. He did nothing in his pressers over the season to convey in the slightest way that his feeling about his play has changed.

And in that same interview, when Pete was asked what changed about the running game, he said pretty much what I've been saying... that it was less that the line did anything spectacularly different and more that they just leaned on the run toward the end when it was there before but chose not to.

The coach and qb are not aligned.

Add to that not just the run game that was there and not taken advantage of for a desire to throw - one obviously not at the behest of the coach, but a pass game that had receivers running open for easy 3rd down conversions and potential td's all year and there's a VERY clear picture of a qb who wants to do one thing, regardless of what's available to him or working schematically, and a franchise that's now seemingly intimating that they're ready to explore options because of it.

And frankly, when yiu watch us unwilling to play complimentary ball against the Titans and Vikings, giving up play after play against GB, missing wide open players against Arizona earlier in the season, I flat reject the notion that Russel Wilson is the reason we are winning. We neutered our own running game because he wanted to play his way and lost for it. In what game where we relied on the pass and not the run, was Russel effective and the 'reason' we won? One. The second game against the 9ers. You could make the claim that if we were top 5 in 3rd down conversions but in the lower half of the league in rainbow pass, explosive plays, we might have ended up in a better spot.

Converting 3rd downs at a high rate can generate points more consistentky than relying on the explosive plays that are now ( aside from undeniable HOF accuracy WHEN he throws) mostly all thats left of Russel's portfolio. We lived on explosive plays this year and couldn't move the ball through the air to move the chains. If yiu are last or near the bottom of the league in passing efficiency on 3rd down conversions (and have been only avg at best over the years), how in God's name can you be the reason your team is winning?

He looked as lost this year the majority of the time as he did over the 2ndnhalf of last year. That's not hate. That's looking at the tape and watching him not audible out of certain plays or make the right reads. And he does it enough now that it's a consistent pattern and not some anomaly to be cherrypicked to make him 'look bad'. It's who he is.


I say given Russ's actions, talent aside (nobody denies his ability) he has chosen to pursue HIS path. I'm for the Hawks pursuing theirs.

It's being made out to seem as if the entire future fortune from here to the end of time relies upon us doing whatever it takes to keep one Russel Wilson. That's complete nonsense. Will we be better right away? I have no idea. Will we be worse? That's an absolute possibility. But this notion that if we keep #3 around with his beyond obvious flaws - flaws he's had for years - that we will somehow waltz back to another Lombardi because we subtract Pete - the best coach in the nfc over the last decade - is bonkers. It's been Russ's show since the last play of our second superbowl.

as has been factually shown in this forum we lead the league in 3rd and long, every team PC has been an HC of in the NFL led the league in 3rd and long. Our conversion on 3rd down was worse under the 2 qbs prior to Wilson to include Hass.

and again all that aside IF and it's a big IF PC, Waldron and Wilson have come to an accord, and based on the last 2 games they might have we should be good, Given we were 63% on 3rd down.

 

[toffee]

He's asking to be traded without coming out and saying it. He wants out and we want him gone so that we can focus on winning. No need for drama from a 5-9' quarterback with zero mobility in his 30's. I'd rather have picks

Sorry, I have to disagree. Wilson may not have elite mobility at this stage of his career, but he is still mobile and far from zero mobility.

I do agree with you on the 'out' part. Wilson has been speaking from one corner of his mouth about wanting to stay, right after he said from the other corner of his mouth that he is exploring options elsewhere. But hey, it's working, we have playoff games going on but all the media talking heads were talking about Russell Wilson. Clever way to gain media attention, at the expense of team unity that is. This could be his modus operandi, and why his teammates had issues with him.

again read the article the exploring was only a response to if the Hawks are looking to trade him. Has it occurred that while the media has been spinning this as Wilson wants out, behind the scenes they are spinning it to Wilson that the Hawks want to trade him? especially give the false article that came out saying they wanted to but PC said no a the last second.

As to the mobility thing that is false just last year he had over 500 yards and most were on scrambles. This year he was hurt for a large part of the year but still had almost 200 yards. He may not be as mobile as used to be, but he is still more mobile than most QBs.

"Wow babe you sure looked hot, by the way I am married and one woman man, doing anything tonight?" See, covered both bases.

 

[John63]

It's being made out to seem as if the entire future fortune from here to the end of time relies upon us doing whatever it takes to keep one Russel Wilson. That's complete nonsense. Will we be better right away? I have no idea. Will we be worse? That's an absolute possibility. But this notion that if we keep #3 around with his beyond obvious flaws - flaws he's had for years - that we will somehow waltz back to another Lombardi because we subtract Pete - the best coach in the nfc over the last decade - is bonkers. It's been Russ's show since the last play of our second superbowl.

I just want to highlight this point (though, technically, that was our third Super Bowl... ) because it's important.

Our three best seasons in terms of team success with Russ under center were basically his first three seasons, when Russ's play was somewhere (depending what your personal feelings are on special teams) between third and fourth most important to our success, with a gigantic gulf between most important (our defense) and everything else.

Since that fateful interception, when we put the fate of our team in Russ's arm (something we pretty much did not do as a team those first three years when our Seahawks averaged the least amount of Pass Attempts in the league), we've slowly made the team more and more about our QB with varying degrees of success. Outside of the very first season post "the interception", everyone pretty much agrees we haven't shown the spark of a true Super Bowl contender, regardless of W-L during the regular season.


And the question I have, what do we have to do to show we're 'trying' to go with Russ? What does that look like?

We've let him become the center piece of our offense even though that's not what got us to the promised land the first time. We've changed our entire offensive scheme from one that ran from under center more than the NFL average to a team that's playing from shotgun more than the average (not a feature of Pete's offense before we started trying to run our offense through Russ's arm), we alienated key members of the defense that got us to two Super Bowls to play up our offense's role, we've tied up tons of salary cap into the WR who does the best at making Russ's backyard plays work, and, oh yeah, we signed Russ to what was at the time biggest QB contract in the NFL.

I mean, outside of making Russ his own offensive coordinator, what else is supposed to be done?

It depends on your definition of success if you are narrow-minded to say anything less than an SB is successful then yeah. But that also means that outside of 3 seasons the hawks as a team have been awful, truth be told almost every team in the league as a % have been awful. IF your definition is the record then 2020 12-4 was a great year. IN fact, this year is the only losing record since Wilson came to town and in the 2 years prior to Wilson, we were 7-9 and 1 year included a top run game and defense.

Again PC without Wilson sub 500 with Wilson over 600.


FYI Sorry to tell you we have not had a full season with Wilson being the centerpiece of the offense.

AS to what you have to show for it you have 9 winning seasons, 8 playoff appearances.that means 80% playoffs and 90% on winning record

Lets compare
Rodgers
17 seasons (first couple he did not start) 14 winning seasons, 10 playoffs That is 82% winning seasons, and 71% playoffs. Oh look less than Wilson

Some of you seem to think it is easy to get into the playoffs and win. It's not. If it were everyone would get in and win all the time

 

[hawkfan68]

I'll preface this as I hope that RW is back in 2022 and is sincere when he says he wants to stay in Seattle. If Denver gets Quinn as their HC, I can see them making a strong play for RW. RW did say he would strongly consider a trade to the Broncos. As it stands right now, I see the Broncos as the frontrunner in getting Quinn as their HC.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I think Scottymojo said it best when he compared Russell Wilson to Ben Roethlisberger on Wilson's first contract. They're very similar in how they approach the game, and in some ways the hubris in which they do. When Bruce Arians was the OC for the Steelers, I remember hearing the same exact complaints that I heard about all of our OCs. Funny enough, throughout the years with each different HC I heard the same, exact things from Steeler fans. The problem wasn't the OC, it was the QB. Interestingly enough, Arian's looked like a completely different OC with a different QB -- that isn't a coincidence.

Wilson, like Roethlisberger is a QB that has a very specific skill set. He can buy time for long developing plays, and they both have a hell of a deep ball. Unfortunately, there is also some drawbacks, drawbacks that don't always show up in stats. Russell Wilson is not good at the fine details and procedural elements of the game. Pre-snap he seems to struggle vs. some of his peers. Zone blitzes, and disguised coverages really seem to throw Wilson off of his game. If teams take away the deep ball for too long he starts pressing and forcing the deepball. Teams learned that if they come out in cover-2, Wilson doesn't really have an answer.

Does this mean Wilson is a bad player? No, but it also means that he is certainly not the same level of passer as guys such as the Mahomes, Rodgers, Bradys, and the Mannings of this world. Wilson is a QB that works best with the running game to minimize his issues. Whenever teams went into cover-2 in the later half of the season we'd come out running. Penny faced less stacked boxes than any of our rushers, and that was no accident. Wilson is not that great when he is the main show, but as a complimentary piece in a balanced offense -- he has the potential to be an MVP level of player. The problem is, Wilson's attitude. Wilson is not the executive chef, he's just a chef in the kitchen that follows recipes. He needs to understand that.

 

[toffee]

It's being made out to seem as if the entire future fortune from here to the end of time relies upon us doing whatever it takes to keep one Russel Wilson. That's complete nonsense. Will we be better right away? I have no idea. Will we be worse? That's an absolute possibility. But this notion that if we keep #3 around with his beyond obvious flaws - flaws he's had for years - that we will somehow waltz back to another Lombardi because we subtract Pete - the best coach in the nfc over the last decade - is bonkers. It's been Russ's show since the last play of our second superbowl.

I just want to highlight this point (though, technically, that was our third Super Bowl... ) because it's important.

Our three best seasons in terms of team success with Russ under center were basically his first three seasons, when Russ's play was somewhere (depending what your personal feelings are on special teams) between third and fourth most important to our success, with a gigantic gulf between most important (our defense) and everything else.

Since that fateful interception, when we put the fate of our team in Russ's arm (something we pretty much did not do as a team those first three years when our Seahawks averaged the least amount of Pass Attempts in the league), we've slowly made the team more and more about our QB with varying degrees of success. Outside of the very first season post "the interception", everyone pretty much agrees we haven't shown the spark of a true Super Bowl contender, regardless of W-L during the regular season.


And the question I have, what do we have to do to show we're 'trying' to go with Russ? What does that look like?

We've let him become the center piece of our offense even though that's not what got us to the promised land the first time. We've changed our entire offensive scheme from one that ran from under center more than the NFL average to a team that's playing from shotgun more than the average (not a feature of Pete's offense before we started trying to run our offense through Russ's arm), we alienated key members of the defense that got us to two Super Bowls to play up our offense's role, we've tied up tons of salary cap into the WR who does the best at making Russ's backyard plays work, and, oh yeah, we signed Russ to what was at the time biggest QB contract in the NFL.

I mean, outside of making Russ his own offensive coordinator, what else is supposed to be done?

"What else is supposed to be done?" Jody can reward Russ as a part owner. Russ has clearly stated to be an owner in the league is one of his goals. Jody can start with rewarding Russ as a minority owner, and every year transfer more share of the franchise to Russ. There are many ways to make our franchise QB happy, unlimited ways actually.

 

[keasley45]

It's being made out to seem as if the entire future fortune from here to the end of time relies upon us doing whatever it takes to keep one Russel Wilson. That's complete nonsense. Will we be better right away? I have no idea. Will we be worse? That's an absolute possibility. But this notion that if we keep #3 around with his beyond obvious flaws - flaws he's had for years - that we will somehow waltz back to another Lombardi because we subtract Pete - the best coach in the nfc over the last decade - is bonkers. It's been Russ's show since the last play of our second superbowl.

I just want to highlight this point (though, technically, that was our third Super Bowl... ) because it's important.

Our three best seasons in terms of team success with Russ under center were basically his first three seasons, when Russ's play was somewhere (depending what your personal feelings are on special teams) between third and fourth most important to our success, with a gigantic gulf between most important (our defense) and everything else.

Since that fateful interception, when we put the fate of our team in Russ's arm (something we pretty much did not do as a team those first three years when our Seahawks averaged the least amount of Pass Attempts in the league), we've slowly made the team more and more about our QB with varying degrees of success. Outside of the very first season post "the interception", everyone pretty much agrees we haven't shown the spark of a true Super Bowl contender, regardless of W-L during the regular season.


And the question I have, what do we have to do to show we're 'trying' to go with Russ? What does that look like?

We've let him become the center piece of our offense even though that's not what got us to the promised land the first time. We've changed our entire offensive scheme from one that ran from under center more than the NFL average to a team that's playing from shotgun more than the average (not a feature of Pete's offense before we started trying to run our offense through Russ's arm), we alienated key members of the defense that got us to two Super Bowls to play up our offense's role, we've tied up tons of salary cap into the WR who does the best at making Russ's backyard plays work, and, oh yeah, we signed Russ to what was at the time biggest QB contract in the NFL.

I mean, outside of making Russ his own offensive coordinator, what else is supposed to be done?

"What else is supposed to be done?" Jody can reward Russ as a part owner. Russ has clearly stated to be an owner in the league is one of his goals. Jody can start with rewarding Russ as a minority owner, and every year transfer more share of the franchise to Russ. There are many ways to make our franchise QB happy, unlimited ways actually.

Jody could start a movement to get the competition committee to outlaw 2 HIGH coverage on the grounds that it's bad for the game, in the same way the league made hard, press coverage illegal off the line of scrimmage. That was entirely in response to our dominance. They owe us one.

Bam! CHAMPIONSHIP!

Russ is Happy, Pete is Happy, and we can all start talking about something other than RW.

 

[toffee]

It's being made out to seem as if the entire future fortune from here to the end of time relies upon us doing whatever it takes to keep one Russel Wilson. That's complete nonsense. Will we be better right away? I have no idea. Will we be worse? That's an absolute possibility. But this notion that if we keep #3 around with his beyond obvious flaws - flaws he's had for years - that we will somehow waltz back to another Lombardi because we subtract Pete - the best coach in the nfc over the last decade - is bonkers. It's been Russ's show since the last play of our second superbowl.

I just want to highlight this point (though, technically, that was our third Super Bowl... ) because it's important.

Our three best seasons in terms of team success with Russ under center were basically his first three seasons, when Russ's play was somewhere (depending what your personal feelings are on special teams) between third and fourth most important to our success, with a gigantic gulf between most important (our defense) and everything else.

Since that fateful interception, when we put the fate of our team in Russ's arm (something we pretty much did not do as a team those first three years when our Seahawks averaged the least amount of Pass Attempts in the league), we've slowly made the team more and more about our QB with varying degrees of success. Outside of the very first season post "the interception", everyone pretty much agrees we haven't shown the spark of a true Super Bowl contender, regardless of W-L during the regular season.


And the question I have, what do we have to do to show we're 'trying' to go with Russ? What does that look like?

We've let him become the center piece of our offense even though that's not what got us to the promised land the first time. We've changed our entire offensive scheme from one that ran from under center more than the NFL average to a team that's playing from shotgun more than the average (not a feature of Pete's offense before we started trying to run our offense through Russ's arm), we alienated key members of the defense that got us to two Super Bowls to play up our offense's role, we've tied up tons of salary cap into the WR who does the best at making Russ's backyard plays work, and, oh yeah, we signed Russ to what was at the time biggest QB contract in the NFL.

I mean, outside of making Russ his own offensive coordinator, what else is supposed to be done?

"What else is supposed to be done?" Jody can reward Russ as a part owner. Russ has clearly stated to be an owner in the league is one of his goals. Jody can start with rewarding Russ as a minority owner, and every year transfer more share of the franchise to Russ. There are many ways to make our franchise QB happy, unlimited ways actually.

Jody could start a movement to get the competition committee to outlaw 2 HIGH coverage on the grounds that it's bad for the game, in the same way the league made hard, press coverage illegal off the line of scrimmage. That was entirely in response to our dominance. They owe us one.

Bam! CHAMPIONSHIP!

Russ is Happy, Pete is Happy, and we can all start talking about something other than RW.

Hard press coverage, that reminded me of greatness of Jerry Rice, dude was hard pressed, double covered for all of his career. And he was a 4.71sec 40 yards guy, didn't even have that track speed, come to think of it, Steve Young at 4.55 was faster.

 

[nwHawk]

Players that are committed to a team dont say things like exploring all options. If he was committed..he would say I'm coming back next year and were gonna win.

We’ll said!!! I totally agree.

 

[chris98251]

I just want to highlight this point (though, technically, that was our third Super Bowl... ) because it's important.

Our three best seasons in terms of team success with Russ under center were basically his first three seasons, when Russ's play was somewhere (depending what your personal feelings are on special teams) between third and fourth most important to our success, with a gigantic gulf between most important (our defense) and everything else.

Since that fateful interception, when we put the fate of our team in Russ's arm (something we pretty much did not do as a team those first three years when our Seahawks averaged the least amount of Pass Attempts in the league), we've slowly made the team more and more about our QB with varying degrees of success. Outside of the very first season post "the interception", everyone pretty much agrees we haven't shown the spark of a true Super Bowl contender, regardless of W-L during the regular season.


And the question I have, what do we have to do to show we're 'trying' to go with Russ? What does that look like?

We've let him become the center piece of our offense even though that's not what got us to the promised land the first time. We've changed our entire offensive scheme from one that ran from under center more than the NFL average to a team that's playing from shotgun more than the average (not a feature of Pete's offense before we started trying to run our offense through Russ's arm), we alienated key members of the defense that got us to two Super Bowls to play up our offense's role, we've tied up tons of salary cap into the WR who does the best at making Russ's backyard plays work, and, oh yeah, we signed Russ to what was at the time biggest QB contract in the NFL.

I mean, outside of making Russ his own offensive coordinator, what else is supposed to be done?

"What else is supposed to be done?" Jody can reward Russ as a part owner. Russ has clearly stated to be an owner in the league is one of his goals. Jody can start with rewarding Russ as a minority owner, and every year transfer more share of the franchise to Russ. There are many ways to make our franchise QB happy, unlimited ways actually.

Jody could start a movement to get the competition committee to outlaw 2 HIGH coverage on the grounds that it's bad for the game, in the same way the league made hard, press coverage illegal off the line of scrimmage. That was entirely in response to our dominance. They owe us one.

Bam! CHAMPIONSHIP!

Russ is Happy, Pete is Happy, and we can all start talking about something other than RW.

Hard press coverage, that reminded me of greatness of Jerry Rice, dude was hard pressed, double covered for all of his career. And he was a 4.71sec 40 yards guy, didn't even have that track speed, come to think of it, Steve Young at 4.55 was faster.

His combine speed was that, but Walsh said when he was on the field his football speed was much faster, watch his workout routine also he built his quickness and speed thru that and is how he became faster and better as well as much stringer.

 

[keasley45]

I think Scottymojo said it best when he compared Russell Wilson to Ben Roethlisberger on Wilson's first contract. They're very similar in how they approach the game, and in some ways the hubris in which they do. When Bruce Arians was the OC for the Steelers, I remember hearing the same exact complaints that I heard about all of our OCs. Funny enough, throughout the years with each different HC I heard the same, exact things from Steeler fans. The problem wasn't the OC, it was the QB. Interestingly enough, Arian's looked like a completely different OC with a different QB -- that isn't a coincidence.

Wilson, like Roethlisberger is a QB that has a very specific skill set. He can buy time for long developing plays, and they both have a hell of a deep ball. Unfortunately, there is also some drawbacks, drawbacks that don't always show up in stats. Russell Wilson is not good at the fine details and procedural elements of the game. Pre-snap he seems to struggle vs. some of his peers. Zone blitzes, and disguised coverages really seem to throw Wilson off of his game. If teams take away the deep ball for too long he starts pressing and forcing the deepball. Teams learned that if they come out in cover-2, Wilson doesn't really have an answer.

Does this mean Wilson is a bad player? No, but it also means that he is certainly not the same level of passer as guys such as the Mahomes, Rodgers, Bradys, and the Mannings of this world. Wilson is a QB that works best with the running game to minimize his issues. Whenever teams went into cover-2 in the later half of the season we'd come out running. Penny faced less stacked boxes than any of our rushers, and that was no accident. Wilson is not that great when he is the main show, but as a complimentary piece in a balanced offense -- he has the potential to be an MVP level of player. The problem is, Wilson's attitude. Wilson is not the executive chef, he's just a chef in the kitchen that follows recipes. He needs to understand that.

Well said!

 

[toffee]

I think Scottymojo said it best when he compared Russell Wilson to Ben Roethlisberger on Wilson's first contract. They're very similar in how they approach the game, and in some ways the hubris in which they do. When Bruce Arians was the OC for the Steelers, I remember hearing the same exact complaints that I heard about all of our OCs. Funny enough, throughout the years with each different HC I heard the same, exact things from Steeler fans. The problem wasn't the OC, it was the QB. Interestingly enough, Arian's looked like a completely different OC with a different QB -- that isn't a coincidence.

Wilson, like Roethlisberger is a QB that has a very specific skill set. He can buy time for long developing plays, and they both have a hell of a deep ball. Unfortunately, there is also some drawbacks, drawbacks that don't always show up in stats. Russell Wilson is not good at the fine details and procedural elements of the game. Pre-snap he seems to struggle vs. some of his peers. Zone blitzes, and disguised coverages really seem to throw Wilson off of his game. If teams take away the deep ball for too long he starts pressing and forcing the deepball. Teams learned that if they come out in cover-2, Wilson doesn't really have an answer.

Does this mean Wilson is a bad player? No, but it also means that he is certainly not the same level of passer as guys such as the Mahomes, Rodgers, Bradys, and the Mannings of this world. Wilson is a QB that works best with the running game to minimize his issues. Whenever teams went into cover-2 in the later half of the season we'd come out running. Penny faced less stacked boxes than any of our rushers, and that was no accident. Wilson is not that great when he is the main show, but as a complimentary piece in a balanced offense -- he has the potential to be an MVP level of player. The problem is, Wilson's attitude. Wilson is not the executive chef, he's just a chef in the kitchen that follows recipes. He needs to understand that.

Sorry I bet to differ on a minor detail: someone in the kitchen that follows recipes is a COOK, not a chef.

 

[themunn]

The problem is in his NFL career PCs system did not work till he got a QB of Wilson caliber. So so far he has not proven he can. Given PC himself said without Wilson he would not have been here this long that kind of tells you what he thinks. Also as to College let me remind you of the state he left that school in.

Again Prior to Wilson, he had a sub 500 record in the NFl with Wilson over 600.

in 2011 he had an avg Qb Jackson, he had Lynch and 1200 yards from him ranked 7th. His defense was top 10 in yards and scoring and guess what 7-9. So sorry I don't agree for his system to work in the NFL it requires a Qb that can take over a game and make magic,

Trying to say because he did in college so he can in the NFL is ridiculous the history books are littered with coaches and players who did in college but failed in the NFL.

So the answer is no he has not done it....yet.

But it DID work without Wilson, we went from a team that went 4-12 and 5-11 with -98 and -110 point differential to a team that made the playoffs in 2010 with inferior talent, and then a +6 differential in 2011, finishing 2nd in scoring defense. All with a BELOW average QB in Tavaris Jackson, who suffered a torn pec injury and was still a better option than Charlie Whitehurst at QB.

For the first year of Lynch's career in Seattle he was averaging about 3 YPC, but in last 8 games, he started playing within the system and playing the way Pete wanted him to.

We then drafted a future HoF QB, but also in the next 2 years the team added pieces like Bobby Wagner, Cliff Avril, Michael Bennett, Bruce Irvin who took our defense from being merely good to historically great.

So to say Pete's system doesn't work without Wilson is to say it doesn't work without any of those players either. But those players were there and they were there because of Pete Carroll and John Schneider.

Once we added a competent QB to our roster we started winning more games yes, but we're not the only team in the NFL that needs a competent QB to win games - the Bengals won their first playoff game in over 30 years. Is it a coincidence that this happened in the first season that their Number 1 overall draft pick QB played a full season? The Packers won the number 1 overall seed this year, but lost both games where Jordan Love played significant snaps this year. Does Matt LeFleur's system only work when he has Aaron Rodgers available?