Seattle got better deal for Wilson than Texans for Watson?

[MyrtleHawk]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Jason_OTC/status/1504923224064372738[/tweet]

Thoughts?

 

[AROS]

Despite the exhausting narrative here where many seem to think JC and PC have suddenly become decrepit, senile old men that have no clue what they are doing, it actually seems to me that they may just still have something left in the tank.

 

[acer1240]

Despite the exhausting narrative here where many seem to think JC and PC have suddenly become decrepit, senile old men that have no clue what they are doing, it actually seems to me that they may just still have something left in the tank.

Amen old friend.

This trade absolutely had to happen and I am thrilled with what the Hawks got in return. JS is a baller and I'm excited to see his next move

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I mean the Seahawks don’t have to pay $225+ million for either an aging Wilson whose hero ball might not translate as much with declining mobility nor deal with the PR nightmare of Watson no matter how good he is.

I say it’s a Win.

 

[JayhawkMike]

I don’t have a problem with the specifics of the trade. We got some decent return for RW. I just have a problem with the actions of RW and JS that made RW WANT to leave. That hasn’t changed.

 

[bmorepunk]

Despite the exhausting narrative here where many seem to think JC and PC have suddenly become decrepit, senile old men that have no clue what they are doing, it actually seems to me that they may just still have something left in the tank.

Maybe in getting something once they believed it was a lot cause in a couple years keeping him. Seems hard to believe they're not significantly responsible for the events that led up to that point. They sent away the one thing that's really hard to get (Bears have been looking since the middle of the 20th century), and while we can supposedly get excited off "they got better value", all that value is meaningless if we spend another 15 years without a QB for this team. Which is a very real, likely scenario.

More to the tweet, I actually laughed at "I added some numbers off an arbitrary chart and will now compare them directly". There's something super silly about it.

 

[Tusc2000]

Jason's reasoning comes down to the viewpoint that those three guys named Moe are actually going to be decent contributors next season. That's a big TBD.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Jason's reasoning comes down to the viewpoint that those three guys named Moe are actually going to be decent contributors next season. That's a big TBD.

Seattle got the better deal anyway, considering that Watson is 7 years younger and his 2019 season was better than any single season Russ has ever had statistically.

 

[onanygivensunday]

I don’t have a problem with the specifics of the trade. We got some decent return for RW. I just have a problem with the actions of RW and JS that made RW WANT to leave. That hasn’t changed.

Russ wanted out to pursue his "legacy", which is to annually lead the NFL in passing yards, TDs combined with winning multiple Lombardis.

Pete's run-first offensive strategy was/is in direct conflict with Russ' vision of achieving his legacy.

When Jody extended Pete for another five years Russ' departure was essentially determined.

That, and John Schneider's extreme frustration with Mark Rodgers (Russell's agent) was the proverbial final straw. There's no way John wanted to negotiate another Wilson extension with Rodgers so Seattle cut their losses by trading Wilson.

The outcome became inevitable.

 

[Tokadub]

Thoughts?

It's debatable.

IMO Wilson was NEVER good without Marshawn Lynch or when he wasn't personally rushing for around 500-800 yards per season...

Once Wilson lost Lynch and stopped rushing for 500+ yards per season we haven't been deep in the playoffs. That's a fact.

I don't know which trade is better. I'd rather have Watson than Wilson at this point. But I'd also rather have Wilson than trusting our coaches/management to find his replacement now that they let Watson go...

All in all we are probably the loser here because we either won't find a replacement (Deshaun Watson was like the ONLY ONE???) or we'll get Malik Willis who won't shake out in the NFL in all probability.

I liked the 2 minutes of film I've seen of Malik Willis but if the tape was true he'd be a top 3 pick. Something is wrong with the guy on a fundamental level imo (based on 2 min of film review).

If Malik Willis is actually good we won't get him, if he falls to pick #9 he will be a bust. We lose either way. I think we are in for a good 5+ years of no decent QB on the team so. Under that criteria I would predict the Browns got the best deal, the Seahawks got the worst.

 

[nwHawk]

I’m comfortable with the return for Russ, and I think it had been time to move on from him for a couple years.

I think fans are too hung up on the name. Franchise QBs make the guys they play with better. Outside of Baldwin, Lockett and DK, how many no name WRs and TEs did Russ turn into solid players? Couldn’t you make the argument that those three studs were going to be very good to great players playing with any other QB in the league? I think so. Russ enjoyed that benefit. How many Jimmy Graham and Greg Olson type players regressed under Russell’s game style?

Many fans would be surprised to learn that none of Russell’s teammates showed up to support Russ when he received the Bart Starr or Walter Payton awards this year. That’s not normal, and is a telling sign.

Cam Newton was still seen as a franchise QB even after he got cut, didn’t take long to realize that wasn’t true.

If today’s franchise QB is a public popularity contest, consider me unimpressed. Don’t be surprised if Russ regresses in the coming years and makes this trade look solid.

 

[Rosco]

Thoughts?

It's debatable.

IMO Wilson was NEVER good without Marshawn Lynch or when he wasn't personally rushing for around 500-800 yards per season...

Once Wilson lost Lynch and stopped rushing for 500+ yards per season we haven't been deep in the playoffs. That's a fact.

I don't know which trade is better. I'd rather have Watson than Wilson at this point. But I'd also rather have Wilson than trusting our coaches/management to find his replacement now that they let Watson go...

All in all we are probably the loser here because we either won't find a replacement (Deshaun Watson was like the ONLY ONE???) or we'll get Malik Willis who won't shake out in the NFL in all probability.

I liked the 2 minutes of film I've seen of Malik Willis but if the tape was true he'd be a top 3 pick. Something is wrong with the guy on a fundamental level imo (based on 2 min of film review).

If Malik Willis is actually good we won't get him, if he falls to pick #9 he will be a bust. We lose either way. I think we are in for a good 5+ years of no decent QB on the team so. Under that criteria I would predict the Browns got the best deal, the Seahawks got the worst.

Willis isn’t a top 10 prospect by no means. Against legitimate teams he was a turnover machine. 3 ints a game type turnover machine. This isn’t the year to be drafting a QB.

 

[bigskydoc]

I've maintained for a long time that the first team to realize that QBs are expendable will be the first true legacy team under the salary cap.

Keep a healthy, mobile, rookie contract QB under center, and build the rest of the team with the saved money. Every few years, go out and get another rookie, either through the draft or through trade. If you luck into a 3rd round Wilson, trade him for a king's ransom when his rookie contract is about to run out. Don't try to stretch for a franchise guy, just get a guy that is good enough.

I have yet to see a good organization try it, but I think it could be done successfully.

Franchise QBs are overrated UNLESS their primary goal is winning multiple Super Bowls, and they are willing to sacrifice the record setting contract. Obviously, a Brady, or a Rodgers, on a 15% of the cap contract is best, but that is even more rare than a true "franchise" guy in the draft.

#whynotus

 

[CalgaryFan05]

I mean the Seahawks don’t have to pay $225+ million for either an aging Wilson whose hero ball might not translate as much with declining mobility nor deal with the PR nightmare of Watson no matter how good he is.

I say it’s a Win.

Totally agree. The 4 years olds can go play for someone else. Well, with all of the money, so there's that.

 

[BleuEyedHawk]

I've maintained for a long time that the first team to realize that QBs are expendable will be the first true legacy team under the salary cap.

Keep a healthy, mobile, rookie contract QB under center, and build the rest of the team with the saved money. Every few years, go out and get another rookie, either through the draft or through trade. If you luck into a 3rd round Wilson, trade him for a king's ransom when his rookie contract is about to run out. Don't try to stretch for a franchise guy, just get a guy that is good enough.

I have yet to see a good organization try it, but I think it could be done successfully.

Franchise QBs are overrated UNLESS their primary goal is winning multiple Super Bowls, and they are willing to sacrifice the record setting contract. Obviously, a Brady, or a Rodgers, on a 15% of the cap contract is best, but that is even more rare than a true "franchise" guy in the draft.

#whynotus

Amen, thank you. Not many people have expressed this in so many words, but I agree and think this makes a lot of sense. I hope that we return to it.

Russ began as a team member and evolved into a "Star". When a team caters to and rewards players to such a degree that it cuts into obtaining and satisfying surrounding talent, then the team as a whole suffers.

Denver is ecstatic for pulling off the trade, but I wonder what they'll think in a couple of years when Russ holds them over the barrel for a "Star" contract? I imagine they'll tire of his agent and Russ's team of people too.

 

[12th Dimension]

I've maintained for a long time that the first team to realize that QBs are expendable will be the first true legacy team under the salary cap.

Keep a healthy, mobile, rookie contract QB under center, and build the rest of the team with the saved money. Every few years, go out and get another rookie, either through the draft or through trade. If you luck into a 3rd round Wilson, trade him for a king's ransom when his rookie contract is about to run out. Don't try to stretch for a franchise guy, just get a guy that is good enough.

I have yet to see a good organization try it, but I think it could be done successfully.

Franchise QBs are overrated UNLESS their primary goal is winning multiple Super Bowls, and they are willing to sacrifice the record setting contract. Obviously, a Brady, or a Rodgers, on a 15% of the cap contract is best, but that is even more rare than a true "franchise" guy in the draft.

#whynotus

Amen, thank you. Not many people have expressed this in so many words, but I agree and think this makes a lot of sense. I hope that we return to it.

Russ began as a team member and evolved into a "Star". When a team caters to and rewards players to such a degree that it cuts into obtaining and satisfying surrounding talent, then the team as a whole suffers.

Denver is ecstatic for pulling off the trade, but I wonder what they'll think in a couple of years when Russ holds them over the barrel for a "Star" contract? I imagine they'll tire of his agent and Russ's team of people too.

Agree. I think Pete and John figured this out years ago, but chose the low risk route. It kept us mostly happy.

In a cap constrained league, unless you have a Brady or Rodger’s, you go all in when you identify a unique draftable talent. I think it’s the new paradigm for NFL QB’s if a club wants continuous relevance. It is risky, but doable.

 

[12AngryHawks]

Despite how I feel about PC/JS, they were right to move on from Wilson & get a good haul for him while they still could. Wilson was, no doubt, gonna price his way out of Seattle.

What the Browns just did was the most "Browns" move imaginable. 3 first rounders, and a fully guaranteed 230 mil. contract, all for a QB who's had 22 sexual misconduct allegations against him, and might still face punishment from the league? Yikes! I can't imagine their fanbase is all that thrilled about this move.

Yeah, the deal Seattle got was far & away better.

 

[ivotuk]

Noah Fant is an early 1st round talent without being a rookie. Bonus

Shelby is a damn good DT on an extremely team friendly contract.

Drew Lock is a great place holder, who, with the right OC and game plan can take this team to the Playoffs.

Brown's got screwed. However, they will be very good for a while.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

I've maintained for a long time that the first team to realize that QBs are expendable will be the first true legacy team under the salary cap.

Keep a healthy, mobile, rookie contract QB under center, and build the rest of the team with the saved money. Every few years, go out and get another rookie, either through the draft or through trade. If you luck into a 3rd round Wilson, trade him for a king's ransom when his rookie contract is about to run out. Don't try to stretch for a franchise guy, just get a guy that is good enough.

I have yet to see a good organization try it, but I think it could be done successfully.

Franchise QBs are overrated UNLESS their primary goal is winning multiple Super Bowls, and they are willing to sacrifice the record setting contract. Obviously, a Brady, or a Rodgers, on a 15% of the cap contract is best, but that is even more rare than a true "franchise" guy in the draft.

#whynotus

Amen, thank you. Not many people have expressed this in so many words, but I agree and think this makes a lot of sense. I hope that we return to it.

Russ began as a team member and evolved into a "Star". When a team caters to and rewards players to such a degree that it cuts into obtaining and satisfying surrounding talent, then the team as a whole suffers.

Denver is ecstatic for pulling off the trade, but I wonder what they'll think in a couple of years when Russ holds them over the barrel for a "Star" contract? I imagine they'll tire of his agent and Russ's team of people too.

This This This. thank goodness.

 

[bmorepunk]

Denver is ecstatic for pulling off the trade, but I wonder what they'll think in a couple of years when Russ holds them over the barrel for a "Star" contract? I imagine they'll tire of his agent and Russ's team of people too.

Denver spent the last seven years getting other things into place and then having the QB position drown them.

I'll believe bigskydoc's model when it happens. Otherwise good/great teams getting burned by the QB position is constant.