Stop Me If You've Heard This One Before...

[John63]

McVay didn't outcoach Pete. Our QB made a game changing mistake, and their defense is better than ours.

Wrong our wr failed to make his block which is why the int happened

 

[jamescasey1124]

McVay didn't outcoach Pete. Our QB made a game changing mistake, and their defense is better than ours.

Wrong our wr failed to make his block which is why the int happened

Yup. And were just going to forget about the fumble too so we can blame russ for losing a team game.

 

[LTH]

This was definitely a Pete game plan and vs a dominant ram DL and a question Mark at QB for them it made sense to start by limiting risk.

Unfortunately that type of game plan won’t survive losing the turnover battle (indeed it’s designed to limit your own offense as a trade off to limiting turnovers) so it started taking on water with the pick six which looked to be some pretty crap execute in what should have been a safe, quick screen the likes of which many called for until we derped it.

That game plan also can’t survive your run D disappearing for the first half (unforgivable given how limited the ram passing was) and your defense giving up the big play. You can’t say you scheme failed when Adams is right there to get the INt or a bat down and just falls on his ass because he can’t play the ball in the air. You can’t hide him from covering all game long.

After reeds big return he was itching to do something risky all game and finally did it late with a fumble being cute.

When the execution destroyed the initial game plan we didn’t have any further answers to the Ram defense in our bag, and with Wilson throwing multiple near picks on quick routes over the middle in the second half IDK what we could have called besides sideline and deep routes. You can’t live on the former, and we lacked the protection for the latter.

IF we’d have eliminated turnovers or IF our OL could stop being crushed for a while or IF Wilson could have executed over the middle. Alas none of that happened. Those IFs are what I’d add to any discussion about game plan.

The other thing was the penalties, starting out 1st-25? 1st and 15.... those are hard situations against this Rams D...I just thought when they could see that they were not going to be able to protect Wilson against this D line they should have gone back to the run more consistently and tried to control the game tempo... They were running the ball effectively... really frustrating game...the O line got stomped by a really well coached talented Rams D...

LTH

 

[Boycie]

QB play was bad because he runs for his life most of the game. This ones on Pete.

RW makes too much money and it hurts the rest of the team.

 

[Boycie]

QB play was bad because he runs for his life most of the game. This ones on Pete.

RW makes too much money and it hurts the rest of the team.

 

[Rat]

McVay didn't outcoach Pete. Our QB made a game changing mistake, and their defense is better than ours.

Wrong our wr failed to make his block which is why the int happened

Yup. And were just going to forget about the fumble too so we can blame russ for losing a team game.

When you take up like half the team's salary cap, you put yourself in position for more than 1/53rd of the blame.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Fade - excellent points, and I agree with all of them. It's also getting more and more frustrating year after year to watch it, but also to watch half our own fan base excuse it away and ignore what their eyes see - which is also that Russell has not been himself for basically two months. This ass-kicking (and that's what it was) is something plenty of people around here saw as having a high likelihood of happening today...but no, those of us who are realistic and not just eternal optimists about it, get denounced as haters in some form.

QB play was bad because he runs for his life most of the game. This ones on Pete.

Yep...we make life so much harder on our own offense due to ineptitude, predictability, and very basic scheming.

McVay didn't outcoach Pete. Our QB made a game changing mistake, and their defense is better than ours.

Sorry, but you are wrong and clearly don't understand a number of finer points of football. Freddie Swain was supposed to block, or at least chip, the defender coming at him and instead didn't do CRAP and let him just burst right by him to intercept the ball. That interception was not on Russell.

 

[AubHawk71]

Sorry, Pete.

It's time to take the keys away from grampa.

We had some good rides. But now, it's just...tense. And you took the wrong exit again.

 

[Chapow]

Pete Carroll's Seahawks come out flat and get down double digits in the first half of a playoff game and face plant.

Then talk about how optimistic things look for next season in the post-game interview.

Rinse-repeat.

The defense still isn't very good, even though they have the talent. Both the offense and defense are worse than the sum of there parts due to being simplistic and predictable to ever be more than what they are.

But Pete, and a good chunk of the fanbase are content with these results so the same mistakes and issues continue to happen year after year.

It's not about wins and losses. It's about the process. I know if I was in charge of the operation, and kept coming up short for the same reason, I would look to fix it. But improving how you go about things is frowned upon. Just keep doing what your doing.

McVay outclassed Carroll once again. And the biggest reason was he fired his underperforming DC and vaulted his defense to #1, with relatively the same personell. Pete could learn a thing or two from McVay.

The Seahawks are ridiculously predictable on offense. The Rams were squatting on nearly all of there routes, and I don't know how Pete and his staff can look at what they're doing on that side of the ball and be cool with it.

If I had a $1 for every time Russ threw the ball to a tightly covered WR, a defender aggressively broke on a ball, snapped the ball in under 2 seconds, or they failed to convert on 3rd and short. I'd be a millionaire. Pete Carroll is the master of shutting down his own offense.

Stop... I've heard this before.

 

[Fade]

It takes a special kind of delusion to think that INT was Wilson's fault.

The throw was perfect.

The Problem is the Rams could see it coming a mile away and jumped it. (Playcaller.)

The WR, Swain lazily pursued his block (Blocker.)

DK should comeback to the ball, not stand flatfooted (Receiver.)

It's a screen play. Their is no reading the defense post snap. You get it in your hands and chuck it as fast as you can, trusting the players will execute. They didn't. BUT ironically it does personify the problem with the Seahawks offense for the final 10 games of the season, though. The wrong conclusion was drawn is all. TOO PREDICTABLE. You know you done F'd up as an offensive staff, when WR screens are getting picked off.

============== Further Thoughts: An add on to my OP if you will=================

I don't know how anyone can not come away appalled at this offensive scheme, and gameplan. The Rams were squatting on all of their routes, looking to jump everything. It's like they knew the offense better than the Seahawks knew their own offense. Is that Wilson's fault? Or the coaches?

The offensive line routinely blocked Aaron Donald 1v1, and Aaron Donald was continually in the backfield like a hot knife through butter, wrecking the game with immediate pressure. Is that Wilson's fault? Or the coaches?

If know If I was coaching against Donald, I would have 2 blockers assigned to him on pass plays. And I would try and roll my QB away from him as much as I could.

How many rollouts were called? How many times did they move the pocket to give a different launch point to keep the rushers guessing where Wilson would be? There are things you can call to help mitigate an O-Line that is getting beat consistently. How much uptempo did they run to help keep the Rams coverages more simplified, and likely gas their D-Line out? (Not counting the end of the game, when you're playing against the clock.)

Wilson played bad, sure, but the coaching was far worse?

And that is what is way, way, more concerning.

Same approach, Same coaches, Same results. Early playoff exit.

What I am thinking about right now is what if JS and RW both leave in the not too distant future? RW was carrying a dumpster fire a couple of seasons ago, they've actually rebuilt fairly well since then, personnel wise. They have a very talented roster, but it is poorly optimized to say the least including Wilson.

Wilson should be in a rollout, widezone, west coast offense. Shanny/McVay/LaFluer/Stefanski. That is what would best fit his skill set. The other offense that would fit him would be a spread it out, uptempo K-gun with Wilson calling his own plays, which is pretty much what they do when they go uptempo. But Pete hates it, because it hurts his defense. When in reality it just exposes his defense. So the offense is there to serve the defense. Snap the ball with 1 Sec on the playclock, don't turn it over, wait them out. Depressing, and the players look apathetic because of it. Hell, a good chunk of the fanbase is starting to become apathetic when I think about it. That's how bad it is.

For those that want to trade Wilson. I don't think you fully realize how bad they will be if they did so. Not many QBs in this league can make Chicken Salad out of Chicken Poo all while doing it in a remedial, predictable offense, with zero margin for error.

They have a bottom 5 staff in place when it comes to QB Development and Friendliness. They would need a ready made solution that no team would ever trade away. So a massive downgrade at QB isn't going to make things better, but way worse. Like worst team in the division worse. That new QB whoever it was, would be placed in the same restrictive box. Pete would then be fired shortly after. As NFL teams don't keep around 70+ year old coaches with losing seasons.

If Schneider leaves that would be a serious punch to the gut. He has an incredible hit rate in the later rounds, and that is invaluable in a salary cap league. At the same time I would like to see these guys away from Pete Carroll's deathgrip and see what they can do at their full potential, merely as a curiosity. But I don't want that to happen ultimately.

aMaZiNg CoAcHiNg:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/Mitch_Seattle/status/1348076104213434369[/tweet]

 

[SonicHawk]

DK's awareness rating is a solid 0. That guy has a lot of talent and some gaping weaknesses. He's a fantastic piece to stretch out the defense and his size is a problem for any average CB.

You nailed it with the rollouts. How do we have RW as QB, who's incredible in space... who defenses have to respect his running ability and his ability to find the receiver when coverage breaks down, and we're forcing him to sit in a quickly closing pocket?

No doubt Wilson had a bad game. He has been bad for weeks, but our gameplan is a huge part of it.

We're playing against an injured QB. We're likely going to get the ball back a lot, let's push. Let's try things. We don't have to play a fn field position game.

 

[Fade]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/BrockHuard/status/1348111399096995842[/tweet]
Hard to be upset, when you can see it coming a mile away.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Joe_Fann/status/1348105709552947200[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Joe_Fann/status/1348082767016312834[/tweet]
pEte CaRrOlL iS a GrEaT cOaCH!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RobertJTurbin/status/1348079253238075392[/tweet]
Predictable. Keyword.

 

[LTH]

It takes a special kind of delusion to think that INT was Wilson's fault.

The throw was perfect.

The Problem is the Rams could see it coming a mile away and jumped it. (Playcaller.)

The WR, Swain lazily pursued his block (Blocker.)

DK should comeback to the ball, not stand flatfooted (Receiver.)

It's a screen play. Their is no reading the defense post snap. You get it in your hands and chuck it as fast as you can, trusting the players will execute. They didn't. BUT ironically it does personify the problem with the Seahawks offense for the final 10 games of the season, though. The wrong conclusion was drawn is all. TOO PREDICTABLE. You know you done F'd up as an offensive staff, when WR screens are getting picked off.

============== Further Thoughts: An add on to my OP if you will=================

I don't know how anyone can not come away appalled at this offensive scheme, and gameplan. The Rams were squatting on all of their routes, looking to jump everything. It's like they knew the offense better than the Seahawks knew their own offense. Is that Wilson's fault? Or the coaches?

The offensive line routinely blocked Aaron Donald 1v1, and Aaron Donald was continually in the backfield like a hot knife through butter, wrecking the game with immediate pressure. Is that Wilson's fault? Or the coaches?

If know If I was coaching against Donald, I would have 2 blockers assigned to him on pass plays. And I would try and roll my QB away from him as much as I could.

How many rollouts were called? How many times did they move the pocket to give a different launch point to keep the rushers guessing where Wilson would be? There are things you can call to help mitigate an O-Line that is getting beat consistently. How much uptempo did they run to help keep the Rams coverages more simplified, and likely gas their D-Line out? (Not counting the end of the game, when you're playing against the clock.)

Wilson played bad, sure, but the coaching was far worse?

And that is what is way, way, more concerning.

Same approach, Same coaches, Same results. Early playoff exit.

What I am thinking about right now is what if JS and RW both leave in the not too distant future? RW was carrying a dumpster fire a couple of seasons ago, they've actually rebuilt fairly well since then, personnel wise. They have a very talented roster, but it is poorly optimized to say the least including Wilson.

Wilson should be in a rollout, widezone, west coast offense. Shanny/McVay/LaFluer/Stefanski. That is what would best fit his skill set. The other offense that would fit him would be a spread it out, uptempo K-gun with Wilson calling his own plays, which is pretty much what they do when they go uptempo. But Pete hates it, because it hurts his defense. When in reality it just exposes his defense. So the offense is there to serve the defense. Snap the ball with 1 Sec on the playclock, don't turn it over, wait them out. Depressing, and the players look apathetic because of it. Hell, a good chunk of the fanbase is starting to become apathetic when I think about it. That's how bad it is.

For those that want to trade Wilson. I don't think you fully realize how bad they will be if they did so. Not many QBs in this league can make Chicken Salad out of Chicken Poo all while doing it in a remedial, predictable offense, with zero margin for error.

They have a bottom 5 staff in place when it comes to QB Development and Friendliness. They would need a ready made solution that no team would ever trade away. So a massive downgrade at QB isn't going to make things better, but way worse. Like worst team in the division worse. That new QB whoever it was, would be placed in the same restrictive box. Pete would then be fired shortly after. As NFL teams don't keep around 70+ year old coaches with losing seasons.

If Schneider leaves that would be a serious punch to the gut. He has an incredible hit rate in the later rounds, and that is invaluable in a salary cap league. At the same time I would like to see these guys away from Pete Carroll's deathgrip and see what they can do at their full potential, merely as a curiosity. But I don't want that to happen ultimately.

aMaZiNg CoAcHiNg:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/Mitch_Seattle/status/1348076104213434369[/tweet]

AD is destroying everybody not just the Hawks... Russ Has been sacked if not the most in the NFL close to it... they could not roll out Russ because LF was lining up wide and every time they tried in the past he shut it down... what they should have done is run the ball straight at the rams D and took control of the tempo they were running the ball effectively and they got a way from it because they thought they had an opportunity cause AD was hurt ... that was a mistake.... They need to put some draft capital in the o line they have not been drafting well at OL with the exception of the guard they picked up Lewis... they can not allow teams like the Rams to get to Wilson rushing 4 and dropping everybody else in to coverage and then NOT run the ball... That's my problem with Schotty


LTH

 

[Fade]

The Seahawks coaching issues stem far beyond running vs passing, which is such a dumbed down way of looking at things.

What kind of runs? What kind of passes? When you telegraph everything thing you do with little variance, it is going to be tough sledding regardless.

 

[TwistedHusky]

It really is weird, and probably a function of Pete's ego, that he seems obvious to the importance of not letting the opposing team know what you want to do.

As a defensive coach, he has to know just how offenses are geared to hide their intention from the defense.

He has to know just how much easier it is to defend a play when you know what the offense is forced to do.

And yet he seems to have no problem with his own teams being incredibly predictable and regularly telegraphing their intentions before the snap.

 

[LTH]

The Seahawks coaching issues stem far beyond running vs passing, which is such a dumbed down way of looking at things.

What kind of runs? What kind of passes? When you telegraph everything thing you do with little variance, it is going to be tough sledding regardless.

Im not going to disagree that certain play calls like the screen were predictable being they ran that play against the Rams several times and the Rams secondary did their homework... it was a great play by the rams DB no question but it was also a missed play by F. Swain if he does his job thats not an INT...... I do think that from my limited understanding of how the game was played from a technical standpoint that the loss was multifaceted in several different areas but I definitely think schotty, Carroll and Russ have responsibility to bare...


I'm not going to at this point try to be specific on what passes and what runs because I don't think any of us understand what was going on in Schotty's mind... why he called the plays he did, what the communication was between Russ and Schotty... what the communication was between Schotty and Carroll... pretending you have the answer to that stuff without taking this into consideration is naive...from our perspective as fans we should speak with in general terms unless you or I or anybody has something to back it all up ... it's all opinion based stuff and that's ok...I could give you examples but it would only be speculation on my part...


LTH