Was Kobe Bryant The Most Influential Sports Athlete Ever?

[Uncle Si]

I think you misunderstand and greatly underestimate how influential these people are becoming in a social, cultural, economic, and even political way.

I very much understand history. I also understand Jackie Robinson and Jesse Owens place in it. They didn't change the world. Neither were firsts. Robinson was not the first professional black athlete. He broke American baseball's color barrier. Amazing fortitude. But not nearly the first person to break a sports color line. Jesse Owens wasn't even the first American black athlete to win gold in track and field. He did it in front of h!tler though.

These are incredible achievements that will stand on their own as historic.

But again, if we are going to talk history, let's really do that.

Back to the present, the influence, yes influence, an athlete like Ronaldo has is not measured only in popularity.

He didn't win A gold he won 4 in that Olympic, dominance and unprecedented at that time.

Right.. he was a great athlete. And he showed up a despotic leader at a time of heightened tensions in Europe.

He was not the first though. His influence was in that moment. But black athletes were already a part of the Olympic landscape.


Again, tremendous athlete and his standing up to racism was significant. That's not being argued here.

And soccer not f ir everyone. I get thst. And I'd never argue that Ronaldo was a more important athlete than an Ali, Robinson, Owens. Certainly not anywhere near as brave.

His influence represents the way athletes influence society today.

 

[chris98251]

I think you misunderstand and greatly underestimate how influential these people are becoming in a social, cultural, economic, and even political way.

I very much understand history. I also understand Jackie Robinson and Jesse Owens place in it. They didn't change the world. Neither were firsts. Robinson was not the first professional black athlete. He broke American baseball's color barrier. Amazing fortitude. But not nearly the first person to break a sports color line. Jesse Owens wasn't even the first American black athlete to win gold in track and field. He did it in front of h!tler though.

These are incredible achievements that will stand on their own as historic.

But again, if we are going to talk history, let's really do that.

Back to the present, the influence, yes influence, an athlete like Ronaldo has is not measured only in popularity.

He didn't win A gold he won 4 in that Olympic, dominance and unprecedented at that time.

Right.. he was a great athlete. And he showed up a despotic leader at a time of heightened tensions in Europe.

He was not the first though. His influence was in that moment. But black athletes were already a part of the Olympic landscape.


Again, tremendous athlete and his standing up to racism was significant. That's not being argued here.

INFLUENCE not necessarily popularity is the topic.

 

[Uncle Si]

we are probably just stuck on a definition at this point. But it's import to know how influential these athletes are in today's culture because of their popularity. i feel like we are going in circles. You are stating that athletes who have challenged or brought about social change are the only ones making an influence. And while those may the more important influences to us, they are not the most important influences globally, and especially today. Owens, Robinson, Ali were better people.

Ronaldo, for example, reaches the lives of hundreds of millions of people across the globe. His impact on market society in places where free will is often restricted alone is a huge influence. He has changed the way sports are marketed and managed. He has brought billions to the soccer industry and helped show how profitable all sports can be globally. He has effectively broken social media with his presence, and helped forge that as a new industry.

And that's without getting into how generous he has been with his millions, his promotion of female sports, and how many millions of children across the world are dreaming of being him, while stuck in the most rancid and horrid and oppressive places on the planet.

he is no hero, dont get me wrong. But that doesn't mean he hasnt greatly influenced culture and society at a level that previous athletes never had the means to.

Truth be told, i think he's a bit of a twat. But his influence is almost impossible to quantify.

 

[getnasty]

It's probably because of the time frame in which he came up in but yeah i'd say Kobe was pretty influential.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

First of all we need to define influence. You can have influence on a sport or culture without being popular. Or you can have influence on a lot of people but have little influence on the sport or culture. When I made this topic, I was talking more about how many people Kobe reached.

I see a lot of names like Bird, Pele, etc. Those guys were great, but all corners of the world didn’t know who they were because of the limitations of technology. Because of technology, Kobe was able to reach soccer players in South America and tennis players in Europe like Djokovic. I don’t think Larry Bird had much influence in Europe and South America when he was playing.

My point is, because of our day in age, everyone has seen and followed Kobe. People in China, South America and Europe. MJ was a huge name but I don’t think all those countries were able to have access to him. And definitely not athletes from the 70’s and before.

 

[Cyrus12]

Would anyone have asked this question 2 weeks ago and said yes? Obviously a role model for many of todays generation in the nba but in all of sports I'd have to say no.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Would anyone have asked this question 2 weeks ago and said yes? Obviously a role model for many of todays generation in the nba but in all of sports I'd have to say no.

If you asked me two weeks ago I’d have Kobe in my top 5. Not all time, but impact today. Between him, LeBron and Tiger Woods. I can’t even think what NFL player has had much impact. Brady is great, but the guy is pretty vanilla.

 

[acer1240]

People often forget but Mike Tyson was a superstar.

Let's celebrate more rapists!

Wasn't Bill Cosby "America's dad"?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Christiano Ronaldo.

His global impact and influence is far greater than Kobes was, or what James and Woods is. I think the only question would be is how transformative Ronaldo's influence is to athletes in other sports.

But Ronaldo's presence is incredible. 200 million instagram followers, has been in a running battle as best player in the world in the world's most supported sport for going on 16 years and across 4 major competitions.

Not to make it a competition, but I think something like this happening to him would have a far greater impact on the world than what we are seeing with Kobe, or would with a James or Woods.

Ever?

I mean if we're talking "influential," then there's an entire laundry list of guys before any modern day player. Jackie Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Pele, Jim Brown, Kareem, Gretsky, Jordan, just to name a handful.

But modern influential? Sure, Ronaldo is certainly at the top of the list with Messi for soccer, and I would put Kobe there. Look no further then what we've seen from all the modern day athletes all over the world the past two weeks remembering Kobe.

He impacted and influenced a LOT of athletes with his global appeal.

 

[Uncle Si]

Christiano Ronaldo.

His global impact and influence is far greater than Kobes was, or what James and Woods is. I think the only question would be is how transformative Ronaldo's influence is to athletes in other sports.

But Ronaldo's presence is incredible. 200 million instagram followers, has been in a running battle as best player in the world in the world's most supported sport for going on 16 years and across 4 major competitions.

Not to make it a competition, but I think something like this happening to him would have a far greater impact on the world than what we are seeing with Kobe, or would with a James or Woods.

Ever?

I mean if we're talking "influential," then there's an entire laundry list of guys before any modern day player. Jackie Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Pele, Jim Brown, Kareem, Gretsky, Jordan, just to name a handful.

But modern influential? Sure, Ronaldo is certainly at the top of the list with Messi for soccer, and I would put Kobe there. Look no further then what we've seen from all the modern day athletes all over the world the past two weeks remembering Kobe.

He impacted and influenced a LOT of athletes with his global appeal.

I feel like there's alot of posts that already went over this.

His overall popularity eclipses any athlete, ever. How that is turned into influence is probably debatable. His influence, and almost all of that is because of his popularity, may not be the groundbreaking social changes of previous athletes, but its nearly impossible to quantify as well. He has literally changed the landscape of the sports market and media.

Some of the athletes listed above are not global icons. Jackie Robinson did not break the color lines for athletes across the world, or even just in america. He did in baseball. The other guys listed are basically popular athletes. And again, noone in the world is as popular as Ronaldo at the moment (in anything, in any medium). All great athletes who changed their respective sports. Jordan, like Ronaldo, even changed sports economics.

How is that influential? I tried to lay it out in posts above. But with popularity now being a social mechanism, it's a fairly easy knot to tie.

 

[chris98251]

This age uses popularity, Clicks, and going viral as a measure of influence, that's the biggest issue.

Take a car, Ford was influential, why because he was the first to create the assembly line, it could have been any number of people but it was him. Now take Tucker, he had the most advanced automobile made at the time but could not get financial backing to mass produce it due to the other manufacturers black balling and locking him out of the market if memory serves here, but they did take his concepts and innovations and apply it to their vehicles, again influential but not as popular.

The Headlight was influential, it created a explosion of buying of cars as well because now you could drive at night, or the automatic transmission, what I am saying there are levels of influence.

The Radio I am sure was very popular as a addition but I don't think as much of a influence as the above, probably causes a lot more unwanted births however as people were parking and listening or at least pretending too.

 

[Uncle Si]

This age uses popularity, Clicks, and going viral as a measure of influence, that's the biggest issue.

Take a car, Ford was influential, why because he was the first to create the assembly line, it could have been any number of people but it was him. Now take Tucker, he had the most advanced automobile made at the time but could not get financial backing to mass produce it due to the other manufacturers black balling and locking him out of the market if memory serves here, but they did take his concepts and innovations and apply it to their vehicles, again influential but not as popular.

The Headlight was influential, it created a explosion of buying of cars as well because now you could drive at night, or the automatic transmission, what I am saying there are levels of influence.

The Radio I am sure was very popular as a addition but I don't think as much of a influence as the above, probably causes a lot more unwanted births however as people were parking and listening or at least pretending too.

and i think your analogy is flawed because you're looking at the popularity if radios in a car.

How influential were radios to culture when they were invented?

It's just an understanding of how vastly influential someone's popularity makes them today. Popularity does not equal influence, it creates it these days.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

When I made this thread I meant, how many people Kobe reached. I was amazed to see people from all over the world, and athletes across multiple sports, who were moved by Kobe’s death. He inspired so many people, I just see some names mentioned in here and don’t think they reached as many people.

 

[chris98251]

Jesus Christ took 100's of years to reach people yet he is pretty influential, if your influential your not forgotten and your message will spread internet or no internet, Martin Luther King, Malcom X, Hitler all had influence and still do good and or bad.

I am just saying influence is influence popularity or not.

My examples are not sports granted, but I guess Being a Black man playing a Ball game nobody else did when everyone in the league was White is just old news and doesn't matter because it doesn't get enough click and the technology was archaic to send a message.

A Black man winning 4 Gold medals in a Nazi sports event wasn't big either or influential because he other black people won medals and there was only a few Billion people on earth then and we can't reach them all.

A Soccer player using social network to market himself and a sport though is influential even if a large portion of a 1st world country doesn't even know who he is.

Kobe will be remembered for somethings, but like many he will not be one of those players that are transcending, great player but Jordon did it first on his level, and La Bron still doing it.

It does go back to definition of influence.

Was Obama influential more so then a Roosevelt because he had more clicks?

Maybe it's the inability to understand what influential and how the last few generations are being programmed to follow a crowd versus individual thoughts and thus are easily influenced and don't even know it. As in subliminal programming, it is a proven fact it is used in advertising and other things.

 

[Uncle Si]

Yes Chris... noone is disputing whether those people are influential. Again, you confuse and conflate what you deem as an important contribution to how the world works. The condescending tone to go along with it, as if I am discrediting the impact of some of those athletes, is just noise now. Jesse Owens was not the only person who stood up to Nazi germany, for example. His stand was just the most popular. You seem to want to believe that is being discredited. It's not. It's just being put in the proper perspective of the conversation. That is what history is. As someone who is trying to use it as part of this conversation, i'd assume you knew more about it. Instead, you're arguing your own contexts as if the rest of the world was anxiously awaiting what every American athlete does. I'd be very interested in the conversation about the impact of Jackie Robinson on sports, not just baseball in the 1950s. Or Owens impact on sports or culture, not just his athletic achievements. Because that's what the conversation is. But if history is a puzzle, you're just working the edges.

What you are missing is how influential modern athletes are, and how that is based from their popularity. Will Ronaldo bring about some major social change that puts him the annals of history? Probably not.. His influence will be measured in far different ways. The clicks, something you seem to misunderstand, are just the gateway. He has had a major impact on the sports market, which, in turn, has impacted the economies, politics, and culture of millions upon millions along 4-5 continents. His influence here in America is seen in how he forced networks to accept the popularity of a global sport and how now, major sports owners of your favorite teams are owners in soccer teams across the world. That influence is not quantifiable, but if you took a moment to think about it, there far reaches of it are pretty obvious. Ronaldo is not just a soccer player that most of the 1st world has never heard of. He is the most recognized popular figure in the world today, above any singer, politician, etc. Because you don't know that does not make it less true.

And this is just his influence as a player and superstar. his personal contributions to culture and society are also very significant, but are rarely detailed. Im not advocating a statue for him (there are several already), but he's not simply diving into a Scrooge McDuckian pool. Honestly, again, I don't even like the guy. He's just the perfect version of how modern society is working.

When you figure out the difference between how you define influence and how it can be defined today, maybe you can step down from that ridiculous soap box.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Christiano Ronaldo.

His global impact and influence is far greater than Kobes was, or what James and Woods is. I think the only question would be is how transformative Ronaldo's influence is to athletes in other sports.

But Ronaldo's presence is incredible. 200 million instagram followers, has been in a running battle as best player in the world in the world's most supported sport for going on 16 years and across 4 major competitions.

Not to make it a competition, but I think something like this happening to him would have a far greater impact on the world than what we are seeing with Kobe, or would with a James or Woods.

Ever?

I mean if we're talking "influential," then there's an entire laundry list of guys before any modern day player. Jackie Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Pele, Jim Brown, Kareem, Gretsky, Jordan, just to name a handful.

But modern influential? Sure, Ronaldo is certainly at the top of the list with Messi for soccer, and I would put Kobe there. Look no further then what we've seen from all the modern day athletes all over the world the past two weeks remembering Kobe.

He impacted and influenced a LOT of athletes with his global appeal.

I feel like there's alot of posts that already went over this.

His overall popularity eclipses any athlete, ever. How that is turned into influence is probably debatable. His influence, and almost all of that is because of his popularity, may not be the groundbreaking social changes of previous athletes, but its nearly impossible to quantify as well. He has literally changed the landscape of the sports market and media.

Some of the athletes listed above are not global icons. Jackie Robinson did not break the color lines for athletes across the world, or even just in america. He did in baseball. The other guys listed are basically popular athletes. And again, noone in the world is as popular as Ronaldo at the moment (in anything, in any medium). All great athletes who changed their respective sports. Jordan, like Ronaldo, even changed sports economics.

How is that influential? I tried to lay it out in posts above. But with popularity now being a social mechanism, it's a fairly easy knot to tie.

You're selling Robinson short, he broke the color barrier right after WW2, back when the rest of the civilized world still didn't trust the US as global leaders because of our backwards ideals about race. It was Robinson that showed that we were ready to step into the light of being looked up to as a world power.

I get what you're saying about Ronaldo, he's probably the first athlete to become a global icon and pave the way for how to capitalize and maximize his stardom. So if this thread was about marketing influence? Sure.

 

[chris98251]

Yes Chris... noone is disputing whether those people are influential. Again, you confuse and conflate what you deem as an important contribution to how the world works. The condescending tone to go along with it, as if I am discrediting the impact of some of those athletes, is just noise now. Jesse Owens was not the only person who stood up to Nazi germany, for example. His stand was just the most popular. You seem to want to believe that is being discredited. It's not. It's just being put in the proper perspective of the conversation. That is what history is. As someone who is trying to use it as part of this conversation, i'd assume you knew more about it. Instead, you're arguing your own contexts as if the rest of the world was anxiously awaiting what every American athlete does. I'd be very interested in the conversation about the impact of Jackie Robinson on sports, not just baseball in the 1950s. Or Owens impact on sports or culture, not just his athletic achievements. Because that's what the conversation is. But if history is a puzzle, you're just working the edges.

What you are missing is how influential modern athletes are, and how that is based from their popularity. Will Ronaldo bring about some major social change that puts him the annals of history? Probably not.. His influence will be measured in far different ways. The clicks, something you seem to misunderstand, are just the gateway. He has had a major impact on the sports market, which, in turn, has impacted the economies, politics, and culture of millions upon millions along 4-5 continents. His influence here in America is seen in how he forced networks to accept the popularity of a global sport and how now, major sports owners of your favorite teams are owners in soccer teams across the world. That influence is not quantifiable, but if you took a moment to think about it, there far reaches of it are pretty obvious. Ronaldo is not just a soccer player that most of the 1st world has never heard of. He is the most recognized popular figure in the world today, above any singer, politician, etc. Because you don't know that does not make it less true.

And this is just his influence as a player and superstar. his personal contributions to culture and society are also very significant, but are rarely detailed. Im not advocating a statue for him (there are several already), but he's not simply diving into a Scrooge McDuckian pool. Honestly, again, I don't even like the guy. He's just the perfect version of how modern society is working.

When you figure out the difference between how you define influence and how it can be defined today, maybe you can step down from that ridiculous soap box.

We get it


[youtube]waBb-UM5m4g[/youtube]

 

[Sgt. Largent]

When I made this thread I meant, how many people Kobe reached. I was amazed to see people from all over the world, and athletes across multiple sports, who were moved by Kobe’s death. He inspired so many people, I just see some names mentioned in here and don’t think they reached as many people.

Kobe was definitely a global influence, he was one of the first ambassadors of basketball to take the game worldwide. That resulted in what you're talking about, soccer clubs in Spain and England having a moment of silence, hockey clubs in Norway and Canada, etc.

Sports is not regional and myopic anymore, athletes and fans have access 24/7/365 to every sport all the time. Kobe was one of the first superstars to benefit from being seen and appreciated. Even more than MJ.

 

[Uncle Si]

We get it


[youtube]waBb-UM5m4g[/youtube][/quote]

This was great!

By the way, i'm not trying to just push a soccer player here... or the sport.

Also, per SGT, im not selling Robinson short. I understand his value to the sport and culture. But its impact was not as far reaching world wide as it was just in the US (where many professional black athletes already existed).

His impact, however, was in breaking a very distinct and protected color line. Less about baseball, and more about what it represented.

But I digress... these accomplishments are far more historic than Ronaldo. But the question is, who is more influential. And stretching his impact outside of just social change to economy, marketing, inter-regional politics, culture, etc, is important.

Ronaldo will never be associated with a "movement" and maybe that's why his impact is more difficult to define.

But im fine if someone wants to say "short answer: jackie robinson"

 

[Crizilla]

As great as Kobe was, I'd say Messi, Ronaldo, MJ, TW, and Tom Brady are more influential. Then I'd put Kobe, Jeter, and Tim Duncan.

These are just athletes I grew up watching btw. Russ will be up there soon.