When will we move on from John Schneider?

[Bobblehead]

I think the early Success of PC and JS drafting was Pete familiarity with the college players while Pete was at USC.. since he's moved on, he's not as familiar and it shows in his and Johns drafting...2012 was really the last great class right?

 

[Hawkstorian]

I find it hard to judge Schneider ... because like other say --- it's two headed beast with him and Pete Look at Cleveland -- that used to be us. I'm not satisfied with a lot of the results but I'm happy to give Schneider many benefits of many doubts.

 

[misfit]

I think the early Success of PC and JS drafting was Pete familiarity with the college players while Pete was at USC.. since he's moved on, he's not as familiar and it shows in his and Johns drafting...2012 was really the last great class right?

thats was like one of the greatest drafts in nfl history. are we really holding them to that standard? all pros and hall of famers out of every draft?

 

[Welshers]

Schneider will go whenever Pete goes, I believe. Pete was very clear about wanting full control of things when he came from USC. JS can't do anything without Petes approval. They are a team and will go together. I don't want either out for the near future. I'm very happy with how they have done. It is very hard winning a SB and we already have one. People need to stop calling for heads on a 6-3 team. At least wait and see how the season pans out please.

 

[Atradees]

Russell Wilson was all John.....Pete wanted to draft someone else. John had to convince Pete Russ was the one to take. Another thing I would add is Pete is like GM 2.0 he’s got as much to do with our drafting and player transactions as John.

Position coaches are picking players. Look closely.

 

[ludakrishna]

from 2014 onwards below are players from our drafts that I would consider decent

Britt
Clark
Lockett
Jarran Reed
Ifedi (ish)
Nick Vannett
Alex Collins
Shaquill Griffin
David Moore
Chris Carson
Penny
Dissly
Shaquem Griffin
Dickson
Marquise Blair
DK Metcalf
Jordyn Brooks
Damien Lewis
DeeJay Dallas

Maybe I've missed some? Maybe I'm slightly reaching on others, but that's not the worst list considering the meltdowns people are having. Perhaps lacking star power but we haven't had decent picks for a long long time (in terms of having a top 10 pick in the draft etc)

Man, the rainbow glasses are in full effect. That is a terrible record. I’m not expecting a superstar every pick, but that list only has 1 superstar on it, and that’s DK. The guy has drafted role players, which any GM can do. We can name the players above because they play for our team.

 

[getnasty]

Is this roster good enough to contend for a super bowl this year?

Have we been a winning franchise for the last 10 years?

I think were fine at GM.

 

[FPD]

I find it hard to judge Schneider ... because like other say --- it's two headed beast with him and Pete Look at Cleveland -- that used to be us. I'm not satisfied with a lot of the results but I'm happy to give Schneider many benefits of many doubts.

Omg you guys are ridiculous.

Schneider consistently puts one of the most competitive rosters together every year.
The last 10 years of Seahawks football has been the best football in our franchise's history.

And you want to fire him? For who?!
Omg we lost 2 games in a row and our defense sucks. Fire the GM! Are you serious? Are you hearing yourselves before you type this up?

His whole tenure here in Seattle, he's worked like a dog to give us fans to most competitive roster in the league.

When he took over what Ruskell had left behind, this team was in shambles. It was a disaster. We had no star players in 2010. Our best receiver was Mike Williams.
He got us the greatest QB in franchise history, built the L.O.B. from the ground up, traded a 4th Round pick for Lynch, drafted Wagner, Metcalf in the 2nd round. Canton will need to build a separate Seahawks wing just to fit all these amazing players in. I can go on.
Do you guys know how lucky we have it?
Yeah, we lost to a good Bills team and to a Rams team WE CAN NEVER BEAT and you guys want to fire this man?

I'm irate. I feel like Stephen A Smith. The hypocrisy here is palpable!!
No, we should not fire our GM.

So well said fellas, As I said in another thread, I remember the early 90's with Flores. I'm good with our leadership.

 

[hoxrox]

They need to reevaluate the entire player personnel and scouting department. We haven't had a stellar draft since Scot McCloughan left.

Having late 1st round picks every year and trading away top picks hasn't helped either. Meanwhile, teams like the 49ers were able to stack their roster by having multiple top first round picks year after year.

But it's not only on JS and PC. Here's everyone in the front office that needs to be reevaluated.

Executive vice president/general manager – John Schneider
Vice president of football operations – Scott Fitterer
Vice president of player personnel – Trent Kirchner
Director of college scouting – Matt Berry
Director of pro personnel – Nolan Teasley
Personnel executive – Alonzo Highsmith

 

[Sgt. Largent]

They need to reevaluate the entire player personnel and scouting department. We haven't had a stellar draft since Scot McCloughan left.

What team outside of the top 10 bottom dwellers that have a bunch of high draft picks every year has had a stellar draft?

I'm not defending Schneider, he's been just above average since our first 2-3 drafts. But the norm is all about trying to get a 40-50% hit rate on your picks, not the crazy 80-90% hit rate we had in the early drafts of Pete and John's tenure.

Lockett, Clark, Reed, DK, Griffin, Pocic, Carson, Moore, Swain, Dissly, Dickson, Blair, Amadi, Lewis and Brooks.

That's a good hit rate........and you have to remember Pete has the final say on every draft pick. If they're debating in the war room, Pete wins. We will never know all the inner debates and conflict over who to draft, but this is Pete's team, from top to bottom.........including final say on who we draft every single year.

 

[Maelstrom787]

They need to reevaluate the entire player personnel and scouting department. We haven't had a stellar draft since Scot McCloughan left.

What team outside of the top 10 bottom dwellers that have a bunch of high draft picks every year has had a stellar draft?

I'm not defending Schneider, he's been just above average since our first 2-3 drafts. But the norm is all about trying to get a 40-50% hit rate on your picks, not the crazy 80-90% hit rate we had in the early drafts of Pete and John's tenure.

Lockett, Clark, Reed, DK, Griffin, Pocic, Carson, Moore, Swain, Dissly, Dickson, Blair, Amadi, Lewis and Brooks.

That's a good hit rate........and you have to remember Pete has the final say on every draft pick. If they're debating in the war room, Pete wins. We will never know all the inner debates and conflict over who to draft, but this is Pete's team, from top to bottom.........including final say on who we draft every single year.

The 2019 draft in particular is looking pretty stellar compared to what can reasonably be expected from the draft slots they had.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Are we really blaming JS?

He does not hit on many 1st rounders. But his hit rate on 7th rounders is spectacular.

Imagine his overall grade( not per pick ) but in total player value acquired per draft is high. Certainly above average.

His UDFA success rate is high.

Trades are probably 50/50 w more failures in the splash trades. Same thing on splash FA deals.

But overall not terrible. He struggles to draft for need. But he hits enough HRs and triples to offset it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

But overall not terrible. He struggles to draft for need. But he hits enough HRs and triples to offset it.

Good point on drafting for need instead of best available.

Pete and John have also been slow to the party with drafting to how the league is changing. They just now stopped drafting prototypical LB's and CB's.......and went to the smaller quicker nickel and dime hybrid LB's and CB's.

The game is changing, and that means how we draft should also be changing, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Shouldn't be drafting 6'2 long slower CB's and 250 lb middle LB's. Defenses now need 4-5 quick sideline to sideline hybrid defenders, i.e. Budda Baker/Honey Badger types. Not Cody Barton/Tre Flowers types.

 

[hoxrox]

Lockett, Clark, Reed, DK, Griffin, Pocic, Carson, Moore, Swain, Dissly, Dickson, Blair, Amadi, Lewis and Brooks.

IMO, hits are above average or exceptional players.

Lockett (HIT)
Clark (HIT)
Reed (HIT, kind of)
DK (HIT, but very lucky he fell into our laps)
Griffin (average)
Pocic (HIT)
Carson (HIT)
Moore (HIT)
Swain (not enough play to evaluate)
Dissly (has shown flashes, but due to injuries, not enough play to evaluate)
Dickson (HIT)
Blair (good potential, but not enough play to evaluate)
Amadi (not enough play to evaluate)
Lewis (good potential but not enough play to evaluate)
Brooks (not enough play to evaluate)

So maybe 8 hits out of a total of how many draft picks over the years? Perhaps PC makes the final decisions, but the entire war room needs to better. For example, how did we miss on Budda Baker when he’s right in our back yard?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So maybe 8 hits out of a total of how many draft picks over the years? Perhaps PC makes the final decisions, but the entire war room needs to better. For example, how did we miss on Budda Baker when he’s right in our back yard?

I mentioned Baker above, and we missed for just the reason I listed......too late to the how to draft in the modern football era conversation. John and Pete were still drafting prototypical defensive players, and Baker didn't fit into that box.

My point is this entire thread is not accurate. You can't say "move on" from anybody without involving Pete into the conversation. Same as the "FIRE <insert coordinator>" threads.

You don't like the way the offense is schemed or personnell'd? Pete.
You don't like the way the defense is schemed or personnell'd? Pete.
You don't like who we're drafting or acquiring via trades and free agents? Pete.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Total different philosophy. Probably why we didn't get Baker or Rapp. We don't draft the best player for need.

Carroll (and likely JS) believe that teams with the best advantage are the teams with 'field tilters'. The trade for Adams is another example of that.

That field tilting player only comes along (outside of top 10 picks). Once every other year. Outside of 1st round picks even less.

So you start with the realization that it is probably easier to find a great player than a great player at a certain position. You also likely realize that players that fit the physical mold you set, won't always pan out. You likely spend 3-4 picks for every hit. This means you need a greater # of picks.

If you look, you notice we tend to trade back to get more picks that allow us to spin the wheel more.

You are drafting for upside, instead of the ability to immediately contribute (which is the usual measuring stick).

But you are trading uncertainty (the % chance the player can immediately come in and contribute) for the upside. And since your scouting and evaluation processes all center on this, you likely are better at it than evaluating talent to fill immediate holes.

Great for building a program. But terrible for filling holes due to losses to FA or injury. Additionally terrible for shoring up depth in areas of projected need. We seem to try to address that after the fact with UDFA (where we are very good) and trades (where we have a mixed bag of effectiveness).

But this strategy gets you the Frank Clarks and DK Metcalfs that you never would have gotten. It gets the Chris Carsons. Those kinds of stellar finds are not accidents, they are planned.

 

[Fade]

Are we really blaming JS?

He does not hit on many 1st rounders. But his hit rate on 7th rounders is spectacular.

Imagine his overall grade( not per pick ) but in total player value acquired per draft is high. Certainly above average.

His UDFA success rate is high.

Trades are probably 50/50 w more failures in the splash trades. Same thing on splash FA deals.

But overall not terrible. He struggles to draft for need. But he hits enough HRs and triples to offset it.

Also factor in Pete is pretty much deciding who they take in the first.

John needs to be given full autonomy before he can properly be evaluated. Based on his track record in KC, WAS, SEA (back in the Holmgren era), and Green Bay, he is awesome.

Early PC era I credit mostly Pete and Scott MC for their successful drafting, but John wanted Wilson bad, so credit goes to him for seeing it. I think he is one of the better GM's that is being hampered by the old man. Let John Cook.

 

[rcaido]

Lockett, Clark, Reed, DK, Griffin, Pocic, Carson, Moore, Swain, Dissly, Dickson, Blair, Amadi, Lewis and Brooks.

IMO, hits are above average or exceptional players.

Lockett (HIT)
Clark (HIT)
Reed (HIT, kind of)
DK (HIT, but very lucky he fell into our laps)
Griffin (average)
Pocic (HIT)
Carson (HIT)
Moore (HIT)
Swain (not enough play to evaluate)
Dissly (has shown flashes, but due to injuries, not enough play to evaluate)
Dickson (HIT)
Blair (good potential, but not enough play to evaluate)
Amadi (not enough play to evaluate)
Lewis (good potential but not enough play to evaluate)
Brooks (not enough play to evaluate)

So maybe 8 hits out of a total of how many draft picks over the years? Perhaps PC makes the final decisions, but the entire war room needs to better. For example, how did we miss on Budda Baker when he’s right in our back yard?

I would also throw in Glowinski, Ifedi, & Moore. Probably include Alex Collins too. So that's 12 out 29 picks from 2015-2017


What number would you consider good?

 

[scutterhawk]

:roll:

I will always say this: The problem is Pete and the fact that Pete hired John so John serves at the whim of Pete. I think John has made some shrewd moves. Look at getting Carlos Dunlap for only a 7th Round Pick and dumping the salary of BJ Finney who wasn't cutting it at Center! The draft is a crap shoot. But I think the last 2 drafts will be good. Look at teams like the Jets who used a number 1 pick on Sam Darnold and 4 years later are already looking at Trevor Lawrence. John insisted on getting Russell Wilson in the 3rd Round, and look at what the team has accomplished since then. Yes, I wish we made different moves in the drafts. Specifically passing on Budda Baker and Taylor Rapp. But I still think Pete is the one holding John back.

:roll:

 

[JGreen79]

I think you're over estimating the success rate of GM's in the NFL.

Since 2015 and excluding the first 20 picks. Players drafted by Seattle have played in 1413 games, been selected to 4 Pro Bowls, and voted All Pro 2 times.

This ranks 5th best in Games played, Tied for 5th in Pro Bowl Selections, and tied for 2nd in All Pro selections.