John63 wrote: hawk45 wrote: John63 wrote:
Great post. And this is where when you show either your own factual evidence of a great deal of shared responsibility for the failures last year and specifically Wilson leaving plays on the table, drive in and drive out, game in and game out, or evidence from experts versed in the pro game andnwith insight far beyond the average fan,, those trying to frame RW critics as just misguided 'haters' go silent.
It's why post game, when a coach is asked about what went wrong in a game, unless it was plainly obvious, the answer usually is, 'I need to go back and look at the tape '. Any fan making a declarative statement about what's right or wrong with the offense based on Sunday's fox telecast and without seeing game tape and really trying to see the big picture is dealing in conspiracy theories and half-truths at best.
There is literally half a season's worth of tape like the one covering the game vs the 49ers where Schotty called a great play and it went for zero or a loss because the ball just wasn't out on time. And frankly, I don't want to hear about how Pete Carrol forced Russel to not throw the ball to a wide open receiver over and over and over again. Russel is a 10yr vet now and should be able to distinguish between high risk and low risk, and understand the idea that if you get the ball out when you are supposed to, that when the playcall is exactly what you want, it makes it very difficult for the defender to make a play on the ball. Wait a split second, and that window closes. Basic timing.
And this is what tempers my enthusiasm for our new OC hire. I think we made a brilliant move with Waldron. But you can call whatever play you want. Add all the razzle dazzle and innovative route deployments you want. If the ball isn't thrown when it's supposed to be, with accuracy and confidence and anticipation, the play will not work.
Everyone clammers for an offensive system like KC, GB, TB, New Orleans, etc. Thats great and it looks like we have the potential for that now. But everyone ofnthe qbs in those systems has made a career of doing what RW failed to do over and over again last year and in season's past. If you disagree, look at the tape and offer an alternate explanation based on what actually happened and not just some blanket statement about the blocking needing to be better or Pete dictating plays.
My hope is that Waldron can get into wilson's head and help him through this shortcoming in his game because it's been there now for a while. My hope is that THAT is the magic that Waldron brings, because what the tape shows is that he only has to be a hair more creative maybe than Shotty or maybe just Schotty's equal as a playcaller for us to be successful otherwise.
As to Metcalf s frustration and calling out Pete. I personally think that's a lot of non story. I don't tbink he was calling him out as much as clumsily avoiding an answer, because last year, even in the second half, we were not a run, run, throw deep team. That's simply a false statement. And, if you watch the All22 of the Rams game (DKs tantrum game), there were a handful of plays where DK was agaun wide open on short routes and crosses and didn't get the ball. Everyine attributes his frustration to Pete's offense. I think he was pissed because he was inexplicably being missed by his qb.
Russ and DK are tight. He absolutkey will not come out and say... yeah, a lot of times, the plays were there, we just didn't make them.
I will say it again, here is the problem you can prove what the progression is. Great someone was open, but was he open in the progression, was there a throwing lane. Etc. I saw the very first play were the person was open on the left. great except he was not open when Wilson looked that way, there is no throwing lane, he would have had to float it over the defenders which is very dangerous. I know some of you need so badly for Wilson to be the biggest problem, Fact is he is not. Since you love fact so much, the FACT is DK called out PC not Wilson. You can try as much as you want to come up with a lame excuse why that is not what he did etc etc, but he did. So why don't we all stop pretending like we really know what is going on, we don't. all we are doing is proving either we are Wilson lovers, Wilson haters, or making crap up to stir the pot. Here is a fact for you 101.7, 3.5-1, 65%. You don't get career numbers like that if you just ignore open people all the time. Last year, 68.8, 3-1, 105.1 again you don't get season numbers like that ignoring open people.
That’s your fallback “was it in the progression” lately when folks show tape of Wilson failing to pull the trigger on a short or middle route.
It fails utterly because keasley45 quite rightly pointed out that all you do is spout speculation as a fan if you’re not watching or responding to tape.
Its clear you do not watch tape because the progression is addressed over and over and OVER in the tape and the tape analysts on Twitter and YouTube.
You can’t be bothered with any of that because it would expose your baseless accusations. “It’s Pete’s fault he didn’t call the touchdown play”. “It’s Pete’s fault he won’t let Russ throw a short pass”.
Matty brown on Twitter is *constantly* showing tape of Wilson staring at short routes and not pulling the trigger. Progression my ass, the guy won’t let it go. You’ll see tweets 5 times a game where he says, and shows, that Wilson doesn’t like his primary read, though the play is open. Often times because it’s zone under and Wilson can’t see and is afraid of a LB lurking outside the passing lane. IMO Wilson is right to be scared of that, but the bottom line is the OC has schemed a wide open receiver underneath for nothing, because it’s Wilson’s limitations that prevent him from throwing it there.
Which is why no OC is going to be able to present Wilson with a short game, and why all we can do vs the light boxes and 2 high is run 30 times. Maybe a new OC can do enough in the intermediate to make up for it but I doubt it. When Wilson is stymied by MLBs it just makes it awful easy to cover the rest of the field. Contrast that with how often our own LBs get used over the middle in coverage by pedestrian QBs.
Wilson’s struggles here also hurt his OL, heavily. Early in the season when he was seeing man looks under and threw short OL was perfectly fine. Go watch those games and it’s obvious Wilson is comfortable vs man and completed short passes when he saw a trailer.
Some Twitter tape analysts like cmikesspinmove theorize that a stud TE or large stud slot would help but LOL, if you have the best split end in the game and a great flanker in Lockett and still can’t operate vs 2 high without a stud slot or TE then give some of your salary back because you need to pay 3 pro bowl weapons and an OL and a bell cow back.
Wilson is a winner and we can win with him but but the conversation is boring and useless when we can’t deal with his actual strengths and weaknesses.
that's your fall back and everyone to ignore progressions, throwing lanes things every QB in the world needs and dopes. Why because it fits your narrative. IF playing Qb in the NFL was simple as hey someone ins the stands sees someone open so throw it everyone would be QB its not. IF the guy who did this breakdown and by the way for everyone saying this there is one saying what I am saying, he would be in the NFL right now. He is not. Th eolines struggles have hurt Wilson, so has the scheme, and OCs pension for focusing on safe throws, and wanting junk plays Your point is moot. The reality is the struggles of this offense lay at the feet of the man who runs it all PC. The 2 wbs who played under PC in Seattle also had the same issues. The O line was ranked close to last with them too. Recognizing someones strengths and weaknesses is fine but to do it in a silo like there are not others things impacting them is short-sighted at best. So basically if you are saying the sole reason for the offensive problem is all Wilson which is the way it sure sounds, then you really don't know much about football at all.
Nope. Never said the sole reason for the offensive failures are on Wilson. Just that the sole reason for our struggles aren't Pete manipulating plays or a porous offensive line.
And frankly the defense that the open receiver wasn't in his 'progression' is nonsense. When a qb double clutches, hesitates, looks at a wr and chooses not to throw, he's read the play and simply chose not to. Why? Again. It's incredible how according to some, none of the offensive woes fall on Wilson. Laughable even.
And now the guys who are also pointing out these flaws on SI or other platforms are uninformed as well? Just like I said, anyone who has the most remote notion that PART of the blame is wilson's is just a hater. Doesnt matter if you've played football, are an avid fan that looks beyond the Sunday telecast or are analyzing a team's play for a sports outlet. If you think russ is at fault, your nuts. OK...
And you are proving my point. Playing qb at any high level is hard. Very hard. Which is why when you have a qb that sees the field exceptionally well, reads the defense well (pre AND POST snap), anticipates a wr coming open well, they are the ones that routinely are labeled elite. To say the only
reason Rogers, Brady and the rest are so good is because they have all world o lines or all world OC's is just shortsighted. It's a reciprocal relationship. The o line helps the qb, but is made to look better if the qb gets the ball out. The OC gets the right call in, but is made to look better or worse depending on the qb's ability to execute the play the way it was called.
I never said russel couldn't do those things. I said that he plainly isn't right now. I'm aware of throwing lanes. I'm aware of progressions in a read. Im also aware that when a seasoned qb walks up tonthe line, looks at the d and sees that his no 1 is gonna be bracketed on his route, his number 2 is likely running into zone, that he has a good feel that the number 3 is likely now the primary. BEFORE the ball is snapped. Rogers does that play in and play out. Reads it. Ball comes out. Brady does it. Brees did it. The best of the best do. Russ is struggling with it.
It's not a narrative. Deny it if you want. Look at the film and find as many reasons as you want for why it happens, other than Russ is struggling. Doesnt matter to me. But its foolish to think changing the pkaycall alone will improve things.
Russ is a great QB. A phenomenal talent. But he is struggling. Something isn't clicking. He's holdingbthr ball too long and not getting it out in rhythm to the guy the defense is plainly dictating it should go to.
And this is a problem that is on russ and his OC to fix as much as diversifying the playbook. A good OC absolutkry can get a QB to overcome those things even mid career. Rich Gannon was a journeyman on the way to being a perennial backup before Gruden got to him and it clicked. Just one of many examples. The thing we are blessed with is Russ has been HOF good and I don't think he's yet to have it all click for him. Like I said. He's made the space for himself to buy thr time he needs to make a play outside the flow of the pkaycall. Thats all good. But the offense will be more consistent when he can do that AND read, adapt and execute the plays called with the same deadly efficiency as the other elite qb's in the league.
And what I'm saying doesn't remove fault from the bone headed playcalls we've seen, or the dumb decisions by Pete, or the spotty play at other positions (#3 wr, o-line, rb play). Just saying russ needs to shoulder the blame, and many around herebseem to think that he is just a victim of an old stubborn coach or stale playcalling. Evidence says otherwise.