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Russell Wilson last 6 years-$156 million and 3 playoff wins

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  • That’s a helluva lot of money paid to win 3 playoff games on a missed Viking FG, a backup Eagle QB and the Lions.

    That’s his actual earning for the last 6 years.
    JayhawkMike
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  • Wow, very fresh take. I'd like to hear your opinion on whether or not he should take a paycut, how long he holds the ball, and how much time he spends on his perfume brand, as I believe those are topics that have not been discussed and desperately need educated insight.
    ducks41468
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  • Don't you think our head coach played a huge part in that? Do you think that was all on Wilson? Is it Russell Wilson that calls an extremely conservative offense until the final hour in the 4th quarter? Is it Russell Wilson that makes won't get the play call in until the final second so he can't make any adjustments? Pete Carroll needs to go, and he's needed to go for awhile now. Do you know how many head coaches have a better records in the playoffs since 2015 than Pete Carroll? The number is quite extensive and that is including McCarthy.

    Bottom of the line here, Carroll should only have two wins in the playoffs since our last Super Bowl run. Those two wins were against a 40+ year old McCown who got injured part way through the game, and a Matthew Stafford with a sprained ankle and messed up throwing hand. A lot of our woes come from his conservative coaching style in the postseason, not Wilson.

    Fire Pete Carroll, he's washed up, he's Marty Schottenheimer at this point. If it's between Wilson and Carroll, i'm choosing Wilson 10 times out of 10.
    Spin Doctor
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  • ducks41468 wrote:Wow, very fresh take. I'd like to hear your opinion on whether or not he should take a paycut, how long he holds the ball, and how much time he spends on his perfume brand, as I believe those are topics that have not been discussed and desperately need educated insight.


    Bravo!!!
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  • It’s funny you are lumping me in with the people pushing for a RW trade.

    Those are simply irrefutable facts as to RW salary and his post season record.

    I’d rather PC be fired 100 times out of 100.

    That being said if nothing changes we are in for more of the same. Or worse.
    JayhawkMike
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  • ducks41468 wrote:Wow, very fresh take. I'd like to hear your opinion on whether or not he should take a paycut, how long he holds the ball, and how much time he spends on his perfume brand, as I believe those are topics that have not been discussed and desperately need educated insight.



    Perhaps it would be a fresher take to hear how its all Pete's fault and that the o-line sucks?? Havent seen that at all :roll:

    Pretty sure the correct answer is all of the above

    Everyone needs to be better, including Russ
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  • We haven't explored Ciara's role and oh yea the kids. RW was single in 2013 and 2014, ah ha !
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  • I would agree there are a number of players in the league taking down obscene amounts of money for playing a game. With cap restrictions it's really hard to spend all your money at one spot and still surround them with top shelf talent. One guy can't win games all by himself.
    Appyhawk
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  • Yeah from a fan perspective, it'd be cool if Russell shorted himself and took like 20 million a season. But let's face it, no QB other than Brady has done that (and he has a supermodel wife who has more money than him). Even Carson Wentz, who was terrible last year, is going to count 31 million against the cap next year. If some of you guys want another QB and don't hit a home run in the draft...you basically HAVE to overpay to get someone who is even average to good. That's the reality.
    A_Biased_Fan
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  • A_Biased_Fan wrote:Yeah from a fan perspective, it'd be cool if Russell shorted himself and took like 20 million a season. But let's face it, no QB other than Brady has done that (and he has a supermodel wife who has more money than him). Even Carson Wentz, who was terrible last year, is going to count 31 million against the cap next year. If some of you guys want another QB and don't hit a home run in the draft...you basically HAVE to overpay to get someone who is even average to good. That's the reality.

    That's actually not a bad idea. If these QBs who think they deserve top money with every new contract were actually serious about wanting their team to win, perhaps they might consider signing for half the going rate.

    Clearly RW needs an offensive line that can legitimately protect him while he does his magic. Maybe he and the Hawks should restructure his deal so they can afford those guys.
    Somos doces
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  • You nailed it.

    That is exactly why he wants out.

    Because his head coach is making him look like a failure by godawful gameplans that barely even use Wilson until we are down by several TDs in any playoff game.

    And when he does use him, it is to try to make him look like the 2nd coming of Rex Grossman.

    The problem is clearly that Wilson is tired of Pete's ish.

    He is tired of Pete failing to adjust, failing to strategize, failing to use even basic tactics in a game based on this.

    He is tired of Pete walking in with the same unimaginative gameplan, failing to hold his coordinators accountable, and attempting to wedge a 1990s or even 1970s gameplan into a game where the rules are into the 2000s.

    Wilson has played the good soldier for a while, and that gets him a legacy as a playoff loser. Because without the LOB, Carroll is a playoff loser as almost any coach will outcoach him on gameday. When the rosters are more evenly matched, being a far worse gameday coach has consequences.

    And Wilson is clearly tired of it. Don't blame him.

    We will see what he says on Ellen but I imagine he will keep poking the Bear until Carroll loses it or bows to Wilson's demands. And Carroll should bow down, because Wilson has been carrying him since that 2nd SB loss.
    TwistedHusky
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  • Don't blame Wilson or any other player for what they make.

    It starts with the League and the Union and TV contracts with all that money.

    Think about how much the players get and yet ownership still gets what 70 percent of the take from the revenue. I know that has been changed a bit, and the ownership revenue shares also on a lot of items.

    But the cap and balance is how they developed the system.

    Now the Monster has been created and they can't control the bidding wars between owners.
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  • Said this on his first contract. Glorified game manger with deep ball accuracy. Once teams switched to 2-deep safety look he's just a game manager. Not going to move the ball down the field consistently with just his arm. First SB win swooed all the fans into thinking he was Elite.
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  • Spin Doctor wrote:Don't you think our head coach played a huge part in that? Do you think that was all on Wilson? Is it Russell Wilson that calls an extremely conservative offense until the final hour in the 4th quarter? Is it Russell Wilson that makes won't get the play call in until the final second so he can't make any adjustments? Pete Carroll needs to go, and he's needed to go for awhile now. Do you know how many head coaches have a better records in the playoffs since 2015 than Pete Carroll? The number is quite extensive and that is including McCarthy.

    Bottom of the line here, Carroll should only have two wins in the playoffs since our last Super Bowl run. Those two wins were against a 40+ year old McCown who got injured part way through the game, and a Matthew Stafford with a sprained ankle and messed up throwing hand. A lot of our woes come from his conservative coaching style in the postseason, not Wilson.

    Fire Pete Carroll, he's washed up, he's Marty Schottenheimer at this point. If it's between Wilson and Carroll, i'm choosing Wilson 10 times out of 10.


    Is it RW who couldn't beat the 2-deep safety look? YES...................
    RCATES
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  • honestly, maybe the best roster-management tactic is to cycle through qbs... give them their start, and then dump them when it's contract time... devise a way to win without the emphasis on a 'franchise qb'... think outside of the box... just keep drafting guys who can throw the bomb and run the read option, then build up the rushing attack and the defense...

    in retrospect, a couple of events during russell's tenure seem to have been big deals. of course, there was the 2015 super bowl, and that could have been avoided by keeping browner. browner was the heart of the defense... not the greatest corner, but psychologically an intimidator...

    also, there was the thing with golden tate... if tate isn't chased out of town, maybe things are different...

    anyway, maybe there is a better way than 'franchise qb'... 'franchise qb' is the conventional wisdom... time to think outside the box... that's how pete won in the first place...

    honestly, maybe never sign anyone to a huge contract at any position... spread the money out over the entire roster... and just win, baby
    mrblitz
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  • In theory, drafting QBs good enough to win championships in their first few years and dumping them before the payday would be great, but it took us how long to draft one guy like that? In reality, you're not going to find a guy like that multiple times, especially if you're winning and drafting in the back half.

    Not to mention you run into QBs on the second half of their rookie deal wanting out since they know no payday is coming from their team.

    It's an "in a perfect world and everything goes exactly right for you" approach that I don't think can be realistically implemented or relied upon.
    pinksheets
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:You nailed it.

    That is exactly why he wants out.

    Because his head coach is making him look like a failure by godawful gameplans that barely even use Wilson until we are down by several TDs in any playoff game.

    And when he does use him, it is to try to make him look like the 2nd coming of Rex Grossman.

    The problem is clearly that Wilson is tired of Pete's ish.

    He is tired of Pete failing to adjust, failing to strategize, failing to use even basic tactics in a game based on this.

    He is tired of Pete walking in with the same unimaginative gameplan, failing to hold his coordinators accountable, and attempting to wedge a 1990s or even 1970s gameplan into a game where the rules are into the 2000s.

    Wilson has played the good soldier for a while, and that gets him a legacy as a playoff loser. Because without the LOB, Carroll is a playoff loser as almost any coach will outcoach him on gameday. When the rosters are more evenly matched, being a far worse gameday coach has consequences.

    And Wilson is clearly tired of it. Don't blame him.

    We will see what he says on Ellen but I imagine he will keep poking the Bear until Carroll loses it or bows to Wilson's demands. And Carroll should bow down, because Wilson has been carrying him since that 2nd SB loss.

    Do you think the FO sees Russell as a QB that can carry the load or a QB that needs a running game and really solid D to get it done? I think that is where the disconnect is between the two camps. All of this other talk about O-line and sacks or protection is just noise. The real issue is Russell sees himself one way and the Seahawks see him another way.
    OrangeGravy
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  • RCATES wrote:Said this on his first contract. Glorified game manger with deep ball accuracy. Once teams switched to 2-deep safety look he's just a game manager. Not going to move the ball down the field consistently with just his arm. First SB win swooed all the fans into thinking he was Elite.


    So you are saying that it took teams 9 years to figure out Wilson couldn't play against 2 deep safeties?

    That seems like something you'd figure out week 6. Clearly we need far better DC's in this league if that was the case.

    It's the gameplan that beats 2 deep safeties, not the QB. If teams are going to play a light box, you need to be able to take advantage of that with screens, running plays and some TE throws. I can't recall us using TE's or screens to any significant degree and that's not on the QB.

    There is a reason Schotty was fired. He couldn't adapt to the 2 deep safety looks because his offense is too rudimentary. Pete Ball wasn't the problem, Marty Ball was.
    Mad Dog
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  • Mad Dog wrote:
    RCATES wrote:Said this on his first contract. Glorified game manger with deep ball accuracy. Once teams switched to 2-deep safety look he's just a game manager. Not going to move the ball down the field consistently with just his arm. First SB win swooed all the fans into thinking he was Elite.


    So you are saying that it took teams 9 years to figure out Wilson couldn't play against 2 deep safeties?

    That seems like something you'd figure out week 6. Clearly we need far better DC's in this league if that was the case.

    It's the gameplan that beats 2 deep safeties, not the QB. If teams are going to play a light box, you need to be able to take advantage of that with screens, running plays and some TE throws. I can't recall us using TE's or screens to any significant degree and that's not on the QB.

    There is a reason Schotty was fired. He couldn't adapt to the 2 deep safety looks because his offense is too rudimentary. Pete Ball wasn't the problem, Marty Ball was.


    Don’t believe this at all. Couldn’t adjust? His offense was torching defenses. I’m waiting for the statement where Pete ordered him to ...you know....play Pete Ball. Couple of interceptions and instant philosophy reversal.

    Schotty would’ve thrown short routes, up the middle...RW is by far capable of doing this as well.

    There’s a chance you’re right ofc. But if I had to bet money, this demise falls on Pete.
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  • Orange,

    I think the fact the organization has not made a single supporting statement or even an interview 'we are committed to working with Russell to make this work for both side' type of non-statement...tells you all there is to know.

    The organization is doing nothing to show their support. The silence is actually deafening.

    Which means someone is being petty and emotional, likely on both sides at this point, but it means the chance at resolution is likely nil.

    Only Pete Carroll could be short sighted enough not to realize that he is going to put himself in a circumstance where he has to take a 20M-30M cap hit because he refused to at least give the illusion of kowtowing to his star QB.
    TwistedHusky
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:Orange,

    I think the fact the organization has not made a single supporting statement or even an interview 'we are committed to working with Russell to make this work for both side' type of non-statement...tells you all there is to know.

    The organization is doing nothing to show their support. The silence is actually deafening.

    Which means someone is being petty and emotional, likely on both sides at this point, but it means the chance at resolution is likely nil.

    Only Pete Carroll could be short sighted enough not to realize that he is going to put himself in a circumstance where he has to take a 20M-30M cap hit because he refused to at least give the illusion of kowtowing to his star QB.


    Maybe or maybe giving the illusion won't change anything other than fan sentiment one way or another. I suspect the "team" is trying to figure out if this salvageable or not. If they talked to Russ's people and he wants out, why would they say anything until they've secured the most favorable exit plan they can? If it is salvageable and they don't put anything out there soon, I agree they might have reached their line. I find it interesting.

    I think they put themselves in a bad spot. They should've drove a hard bargain on Russ with the extension and traded him for a haul if wouldn't relent. I understand it would've been a tough move to talk yourself into, but I don't think Russ can maintain that high level of play consistently enough throughout a season to hand the keys over to him completely like you would Brady or Peyton. I don't think going to another situation would magically cure any of the apparent limitations we've seen in his game while here. I think his issues are his. They won't be fixed by scheme or approach significantly enough to put Russ permanently in that room with Brady/Peyton. I still Russell's best situation is strong running game and let him hit the shots. He wants to be Mahomes and that's fine too. It's his career, but he's not gonna get that here.
    OrangeGravy
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  • And pete carroll was the coach this whole time. What does that say about pete Carroll? Russell Wilson does his job, pete carroll should have done his. 2014 bowl was lost because of PETE CARROLLS play call, and yall are still being cowards too afraid to call pete out.
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  • Tony Dungy had the Tampa Two when he coached, it was a great defense, the Bucs and then later with the Colts kicked ass until the playoffs.

    There were better QB's and OC's I think then that were allowed to do their thing. Teams used the WCO and guys like Manning moved the ball at will because of of screens, underneath routes and spreading the field and running.

    Teams were patient and said ok we will take 5, 8, 10, 15 yards, YAC and broken tackles were the break away TD's.

    Brady and the Bucs were patient and played two deep on defense, why they looked so dominant.

    Chiefs did not adjust and were impatient wanting it deep and then behind not running the ball.

    Sound familiar?
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  • Mad Dog wrote:
    RCATES wrote:Said this on his first contract. Glorified game manger with deep ball accuracy. Once teams switched to 2-deep safety look he's just a game manager. Not going to move the ball down the field consistently with just his arm. First SB win swooed all the fans into thinking he was Elite.


    So you are saying that it took teams 9 years to figure out Wilson couldn't play against 2 deep safeties?

    That seems like something you'd figure out week 6. Clearly we need far better DC's in this league if that was the case.

    It's the gameplan that beats 2 deep safeties, not the QB. If teams are going to play a light box, you need to be able to take advantage of that with screens, running plays and some TE throws. I can't recall us using TE's or screens to any significant degree and that's not on the QB.

    There is a reason Schotty was fired. He couldn't adapt to the 2 deep safety looks because his offense is too rudimentary. Pete Ball wasn't the problem, Marty Ball was.

    You cannot tell me Russ doesn't have pass options on every play
    besides just deep..I see the vids people post showing plenty of
    open WR's and Russ will not see them because?????
    IndyHawk
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  • IndyHawk wrote:
    Mad Dog wrote:
    RCATES wrote:Said this on his first contract. Glorified game manger with deep ball accuracy. Once teams switched to 2-deep safety look he's just a game manager. Not going to move the ball down the field consistently with just his arm. First SB win swooed all the fans into thinking he was Elite.


    So you are saying that it took teams 9 years to figure out Wilson couldn't play against 2 deep safeties?

    That seems like something you'd figure out week 6. Clearly we need far better DC's in this league if that was the case.

    It's the gameplan that beats 2 deep safeties, not the QB. If teams are going to play a light box, you need to be able to take advantage of that with screens, running plays and some TE throws. I can't recall us using TE's or screens to any significant degree and that's not on the QB.

    There is a reason Schotty was fired. He couldn't adapt to the 2 deep safety looks because his offense is too rudimentary. Pete Ball wasn't the problem, Marty Ball was.

    You cannot tell me Russ doesn't have pass options on every play
    besides just deep..I see the vids people post showing plenty of
    open WR's and Russ will not see them because?????


    There are a couple answers and on any given play they may both be true.

    Russ can't see across the field because he is short. He should know where Receivers will be on the filed to glance and see them however so I don't buy this as a regular occurrence.

    Russ refuses to concede a play and wants chunk or Pete wants Chunk plays and not take what is given.

    This is where I am settling at.

    Other wise a quicker passing game would have evolved whether it was 3 step drops or designed roll out and passing quickly for a RAC gain.
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  • A_Biased_Fan wrote:Yeah from a fan perspective, it'd be cool if Russell shorted himself and took like 20 million a season. But let's face it, no QB other than Brady has done that (and he has a supermodel wife who has more money than him). Even Carson Wentz, who was terrible last year, is going to count 31 million against the cap next year. If some of you guys want another QB and don't hit a home run in the draft...you basically HAVE to overpay to get someone who is even average to good. That's the reality.



    The Seattle Times had an article about the percentage of the cap that QBs are using that was pretty interesting. This was published back when Russell signed his current contract.

    But now, after his famous midnight “hey Seattle, we got a deal’’ contract agreement with the Seahawks, Wilson is set to take up 13.36% of the team’s cap this season (2019), more than any QB of any team that has won a Super Bowl since 1994.

    The current high is Steve Young’s 13.1% with the 49ers in 1994, the year the cap was first instituted (Brady took up 12.21% of the Patriots’ cap last season).

    Wilson rises to 16.13% next season (2020) before then dropping to 13.26% and 11.40% in 2021 and 2022, respectively (all numbers from Spotrac.com and OvertheCap.com, and also all based on projections of the cap going forward).
    (bolding is mine)

    Image

    So in 2019 he was already paid more (in terms of cap percentage) than any SB winning QB ever, and then increased that number even more in 2020. By comparison, Tom Brady made 12.2% of the Tampa Bay cap this year.

    This is always going to be an issue in a salary cap era. If Russell is getting these dollars partly because his escapability lets him make do with a lower paid and less skilled O-line, but he's aged out of that ability, where is he left? Those cap dollars have to come from somewhere - where would he prefer they be taken from? Bobby Wagner?

    Basically, Wilson wants to have his cake and eat it too. When you negotiate with the goal of being the highest paid QB in the game, the team has to cut costs other places to make that happen. That reduces the chances of getting to the Super Bowl.


    Edit: The cap numbers I quoted above came from two different sources, Wilson's from the Times and Brady's from overcap.com. Wilson's numbers for the past couple of years from overcap: 2019 - 13.8%, 2020 - 15.5%, 2021 - 17.6%. Brady's historical numbers are here. Note that with the patriots, Brady was often below or at 10% of the cap.
    Torc
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  • The statistics are interesting but irrelevant. Whether Wilson can make another SuperBowl is another argument. Because Wilson at least wants the chance to compete for it without one hand tied behind his back.

    Carroll's archaic offense is enough to overcome. But since he is supposedly at least supposed to make it up with great defense? When the defense is average or below, he isn't making up for the incredible waste of effectiveness he is in almost every other area as a coach.

    And it isn't about SuperBowls specifically.

    The issue is playoff legacy not just SuperBowls.

    Pete Carroll is destroying Wilson's success % in the playoffs with Pete's own idiocy.

    He is locked into a style and philosophy that no longer works or even matters.

    All it does is hold his own QB back.

    And guess what?

    When you pay your QB 1/5 of your cap, and make your entire franchise dependent on his success? Then you have no choice but to march to his tune. Period. The QB now gets a seat at the table, gets a vote, and gets to make decisions.

    And the amusing thing is it won't matter.

    Wilson now knows the power he holds. And he will exercise it. You can like it and reap the benefits. Or disdain it, resist it, and wallow in failure. Because hitching your wagon to Carroll is hitching your wagon to fading effectiveness, outdated philosophy, if not creeping senility.

    Carroll had one value. He develops talent and he makes that talent love him. The moment the greatest players he has developed or enabled no longer will suffer him? He has no value.
    TwistedHusky
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  • Since the last 26 seasons show a pattern, I would not dismiss it as irrelevant.

    Every year it feels like the Seahawks are a piece or two away from the super bowl. Very good, not excellent. The question has always been how to get over the hump and bring home another championship.
    nwHawk
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  • TwistedHusky wrote:The statistics are interesting but irrelevant. Whether Wilson can make another SuperBowl is another argument. Because Wilson at least wants the chance to compete for it without one hand tied behind his back.

    Carroll's archaic offense is enough to overcome. But since he is supposedly at least supposed to make it up with great defense? When the defense is average or below, he isn't making up for the incredible waste of effectiveness he is in almost every other area as a coach.

    And it isn't about SuperBowls specifically.

    The issue is playoff legacy not just SuperBowls.

    Pete Carroll is destroying Wilson's success % in the playoffs with Pete's own idiocy.

    He is locked into a style and philosophy that no longer works or even matters.

    All it does is hold his own QB back.

    And guess what?

    When you pay your QB 1/5 of your cap, and make your entire franchise dependent on his success? Then you have no choice but to march to his tune. Period. The QB now gets a seat at the table, gets a vote, and gets to make decisions.

    And the amusing thing is it won't matter.

    Wilson now knows the power he holds. And he will exercise it. You can like it and reap the benefits. Or disdain it, resist it, and wallow in failure. Because hitching your wagon to Carroll is hitching your wagon to fading effectiveness, outdated philosophy, if not creeping senility.

    Carroll had one value. He develops talent and he makes that talent love him. The moment the greatest players he has developed or enabled no longer will suffer him? He has no value.


    You can like it and reap the benefits

    Not guaranteed to reap benefits, but I agree that the mistake they made was paying him that much money. They should've traded him then.
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