Do Not Sell My Personal Information

How many years after Wilson leaves is Carroll still coach?

The Original Seattle Seahawks Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute for Seahawks Talk, News, Rumors, Trades, and Analytics. LANGUAGE: PG-13
  • The FO had to choose between Wilson and Carroll.

    It is looking suspiciously like Carroll is the FO making this decision.

    So in a decision to keep Wilson or keep Carroll, Carroll was going to win.

    So the question looms...

    Assuming the Wilson trade happens, (which might be later when the cap hit is lower but is more likely after the season)

    How long does Carroll remain coach before he steps down?

    He has a five-year contract. Assuming that next year Wilson probably plays for us this coming season - I predict two years.

    Whatever reset is coming probably happens after that.

    What is your read on how long he is here assuming we decided this is the horse we want to ride and will likely let Wilson go?
    TwistedHusky
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4917
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:48 pm


  • I predict one more season of RW and two more seasons of PC.

    BTW there seems to still be a lot of smoke out there about RW even after the Bears signed Dalton. It may be media BS but it has not gone away.
    JayhawkMike
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 784
    Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:06 pm


  • That is my read too.

    Pete faces a conundrum, his entire legacy in the NFL, if not most of his success...is dependent on Russell Wilson.

    The moment Wilson is gone, so does Pete's success and probably a good portion of his legacy as his flaws get exposed.

    Without the LOB, Pete's system really does not work.

    What people overlook is that his system also doesn't work without a tremendously mobile, incredibly efficient QB, that can produce under pressure.

    The only guy I can think of that is sort of a really poor man's Wilson is Minshew. (If the Bears are smart they get him - with that defense they would be a better playoff team than we have been the past few years.)

    Pete loves to run the ball to open up those long passes. But forget that when the runs fail, you end up having your QB make their 1st throws on the drive as 3rd and longs where the entire defense knows you are passing. There is no chance to miss the throw - you make a mistake and the drive is over.

    And with your OL consisting of former UPS deliverymen, crappy green as grass UDFAs, and a few vets that are getting their AARP cards in the mail - you also need to do this with little or no protection.

    Even in Wilson's first year, he might have been a 'game manager' but when we needed to covert a crucial 3rd and 8, he delivered. And it kept drives alive.

    You cannot just plug anyone into that system. They have to be able to produce under pressure with very few throws given to them.
    Not sure I see many college QBs that can do that, maybe Zach Wilson who goes too early for us to get.

    PeteBall barely uses the QB but when it does, the QB has to be incredibly efficient and do this under pressure. 'Bus Drivers' and typical game manager QBs won't work. Our defense won't be good enough. We still have to score on the drives we have.

    I don't think Pete's ego was going to let Wilson stay and Pete have to go (Even if kicked upstairs). But I think there is a good chance that once Wilson leaves Pete will end up having to leave a year or two later...just to avoid being exposed as a coach that really rode Wilson's coattails to victory much of the time.
    TwistedHusky
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4917
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:48 pm


  • Two years before he is run out of town and he quits. Jody Allen will sell in three.
    pittpnthrs
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2034
    Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 11:19 am


  • Since Russell Wilson will retire a Seahawk in 10 years, the question is more along the lines of how long will Russ be a Seahawk after PC leaves?
    oldhawkfan
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2630
    Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:06 pm
    Location: Spokane


  • I seem to be joining the consensus at about 2 years. 1 year of still having RW, we yet again go nowhere in the playoffs assuming we even make it, and Pete Carroll takes 1 more year thinking his stockpile of picks from the RW trade will build him 1 more chance at a superbowl run. And maybe that’d be possible if we strike gold like we did with the RW/Lynch/LOB triumvirate. But I ain’t gonna predict that.
    Hawaii-hawk
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 72
    Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:30 am


  • TwistedHusky wrote:The FO had to choose between Wilson and Carroll.

    It is looking suspiciously like Carroll is the FO making this decision.

    So in a decision to keep Wilson or keep Carroll, Carroll was going to win.

    So the question looms...

    Assuming the Wilson trade happens, (which might be later when the cap hit is lower but is more likely after the season)

    How long does Carroll remain coach before he steps down?

    He has a five-year contract. Assuming that next year Wilson probably plays for us this coming season - I predict two years.

    Whatever reset is coming probably happens after that.

    What is your read on how long he is here assuming we decided this is the horse we want to ride and will likely let Wilson go?



    A long list of strawmans here

    Also: didn’t Pete reportedly step in and nix the Russ trade?
    Hawkpower
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2910
    Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:53 am
    Location: Phoenix az


  • 1 year after Wilson leaves if he leaves before PC retires. No Wilson no winning no PC.
    John63
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4307
    Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:56 pm


  • oldhawkfan wrote:Since Russell Wilson will retire a Seahawk in 10 years, the question is more along the lines of how long will Russ be a Seahawk after PC leaves?


    I'm riding your train.
    Aros
    [[ .NET Godfather ]]
     
    Posts: 14963
    Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 1:58 am
    Location: Just 4 miles from Richard Sherman!


  • Is the sole purpose of this thread to create something to complain about now that we signed some free agents?
    Own The West
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 514
    Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:20 pm


  • Is the question a complaint?

    No.

    But if we are losing Wilson, which seems likely, it certainly makes sense to come to a realization on reasonable expectations.

    It appears the consensus is that Carroll cannot succeed without Wilson, and likely will not.

    So what is the timeline?

    Based on most of the projections, which seem reasonable, we would expect the Seahawks to reset (with the departure of Carroll) in 3 years. One of those 3 will likely be with Wilson. 2 without, and probably less pleasant.

    We then load back up on draft picks and hopefully continue to be a competitive team with a new coach after a moderate to worse dip during the tail end of the Carroll period.

    If we have to endure this, looking at where the light at the end of the tunnel is... feels reasonable.

    Hence the question, how long is Carroll here after Wilson leaves? (which is very likely at the end of this season)
    TwistedHusky
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4917
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:48 pm


  • Own The West, you absolutely nailed it.

    Wilson will be here long after Pete leaves.
    jammerhawk
    * NET Moderator *
     
    Posts: 7693
    Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:13 pm


  • I don't think that Wilson wants to be here and that's a problem. So sooner or later he won't be. With a disinterested ownership it would appear that Carroll is safe.

    The rest depends on what comes next. Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB. Seeing that play out without a 35M QB would be interesting (no, Jackson wasn't decent) as we have never really seen that. You would think the run game would improve and defense with more resources allocated to it.

    The outcome of that would determine how long Carroll stays and that scenario is so murky I'm not sure what it looks like.
    GaiusMarius
    NET Bench Warmer
     
    Posts: 30
    Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:28 pm


  • Again, you you have absolutely NO proof he doesn't want to be here. Until I hear it from him, I'm not buying it. Mad at Pete? Frustrated with the pathetic O Line? Sure, and justified.
    But again, more assumptions. He said ONE thing, and people go on and on and act like he's a 9 year complainer. Beyond hilarious. Believe what you want, none of us truly know. Until he is gone or traded, I'm not going to assume anything. I totally get that it's not all rosy, but my god, people act like they are at war. This whole off season has been nothing but speculation w/not a lot to prove what so many assume. Let it play out and see what happens after 2021. The media has people brainwashed. Some of it might be true, but not even close to how they portray it and/or WANT it to be. Even now, they still are clinging to hope, that isn't gonna' happen.
    IF he ever gets traded, then I'll believe he wanted to be gone. Especially since he has the no trade clause.
    SoulfishHawk
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 17274
    Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:59 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


  • Around and around we go. Weee

    They're winning the Superbowl this year, Pete will retire on a good note, Wilson will be our QB for the next decade, all will be good
    Jerhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3829
    Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:39 am
    Location: Spokane, WA


  • Who said that? Not me.
    I'm fully aware of the issues and things that need to change.
    SoulfishHawk
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 17274
    Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:59 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Who said that? Not me.
    I'm fully aware of the issues and things that need to change.


    I wasn't responding to your post. I was responding to the OP/thread.

    I'm back on the positivity train now, keep up! Superbowl champs!
    Jerhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3829
    Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:39 am
    Location: Spokane, WA


  • Aaaah, ok. Sorry, I'm just so trained to assume the worse on dot negative hahahaha
    Turns out I'm back to being positive. Though maybe a little more cautiously optimistic.

    :irishdrinkers:
    SoulfishHawk
    NET Pro Bowler
     
    Posts: 17274
    Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:59 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


  • GaiusMarius wrote: Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB.


    Honestly, I dont think it can. Especially at this point. Lets not forget how many times Russ has had to dip into his magic hat and become the hero in the 4th quarters. Merely decent QBs arent getting that done.

    I do feel that Wilson skips next season. The two reasons the Chicago deal didnt go down this season is the cap hit (less next year) and Carroll doesnt have a plan for a QB right now. What Chicago offered was enough and a deal like that will fly next season as Pete readies himself with some options.
    pittpnthrs
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2034
    Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 11:19 am


  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    GaiusMarius wrote: Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB.


    Honestly, I dont think it can. Especially at this point. Lets not forget how many times Russ has had to dip into his magic hat and become the hero in the 4th quarters. Merely decent QBs arent getting that done.

    I do feel that Wilson skips next season. The two reasons the Chicago deal didnt go down this season is the cap hit (less next year) and Carroll doesnt have a plan for a QB right now. What Chicago offered was enough and a deal like that will fly next season as Pete readies himself with some options.



    I'm not sure Wilson's production was elite in our Super Bowl year

    He was good, no doubt.

    But that team was not built around him
    Hawkpower
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2910
    Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:53 am
    Location: Phoenix az


  • GaiusMarius wrote:I don't think that Wilson wants to be here and that's a problem. So sooner or later he won't be. With a disinterested ownership it would appear that Carroll is safe.

    The rest depends on what comes next. Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB. Seeing that play out without a 35M QB would be interesting (no, Jackson wasn't decent) as we have never really seen that. You would think the run game would improve and defense with more resources allocated to it.

    The outcome of that would determine how long Carroll stays and that scenario is so murky I'm not sure what it looks like.



    Do you have actual proof of his system working with a decent but not great QB? The only success Pete Carroll has had in the NFL, is with Russell Wilson at QB!
    oldhawkfan
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2630
    Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:06 pm
    Location: Spokane


  • oldhawkfan wrote:
    GaiusMarius wrote:I don't think that Wilson wants to be here and that's a problem. So sooner or later he won't be. With a disinterested ownership it would appear that Carroll is safe.

    The rest depends on what comes next. Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB. Seeing that play out without a 35M QB would be interesting (no, Jackson wasn't decent) as we have never really seen that. You would think the run game would improve and defense with more resources allocated to it.

    The outcome of that would determine how long Carroll stays and that scenario is so murky I'm not sure what it looks like.



    Do you have actual proof of his system working with a decent but not great QB? The only success Pete Carroll has had in the NFL, is with Russell Wilson at QB!



    Wilson was asked to play a decent but not great role when they won the Super Bowl.

    That team was so dominant in other areas, they could have won it all with quite a few guys under center.
    Hawkpower
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2910
    Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:53 am
    Location: Phoenix az


  • I once thought that too. But if you go back you notice a number of great throws under pressure Wilson made to keep key drives alive.

    Still, does it matter?

    Likely a number of other QBs could win with the LOB and that DL/LB group. We don't have D that now though.

    Can any other QB win with Carroll's system, with his gameplanning, and this roster?

    You would be hard-pressed to find that.

    Especially a QB that could come back and win games because of this defense and our lack of urgency in the 1st halves.

    Maybe Mahomes, Allen, couple of others...but not many and most of the QBs you would need are top mobile QBs. The only guy that might be able to pull it off is now a Jags backup QB. Maybe if you got Gardner but otherwise no.
    TwistedHusky
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4917
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:48 pm


  • TwistedHusky wrote:I once thought that too. But if you go back you notice a number of great throws under pressure Wilson made to keep key drives alive.

    Still, does it matter?

    Likely a number of other QBs could win with the LOB and that DL/LB group. We don't have D that now though.

    Can any other QB win with Carroll's system, with his gameplanning, and this roster?

    You would be hard-pressed to find that.

    Especially a QB that could come back and win games because of this defense and our lack of urgency in the 1st halves.

    Maybe Mahomes, Allen, couple of others...but not many and most of the QBs you would need are top mobile QBs. The only guy that might be able to pull it off is now a Jags backup QB. Maybe if you got Gardner but otherwise no.



    The poster claimed Pete had never done it.

    I simply refuted it because he has
    Hawkpower
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2910
    Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:53 am
    Location: Phoenix az


  • Jody will sell to Bezos, he will let Wilson have more say in things. Wilson stays, Pete is retired in 2 years. Jeff pays McVay anything he wants, and he takes over as HC.
    CPHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3677
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:49 pm


  • Hawkpower wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:I once thought that too. But if you go back you notice a number of great throws under pressure Wilson made to keep key drives alive.

    Still, does it matter?

    Likely a number of other QBs could win with the LOB and that DL/LB group. We don't have D that now though.

    Can any other QB win with Carroll's system, with his gameplanning, and this roster?

    You would be hard-pressed to find that.

    Especially a QB that could come back and win games because of this defense and our lack of urgency in the 1st halves.

    Maybe Mahomes, Allen, couple of others...but not many and most of the QBs you would need are top mobile QBs. The only guy that might be able to pull it off is now a Jags backup QB. Maybe if you got Gardner but otherwise no.



    The poster claimed Pete had never done it.

    I simply refuted it because he has


    I’m still waiting for the proof that he has.
    oldhawkfan
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2630
    Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:06 pm
    Location: Spokane


  • oldhawkfan wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:I once thought that too. But if you go back you notice a number of great throws under pressure Wilson made to keep key drives alive.

    Still, does it matter?

    Likely a number of other QBs could win with the LOB and that DL/LB group. We don't have D that now though.

    Can any other QB win with Carroll's system, with his gameplanning, and this roster?

    You would be hard-pressed to find that.

    Especially a QB that could come back and win games because of this defense and our lack of urgency in the 1st halves.

    Maybe Mahomes, Allen, couple of others...but not many and most of the QBs you would need are top mobile QBs. The only guy that might be able to pull it off is now a Jags backup QB. Maybe if you got Gardner but otherwise no.



    The poster claimed Pete had never done it.

    I simply refuted it because he has


    I’m still waiting for the proof that he has.



    I gave you the proof

    You can choose to disagree if you would like ;)

    Cheers :irishdrinkers:
    Hawkpower
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2910
    Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:53 am
    Location: Phoenix az


  • oldhawkfan wrote:Since Russell Wilson will retire a Seahawk in 10 years, the question is more along the lines of how long will Russ be a Seahawk after PC leaves?

    LOL 10 years :laugh: :laugh:

    God, I hope not. We have about four seasons before he's late 2020 Roethlisberger.
    Rat
    * NET Cynic *
     
    Posts: 6461
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:42 pm
    Location: Grand Rapids, MI


  • Hawkpower wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:I once thought that too. But if you go back you notice a number of great throws under pressure Wilson made to keep key drives alive.

    Still, does it matter?

    Likely a number of other QBs could win with the LOB and that DL/LB group. We don't have D that now though.

    Can any other QB win with Carroll's system, with his gameplanning, and this roster?

    You would be hard-pressed to find that.

    Especially a QB that could come back and win games because of this defense and our lack of urgency in the 1st halves.

    Maybe Mahomes, Allen, couple of others...but not many and most of the QBs you would need are top mobile QBs. The only guy that might be able to pull it off is now a Jags backup QB. Maybe if you got Gardner but otherwise no.



    The poster claimed Pete had never done it.

    I simply refuted it because he has


    I’m still waiting for the proof that he has.



    I gave you the proof

    You can choose to disagree if you would like ;)

    Cheers :irishdrinkers:



    I said he never did it before he had Russell Wilson at QB. You have given no proof of any PC success without him.
    oldhawkfan
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2630
    Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:06 pm
    Location: Spokane


  • TwistedHusky wrote:Is the question a complaint?

    No.

    But if we are losing Wilson, which seems likely, it certainly makes sense to come to a realization on reasonable expectations.

    It appears the consensus is that Carroll cannot succeed without Wilson, and likely will not.

    So what is the timeline?

    Based on most of the projections, which seem reasonable, we would expect the Seahawks to reset (with the departure of Carroll) in 3 years. One of those 3 will likely be with Wilson. 2 without, and probably less pleasant.

    We then load back up on draft picks and hopefully continue to be a competitive team with a new coach after a moderate to worse dip during the tail end of the Carroll period.

    If we have to endure this, looking at where the light at the end of the tunnel is... feels reasonable.

    Hence the question, how long is Carroll here after Wilson leaves? (which is very likely at the end of this season)

    A consensus of whom? A group of fans on a forum that might make up 10% of the fanbase? I keep coming back to all of these other FO/Coach combinations that everyone lusts after and apparently know how to win in today's NFL, but for some reason have yet actually WIN in todays NFL at the rate that Seattle still wins in today's NFL.
    OrangeGravy
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 572
    Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:47 pm


  • oldhawkfan wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:

    The poster claimed Pete had never done it.

    I simply refuted it because he has


    I’m still waiting for the proof that he has.



    I gave you the proof

    You can choose to disagree if you would like ;)

    Cheers :irishdrinkers:



    I said he never did it before he had Russell Wilson at QB. You have given no proof of any PC success without him.



    Actually, you said he never did it with a "decent but not great QB"

    We now know Russ is more than this, but (as I have said 3 times now) the limited role he played in the Super Bowl year could have been easily replicated by a decent but not great QB because the rest of the team was SO GOOD.

    A Kirk Cousins/Ryan Tannehill type absolutely gets Pete and the hawks a Super Bowl that year.

    Russ did not play the role of a great QB that year. Not because he couldnt, but because he wasnt asked to be
    Hawkpower
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2910
    Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:53 am
    Location: Phoenix az


  • OrangeGravy wrote:
    TwistedHusky wrote:Is the question a complaint?

    No.

    But if we are losing Wilson, which seems likely, it certainly makes sense to come to a realization on reasonable expectations.

    It appears the consensus is that Carroll cannot succeed without Wilson, and likely will not.

    So what is the timeline?

    Based on most of the projections, which seem reasonable, we would expect the Seahawks to reset (with the departure of Carroll) in 3 years. One of those 3 will likely be with Wilson. 2 without, and probably less pleasant.

    We then load back up on draft picks and hopefully continue to be a competitive team with a new coach after a moderate to worse dip during the tail end of the Carroll period.

    If we have to endure this, looking at where the light at the end of the tunnel is... feels reasonable.

    Hence the question, how long is Carroll here after Wilson leaves? (which is very likely at the end of this season)

    A consensus of whom? A group of fans on a forum that might make up 10% of the fanbase? I keep coming back to all of these other FO/Coach combinations that everyone lusts after and apparently know how to win in today's NFL, but for some reason have yet actually WIN in todays NFL at the rate that Seattle still wins in today's NFL.



    Great point.

    Twisted and others will then lament the lack of playoff success, but then pine after guys that have similar if not worse playoff records

    This is not to excuse or pacify first round losses...we all want more than what we've seen recently, its just to offer some much needed perspective that we all lose from time to time :)
    Hawkpower
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2910
    Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:53 am
    Location: Phoenix az


  • Hawkpower wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    GaiusMarius wrote: Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB.


    Honestly, I dont think it can. Especially at this point. Lets not forget how many times Russ has had to dip into his magic hat and become the hero in the 4th quarters. Merely decent QBs arent getting that done.

    I do feel that Wilson skips next season. The two reasons the Chicago deal didnt go down this season is the cap hit (less next year) and Carroll doesnt have a plan for a QB right now. What Chicago offered was enough and a deal like that will fly next season as Pete readies himself with some options.



    I'm not sure Wilson's production was elite in our Super Bowl year

    He was good, no doubt.

    But that team was not built around him


    So your expecting Pete to form another historic defense and to obtain a RB of Lynch's caliber along the way? Is that your expectations? When exactly is this going to start? Pete doesnt have those things now and is never going to get them again, thus great QB play has been the only thing keeping this team afloat.
    pittpnthrs
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2034
    Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 11:19 am


  • pittpnthrs wrote:
    Hawkpower wrote:
    pittpnthrs wrote:
    GaiusMarius wrote: Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB.


    Honestly, I dont think it can. Especially at this point. Lets not forget how many times Russ has had to dip into his magic hat and become the hero in the 4th quarters. Merely decent QBs arent getting that done.

    I do feel that Wilson skips next season. The two reasons the Chicago deal didnt go down this season is the cap hit (less next year) and Carroll doesnt have a plan for a QB right now. What Chicago offered was enough and a deal like that will fly next season as Pete readies himself with some options.



    I'm not sure Wilson's production was elite in our Super Bowl year

    He was good, no doubt.

    But that team was not built around him


    So your expecting Pete to form another historic defense and to obtain a RB of Lynch's caliber along the way? Is that your expectations? When exactly is this going to start? Pete doesnt have those things now and is never going to get them again, thus great QB play has been the only thing keeping this team afloat.



    No, I'm not expecting that. I was simply responding to point made about QB play.

    Besides, if we are defining "Pete's System" as an elite defense and a Lynch caliber RB, we wouldnt be able to do that with a QB making 30 million plus.

    The Seahawks/Pete made a choice to build around RW instead, so that's where they are now. Better or worse.
    Hawkpower
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2910
    Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:53 am
    Location: Phoenix az


  • There was a thread on here from 2017 that was back on the front page recently.

    It was pretty clear then what was happening. But so many seemed so sure Pete would work his magic again.

    There was no magic. It went down exactly as we feared with a few different wrinkles.

    The issues then, became the issues later, that cause the issues today.

    Pete has a team rife with HOF players, one of which is the QB we are in danger of losing.

    We are probably going to circle back to this thread in a few years, and everything that was clear and evident now will have transpired (roughly).

    Pete isn't getting another team rife with HOF players.

    And he cannot even win that well with what is one of the better rosters over the past 10 years (according to that chart). Certainly not in the playoffs.

    Wishful thinking does not work. He is over 70. He isn't changing.

    Because Pete rarely changes, neither does the outcome. Sorry.

    It's Ok. I've come to terms with the ride being over.

    Was pissed off that Pete would choose himself over the future of this club, but the damage is pretty much done. Quality FAs are going to avoid this place. We are playing out the string. Wilson wants to win in the playoffs and he wants to be in the MVP conversations at the end of the year. Neither will ever happen under Pete and Wilson probably knows this more than us. If is clear to the casual fan, it is clear to someone with a lifetime of football under their belt.

    It seems tremendously unlikely that Pete lasts more than 2 years without Wilson. And it would take an incredible run in the playoffs to keep him here. Possible but unlikely. We will see.

    But I suspect, just like that 2017 thread - some of the same voices pointing out the problems then, will probably end up looking correct again. Which sucks but appears to how it goes right now.
    TwistedHusky
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4917
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:48 pm


  • TwistedHusky wrote:There was a thread on here from 2017 that was back on the front page recently.

    It was pretty clear then what was happening. But so many seemed so sure Pete would work his magic again.

    There was no magic. It went down exactly as we feared with a few different wrinkles.

    The issues then, became the issues later, that cause the issues today.

    Pete has a team rife with HOF players, one of which is the QB we are in danger of losing.

    We are probably going to circle back to this thread in a few years, and everything that was clear and evident now will have transpired (roughly).

    Pete isn't getting another team rife with HOF players.

    And he cannot even win that well with what is one of the better rosters over the past 10 years (according to that chart). Certainly not in the playoffs.

    Wishful thinking does not work. He is over 70. He isn't changing.

    Because Pete rarely changes, neither does the outcome. Sorry.

    It's Ok. I've come to terms with the ride being over.

    Was pissed off that Pete would choose himself over the future of this club, but the damage is pretty much done. Quality FAs are going to avoid this place. We are playing out the string. Wilson wants to win in the playoffs and he wants to be in the MVP conversations at the end of the year. Neither will ever happen under Pete and Wilson probably knows this more than us. If is clear to the casual fan, it is clear to someone with a lifetime of football under their belt.

    It seems tremendously unlikely that Pete lasts more than 2 years without Wilson. And it would take an incredible run in the playoffs to keep him here. Possible but unlikely. We will see.

    But I suspect, just like that 2017 thread - some of the same voices pointing out the problems then, will probably end up looking correct again. Which sucks but appears to how it goes right now.



    Someone could also spin it that when Pete's teams center around defense and a bruising running game, they win in the playoffs

    Pete's teams that have centered around an expensive QB still win 10-12 games a year, but havent fared so well in the playoffs

    Probably too simple an argument, but no more simplistic than the one you continue to make on a daily basis

    Both Pete and Russ have shown to be great in some areas. Both have significant flaws.

    Its not either or. They both get credit and blame.
    Hawkpower
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2910
    Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:53 am
    Location: Phoenix az


  • If no post season or an early outage in post season again , they are both gone at the same time . IMO
    xray
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4540
    Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:29 am
    Location: AZ


  • One for Russ, and 2-3 years for Pete if we get another playoff season.

    If we miss playoffs, I think Russ is gone in 2022 and PC/JS will then try bringing in a bridge QB while making a draft offer on one in mid-round.
    SantaClaraHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 8490
    Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:17 am


  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:One for Russ, and 2-3 years for Pete if we get another playoff season.

    If we miss playoffs, I think Russ is gone in 2022 and PC/JS will then try bringing in a bridge QB while making a draft offer on one in mid-round.


    If Pete is planning to coach in his 80s this might be the plan. What part of franchise QBs don’t grow on trees is so difficult for people to understand? Look at the teams across the league that have been trying to find a franchise QB for years and in some cases decades. In the 23 years since John Elway retired, the Broncos have had one other franchise level QB and that was Peyton Manning on his last legs. It could be a long time before they find another. I’m not ready to step back into that kind of fandom where year in and year out you hope the QB can at least be serviceable. Been there done that. I love the fact that my favorite team doesn’t have to worry about who the QB is and relish that every single game he has the ability to bring them a win if they are behind. I haven’t felt like they were out of maybe a handful of games total since Russell has been the Seahawks QB.
    oldhawkfan
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2630
    Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:06 pm
    Location: Spokane


  • Hawkpower wrote:The Seahawks/Pete made a choice to build around RW instead, so that's where they are now. Better or worse.


    I see you dont understand that the LOB and Lynch combination was a once in a lifetime deal. Carroll had the inside scoop on the college classes coming out the first few seasons he was here. That is why a lot of swings were a homerun on some of the later picks. Unfortunately, he no longer has that inside knowledge, but he still swings for the fences. That equates to passing on obvious talent and taking unnecessary chances (aka Pete being cute). Its no wonder the defense went from one of the best to mediocre at best.

    Bottom line that you are missing - Pete had no choice but to build around Wilson because he is incapable of building a great defense anymore, let alone with the addition of a great RB. Without RW, this team would have been a 4 to 6 win team the past 5 or so years.
    pittpnthrs
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2034
    Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 11:19 am


  • We should have pushed that LOB+Lynch version for 1-2 years before going all in on Wilson.

    That was the error.

    The moment we traded Unger, Lynch was gone. He stayed one more year but for the most part peeling off his blocking stripped a lot of his drive. Understandable, actually.

    Trading for the TE/WR hybrid then trying to use him as a blocking TE was the start of this.

    The 2nd error was pissing off Kam. We eventually paid Kam anyway but him holding out hurt us that year. The moment the LOB realized they had to carry the load but were not going to be the focus - they started chirping. Rightfully so actually.

    Both issues would have been non-issues if we had stuck to what we were.

    Wilson was worth betting on, maybe with a different coach though. Betting on going all offense with a defensive coach was a strategic error.

    That is water under the bridge though.

    The issue is that Carroll can win focusing on defense WHEN HE HAS 4-5 HOF players in his defense and a few other top 5-7 at their position players.

    But he isn't even good at defense now. So where is the upside?

    We have to hope that betting on our rapidly declining in effectiveness HC has one, because we have this one year to make the playoffs in a more difficult division as our only chance to keep Wilson. Even then, not sure that chance is great.
    TwistedHusky
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4917
    Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:48 pm


  • oldhawkfan wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:One for Russ, and 2-3 years for Pete if we get another playoff season.

    If we miss playoffs, I think Russ is gone in 2022 and PC/JS will then try bringing in a bridge QB while making a draft offer on one in mid-round.


    If Pete is planning to coach in his 80s this might be the plan. What part of franchise QBs don’t grow on trees is so difficult for people to understand? Look at the teams across the league that have been trying to find a franchise QB for years and in some cases decades. In the 23 years since John Elway retired, the Broncos have had one other franchise level QB and that was Peyton Manning on his last legs. It could be a long time before they find another. I’m not ready to step back into that kind of fandom where year in and year out you hope the QB can at least be serviceable. Been there done that. I love the fact that my favorite team doesn’t have to worry about who the QB is and relish that every single game he has the ability to bring them a win if they are behind. I haven’t felt like they were out of maybe a handful of games total since Russell has been the Seahawks QB.


    Pete's going down Belichick Avenue on this QB situation. Sad but true, he is. Even if we get a top 5 QB in the draft if Russ leaves early and a Mariota/Carr/Fitzmagic type to be the bridge, that's usually a situation that results in losing more games than you win.

    Pete and Russ' interest in present day however remains shared survival though.

    What do you think Pete should do? Give Russ more leash, more public say, and let him cook. If it doesn't go well, both are done rather quickly, but that's the same outcome with PeteBall, which we have already tried.
    SantaClaraHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 8490
    Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:17 am


  • oldhawkfan wrote:Since Russell Wilson will retire a Seahawk in 10 years, the question is more along the lines of how long will Russ be a Seahawk after PC leaves?

    :177692: He's not making it to ten more years cowboy..
    He's far from Tom Brady as can be.
    I know all his fans don't want to see or hear it but he is
    getting old fast.
    IndyHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 5995
    Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:42 pm


  • IndyHawk wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:Since Russell Wilson will retire a Seahawk in 10 years, the question is more along the lines of how long will Russ be a Seahawk after PC leaves?

    :177692: He's not making it to ten more years cowboy..
    He's far from Tom Brady as can be.
    I know all his fans don't want to see or hear it but he is
    getting old fast.



    russell wilson is the better player and never missed a game. why cant he make it 10 years?
    Tinamedina
    NET Practice Squad
     
    Posts: 50
    Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:58 am


  • Tinamedina wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:Since Russell Wilson will retire a Seahawk in 10 years, the question is more along the lines of how long will Russ be a Seahawk after PC leaves?

    :177692: He's not making it to ten more years cowboy..
    He's far from Tom Brady as can be.
    I know all his fans don't want to see or hear it but he is
    getting old fast.



    russell wilson is the better player and never missed a game. why cant he make it 10 years?


    Only two players in recent years have been not complete trash by 40, and they (Brady and Favre) were protected much better in their younger seasons than Russ. And there is no precedent for a QB who's legs are such a big part of their game being an effective player that far into their careers.

    Yeah, Russ has made a career of defying the odds, so I won't say never, but I'd be really, really surprised. I think he has like 3-4 elite years left, then a season or two as a league average kind of guy before basically being what Roethlisberger is now.
    Rat
    * NET Cynic *
     
    Posts: 6461
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:42 pm
    Location: Grand Rapids, MI


  • TwistedHusky wrote:We should have pushed that LOB+Lynch version for 1-2 years before going all in on Wilson.

    That was the error.

    The moment we traded Unger, Lynch was gone. He stayed one more year but for the most part peeling off his blocking stripped a lot of his drive. Understandable, actually.

    Trading for the TE/WR hybrid then trying to use him as a blocking TE was the start of this.

    The 2nd error was pissing off Kam. We eventually paid Kam anyway but him holding out hurt us that year. The moment the LOB realized they had to carry the load but were not going to be the focus - they started chirping. Rightfully so actually.

    Both issues would have been non-issues if we had stuck to what we were.

    Wilson was worth betting on, maybe with a different coach though. Betting on going all offense with a defensive coach was a strategic error.

    That is water under the bridge though.

    The issue is that Carroll can win focusing on defense WHEN HE HAS 4-5 HOF players in his defense and a few other top 5-7 at their position players.

    But he isn't even good at defense now. So where is the upside?

    We have to hope that betting on our rapidly declining in effectiveness HC has one, because we have this one year to make the playoffs in a more difficult division as our only chance to keep Wilson. Even then, not sure that chance is great.

    Agreed, 1000%!!!!
    TheLegendOfBoom
    Silver Supporter
    Silver Supporter
     
    Posts: 1870
    Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:12 pm
    Location: Westcoastin’


  • Hawkpower wrote:
    oldhawkfan wrote:
    GaiusMarius wrote:I don't think that Wilson wants to be here and that's a problem. So sooner or later he won't be. With a disinterested ownership it would appear that Carroll is safe.

    The rest depends on what comes next. Carroll's system can work with a decent, but not great QB. Seeing that play out without a 35M QB would be interesting (no, Jackson wasn't decent) as we have never really seen that. You would think the run game would improve and defense with more resources allocated to it.

    The outcome of that would determine how long Carroll stays and that scenario is so murky I'm not sure what it looks like.



    Do you have actual proof of his system working with a decent but not great QB? The only success Pete Carroll has had in the NFL, is with Russell Wilson at QB!



    Wilson was asked to play a decent but not great role when they won the Super Bowl.

    That team was so dominant in other areas, they could have won it all with quite a few guys under center.
    Just for fun, what do all you armchair GMs and HCs think if we had Kaepernick instead of Russ in '13 and '14? Could we still go to the Superbowls? Heck replace Kaep with Cam?

    I am of the opinion that Russ is a better QB than Kaep, so that's not the debate, but could Kaep ride Marshawn and LOB to Superbowls?

    Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
    toffee
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2790
    Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:44 pm




It is currently Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:05 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ SEATTLE SEAHAWKS FOOTBALL ]




Information
  • Who is online