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Wilson’s head is the issue not his finger

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  • keasley45 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    OrangeGravy wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:Because someone asked for this play.. The question was what was Russ thinking throwing to a doubled DK. i answered earlier that i remember him having the RB out of the backfield open. Only because i looked for the play per request here it is. And Russ had an easy pass to Penny and the long route to Lockett open at the sticks as he'd beaten his guy, the corner was trailing and teh safety too far over top since Lockett was curling back to the LOS

    ImageScreenshot_20211124-143344_Chrome by J_Otte, on Flickr

    Two deep routes by DK and Lockett, one outlet in a one on one for the RB on a LB

    ImageScreenshot_20211124-143359_Chrome by J_Otte, on Flickr

    ImageScreenshot_20211124-143414_Chrome by J_Otte, on Flickr

    DK starts left and breaks behind a curling Lockett who takes his route to the sideline. Penny is an option out of the backfield. At this point, the safety over Lockett is dropping and the corner and safety on DK have him Bracketed. Its well protected, and Russ can choose, without pressure to look at the read and go over the top to DK, hit Lockett on a curl - hes got his guy beat. Or Penny who has a 9 yard cushion but even if the defender closes, a 1v1 vs a LB. And the quicker Russ makes the read, the faster has can go there. If he throws here, his line is giving him a 5 yard cushion and Lockett is already breaking - Easy 1st down.

    ImageScreenshot_20211124-143652_Chrome by J_Otte, on Flickr

    This is the moment the ball was thrown. Lockett was an easy option. Hes running his route to the 1st down marker and if Russ hits him, its basically uncontested. Lockett has position.

    Or, Russ can hit Penny, - which let me guess, despite never having a defender ( a LB) within 8 yards of him on what would be a quick, fastball throw, would have been covered or picked? - but he goes to the hardest of the 3 reads.

    Image2021-11-24_04-27-34 by J_Otte, on Flickr

    Three options. One read.

    And by the way, this is a nice play design to beat the 2 safety look. Russ has an option for the big play, a mid range option at the sticks, and a short option before the sticks but with a RB who only needs to break one tackle. His choice, but he only has one thing in mind.

    Russell checked into this play. I was curious to know what he saw presnap that lead to the check


    Ok...with you saying 3 options...only 1 read. You are saying you recognize he locks on dk. Now tell me was that his choice or was it a forced play?

    I'll wait. Cuz we can keep playing this who's fault and he was open after the fact, but the truth is you have no idea. Just need someone to blame right?


    I do t even know what that means. Forced how?Are you suggesting the play didn't allow him to do anything but throw to double coverage?? The play has options. And if there a wb in the league who ha shown he'll toss what the plays says and do what he wants it's #3.


    Lockett was frustrated, as shown in his presser. Penny? no one listens to Penny, and he dare not show his frustrations on plays like this one. DK, on the other hand, if he wants to be a super star, super stars made super plays. He was double teamed, but super stars like Jerry Rice was double teamed his whole career. Just saying.
    toffee
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  • keasley45 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Except it's a good defensive play because it resulted in a sack. Nothing more...nothing less. We cant redo play with dk running the seam.


    It was a completely failed defensive play. the LB are caught flat footed. One is late to Collins, The other is late to Everett, and the 3rd is beaten by Dissly. The safeties both play outside coverage and leave Dissly open to run uncontested down the middle of the field. Its not post rationalism or... if only he'd seen this almost impossible play, Its a broken defense, a wide open wr, and a qb stuck on one read, often seemingly unable to get the ball to anyone but who he's zeroed in on.


    Ok because you say so right? You can't be wrong. Cuz lb covering dissly isn't sitting his zone(supposedly flat footed) passing off to deeper. And everett or Collins didn't look for the Ball until they split toward sidelines. Except russ was pretty much sacked by then. God man...you cant be wrong in your analysis of russ can you? It's gotta be his fault or no one else.

    That's cool. You ride with that. I'm hoping the seahawks make it no matter what. I don't need to call anyone out or attest own opinions into victory. I know what I saw.

    I'm tired of arguing an opinion, when clearly it doesn't matter. Only yours does right?

    To bad neither of our opinions matter and russ will ball anyway.

    Stupid discussion.


    First what typiy gets engaged in here is squabble about opinions. So you post clips of game tape so that opinion matters less. And I don't even post the tricky tack could be this, could be that kind of plays, just the obvious ones that contribute to the purpose of this thread, which is a discussion about what's wrong with Russ beyond his finger.

    The play says what the play says. Because i had to say 5 times the safetues werent in a positiyokn to break on Dissly because physics and their motion on film shows it, doesnt make me so.r ody trying to be right. You just can't say things when facts are in the table and are being discussed and expect no response. For example, you said the LB wasn't beat and passed Dissly off ...to who? The ref? There's nobody there picking him up.

    There are plenty of plays that weren't on Russ. Sorry if this thread is about the mounting nimber of times where the failure of a series is on him and trying to understand why. Drops are obvious. Fumbles are obvious, an offsides is obvious, an overthrow is obvious, a missed block like the one on Homer is obvious.The responsibility for failure within a pkay, not always so.

    I don't get the constant desire to defend the guy when he's the most important piece on the field and needs to be functioning correctly for us to win. All great players are great for a period, and then they are not. Lately everything on the Russ fan Side of things is about how he's playing poorly because of his finger. Or because ofnthe line.

    GOD FORBID THAT THAT CONSTANT DRUMBEAT IS UPSET BY SIMPLE XS AND OS THAT SHOW OTHERWISE.

    your side sits back and blames blocking, his finger, the play calls, the OC, the HC, Jody Allen, his friend passing... and call for the whole team being blown up... andnthen acuse somebody else of saying maybe that the whole thing doesn't need to be blown up, but that one key player needs to play better. And I'm the negative one.

    Yes, there are weekly failures by different players at different times on this team and on every team in the league. We have our share of dumb plays well beyond Russ. This thread is about Russ and his poor play. If you want to start a thread about how the line needs to improve in certain situations or how Waldron could call a better game and provide some measurable basis for discussion, have at itplays, go ahead and start it. Post to it. That would be a perfectly valid thing to do. And enlightening for everyone.

    I'd thought to post one on how poor the defenses scheme is covering TE and running backs overbthe middle. Also thought about breaking down the improved play on the back end of the defense, or a couple of key, brilliant plays that Tre Brown made in his short stint this year.

    Plenty to talk about. Again, this one is about Russ.


    I haven't sided anywhere or aligned with anyone. You don't get to tell me where I stand. Ecspecially since you can't openly accept others opinions and only want to recognize your own. I'm talking about russ...having a differing opinion then yours and you can't handle it. Whatever.
    jamescasey1124
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  • He makes a call at the line for sure that Dk responds to and Penny steps forward to hear it.

    Not sure what it was but Russ had control over it regardless.
    keasley45
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:

    I haven't sided anywhere or aligned with anyone. You don't get to tell me where I stand. Ecspecially since you can't openly accept others opinions and only want to recognize your own. I'm talking about russ...having a differing opinion then yours and you can't handle it. Whatever.


    Absolutley can. I'm not the one who said he doesn't care about more evidence that refutes his opinion and that I'm just going to stand by what I want to believe.
    Last edited by keasley45 on Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    keasley45
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  • keasley45 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    Ok because you say so right? You can't be wrong. Cuz lb covering dissly isn't sitting his zone(supposedly flat footed) passing off to deeper. And everett or Collins didn't look for the Ball until they split toward sidelines. Except russ was pretty much sacked by then. God man...you cant be wrong in your analysis of russ can you? It's gotta be his fault or no one else.

    That's cool. You ride with that. I'm hoping the seahawks make it no matter what. I don't need to call anyone out or attest own opinions into victory. I know what I saw.

    I'm tired of arguing an opinion, when clearly it doesn't matter. Only yours does right?

    To bad neither of our opinions matter and russ will ball anyway.

    Stupid discussion.


    First what typiy gets engaged in here is squabble about opinions. So you post clips of game tape so that opinion matters less. And I don't even post the tricky tack could be this, could be that kind of plays, just the obvious ones that contribute to the purpose of this thread, which is a discussion about what's wrong with Russ beyond his finger.

    The play says what the play says. Because i had to say 5 times the safetues werent in a positiyokn to break on Dissly because physics and their motion on film shows it, doesnt make me so.r ody trying to be right. You just can't say things when facts are in the table and are being discussed and expect no response. For example, you said the LB wasn't beat and passed Dissly off ...to who? The ref? There's nobody there picking him up.

    There are plenty of plays that weren't on Russ. Sorry if this thread is about the mounting nimber of times where the failure of a series is on him and trying to understand why. Drops are obvious. Fumbles are obvious, an offsides is obvious, an overthrow is obvious, a missed block like the one on Homer is obvious.The responsibility for failure within a pkay, not always so.

    I don't get the constant desire to defend the guy when he's the most important piece on the field and needs to be functioning correctly for us to win. All great players are great for a period, and then they are not. Lately everything on the Russ fan Side of things is about how he's playing poorly because of his finger. Or because ofnthe line.

    GOD FORBID THAT THAT CONSTANT DRUMBEAT IS UPSET BY SIMPLE XS AND OS THAT SHOW OTHERWISE.

    your side sits back and blames blocking, his finger, the play calls, the OC, the HC, Jody Allen, his friend passing... and call for the whole team being blown up... andnthen acuse somebody else of saying maybe that the whole thing doesn't need to be blown up, but that one key player needs to play better. And I'm the negative one.

    Yes, there are weekly failures by different players at different times on this team and on every team in the league. We have our share of dumb plays well beyond Russ. This thread is about Russ and his poor play. If you want to start a thread about how the line needs to improve in certain situations or how Waldron could call a better game and provide some measurable basis for discussion, have at itplays, go ahead and start it. Post to it. That would be a perfectly valid thing to do. And enlightening for everyone.

    I'd thought to post one on how poor the defenses scheme is covering TE and running backs overbthe middle. Also thought about breaking down the improved play on the back end of the defense, or a couple of key, brilliant plays that Tre Brown made in his short stint this year.

    Plenty to talk about. Again, this one is about Russ.


    I haven't sided anywhere or aligned with anyone. You don't get to tell me where I stand. Ecspecially since you can't openly accept others opinions and only want to recognize your own. I'm talking about russ...having a differing opinion then yours and you can't handle it. Whatever.


    Absolutley can. I'm not the one who said he doesn't care about more evidence that refutes his opinion and that I'm just going to stand by what I want to believe.


    Ok maybe reading comprehension is low.

    What I said was you assumed I hadn't seen it. When I had. Kurt Warner talking about russ from playoff game last year.
    Then I said I don't focus on negatives, because they are outweighed by positives. I don't focus on limited negative highlights. You do. Reread and try again special guy.
    jamescasey1124
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  • I think Wilson's BUTT is the issue!!!
    Slick
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:


    Ok maybe reading comprehension is low.

    What I said was you assumed I hadn't seen it. When I had. Kurt Warner talking about russ from playoff game last year.
    Then I said I don't focus on negatives, because then are outweighed by positives. I don't focus on limited negative highlights. You do. Reread and try again special guy.


    I might have assumed that because you couch a thread full of valid criticism of the qb play as just being a Debbie Downer. So i figured maybe you hadn't seen that what's been talked about here had been broken down before, and that this is just a continuation / confirmation of poor play. BTW there are 3 clips there I think, one playoff, one regular season and one of various game situations.

    And maybe I am just comprehending the whole subject poorly...

    Positives outweighing the negatives. We each can see it however we want for sure, but I thought we were 3-7 cant maintain possession, can't convert 3rd downs, definitely can't throw for them, just went 7 quarters without a td, are missing open players, and the talk around the league is about why our QB play is so bad.

    I was focused on that. Like the whole point of the thread is.

    So what's your angle here? In a thread about poor QBing play, trying to disprove each potential example so that the 'winning idea' is that nothing is wrong with Russ? I dont get it. The plays that are being brought up are big plays, not nitpicking plays. Big QBs make them.

    Trying to understand the positive attributes that are winning out over the negative this last game, the game before, his game against the Rams. Multiple situations last year that lead to the change in offense... and all situations not having to do with his finger.

    You seem to be striking down anything that's brought up.

    Also not the one tossing around idiot, dumb, and special guy...

    Lol. Special guy.
    Last edited by keasley45 on Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    keasley45
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  • jamescasey1124 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    First what typiy gets engaged in here is squabble about opinions. So you post clips of game tape so that opinion matters less. And I don't even post the tricky tack could be this, could be that kind of plays, just the obvious ones that contribute to the purpose of this thread, which is a discussion about what's wrong with Russ beyond his finger.

    The play says what the play says. Because i had to say 5 times the safetues werent in a positiyokn to break on Dissly because physics and their motion on film shows it, doesnt make me so.r ody trying to be right. You just can't say things when facts are in the table and are being discussed and expect no response. For example, you said the LB wasn't beat and passed Dissly off ...to who? The ref? There's nobody there picking him up.

    There are plenty of plays that weren't on Russ. Sorry if this thread is about the mounting nimber of times where the failure of a series is on him and trying to understand why. Drops are obvious. Fumbles are obvious, an offsides is obvious, an overthrow is obvious, a missed block like the one on Homer is obvious.The responsibility for failure within a pkay, not always so.

    I don't get the constant desire to defend the guy when he's the most important piece on the field and needs to be functioning correctly for us to win. All great players are great for a period, and then they are not. Lately everything on the Russ fan Side of things is about how he's playing poorly because of his finger. Or because ofnthe line.

    GOD FORBID THAT THAT CONSTANT DRUMBEAT IS UPSET BY SIMPLE XS AND OS THAT SHOW OTHERWISE.

    your side sits back and blames blocking, his finger, the play calls, the OC, the HC, Jody Allen, his friend passing... and call for the whole team being blown up... andnthen acuse somebody else of saying maybe that the whole thing doesn't need to be blown up, but that one key player needs to play better. And I'm the negative one.

    Yes, there are weekly failures by different players at different times on this team and on every team in the league. We have our share of dumb plays well beyond Russ. This thread is about Russ and his poor play. If you want to start a thread about how the line needs to improve in certain situations or how Waldron could call a better game and provide some measurable basis for discussion, have at itplays, go ahead and start it. Post to it. That would be a perfectly valid thing to do. And enlightening for everyone.

    I'd thought to post one on how poor the defenses scheme is covering TE and running backs overbthe middle. Also thought about breaking down the improved play on the back end of the defense, or a couple of key, brilliant plays that Tre Brown made in his short stint this year.

    Plenty to talk about. Again, this one is about Russ.


    I haven't sided anywhere or aligned with anyone. You don't get to tell me where I stand. Ecspecially since you can't openly accept others opinions and only want to recognize your own. I'm talking about russ...having a differing opinion then yours and you can't handle it. Whatever.


    Absolutley can. I'm not the one who said he doesn't care about more evidence that refutes his opinion and that I'm just going to stand by what I want to believe.


    Ok maybe reading comprehension is low.



    What I said was you assumed I hadn't seen it. When I had. Kurt Warner talking about russ from playoff game last year.
    Then I said I don't focus on negatives, because they are outweighed by positives. I don't focus on limited negative highlights. You do. Reread and try again special guy.



    I will say something I have always said things look different on film from on high. An example one of the plays Warner called out could not have been made as there was a d lineman in the throwing lane. The only way to know what was or was not is to get the film of the exact thing for the QBs perspective otherwise you don't know you are only guessing. There is a film of Warner doing some of the same things, but if you really watch and envision from field level as the Qb you can tell defenders are in the way or it's too big a gamble etc etc.
    John63
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  • John63 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    I haven't sided anywhere or aligned with anyone. You don't get to tell me where I stand. Ecspecially since you can't openly accept others opinions and only want to recognize your own. I'm talking about russ...having a differing opinion then yours and you can't handle it. Whatever.


    Absolutley can. I'm not the one who said he doesn't care about more evidence that refutes his opinion and that I'm just going to stand by what I want to believe.


    Ok maybe reading comprehension is low.



    What I said was you assumed I hadn't seen it. When I had. Kurt Warner talking about russ from playoff game last year.
    Then I said I don't focus on negatives, because they are outweighed by positives. I don't focus on limited negative highlights. You do. Reread and try again special guy.



    I will say something I have always said things look different on film from on high. An example one of the plays Warner called out could not have been made as there was a d lineman in the throwing lane. The only way to know what was or was not is to get the film of the exact thing for the QBs perspective otherwise you don't know you are only guessing. There is a film of Warner doing some of the same things, but if you really watch and envision from field level as the Qb you can tell defenders are in the way or it's too big a gamble etc etc.


    I can't disagree with the fact that what Kurt commented from was a broadcast view. You're absolutley right. That might explain some misses. But I'd say at this point it'd be pretty hard to explain away Russ's struggles reading the right throw with just lanes being blocked.

    And, to your point, the possessions we had in the redzone sunday I still maintain we should have run more, but the two plays I thought Russ could have gone elsewhere on with the ball (the one to Everett) it was his choice, no bad choice to make, and unfortunately it just sailed on him and the other he couldn't have seen because of the line.
    keasley45
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  • John63 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    I haven't sided anywhere or aligned with anyone. You don't get to tell me where I stand. Ecspecially since you can't openly accept others opinions and only want to recognize your own. I'm talking about russ...having a differing opinion then yours and you can't handle it. Whatever.


    Absolutley can. I'm not the one who said he doesn't care about more evidence that refutes his opinion and that I'm just going to stand by what I want to believe.


    Ok maybe reading comprehension is low.



    What I said was you assumed I hadn't seen it. When I had. Kurt Warner talking about russ from playoff game last year.
    Then I said I don't focus on negatives, because they are outweighed by positives. I don't focus on limited negative highlights. You do. Reread and try again special guy.



    I will say something I have always said things look different on film from on high. An example one of the plays Warner called out could not have been made as there was a d lineman in the throwing lane. The only way to know what was or was not is to get the film of the exact thing for the QBs perspective otherwise you don't know you are only guessing. There is a film of Warner doing some of the same things, but if you really watch and envision from field level as the Qb you can tell defenders are in the way or it's too big a gamble etc etc.

    This is an issue, but this is where not stepping up in the pocket hinders you. It not only hurts the tackles, you miss passing lanes. All these guys grow up watching film from that view.
    OrangeGravy
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  • OrangeGravy wrote:
    John63 wrote:
    jamescasey1124 wrote:
    keasley45 wrote:
    Absolutley can. I'm not the one who said he doesn't care about more evidence that refutes his opinion and that I'm just going to stand by what I want to believe.


    Ok maybe reading comprehension is low.



    What I said was you assumed I hadn't seen it. When I had. Kurt Warner talking about russ from playoff game last year.
    Then I said I don't focus on negatives, because they are outweighed by positives. I don't focus on limited negative highlights. You do. Reread and try again special guy.



    I will say something I have always said things look different on film from on high. An example one of the plays Warner called out could not have been made as there was a d lineman in the throwing lane. The only way to know what was or was not is to get the film of the exact thing for the QBs perspective otherwise you don't know you are only guessing. There is a film of Warner doing some of the same things, but if you really watch and envision from field level as the Qb you can tell defenders are in the way or it's too big a gamble etc etc.

    This is an issue, but this is where not stepping up in the pocket hinders you. It not only hurts the tackles, you miss passing lanes. All these guys grow up watching film from that view.


    Russ is having a hard time with it. The GB wasn't good and there were a few plays in against Arizona where stepping up would have helped him see DK. But lately he seems to only want to escape out the back even when the front is wide open.
    keasley45
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  • Keasley, I appreciate you taking your time to create this thread with the screenshots and the analysis and justifications.

    I agree with everything you’ve explained.

    Unfortunately, there’s still going to be a contingency that does not want to believe some things including Wilson’s play has been bad or has deteriorated greatly.

    I for one have notice and this goes before this year and multiple years back that Wilson does not see the entire field or see routes develop over the middle.

    You’re definitely not going to convince everyone, nor, should that be your responsibility, but a large number of fans and posters here agree with you what you said.

    Thanks again for your work on this thread.

    Very good read!

    Solid work!

    Happy Thanksgiving!

    Cheers!
    TheLegendOfBoom
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  • What would you give for Russ at this point if you were a team in need of a QB?

    Also I'm sure Keasley45 should have some more good screen shots for us from last night as even the broadcasters were pointing out huge misses by Russ.
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