Wilson’s head is the issue not his finger

[toffee]

If Pete sat Russ, went through GB game with Geno. Lost 17-0 with Geno, would you esteemed ladies and gentlemen still insist that Russ should have start d the game?

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Maybe. We'll never know if Geno would have been more effective than a 60-70% Russell.

Considering we just got shut out for the first time in over a decade......I'm thinking the answer is yes, Geno would have been more effective.

I am with you, I do think Geno may give us better result. BUT, here's the thing, if Geno won the game for us, all is good except Russ may not be happy. IF Geno couldn't win the game for us, said it ended with 14-19. EVERY 12 wants Pete's head on a plate right there and then, under the logic that if Geno could score 14, Russ could scored more and even win.

Therefore I can understand why Wilson started the game, but Pete didn't have the balls to pull him at half time or in 3rd quarter. I won't be surprised if Geno wins the game if Russ was pulled in 3rd.

 

[Seymour]

He talked himself into sucking IMO. He made several pre game comments to the effect that "I'm not quite 100% but I'm ready". Making excuses before you get on the field, not a good look or result.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.

 

[ZagHawk]

If Pete sat Russ, went through GB game with Geno. Lost 17-0 with Geno, would you esteemed ladies and gentlemen still insist that Russ should have start d the game?

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

Maybe. We'll never know if Geno would have been more effective than a 60-70% Russell.

Considering we just got shut out for the first time in over a decade......I'm thinking the answer is yes, Geno would have been more effective.

I am with you, I do think Geno may give us better result. BUT, here's the thing, if Geno won the game for us, all is good except Russ may not be happy. IF Geno couldn't win the game for us, said it ended with 14-19. EVERY 12 wants Pete's head on a plate right there and then, under the logic that if Geno could score 14, Russ could scored more and even win.

Therefore I can understand why Wilson started the game, but Pete didn't have the balls to pull him at half time or in 3rd quarter. I won't be surprised if Geno wins the game if Russ was pulled in 3rd.

I agree with this. There was tremendous pressure to start RW ready or not as soon as he was "Cleared".

 

[SoulfishHawk]

If another QB came back as quick as he did, tried to tough it out and struggled, would people be blasting him? Someone like Rodgers or Brady would get the "he's just trying to win for his team" treatment.

Facts

 

[keasley45]

One problem with your original theory/post. If you guys are not taking into account wide reciever on the seahawks than blaming russ' decision making is useless. How do you throw a ball with out any one open? Gee well just throw it out of bounds so you do get sacked. No. That is an option, but you try to make a play down until you cant. Otherwise, the b!@ch on this site would whine about 3 and outs where russ is constantly throwing the ball out. Anyone wonder why lockett and metcalf barely had any receptions? Then wonder why russ was just throwing the ball up for grabs? Maybe hoping someone can make a play. But they didnt. Yes russ sailed some balls. Missed swain on a diving td. Probably missed some open recievers here and there.

I'm sick of this site constantly looking for someone to blame. Did russ play perfect...no. Hardly his fault completely. Team game guys. Stop making posts questioning peoples minds, spirit and decision making. Its gross. Its judgemental and I can gurantee no one does that to you. Cuz if they did...I wouldnt see any posts discussing others faults.

True, GB's defense did a great job. So did ours covering their receivers. But AR's response wasn't throwing at triple covered receivers. I don't think most folks are faulting Russ for the wr's not being open. But you and others would have absolutely crucified Geno for making some of the decisions andnthrows that he did. The answer to constant pressure can be found in running the ball. It cant be found in short throws to the flat or behind the LOS or in not even attacking the area of the field the defense is leaving vulnerable.

We played GB to a draw into the 4th. The difference was that AR made us pay for the success we were having early on while we just let GB keep pounding us. But all the cries will be about lack of protection. Teams will continue to sell out to rush the qb until we prove that we can make them change that approach.

And sorry, but even on the drive in the 4th where we needed a score to close their 10 point lead... any score at all, the decision to just heave the ball up to Lockett was ill advised at best. But its EXACTLY the strategy he used to close out the Tennesee game in OT and then defended. In both instances, the game was still winnable, and instead of stringing together plays that could continue a drive, we chuck it up on the faith that our players will make a play.

You can't sustain an offense or wins over a period of years in the NFL on faith and magic. That's what strategy is for. And we have no discernable strategy other than to toss it to No 14 or No 16, close your eyes and hope. The lone caveat last night was finally getting Everett and Dissly involved... to pretty significant success. And then, like with the running game, we leave it ... and just heave it.

 

[LTH]

DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.

I'm not trying to say anything other than every great QB has to find the balance between having enough confidence to thread the needle and knowing when to check down...It absolutely is VERY easy to second guess Russ, point taken, but this has been an issue into last year. People want to put blame every where but Russ... The very best example is Brett Farve, Holmgren went round and round with him trying to get him to "get it" Holmgren did the Same thing with Hasselbeck...If there is a criticism of Carroll from my perspective is that he needs to hold Russ accountable and stop pandering to him...


LTH

 

[keasley45]

DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.

I'm not trying to say anything other than every great QB has to find the balance between having enough confidence to thread the needle and knowing when to check down...It absolutely is VERY easy to second guess Russ, point taken, but this has been an issue into last year. People want to put blame every where but Russ... The very best example is Brett Farve, Holmgren went round and round with him trying to get him to "get it" Holmgren did the Same thing with Hasselbeck...If there is a criticism of Carroll from my perspective is that he needs to hold Russ accountable and stop pandering to him...


LTH

Will echo that:

There are multiple truths here on both sides.

True, Carrol has coddled Russ.

And True, that Carrol benefited from Russ pulling out game after game in historic fashion. So he likely felt the protection of his qb justified.

Also True that Carrols system isn't passer friendly from a statistal perspective.

AND that any QB might put up better numbers in a more purely passer friendly scheme.

BUT its ALSO true that Carrols system IS Qb friendly in the sense that it doesn't require a PHD in x and o's to understand... which doesn't make it anymore antiquated than the defense that we are seeing the rebirth of. It just means you have to be able to counter what the defense is doing. Which also doesn't require a PHD.

But it's debatable whether Russ's vision of himself as a Brady or Brees or Rodgers type of ANTICIPATORY QB is accurate or whether his skill is more REACTIONARY... and whether instead, the system that in some ways 'held him back', also allowed him to maximize his ability while minimizing his weaknesses - anticipating coverages, rushes, and hitting the entire field.

Question now is whether we've seen the best of Russ now that after 10 years, the plays and schemes that fit what he can do have pretty much all been put on tape. Defenses line up to stop us both at the LOS and in covering our wr's and win now 65% of the time. In essence, the well has run dry, unless we do things like hit the shallow middle (geno did this but Russ has not), utilize the TE ( we did this and caught GB completely off guard), or reset the balance with the run game - which we refuse to do.

It's obvious we need to do the last 3. We will see if we can craft enough of a gamelan to accomplish anything.

 

[John63]

FYI his issues started well prior to yesterday.

Are you going to provide anything to support that assertion?


[tweet]https://twitter.com/FO_ASchatz/status/1460122358547550211[/tweet]

always amazing how the facts almost always shows the anti-Wilson crowd is clueless and resort to making crap up/

 

[John63]

If another QB came back as quick as he did, tried to tough it out and struggled, would people be blasting him? Someone like Rodgers or Brady would get the "he's just trying to win for his team" treatment.

Facts

This

 

[hoxrox]

FYI his issues started well prior to yesterday.

Are you going to provide anything to support that assertion?


[tweet]https://twitter.com/FO_ASchatz/status/1460122358547550211[/tweet]

always amazing how the facts almost always shows the anti-Wilson crowd is clueless and resort to making crap up/

The only thing those stats prove is how boom or bust the offense has been.

You want to cherry pick the first 5 games this year? How about the last 5 games last year?

What you will find is inconsistency.

 

[HawkOG70’]

DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.

Yeah they were poor passes. Not DK's fault. Did you even watch the game? One pass was behind DK and it bounced hard off the back of his shoulder pad. Wilson stank as guy :rumble: it was uncatchable. Stop excusing Wilson's poor play you do that too much. Accept that he's regressed and that we need to trade him for a rebuild. Perfect year to trade him this offseason.

 

[Spin Doctor]

DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.

I'm not trying to say anything other than every great QB has to find the balance between having enough confidence to thread the needle and knowing when to check down...It absolutely is VERY easy to second guess Russ, point taken, but this has been an issue into last year. People want to put blame every where but Russ... The very best example is Brett Farve, Holmgren went round and round with him trying to get him to "get it" Holmgren did the Same thing with Hasselbeck...If there is a criticism of Carroll from my perspective is that he needs to hold Russ accountable and stop pandering to him...


LTH

Will echo that:

There are multiple truths here on both sides.

True, Carrol has coddled Russ.

And True, that Carrol benefited from Russ pulling out game after game in historic fashion. So he likely felt the protection of his qb justified.

Also True that Carrols system isn't passer friendly from a statistal perspective.

AND that any QB might put up better numbers in a more purely passer friendly scheme.

BUT its ALSO true that Carrols system IS Qb friendly in the sense that it doesn't require a PHD in x and o's to understand... which doesn't make it anymore antiquated than the defense that we are seeing the rebirth of. It just means you have to be able to counter what the defense is doing. Which also doesn't require a PHD.

But it's debatable whether Russ's vision of himself as a Brady or Brees or Rodgers type of ANTICIPATORY QB is accurate or whether his skill is more REACTIONARY... and whether instead, the system that in some ways 'held him back', also allowed him to maximize his ability while minimizing his weaknesses - anticipating coverages, rushes, and hitting the entire field.

Question now is whether we've seen the best of Russ now that after 10 years, the plays and schemes that fit what he can do have pretty much all been put on tape. Defenses line up to stop us both at the LOS and in covering our wr's and win now 65% of the time. In essence, the well has run dry, unless we do things like hit the shallow middle (geno did this but Russ has not), utilize the TE ( we did this and caught GB completely off guard), or reset the balance with the run game - which we refuse to do.

It's obvious we need to do the last 3. We will see if we can craft enough of a gamelan to accomplish anything.

The Seahawks defense actually has been throwing out some exotic coverages the last few games. It isn't the cover 3 stuff we're used to seeing on defense. Lots of really interesting looks we've been throwing out lately. Aaron Rodgers was even fooled by some of the coverage switch ups we were running. We're showing one look pre-snap and running another when we drop back into coverage. This is a huge departure from what we normally have done under Pete.

On offense we don't need to have the most modern, cutting edge offense but we do need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot with the way we approach the offense. We're not putting our guys in the best positions and we're tipping what we're going to do pre-snap. The best offenses in the NFL don't do that. This allows the defense to play with their ears pinned back. Waiting until the final moment to snap the ball is also something we need to stop. You're essentially giving the opposing defense a free jump on the ball.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, it's Russ' fault that DK has dropped SEVERAL passes since he came in to the league.
Again, I did NOT say Russ played well, he was bad yesterday.
Maybe you should stop making excuses for DK??

 

[keasley45]

DK dropped 2 passes. Let me guess, that's Russ' fault too.
While he played like crap, the 5 year old needs to catch the ball too.

I'm not trying to say anything other than every great QB has to find the balance between having enough confidence to thread the needle and knowing when to check down...It absolutely is VERY easy to second guess Russ, point taken, but this has been an issue into last year. People want to put blame every where but Russ... The very best example is Brett Farve, Holmgren went round and round with him trying to get him to "get it" Holmgren did the Same thing with Hasselbeck...If there is a criticism of Carroll from my perspective is that he needs to hold Russ accountable and stop pandering to him...


LTH

Will echo that:

There are multiple truths here on both sides.

True, Carrol has coddled Russ.

And True, that Carrol benefited from Russ pulling out game after game in historic fashion. So he likely felt the protection of his qb justified.

Also True that Carrols system isn't passer friendly from a statistal perspective.

AND that any QB might put up better numbers in a more purely passer friendly scheme.

BUT its ALSO true that Carrols system IS Qb friendly in the sense that it doesn't require a PHD in x and o's to understand... which doesn't make it anymore antiquated than the defense that we are seeing the rebirth of. It just means you have to be able to counter what the defense is doing. Which also doesn't require a PHD.

But it's debatable whether Russ's vision of himself as a Brady or Brees or Rodgers type of ANTICIPATORY QB is accurate or whether his skill is more REACTIONARY... and whether instead, the system that in some ways 'held him back', also allowed him to maximize his ability while minimizing his weaknesses - anticipating coverages, rushes, and hitting the entire field.

Question now is whether we've seen the best of Russ now that after 10 years, the plays and schemes that fit what he can do have pretty much all been put on tape. Defenses line up to stop us both at the LOS and in covering our wr's and win now 65% of the time. In essence, the well has run dry, unless we do things like hit the shallow middle (geno did this but Russ has not), utilize the TE ( we did this and caught GB completely off guard), or reset the balance with the run game - which we refuse to do.

It's obvious we need to do the last 3. We will see if we can craft enough of a gamelan to accomplish anything.

The Seahawks defense actually has been throwing out some exotic coverages the last few games. It isn't the cover 3 stuff we're used to seeing on defense. Lots of really interesting looks we've been throwing out lately. Aaron Rodgers was even fooled by some of the coverage switch ups we were running. We're showing one look pre-snap and running another when we drop back into coverage. This is a huge departure from what we normally have done under Pete.

On offense we don't need to have the most modern, cutting edge offense but we do need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot with the way we approach the offense. We're not putting our guys in the best positions and we're tipping what we're going to do pre-snap. The best offenses in the NFL don't do that. This allows the defense to play with their ears pinned back. Waiting until the final moment to snap the ball is also something we need to stop. You're essentially giving the opposing defense a free jump on the ball.

AR routinely snaps the ball with 1 second on the clock. Doesn't seem to hurt him.

And our offense this year has gotten to the LOS pretty often with 12 to 15 seconds on the clock ... and then taken it to zero with a change of play.

 

[keasley45]

Yeah, it's Russ' fault that DK has dropped SEVERAL passes since he came in to the league.
Again, I did NOT say Russ played well, he was bad yesterday.
Maybe you should stop making excuses for DK??

Why do the DK drops keep coming up?? There's a pile of stuff outside of that to wonder about. And it wasn't 'several '.

I'm not even upset about his errant passes. It's what's not happening from play to play in terms of reads, adjustments and decision making.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I'm not trying to say anything other than every great QB has to find the balance between having enough confidence to thread the needle and knowing when to check down...It absolutely is VERY easy to second guess Russ, point taken, but this has been an issue into last year. People want to put blame every where but Russ... The very best example is Brett Farve, Holmgren went round and round with him trying to get him to "get it" Holmgren did the Same thing with Hasselbeck...If there is a criticism of Carroll from my perspective is that he needs to hold Russ accountable and stop pandering to him...


LTH

Will echo that:

There are multiple truths here on both sides.

True, Carrol has coddled Russ.

And True, that Carrol benefited from Russ pulling out game after game in historic fashion. So he likely felt the protection of his qb justified.

Also True that Carrols system isn't passer friendly from a statistal perspective.

AND that any QB might put up better numbers in a more purely passer friendly scheme.

BUT its ALSO true that Carrols system IS Qb friendly in the sense that it doesn't require a PHD in x and o's to understand... which doesn't make it anymore antiquated than the defense that we are seeing the rebirth of. It just means you have to be able to counter what the defense is doing. Which also doesn't require a PHD.

But it's debatable whether Russ's vision of himself as a Brady or Brees or Rodgers type of ANTICIPATORY QB is accurate or whether his skill is more REACTIONARY... and whether instead, the system that in some ways 'held him back', also allowed him to maximize his ability while minimizing his weaknesses - anticipating coverages, rushes, and hitting the entire field.

Question now is whether we've seen the best of Russ now that after 10 years, the plays and schemes that fit what he can do have pretty much all been put on tape. Defenses line up to stop us both at the LOS and in covering our wr's and win now 65% of the time. In essence, the well has run dry, unless we do things like hit the shallow middle (geno did this but Russ has not), utilize the TE ( we did this and caught GB completely off guard), or reset the balance with the run game - which we refuse to do.

It's obvious we need to do the last 3. We will see if we can craft enough of a gamelan to accomplish anything.

The Seahawks defense actually has been throwing out some exotic coverages the last few games. It isn't the cover 3 stuff we're used to seeing on defense. Lots of really interesting looks we've been throwing out lately. Aaron Rodgers was even fooled by some of the coverage switch ups we were running. We're showing one look pre-snap and running another when we drop back into coverage. This is a huge departure from what we normally have done under Pete.

On offense we don't need to have the most modern, cutting edge offense but we do need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot with the way we approach the offense. We're not putting our guys in the best positions and we're tipping what we're going to do pre-snap. The best offenses in the NFL don't do that. This allows the defense to play with their ears pinned back. Waiting until the final moment to snap the ball is also something we need to stop. You're essentially giving the opposing defense a free jump on the ball.

AR routinely snaps the ball with 1 second on the clock. Doesn't seem to hurt him.

And our offense this year has gotten to the LOS pretty often with 12 to 15 seconds on the clock ... and then taken it to zero with a change of play.

Aaron Rodgers also changes his tempo up quite a bit more than Seahawks offense, he also games defenses a lot more with his hard count, something Wilson has never been great at.

 

[keasley45]

FYI his issues started well prior to yesterday.

Are you going to provide anything to support that assertion?


[tweet]https://twitter.com/FO_ASchatz/status/1460122358547550211[/tweet]

always amazing how the facts almost always shows the anti-Wilson crowd is clueless and resort to making crap up/

The only thing those stats prove is how boom or bust the offense has been.

You want to cherry pick the first 5 games this year? How about the last 5 games last year?

What you will find is inconsistency.

Exactly. 2nd in the league in DVOA on the strength of long plays.

Where do we rank in 3rd down conversions again?

Or how about average drive duration for the offense?

Or how about average number of plays per series for the offense.

3 and outs?

But yeah. The DVOA looks great. That and the Fantasy Football PPG for Russ, DK and Tyler. Off the charts!

 

[jamescasey1124]

One problem with your original theory/post. If you guys are not taking into account wide reciever on the seahawks than blaming russ' decision making is useless. How do you throw a ball with out any one open? Gee well just throw it out of bounds so you do get sacked. No. That is an option, but you try to make a play down until you cant. Otherwise, the b!@ch on this site would whine about 3 and outs where russ is constantly throwing the ball out. Anyone wonder why lockett and metcalf barely had any receptions? Then wonder why russ was just throwing the ball up for grabs? Maybe hoping someone can make a play. But they didnt. Yes russ sailed some balls. Missed swain on a diving td. Probably missed some open recievers here and there.

I'm sick of this site constantly looking for someone to blame. Did russ play perfect...no. Hardly his fault completely. Team game guys. Stop making posts questioning peoples minds, spirit and decision making. Its gross. Its judgemental and I can gurantee no one does that to you. Cuz if they did...I wouldnt see any posts discussing others faults.

True, GB's defense did a great job. So did ours covering their receivers. But AR's response wasn't throwing at triple covered receivers. I don't think most folks are faulting Russ for the wr's not being open. But you and others would have absolutely crucified Geno for making some of the decisions andnthrows that he did. The answer to constant pressure can be found in running the ball. It cant be found in short throws to the flat or behind the LOS or in not even attacking the area of the field the defense is leaving vulnerable.

We played GB to a draw into the 4th. The difference was that AR made us pay for the success we were having early on while we just let GB keep pounding us. But all the cries will be about lack of protection. Teams will continue to sell out to rush the qb until we prove that we can make them change that approach.

And sorry, but even on the drive in the 4th where we needed a score to close their 10 point lead... any score at all, the decision to just heave the ball up to Lockett was ill advised at best. But its EXACTLY the strategy he used to close out the Tennesee game in OT and then defended. In both instances, the game was still winnable, and instead of stringing together plays that could continue a drive, we chuck it up on the faith that our players will make a play.

You can't sustain an offense or wins over a period of years in the NFL on faith and magic. That's what strategy is for. And we have no discernable strategy other than to toss it to No 14 or No 16, close your eyes and hope. The lone caveat last night was finally getting Everett and Dissly involved... to pretty significant success. And then, like with the running game, we leave it ... and just heave it.

Dude look back at play where he threw it up to lockett near endzone that Amos almost picked off. Amos was playing nearer to middle deep route and was nearly the only one back. Was able to read wilson and get over to lockett in time. Wasnt a bad choice or throw as much as it was just a dam good play by amos.

 

[seabowl]

Are you going to provide anything to support that assertion?


[tweet]https://twitter.com/FO_ASchatz/status/1460122358547550211[/tweet]

always amazing how the facts almost always shows the anti-Wilson crowd is clueless and resort to making crap up/

The only thing those stats prove is how boom or bust the offense has been.

You want to cherry pick the first 5 games this year? How about the last 5 games last year?

What you will find is inconsistency.

Exactly. 2nd in the league in DVOA on the strength of long plays.

Where do we rank in 3rd down conversions again?

Or how about average drive duration for the offense?

Or how about average number of plays per series for the offense.

3 and outs?

But yeah. The DVOA looks great. That and the Fantasy Football PPG for Russ, DK and Tyler. Off the charts!

.

Agree and I said earlier;

I get it but from mid season on last year this O and his play have dropped off dramatically. He has been slow, indecisive, and looks for the splash play too often.

This O needs DRIVES not quick outs.

Again I get the numbers may look good but stats don't win games.