4th down call

[HawkerD]

It was a horrid play call, and it happened at a poor time. It worked, but that doesn't mean it was a good idea. That decision could have easily thrown the game. We've had several poor calls like this by Pete that threw games this year. Not a smart decision. It worked out in the end, but the potential risk vs. reward was too great. Poor situational football.

Forgot the "in my not-so-humble opinion" qualifier there, doctor of spin.

The call was fantastic, not just because it worked, but because it took advantage of a mismatch, coupled with Russ's high quality deep ball, and no safety help over the top. It was a 1-on-1 situation with pass interference potential (actual, but not called, too). The ball could have landed in nearly a 5-7 yard area, and Moore still could have caught it for the TD.

We've had plays like this before that have won us games. Great decision, and I hope to see it again.

We dont know enough about the call to say it was horrid.I know i dont but i doubt that was his first read. I suspect Wilson didnt like his first option and made the decision to go with it and had the guts to make the play.

Wilson throws one of the best passes of the season and people are complaining about the play call? Unbelievable. Last year, it would have been a bubble screen for a loss of 10 or a classic "O-Line fall down" play. LOVE the gutsy call, and the execution. Period.

Try a little thought experiment. Imagine the pass was incomplete and the Hawks lost the game. You get on .net and see a thread that is titled, "4th down stupidity". The thread hammers PC/RW/BS regarding the play call. What is your post going to read like.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

But it didn't lose the game. You could play the what if game all day long. What if the Hawks recover even two of the 5 fumbles? Completely different game.

 

[chris98251]

But it didn't lose the game. You could play the what if game all day long. What if the Hawks recover even two of the 5 fumbles? Completely different game.

Or we don't call a time out so McVay can change his mind and punt instead and we just need a field goal and could have won as well.

That's our dilemma with Pete, when it works great but his gutsy call success and failure rating is dubious at best. All will take the win and the gutsy call, but no Pass interference on the play when it was blatant and would have given a 1st down if incomplete is the other aspect of that play that defies the odds.

Get three for a first, get a PI for a first, challenge a Etric Pruitt for a TD for the win, oh wait that worked for the Steelers also...............

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It just felt good to actually see Pete being smart with the time management AND to see our coaching staff outcoach another team in the 4th Quarter. Certainly hasn't been the case in the losses.

 

[Mad Dog]

Its not reckless as he was one on one and had beat his guy.

If you dont want to credit the pass or decision then dont. But posting it was "reckless," is either disingenuous criticism for the sake of it or just simple ignorance of not just Russ (how many times have we seen that from him? Hell... 4 times today) but just manipulation of matchups in football in general.

It was a low percentage play on a down where we only needed 3 yards. I get his point. When Wilson let go of it I was horrified.

Now of course the counterpoint is that it was a backup DB and Russ saw that Moore had a step so that swings it back to a more favorable choice. And it worked out. But given the choice on a 4th and 3, MOST of the time, I would prefer a higher percentage play personally

Thank you. It was a low percentage play. That's the words I should have used. Everything seems to need spelled out around here for some reason.

I think you don't understand the situation. We were down by a score. So regardless of whether we got a first down or not we had to get into the endzone. A 35 yd pass to a receiver that had a step in single coverage is probably a higher percentage play than the odds of converting on a shorter pass then being successful on several more plays to get into the endzone.

You wait all game to get those one on one matchups you like. You take those shots no matter the down or distance if you have a QB like WIlson.

So for a first down conversion it was low percentage. For scoring it was a reasonably high percentage play compared to slowly working to the endzone.

 

[GeekHawk]

Truth be told, as I was watching that whole play unfold:
"Go for it! Yes!!"
"Wait - we're lining up for a pass and not a run?"
"Holy shit, we're passing on 4th and 3?!?"
"How is the pocket not collapsing right now???"
"Throw it! Throw the damn ball!!!"
"Aaaaahhhh!!!!" (in a panic-stricken way...)
"Yes! Yes! Yes! Holy schneikies! Yes!!"
<panting noises and shaky hands as I down the last of my beer...>

 

[Scorpion05]

Lol. This is ridiculous.

Brees, Rodgers, Brady...any elite QB makes that throw on 4th and 3...and the usual suspects on here would say “That’s what separates elite QBs. The ability to make gutsy, accurate throws like that. Pete got out-coached, Russ is not on that level.”

Russell makes that throw. Puts enough arc on it that even if the DB did turn around he’d have trouble tracking it(and Moore) down, and there’s complaints about how ill-advised the call was. Just wow. I knew some of you were biased against Wilson but I didn’t think it ran that deep.

A bad call doesn't mean that RW didn't throw a perfect pass that very few can execute

I think it is beyond discussion that it was a perfect throw. Who has said it wasn't?

It is like watching basketball and see your team throw up a contested three. You think why did the idiot do that - then it goes in and you celebrate

If that was the primary receiver it was a relatively bad play call. Maybe RW saw holding, maybe he was just confident he could make it and threw it - awesome it worked we are all happy.

On 4th down to determine the game when you need 3 - still not the smartest play by the percentages

I’m also referencing the coach in this scenario. So let me rephrase. Belicheck + Brady, Payton + Brees, or Rodgers alone makes that decision/throw and they’re called Gods. Any risky play, or tight window throw can be criticized if it doesn’t work. But great coaches and quarterbacks are great because they pull it off. And we thank them for it. We never spend all day dissecting why it was a bad decision especially after it worked. We just say “Wow.” And fans around the league say “Wow, I wish that was my coach/quarterback

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Exactly, arguing over something that WORKED instead of just enjoying the play and the win. Really odd stuff.

 

[GeekHawk]

Well, ya know the old saying - some people would bitch if they were hung with a new rope.

(Meaning, some people won't be happy in any circumstance. Just to clarify)

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Lol. This is ridiculous.

Brees, Rodgers, Brady...any elite QB makes that throw on 4th and 3...and the usual suspects on here would say “That’s what separates elite QBs. The ability to make gutsy, accurate throws like that. Pete got out-coached, Russ is not on that level.”

Russell makes that throw. Puts enough arc on it that even if the DB did turn around he’d have trouble tracking it(and Moore) down, and there’s complaints about how ill-advised the call was. Just wow. I knew some of you were biased against Wilson but I didn’t think it ran that deep.

Brees, Rodgers, and Brady probably make a higher-percentage completion for 6 yards and go on to win the game anyway, aided by an OC who works to actually scheme receivers open.

That's what I'M saying. Don't know about anyone else.

 

[AlciG]

Lol. This is ridiculous.

Brees, Rodgers, Brady...any elite QB makes that throw on 4th and 3...and the usual suspects on here would say “That’s what separates elite QBs. The ability to make gutsy, accurate throws like that. Pete got out-coached, Russ is not on that level.”

Russell makes that throw. Puts enough arc on it that even if the DB did turn around he’d have trouble tracking it(and Moore) down, and there’s complaints about how ill-advised the call was. Just wow. I knew some of you were biased against Wilson but I didn’t think it ran that deep.

Brees, Rodgers, and Brady probably make a higher-percentage completion for 6 yards and go on to win the game anyway, aided by an OC who works to actually scheme receivers open.

That's what I'M saying. Don't know about anyone else.

Or maybe they miss the throw, or make it and stall later-on in the drive. Enjoy that he made it AND the Hawks WON

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Lol. This is ridiculous.

Brees, Rodgers, Brady...any elite QB makes that throw on 4th and 3...and the usual suspects on here would say “That’s what separates elite QBs. The ability to make gutsy, accurate throws like that. Pete got out-coached, Russ is not on that level.”

Russell makes that throw. Puts enough arc on it that even if the DB did turn around he’d have trouble tracking it(and Moore) down, and there’s complaints about how ill-advised the call was. Just wow. I knew some of you were biased against Wilson but I didn’t think it ran that deep.

Brees, Rodgers, and Brady probably make a higher-percentage completion for 6 yards and go on to win the game anyway, aided by an OC who works to actually scheme receivers open.

That's what I'M saying. Don't know about anyone else.

Or maybe they miss the throw, or make it and stall later-on in the drive. Enjoy that he made it AND the Hawks WON

Their body of work is generally enough to dismiss that worry, so the alternate universe postulate there isn't sufficient reason to excuse bad process. The play call was only a decent one because the CB was a replacement guy, and that isn't why it's getting lauded. It's getting lauded mainly because it happened to work.

Look, I'm not upset. I just remember the wins we sacrificed in 2015 because we couldn't preserve a lead in the 4th quarter, and a big part of that was throwing deep on 3rd and short on multiple occasions.

 

[AlciG]

Their body of work is generally enough to dismiss that worry, so the alternate universe postulate there isn't sufficient reason to excuse bad process. The play call was only a decent one because the CB was a replacement guy, and that isn't why it's getting lauded. It's getting lauded mainly because it happened to work.

Look, I'm not upset. I just remember the wins we sacrificed in 2015 because we couldn't preserve a lead in the 4th quarter, and a big part of that was throwing deep on 3rd and short on multiple occasions.

Their body of work? I'll gladly take Wilson's body of work against theirs...

Brees: 45 gwd in 18 years (2.5 per year)
Brady: 44 gwd in 19 years (2.3 per year)
Wilson: 22 gwd in 7 years (3.1 per year)
Rodgers: 19 gwd in 14 years (1.4 per year)

Somehow you have this image in year head that I know I will not be able to convince you but in the clutch I'll live and die with Wilson.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Their body of work is generally enough to dismiss that worry, so the alternate universe postulate there isn't sufficient reason to excuse bad process. The play call was only a decent one because the CB was a replacement guy, and that isn't why it's getting lauded. It's getting lauded mainly because it happened to work.

Look, I'm not upset. I just remember the wins we sacrificed in 2015 because we couldn't preserve a lead in the 4th quarter, and a big part of that was throwing deep on 3rd and short on multiple occasions.

Their body of work? I'll gladly take Wilson's body of work against theirs...

Brees: 45 gwd in 18 years (2.5 per year)
Brady: 44 gwd in 19 years (2.3 per year)
Wilson: 22 gwd in 7 years (3.1 per year)
Rodgers: 19 gwd in 14 years (1.4 per year)

Somehow you have this image in year head that I know I will not be able to convince you but in the clutch I'll live and die with Wilson.

They're all elite, dude.

I never said the other three were better, nor did I even imply it. So if you got that out of what I said, it's your problem.

I said that those three are typically not ASKED to make wild crazy low-percentage shots in situations that don't warrant them.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Their body of work is generally enough to dismiss that worry, so the alternate universe postulate there isn't sufficient reason to excuse bad process. The play call was only a decent one because the CB was a replacement guy, and that isn't why it's getting lauded. It's getting lauded mainly because it happened to work.

Look, I'm not upset. I just remember the wins we sacrificed in 2015 because we couldn't preserve a lead in the 4th quarter, and a big part of that was throwing deep on 3rd and short on multiple occasions.

Their body of work? I'll gladly take Wilson's body of work against theirs...

Brees: 45 gwd in 18 years (2.5 per year)
Brady: 44 gwd in 19 years (2.3 per year)
Wilson: 22 gwd in 7 years (3.1 per year)
Rodgers: 19 gwd in 14 years (1.4 per year)

Somehow you have this image in year head that I know I will not be able to convince you but in the clutch I'll live and die with Wilson.

They're all elite, dude.

I never said the other three were better, nor did I even imply it. So if you got that out of what I said, it's your problem.

I said that those three are typically not ASKED to make wild crazy low-percentage shots in situations that don't warrant them.

And it's more than likely that Russ is more often behind going into the 3rd or 4th quarter because of slow starts, so he needs more Game-winning-drives.

 

[themunn]

Their body of work is generally enough to dismiss that worry, so the alternate universe postulate there isn't sufficient reason to excuse bad process. The play call was only a decent one because the CB was a replacement guy, and that isn't why it's getting lauded. It's getting lauded mainly because it happened to work.

Look, I'm not upset. I just remember the wins we sacrificed in 2015 because we couldn't preserve a lead in the 4th quarter, and a big part of that was throwing deep on 3rd and short on multiple occasions.

Their body of work? I'll gladly take Wilson's body of work against theirs...

Brees: 45 gwd in 18 years (2.5 per year)
Brady: 44 gwd in 19 years (2.3 per year)
Wilson: 22 gwd in 7 years (3.1 per year)
Rodgers: 19 gwd in 14 years (1.4 per year)

Somehow you have this image in year head that I know I will not be able to convince you but in the clutch I'll live and die with Wilson.

They're all elite, dude.

I never said the other three were better, nor did I even imply it. So if you got that out of what I said, it's your problem.

I said that those three are typically not ASKED to make wild crazy low-percentage shots in situations that don't warrant them.

And it's more than likely that Russ is more often behind going into the 3rd or 4th quarter because of slow starts, so he needs more Game-winning-drives.

Apart from Russell having the most QB wins in first 2,3,4,5,6 and 7 years of a career? Most wins = most likely to be ahead, so less opportunities for game winning drives.

Those GWD don't even count all the times he brought the team from behind in the 4th quarter and then the defense allowed the opposition to retake the lead - and in famous victories like the Bears game in his rookie season he had to do it twice! He leads a 97 yard TD drive to take the lead with 24 seconds to go, only for the defense to allow 58 yards and a field goal in 3 plays for the Bears to tie it. So Wilson just goes another 80 yards in OT to win it.

 

[Scorpion05]

Lol. This is ridiculous.

Brees, Rodgers, Brady...any elite QB makes that throw on 4th and 3...and the usual suspects on here would say “That’s what separates elite QBs. The ability to make gutsy, accurate throws like that. Pete got out-coached, Russ is not on that level.”

Russell makes that throw. Puts enough arc on it that even if the DB did turn around he’d have trouble tracking it(and Moore) down, and there’s complaints about how ill-advised the call was. Just wow. I knew some of you were biased against Wilson but I didn’t think it ran that deep.

Brees, Rodgers, and Brady probably make a higher-percentage completion for 6 yards and go on to win the game anyway, aided by an OC who works to actually scheme receivers open.

That's what I'M saying. Don't know about anyone else.

Not exactly sure what you’re arguing here. I’m not at all saying that those quarterbacks wouldn’t have taken the 6 yards. Russ himself has taken the short throws in his previous comebacks.

What I am saying is, that how we perceive a Quarterback + Coach’s decision is largely based on our RESPECT for that Quarterback + Coach. When Brady, Brees, and Rodgers have made spectacular, RISKY plays like that they’ve been given immense credit, without being questioned. There are also numerous examples of all those QBs failing in crunch time btw, even when they do take those short passes.

If Wilson + Carroll got the level of respect they deserve, given their track record...this wouldn’t be called a dumb decision by some. That lack of respect btw, is why so many analysts and fans predicted a 4-6 win season.

 

[Scorpion05]

Their body of work? I'll gladly take Wilson's body of work against theirs...

Brees: 45 gwd in 18 years (2.5 per year)
Brady: 44 gwd in 19 years (2.3 per year)
Wilson: 22 gwd in 7 years (3.1 per year)
Rodgers: 19 gwd in 14 years (1.4 per year)

Somehow you have this image in year head that I know I will not be able to convince you but in the clutch I'll live and die with Wilson.

They're all elite, dude.

I never said the other three were better, nor did I even imply it. So if you got that out of what I said, it's your problem.

I said that those three are typically not ASKED to make wild crazy low-percentage shots in situations that don't warrant them.

And it's more than likely that Russ is more often behind going into the 3rd or 4th quarter because of slow starts, so he needs more Game-winning-drives.

Apart from Russell having the most QB wins in first 2,3,4,5,6 and 7 years of a career? Most wins = most likely to be ahead, so less opportunities for game winning drives.

Those GWD don't even count all the times he brought the team from behind in the 4th quarter and then the defense allowed the opposition to retake the lead - and in famous victories like the Bears game in his rookie season he had to do it twice! He leads a 97 yard TD drive to take the lead with 24 seconds to go, only for the defense to allow 58 yards and a field goal in 3 plays for the Bears to tie it. So Wilson just goes another 80 yards in OT to win it.

Exactly. I get the criticisms of Pete ball and Russ. And I’ve had my own share of criticisms at times. But they win a lot more often than they lose. You can argue we don’t always start fast but a lot of teams also don’t finish well, especially in close games. Carroll’s teams also don’t get blown out often, especially with Wilson. Even with a flawed defense

Russell was definitely, abnormally slow with his starts last year. But, if elite QBs always started fast they’d be blowing teams out every time. That’s not always the case. Great coaches + Qbs can make the unscripted throws throughout a game

 

[Atradees]

I love it because you cant play scared. End up .500................Go for it like you mean it. Be educated about what is going on. Be prepared. At the same time; we could have also lost to Green Bay and the Panthers playing like we are. So, rrest assured when we play the Pats again in the Superb Owl this season we will win because we will run the ball.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

It still means Russ has big balls!