5 takeaways from Seahawks’ offensive line coach Tom Cable’s

[seahawkfreak]

Ohhh....BTW Tom. You won that championship with the highest paid Oline in the NFL in 2013, so you are full of crap!!

That line was average at best too so even when we paid for an O-line it was, ok. We just happen to have a starting QB getting paid 526k in 2013 so the team had a lot of leeway to find productive players.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

I really don't understand the Fant detractors. He may end up being a bust but I saw a lot to like for as inexperienced as he is.

I believe he will be our left tackle for the next 10 years barring injury.

No one is detracting from Fant's physical gifts and athleticism............but many of us don't think he's quite fully developed, as evident by his wildly inconsistent play last year.

Can he be our LT for the next 10 year? Yes. Is he ready NOW? No, haven't seen evidence of that yet. Thus, detractors.

I thought Fant actually came in and stabilized LT to a degree last year clearly he was the best option. Given his lack of experience and development he played very well and has a chance to be a good solid LT. I'd like to see him get a full training camp and preseason as the first string LT and start the season and if he fails then go to Joeckel because I have no faith in Joeckel at all and he has no real future on this team unless he is clearly better than everyone else and I have a very hard time believing that given his track record and injuries.

 

[Seymour]

Ohhh....BTW Tom. You won that championship with the highest paid Oline in the NFL in 2013, so you are full of crap!!

That line was average at best too so even when we paid for an O-line it was, ok. We just happen to have a starting QB getting paid 526k in 2013 so the team had a lot of leeway to find productive players.

Not just Russell, Kam, Earl, Sherm, Baldwin, Wagner, Kearse all were not being payed yet. In fact the exact opposite of what Cable says is true, and his "new formula" has yet to get us back to the big one. We pretty much bought that championship with good drafting and it will take another (could be this one too) to get us back IMO.

 

[IrishNW]

He won't be here ten years if he is a success, 3 maybe. If ranked high and a contract year we won't re sign.

If hes a great player he will be resigned. what makes you think otherwise? You cant use any of our past O-line players we have lost in free agency because none of them are great players. So what makes you think that?

The team not only has shown, but flat out has come and said they plan to use the young olinemen to help with cap issues. They traded the best olineman we had (Unger) didn't they? That proved to be a disaster IMO (not because of Graham), but the team has clearly shown a disregard to keeping experienced (ie more expensive) olinemen here.

Read Cables latest comments on the subject....

http://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-se...was-as-good-as-any-guard-in-the-nfl-last-year

"The way the free agent market is nowadays, if you want to pay all those linemen, then you won’t have the quarterback, you won’t have the receiver, you won’t have our tight end," Cable said. "You wouldn’t have our linebackers. You wouldn’t have our corners. You wouldn’t have our D-linemen.

"And so, I’ve always said, and I’ve said this publicly before, when you build a team, pay those guys who hit the quarterback and cover people and score touchdowns. And we’ll manage the rest. And it’s worked. We all have a championship ring because of it."

Ohhh....BTW Tom. You won that championship with the highest paid Oline in the NFL in 2013, so you are full of crap!!

John Schneider has flat out said in one of his interviews that not paying the O-line was not their intention, its just the way the chips fell. (I dont remember which interview it was maybe a pre draft one). Its pretty obvious to me what has transpired with the o-line. If they have a player on the o-line worth paying he will be paid, they will not overpay for below average players simply because there is a shortage of great players at that position.

 

[Seymour]

John Schneider has flat out said in one of his interviews that not paying the O-line was not their intention, its just the way the chips fell. (I dont remember which interview it was maybe a pre draft one). Its pretty obvious to me what has transpired with the o-line. If they have a player on the o-line worth paying he will be paid, they will not overpay for below average players simply because there is a shortage of great players at that position.

Yet they have drafted 16 olinemen since getting here and not 1 worth signing to an extension besides Unger who was drafted before they got here (and they traded anyway)?

Anything wrong here?

 

[IrishNW]

John Schneider has flat out said in one of his interviews that not paying the O-line was not their intention, its just the way the chips fell. (I dont remember which interview it was maybe a pre draft one). Its pretty obvious to me what has transpired with the o-line. If they have a player on the o-line worth paying he will be paid, they will not overpay for below average players simply because there is a shortage of great players at that position.

Yet they have drafted 16 olinemen since getting here and not 1 worth signing to an extension besides Unger who was drafted before they got here (and they traded anyway)?

Anything wrong here?

I dont really understand how your point relates to resigning good offensive lineman. I get that your trying to insinuate that Tom Cable is a bad coach but again what does that have to do with resigning our offensive lineman?

 

[Seymour]

John Schneider has flat out said in one of his interviews that not paying the O-line was not their intention, its just the way the chips fell. (I dont remember which interview it was maybe a pre draft one). Its pretty obvious to me what has transpired with the o-line. If they have a player on the o-line worth paying he will be paid, they will not overpay for below average players simply because there is a shortage of great players at that position.

Yet they have drafted 16 olinemen since getting here and not 1 worth signing to an extension besides Unger who was drafted before they got here (and they traded anyway)?

Anything wrong here?

I dont really understand how your point relates to resigning good offensive lineman. I get that your trying to insinuate that Tom Cable is a bad coach but again what does that have to do with resigning our offensive lineman?

My point is, there is a serious evaluation problem if none of 16 guys they chose are worth re-signing. It's their own doing, no getting around that.

 

[IrishNW]

John Schneider has flat out said in one of his interviews that not paying the O-line was not their intention, its just the way the chips fell. (I dont remember which interview it was maybe a pre draft one). Its pretty obvious to me what has transpired with the o-line. If they have a player on the o-line worth paying he will be paid, they will not overpay for below average players simply because there is a shortage of great players at that position.

Yet they have drafted 16 olinemen since getting here and not 1 worth signing to an extension besides Unger who was drafted before they got here (and they traded anyway)?

Anything wrong here?

I dont really understand how your point relates to resigning good offensive lineman. I get that your trying to insinuate that Tom Cable is a bad coach but again what does that have to do with resigning our offensive lineman?

My point is, there is a serious evaluation problem if none of 16 guys they chose are worth re-signing. It's their own doing, no getting around that.

So your saying that we have wrongfully evaluated our free agent offensive lineman?

 

[Seymour]

So your saying that we have wrongfully evaluated our free agent offensive lineman?

Not at all. History is saying that is likely though.
I don't think we will know that till game 1 if the process is at all like the last few seasons. That said I have serious doubts about Joeckel but how could one not really? Fant could make a leap and we could be better anyway, plus the addition of Pocic could be enough. What I do know is this will be key 1 on how far we go IMO. The lack of O crushed the D last year, and the older we get the worse that gets.

 

[IrishNW]

So your saying that we have wrongfully evaluated our free agent offensive lineman?

Not at all. History is saying that is likely though.
I don't think we will know that till game 1 if the process is at all like the last few seasons. That said I have serious doubts about Joeckel but how could one not really? Fant could make a leap and we could be better anyway, plus the addition of Pocic could be enough. What I do know is this will be key 1 on how far we go IMO. The lack of O crushed the D last year, and the older we get the worse that gets.

I think if we have a little more patience with this o-line we will be presently surprised

 

[Josea16]

Well I feel so much better knowing we signed "the best guard in all of football" during the off season.

In Cable we trust.....one.....more.... season.

"This guy played left guard last year, and I don’t know if there was a better guy playing left guard in football last year. But people don’t talk about that because in October he tore his ACL. And now he’s a free agent. Jacksonville must be done with him. They don’t want to pick up the option and blah, blah, blah. It’s like, ‘I’ll take him.’

http://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-se...was-as-good-as-any-guard-in-the-nfl-last-year

League average is all the OL needs to be for the team to be dominate. And Joekel is league average at LT unlike Fant.

 

[seahawkfreak]

John Schneider has flat out said in one of his interviews that not paying the O-line was not their intention, its just the way the chips fell. (I dont remember which interview it was maybe a pre draft one). Its pretty obvious to me what has transpired with the o-line. If they have a player on the o-line worth paying he will be paid, they will not overpay for below average players simply because there is a shortage of great players at that position.

Yet they have drafted 16 olinemen since getting here and not 1 worth signing to an extension besides Unger who was drafted before they got here (and they traded anyway)?

Anything wrong here?

I dont really understand how your point relates to resigning good offensive lineman. I get that your trying to insinuate that Tom Cable is a bad coach but again what does that have to do with resigning our offensive lineman?

So if Walter Jones or Joe Thomas, yeah sure. The team obviously has issues with investing in O-linemen that are not worth the value one could spend on another position, namely defense positions.

Seahawks GM John Schneider: 'Extremely hard' to find O-linemen

"When you're constructing a team, especially in the way we are in the salary cap era, you're going to be focusing on keeping key players," Schneider said. "It so happens for us that the way we've built this, defensively we've been pretty heavy. We want to run the ball, we want to play good defense, and then obviously our quarterback has taken off right now. So being able to protect him is huge for us, and it's always been an area of concentration for us."

"What I tell people all the time it's an area of concentration for everybody around the National Football League," Schneider said. "It's extremely hard right now to find offensive linemen. It's just a position over the last several years that has not been especially strong in the draft. You can see it when I talk to college coaches." ............This has been talked about many times here.

 

[brimsalabim]

How much does a good OT cost compared to bringing in Kap as a backup QB? If we had adequate tackles we might not be so desperate for an experienced back up QB ( and only ones that can run for their lives)

 

[ivotuk]

How much does a good OT cost compared to bringing in Kap as a backup QB? If we had adequate tackles we might not be so desperate for an experienced back up QB ( and only ones that can run for their lives)

Kaep = minimum wage

Russell Okung = 13.5 million per year. We don't have that kind of money.

 

[xgeoff]

"What I tell people all the time it's an area of concentration for everybody around the National Football League," Schneider said. "It's extremely hard right now to find offensive linemen. It's just a position over the last several years that has not been especially strong in the draft. You can see it when I talk to college coaches." ............This has been talked about many times here.

We talk about this all the time but I think people keep forgetting that there is a real issue with OL talent eval for our team. No team has invested more draft capital on Offensive Linemen than we have. It is *not* that we have neglected the OL in our plans. The problem has been that our choices have not really panned out.

Look at Ifedi last year. We invested a first round pick in him and he was terrible. I'm not giving up on him, he can get better, and hopefully he will, but he was not good. The Patriots picked Joe Thuney in the 3rd round and he started all year for the Super Bowl champs and made the Pro Football Writers All Rookie team.

Britt has finally worked out at C but he was not good at G and T, and he was taken in the 2nd round. We had Jahri Evans in camp and cut him. He went on to return to the Saints and started every game for them, receiving decent scores from PFF for his efforts. Why did we let him go?

This is going to be a critical year for the OL. There are so many guys competing for spots now, I think it is reasonable to be hopeful that a decent number from that group are going to step up.

But when I see us pass on Jahri Evans last year then sign Luke Joeckel with $7 mil of guaranteed money this year, I have to scratch my head and wonder why. I keep thinking of Evans playing at G for us last year, allowing Ifedi to stay at RT where he played in College and I think things might have worked out much better for us.

If we can protect Russ, we will have success.

 

[brimsalabim]

Outstanding post!

 

[Seymour]

We talk about this all the time but I think people keep forgetting that there is a real issue with OL talent eval for our team. No team has invested more draft capital on Offensive Linemen than we have. It is *not* that we have neglected the OL in our plans. The problem has been that our choices have not really panned out.

Look at Ifedi last year. We invested a first round pick in him and he was terrible. I'm not giving up on him, he can get better, and hopefully he will, but he was not good. The Patriots picked Joe Thuney in the 3rd round and he started all year for the Super Bowl champs and made the Pro Football Writers All Rookie team.

Britt has finally worked out at C but he was not good at G and T, and he was taken in the 2nd round. We had Jahri Evans in camp and cut him. He went on to return to the Saints and started every game for them, receiving decent scores from PFF for his efforts. Why did we let him go?

This is going to be a critical year for the OL. There are so many guys competing for spots now, I think it is reasonable to be hopeful that a decent number from that group are going to step up.

But when I see us pass on Jahri Evans last year then sign Luke Joeckel with $7 mil of guaranteed money this year, I have to scratch my head and wonder why. I keep thinking of Evans playing at G for us last year, allowing Ifedi to stay at RT where he played in College and I think things might have worked out much better for us.

If we can protect Russ, we will have success.

One of the better posts I've read here in sometime, great job. You are spot on, and I've been making this point for going on 3 years. Many here simply will not listen or believe that Cable is responsible for the ingredients of his crap sandwich. And doesn't matter how many Schnieder or Cable quotes we post to the contrary, or how many examples of poor choices you make, they simply will not accept he can be that bad in evaluation.
I will bet anyone here $100.00 that the line that starts game 1 will not be the same by game 4 (excluding injury as an excuse). The fact is, Cable has to see actual game film, then he can determine if something will work or not.

 

[toffee]

Got to wonder why Pete focused on signing free agent guards? Lang the one they really wanted and he's a guard, Pete praised Joeckel's play as guard last season, and, Oday Aboushi was also a guard. Are Pete and Cable confident in Fant at LT although he was rank the worst in the league last season? Then we let our starting RT go ....

We focused on guards, not tackles, ummmmm

 

[AgentDib]

There's no mystery behind releasing Jahri Evans. He would have taken the spot of a younger guy, they were planning for the long term, and they thought they could get by in the short term better than they did. When they said that they made a mistake and got too young with the roster that's what they are talking about. Joeckel is just 25 years old and is not a comparable decision.

Also, be careful with how you count draft capital. We have spent a high volume of picks but we're not talking yearly top 10 selections. If you were to weight by draft pick chart value I'd bet we're much closer to the middle than the top, particularly if you emphasize recent years.

 

[jammerhawk]

Each of the young starters from last season has been getting yoked up this off season and Fant looks ripped. Glowinski who was reported to be the strongest guy on the team last season is apparently in great shape too. Britt has taken the role of leader by getting and keeping the group working as a unit during the off season. Ifedi is to move to his natural position of RT, and the team has acquired better competition for each of the spots.

Things with the OLine might be surprisingly improved if the group from last season has grown with experience. The lamentations of a few here fail to appreciate there are zero Walter Jones Quality OLinemen in the whole league these days. Russell Okung for $13.5 million??? Riiiiiight? Are you kidding? I frankly think our approach is better than many other teams and we need to just let the team build their OLine organically rather than buy one. I would not have paid Sweezy or Okung or even Unger the $ they are being paid now for the results delivered principally in staying healthy or for playing ability, each had issues leading to them leaving. Last season's slow development of the OLine won't happen b/c of the experience gained by the whole group, they at least will start at a higher level. If any work out their 2nd contracts will be measured in terms of their genuine value rather than need.

I like the steps the team is taking with the OLine and although the team is paying less than most for their guys they are putting together a group of potentially capable players who with the experience gained in the system. I thought Fant improved exponentially over the season and seems to be a genuine find worth allowing to develop. Adding Joeckel adds a physically talented under achiever who's highest and best position might just be LG, but who has some experience at LT. There is also competitive insurance on the roster with Odhiambo, Aboushi, and Pocic who each might take a spot from the more experienced guys, and then the others to develop Roos, Senior, Hunt, Myers, and Pericak.

Let's all wait and watch b/c there could be a surprising improvement from the OL this season.