A 12 man question from a dolphin fan.

[Djphinfan]

Been loud fans for 30 years now. To be brutally honest, I don't think it is the true hardcore, longtime fan that is behind the noise anymore. Going to the stadium on Sundays to be loud has become the draw.

This is so true and why I keep trying to convince residents/fans/city officials that if the building can inspire the fanbase into becoming a 12 the man, the monetary benefit is unreal, you won't have to worry about unsold tickets..the culture will build..but, you have to have the right building to start, that's just my opinion, if you don't have the building condusive to what were talking about here, the fervor doesn't happen to this degree.

 

[Djphinfan]

Djphinfan, do you wish your team had taken Wilson over Tannehill? Or would you have still kept Tannehill?

I did..and of course because of how I felt predraft, still do, I like Ryan, he's got a high ceiling, I can't think of another player who could post a thousand yard season as a receiver in a major conference then flip and become a Qb at the highest level, we've seen the opposite happen, Qb turned receiver, but not the other way..

That being said, I'm on the record saying that I would take Wilson in the first over Ryan..I'm a draft geek, so when I studied Wilson I saw someone who could create more space than anyone who I'd ever seen play Qb..What I mean by that is he doesn't just escape, or slide, or evade, he is so gifted with specific athleticism and intelligence that when he does escape he takes certain angles that creates extra space in front of him to reset his platform, to avoid a hit, or to create a lane..

 

[shawnsim]

Unfortunately Djphinfan I think either a fanbase has it, or it doesn't.

Obviously winning helps, which IMO has been the Dolphins problem for quite a while. But even when Marino was throwing it all over the place in the 80's, the Orange Bowl wasn't exactly a road nightmare for teams like the Clink is.

Seattle sports fans have a pretty big inferiority complex chip on their shoulder, and we've had it all our lives. This IMO is the main reason we go insane at games, we want to make sure the rest of the nation knows where we're at, and takes notice.

But there's nothing wrong with starting a Dolphin fan group (kinda like soccer clubs do). Organize a group, recruit other die hard Dolphin fans, all buy your seats in the same section, and go freakin' nuts and watch the snowball effect.

I disagree sir, the orange bowl had an incredible 12 the man reputation..thought most folks knew that, A lot of where the decibels comes from has to do with the architecture of the building itself, proximity is so important, the orange bowl had it all, and the place we play in now is the complete opposite, farthest distance from stands to field in the league, which in turn creates a more passive crowd then if you were right on top of the action..

 

[shawnsim]

Derp. my well worded answer was great but..

 

[BlueTalon]

Here's my question??...you guys have had the reputation when you use to play at the kingdome as being the 12 the man and being loud..Has the art of becoming the most intimidating place to play evolved, what I mean is, are their ways where your able to get the fanbase on the same page, for example, ( getting everyone in their seats before kickoff, everyone in the building standing and cheering when your on defense, everyone standing and cheering when your in a fourth quarter of a blowout in a preseason game) etc, basically is there any communication going on, and message being relayed to the public as to getting even smarter when it comes to a home field advantage..I know there was a committee to break the Guinness record?, are their more things happening like that?, does the stadium P.A people get involved, and to what degree, is their emails from the pr dept of the franchise?, radio messages? Signs at the stadium? Anything that could inform the masses to continue to evolve..

The push to break the world record started with a former Seahawk, but other than that, there was no involvement by anyone in the Seahawks organization. It was completely organic (if I'm using that word right). Contrast that with the recent effort by Kansas City, there were official prompts all over, including the scoreboard telling fans to "make them hear you in Seattle." Also, for a laugh (and a contrast in organic-ness), google Ram Rules.

Bottom line -- IMO, keep any attempt to educate the fan base as unofficial as humanly possible. Probably the best source for you to try to educate the masses in Miami is sports radio hosts down there. That is unofficial, but still has a reach.

The more involved the Dolphins organization gets, the more potential for embarrassment there is. :twocents:

 

[chris98251]

Older fart here, The Huskies going way back had a reputation of being one of the loudest stadiums to play in, maybe it was the tilt of the stands, but they had always been loud. The Kingdome being what it was a building of concrete was a loud place anyway, Bill the Beerman was a gift to us having all his energy and would as stated (initially was a vendor employed by the Seahawks) would circle the stadium getting the wave started as well as be a cheerleader. That would just ramp up as the game went on. The fact that the fans here have a inate education and timing for the game and use it to peak their noise I attribute to the fans themselves. I know I went to the NBA championship games both times in 77 and in 79 that played in the Colisium here, again unprecedented noise, the building literally vibrated, Players from the Bulletts and the Bucks that played the Sonics would have problems on the court hearing, the disruption during free throws as far as background to shoot was new.

Go present day, Paul Allen wanted to give tribute to the Kingdomes reputation and the Fans when he Built the Clink, he wanted it to provide that same enviroment and out of respect to the 12th man make that same impact. I think he succeeded.

 

[BlueTalon]

[youtube]0-d-Hf5Zzn4[/youtube]

 

[SalishHawkFan]

If you want the history of how it came to be, it all started with the Kingdome. It got loud in there. But what really started it all was the noise meter. It had Ted Nugent concert, jet airplane, etc. The meter would go up as we screamed louder. Having gotten used to making the most obscene amounts of noise, it didn't take long to notice when the other team had the ball, they'd often get false starts because they couldn't hear over the din. This quickly became the goal of every fan in the stadium. Our team needed all the help they could get and we gave it to them. Naturally, it became obvious not to scream when our own offense was on the field.

No one had really figured that out in other stadiums because other stadiums didn't get as loud as the Kingdome.

So we've got years - decades in fact - of experience that other teams fans simply don't have.

I swear, knowing how loud Clink can be, that it still isn't as loud as the Kingdome was. At times, sure, beastquake, the NFC Championship game, etc. that Romo botched snap, those moments were loud, but day in, day out, the Kingdome was insane.

So we've got history.

 

[BlueThunder]

Ok, here's my take. I've been a rabid fan since the early 80's, so I watched the 12th man evolution from pretty much it's beginning, back when Zorn was flinging the ball around the Kingdome, and Bill the Beerman was a Sunday staple. It all started with the WAVE, something we didn't start (I believe the Washington Huskies started it, but I've heard arguments that some other college team started it and we copied it), but Seahawks fans brought it into the national spotlight, and it started to be copied around the league. Back then, when the Wave was still "cool", it started out as a thing to just get the fans into the game. But I remember getting pissed because they would do it when we were on offense, like that would fire up the team or something. Over time, and gradually at some point, the fans started to realize that it was hurting our offense when there's this damn wave going 'round the dome when our guys were trying to communicate on offense. So fairly soon, Bill would only start the wave when the other team was on offense, and sit on his hands when we were operating on offense. It was around that time that the team realized we were actually affecting the opposing players, and the team took an unprecedented step and rewarded us by retiring the #12 in honor of the raucous crowd. Fast forward a couple years, and the NFL decided that these uppity Seahawks fans should be punished for their fanatical support of their team, and worse, it was creating problems for the teams that brought in the most money (Oh, did I say that out loud? I meant the 'popular' teams). A crowd noise rule was actually approved by the league, and was tested during a game against, if I remember correctly, the Denver Broncos and a whining John Elway. They threw the flag for excessive crowd noise, costing us 5 yards and I remember getting SO PISSED! But I was rewarded with the Kingdome crowd getting twice as loud on the next play. We were gonna flag our own team right back into a safety if necessary. It was such a proud moment! After making our stand that fateful day, that rule kinda flew out the window, never to be seen again. So anyways, over the years, the Seahawks fans have refined the art of opposing team disruption, knowing when to get loud and when to STFU. Now, it's a science for us, and a badge of honor for every fan of the Seahawks. It's become it's own "thing", and every player and coach on our team LOVES it! Such a "real" and huge advantage. I guess my only advice to you, Dolphins fan, is to look up every Dolphin message board or any other social media that is Dolphins-related, and spread this word... and tell them to tell every other fan that they know to spread the word. I think you 'could' make a difference if you do this. Good luck to you guys. I've always kinda liked the 'fins, or at least never held any ill will towards them. I was a big Marino fan back in the day.

 

[Steve2222]

Been to countless games at Cent Link and have been to the past two games at Carolina and the Falcons game in the playoffs last year. Panthers fans only get "loud" on 3rd down. It's nowhere near deafening. The Georgia Dome was loud, really loud. I'll admit that. Could have just been because it was a Divisional Round game.

CentLink is hard to explain. Fans of other teams need to do themselves a service and watch their team play in Seattle against the Hawks. It's just a huge loud party all game long. I've been to all the memorable Seahawks games there, besides the Failmary. The Beastquake was by far and away the craziest I'd ever seen the place.

 

[mistaowen]

I think the Dolphins have a lot to look forward to. When everything clicks, people will start consistently showing up. It's hard for a fan base to be committed when they feel like it's a waste of money to watch your team lose at home. We've been pretty spoiled for the past 10ish years having a team that consistently wins at home, and that only adds to the 12th man element. Being in a division against Tom Brady hasn't helped either, even during the Ricky Williams days. But he is retiring within the next 3-4 years if he stays true to his word, and you guys are building a solid team. Not sure I would have made the Mike Wallace signing but he is young enough that it could be worth the money. Other than that I have liked your draft picks. Complete overhaul of a team takes time and as much as it sucks to say, just hang in there. Once your team starts consistently making enough noise to be a playoff team, people will make sure to be at the home games.

 

[mistaowen]

Ok, here's my take. I've been a rabid fan since the early 80's, so I watched the 12th man evolution from pretty much it's beginning, back when Zorn was flinging the ball around the Kingdome, and Bill the Beerman was a Sunday staple. It all started with the WAVE, something we didn't start (I believe the Washington Huskies started it, but I've heard arguments that some other college team started it and we copied it), but Seahawks fans brought it into the national spotlight, and it started to be copied around the league. Back then, when the Wave was still "cool", it started out as a thing to just get the fans into the game. But I remember getting pissed because they would do it when we were on offense, like that would fire up the team or something. Over time, and gradually at some point, the fans started to realize that it was hurting our offense when there's this damn wave going 'round the dome when our guys were trying to communicate on offense. So fairly soon, Bill would only start the wave when the other team was on offense, and sit on his hands when we were operating on offense. It was around that time that the team realized we were actually affecting the opposing players, and the team took an unprecedented step and rewarded us by retiring the #12 in honor of the raucous crowd. Fast forward a couple years, and the NFL decided that these uppity Seahawks fans should be punished for their fanatical support of their team, and worse, it was creating problems for the teams that brought in the most money (Oh, did I say that out loud? I meant the 'popular' teams). A crowd noise rule was actually approved by the league, and was tested during a game against, if I remember correctly, the Denver Broncos and a whining John Elway. They threw the flag for excessive crowd noise, costing us 5 yards and I remember getting SO PISSED! But I was rewarded with the Kingdome crowd getting twice as loud on the next play. We were gonna flag our own team right back into a safety if necessary. It was such a proud moment! After making our stand that fateful day, that rule kinda flew out the window, never to be seen again. So anyways, over the years, the Seahawks fans have refined the art of opposing team disruption, knowing when to get loud and when to STFU. Now, it's a science for us, and a badge of honor for every fan of the Seahawks. It's become it's own "thing", and every player and coach on our team LOVES it! Such a "real" and huge advantage. I guess my only advice to you, Dolphins fan, is to look up every Dolphin message board or any other social media that is Dolphins-related, and spread this word... and tell them to tell every other fan that they know to spread the word. I think you 'could' make a difference if you do this. Good luck to you guys. I've always kinda liked the 'fins, or at least never held any ill will towards them. I was a big Marino fan back in the day.

Massive virtual fist bump. Great post.

 

[chris98251]

Oh to add to all this, we do not need a big video board to tell us how and when to yell like has been approved this year by the league for the rest of the teams. To also add the opposition has on several occasions complained to the league that we do what we do with artificial noise enhancers and speakers etc, each time it has been investigated all accusations are and have been proven false.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Nice posts. Obviously the history is pretty deep here.

I'll just say this. It has to be an individual thing first. When your defense is on the field, you don't sit. EVER. Even here in Seattle, there are many newer season ticket holders. The first game of the year we'd invariably have new STHs behind us who'd implore us to sit down. We'd politely tell them that this is Seattle and this is what we signed up for when going to the games. And it really usually resulted in a somewhat dumbfounded look followed by a look of, "Yeah, what was I thinking". The main thing though, is that it starts with you.

As far as noise goes. You stand and yell. You don't do it when they get to the line. You start yelling when the team is middling around in the TV time out. At first, you might feel sort of foolish since most others around you will be silent. It's ok though. You're breaking the ice. Every other fan is just waiting to not be the dork that is yelling for no reason. Get on it and stay on it. Realistically, when the offense ambles on the field, you start yelling. You can pause for a swig of beer when the play concludes. But you should be yelling again before the backs and receivers get on their side of the LOS before the huddle.

Fans, even ones that are prone to sitting on their hands will follow suit.

 

[Laloosh]

I've been here before with some questions, and it's because of the respect I have for what your doing as your identity, and some research that I'm doing in terms of us getting our own upgrades..Finally, thanks to your fanbase, the masses are understanding what's happening when it comes to serious home field advantage..I still on my own boards have to debate that the advantage is real, the proximity, the blueprint of the link, the knowledge of the base all works perfectly to have a performance of your own.

Here's my question??...you guys have had the reputation when you use to play at the kingdome as being the 12 the man and being loud..Has the art of becoming the most intimidating place to play evolved, what I mean is, are their ways where your able to get the fanbase on the same page, for example, ( getting everyone in their seats before kickoff, everyone in the building standing and cheering when your on defense, everyone standing and cheering when your in a fourth quarter of a blowout in a preseason game) etc, basically is there any communication going on, and message being relayed to the public as to getting even smarter when it comes to a home field advantage..I know there was a committee to break the Guinness record?, are their more things happening like that?, does the stadium P.A people get involved, and to what degree, is their emails from the pr dept of the franchise?, radio messages? Signs at the stadium? Anything that could inform the masses to continue to evolve..

The preseason game in the fourth quarter, you guys were standing and cheering for the scrubs in a blowout, this to me is evolving your 12 the man with a purpose, it's almost creating a strategy, strengthening your identity, strengthening your advantage for future opponents, increasing the reputation, y'all know what I'm trying to say?, is that possible, or is all just organic?

Thanks for the time, good luck on the season, and jftr, I thought Russell Wilson should of been selected top 10 in his draft..

Is that you, Kaepernick?

 

[Rose City Hawk]

If you want the history of how it came to be, it all started with the Kingdome. It got loud in there. But what really started it all was the noise meter. It had Ted Nugent concert, jet airplane, etc. The meter would go up as we screamed louder. Having gotten used to making the most obscene amounts of noise, it didn't take long to notice when the other team had the ball, they'd often get false starts because they couldn't hear over the din. This quickly became the goal of every fan in the stadium. Our team needed all the help they could get and we gave it to them. Naturally, it became obvious not to scream when our own offense was on the field.

No one had really figured that out in other stadiums because other stadiums didn't get as loud as the Kingdome.

So we've got years - decades in fact - of experience that other teams fans simply don't have.

I swear, knowing how loud Clink can be, that it still isn't as loud as the Kingdome was. At times, sure, beastquake, the NFC Championship game, etc. that Romo botched snap, those moments were loud, but day in, day out, the Kingdome was insane.

So we've got history.

Man this is exactly how I was going to put it, I remember that meter, I was only 6 or 7 but I remember it. Bill the Beerman, the wave, all of it. Maybe it's because my ears are 42 yrs old now, but I swear the Kingdome was louder than the Clink. You know that weird feedback loop thing you get inside your head sometimes when the harmonics are right, well I remember that going and going in the Kingdome. I do love the Clink though, it is a beautiful place.

 

[susitnagal]

Djphinfan this is a topic that has been relevent in my household for alot of years. Miami has a few setbacks as far as fanbase and especially since Marino retired. I'm surprised at the lack of animosity from longtime Seahawk fans and proud, honestly, since Marino had our number MANY times in playoffs including his second to last game: the final game in the kingdome even (Proud that my fellow Hawks fans have let this rest since our team is no longer AFC)
Firstly- you have not had a winning year since Marino. Nuff said. Fans are fickle.
Secondly- your have a LARGE number of fair-weather fans in the winter...mostly from northern states like, oh, say New York, New Jersey, etc... (oh shit they play in your division...) and really they are the ones with the money in many cases so they buy seats that local fans can't afford.
Thirdly-Owners. You are a fan, you know what I mean.
Just for the record Dolphin organization you might want to stop finding really great recievers and trading them away for chump change...

 

[SeaTown81]

Everyone has given you good replies and summed up most of what I'd say.

The only thing I'd add is that it all comes down to pride. Seattle fans take pride in our rep. We take pride in making an impact. There is a bond with the team that comes from this. The players (especially defense) and fans are in unison. Fans cheering on the players, players egging on the fans. Seattle fans don't just cheer during big moments or reacting to great plays like most places. They cheer, period. I've been to a lot of stadiums, including some of the perceived loudest (KC, Min, NO). Seattle doesn't have the market cornered on having good fans. But there's something different. The fans take a lot of pride in making their presence felt. A big part of it is very hard to describe. It's something special. Something genuine and organic. Something you can't try and create. Something that doesn't come from "Get loud!" prompts on the big screen, or organized It has to grow over time.

 

[SeaTown81]

Oh, and here is why you have to let it grow organically. Because if you try and force it, THIS happens.

[youtube]0-d-Hf5Zzn4[/youtube]

 

[jammerhawk]

It has become organic now as well and being loud is part of the Seahawks fan experience. That experience of supporting our team as a fanatic has become participatory rather than passive, not that it isn't for any team's serious fans. We all encourage each other at the games and are proud of our efforts as the false start penalty scoreboard continues to reinforce that we are helping our team by making it tougher for the opposition causing them to lose some field position or disruptive of the offensive timing or execution.

We are told again and again we help by the team and all the players, it is a badge of honour to have been recognized and reinforced by the team in all the many ways they acknowledge with thanks the efforts of us being 12s. Each of us has reminded and/or in one way or another helped those around us during the games from reminding to be louder on 3rd down, to timing the noise, to high-fiving fist bumping or relishing the success when our efforts have real or imagined negative result for the opposing team. The are stadium cultures and being part of being part of the 12th man requires participatory involvement by being intelligently loud.

The thing is, it works, and it's fun. It always is a great feeling to leave the game having done your part to help. What is interesting is many folks know you were at the game because your voice is left behind and sometimes doesn't return for several days. That becomes a reminder of your fanaticism reinforced.

Other teams have challenged the loudness of our home field. They may be loud, but are pretenders for the title, we have history on our side, penalties created foolishly by the league to punish our team for their fans being determinedly loud, records, false start total evidence. KC is the latest upstart who after several decades of horrible results has a reawakened fan base looking for acknowledgement. Congrats to them for the efforts. When they pass our false start records we'll talk, but we 12s will simply take back the number on Monday night when the Saints come to our house to be assaulted with calculated fan noise. Guinness records needs to measure the number for the whole game and not some spike.

Did I mention the experience is just good fun! Loud and proud of being a 12.