Alex Collins

[dogorama]

disappointed in AC's performance last night.

dropping that first pass was the worst, he'll catch that most of the time.

His running opportunities with the first team were disappointing, a consecutive 3rd and one and a 4th and one with little room to work with, almost got the 1st with a 2nd surge but not enough.

Not a good way to start the game and get in a groove.

I was hoping to see some 1st and 2nd down runs with the first team to start him off.

C-Mike got all those and looked great. AC got some similar opportunities later with the second team and did OK.

Maybe in week 3 AC will have a better chance to show what he can do.

We're going to be seeing less and less of the bubble players going into week's 3 & 4 and to tell you the truth I would rather see more of Pope. AC has pretty much squandered his precious few opportunities and it is starting to look like the most he can hope for is the practice squad.

The brutal reality of the NotForLong.

 

[Trenchbroom]

disappointed in AC's performance last night.

dropping that first pass was the worst, he'll catch that most of the time.

His running opportunities with the first team were disappointing, a consecutive 3rd and one and a 4th and one with little room to work with, almost got the 1st with a 2nd surge but not enough.

Not a good way to start the game and get in a groove.

I was hoping to see some 1st and 2nd down runs with the first team to start him off.

C-Mike got all those and looked great. AC got some similar opportunities later with the second team and did OK.

Maybe in week 3 AC will have a better chance to show what he can do.

We're going to be seeing less and less of the bubble players going into week's 3 & 4 and to tell you the truth I would rather see more of Pope. AC has pretty much squandered his precious few opportunities and it is starting to look like the most he can hope for is the practice squad.

The brutal reality of the NotForLong.

Pope has been pretty amazing against the third stringers. Competition Pete needs to give him some first half plays IMO.

 

[gabel]

I could not help but be disappointed in what I saw. After all the things I have been reading about him. His first 2 touches were 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 plays, he did not get it done . I thought he showed a lack of toughness and strength. I also thought there was a huge drop off between Michael's play and Alex Collins who wasn't nearly as explosive. I think he is good at dodging tacklers the rest of his game looks average or below average. I thought Pope looked much better (faster and stronger).

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

I could not help but be disappointed in what I saw. After all the things I have been reading about him. His first 2 touches were 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 plays, he did not get it done . I thought he showed a lack of toughness and strength. I also thought there was a huge drop off between Michael's play and Alex Collins who wasn't nearly as explosive. I think he is good at dodging tacklers the rest of his game looks average or below average. I thought Pope looked much better (faster and stronger).

I felt somewhat mixed.

I've been in an offseason debate with some of the guys that sit around me on Collins. I tend to see him as Turbin 2.0. He's a good player physically but tends to not play up to that size frequently. On one of those plays mentioned -- he really had no chance, with one guy wrapped around his ankles and multiple defenders on high. They just blew up the run before he could have gotten started. I've seen Lynch handled like that plenty of times. Just got to give credit to the defense.

I did see him break multiple tackles on the catch. And was able to give a good stiff arm to gain extra yardage on a run. Would like to see him bust out one of those, "I'm going to run through your face" kind of Lynch runs where he just goes after a guy and punishes him. Overall however I felt like he did fine and flashed some quality.

The difference between C-Mike and AC360 is pretty stark though. Michael even runs harder. I like Collins -- but I have to wonder if he couldn't be a surprise cut. Because Rawls/Michael seem to be cut of the same cloth as Collins but clearly better at this point. Pete like uniqueness and Collins isn't providing that over RB1 and RB2.

I'd say it's too early to cut him loose. But at the same time, you'd be letting someone else go that can provide something your top guys don't. Will be interesting to watch these next two games.

 

[tonyseahawk]

disappointed in AC's performance last night.

dropping that first pass was the worst, he'll catch that most of the time.

His running opportunities with the first team were disappointing, a consecutive 3rd and one and a 4th and one with little room to work with, almost got the 1st with a 2nd surge but not enough.

Not a good way to start the game and get in a groove.

I was hoping to see some 1st and 2nd down runs with the first team to start him off.

C-Mike got all those and looked great. AC got some similar opportunities later with the second team and did OK.

Maybe in week 3 AC will have a better chance to show what he can do.

We're going to be seeing less and less of the bubble players going into week's 3 & 4 and to tell you the truth I would rather see more of Pope. AC has pretty much squandered his precious few opportunities and it is starting to look like the most he can hope for is the practice squad.

The brutal reality of the NotForLong.

His lack of explosiveness is going to be the end all for him. I dont see any flashes. Just seems average. That wont cut it behind guys that can run and cut better than he does and do it only 2 feet off the ground. He run's straight up. Pretty hard to power through to get that 1 yard for a 1st down when your not able to drive through with the legs

 

[ACFan]

I just hope to see him get 1 carry on 1st and 10 before the preseason is done.

 

[bigskydoc]

He looks like a rookie in a tough place who is getting some tunnel vision.

He gets the ball, but there is no hole where the play is designed to go. He has to decide, do I stick with the called play or do I ad lib knowing the risks. If he hits the hole and it opens up for him, he gets kudos from Cable. Trusting the blocking and sticking to the called play is a huge emphasis for Cable. If he hits the hole, but it doesn't open, he gets smaller kudos from Cable for sticking to the plan. If he ad libs and blows it, he likely gets cut. If he ad libs and breaks a big one, he still likely gets an earful from Cable.

Michael faced the same dilemma and struggled with buying into the system until he returned.

It seems Collins knew about this, and just stuck with the called play when he should have gone a little off script.

He completely blew his blocking assignment on the sack where Minny lit up Wilson. He never even saw the pressure coming from the right side even though it was obvious pre-snap, Wilson seemed to indicate it, and Gilliam clearly indicated which guy Collins was supposed to pick up when he saw the 2 on 1 after the snap. Tunnel Vision/

Perhaps he settles down, opens his vision, and learns when to trust the play call and when to go off script, but it looks to be a long road. Given his struggles with receiving, I don't see him making the final cut unless Prosise goes on IR.

 

[hawknation2016]

With Michael and Rawls healthy (knock on wood), Collins becomes redundant. He's likely fighting for a spot on the p-squad, and Pope is currently ahead of him. I think Collins is still dealing with a lingering ankle injury.

 

[CalgaryHawk]

I wonder if Collins is banged up from all the carries he got early in camp. Early camp observations were how quick and powerful he looked and a decent pass catcher, but he's looked the opposite in the two games. That would explain the lack of plays he's had in the preseason. Perhaps he just needs to heal up before we judge him too harshly.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Collins is not a burner so if he cannot find the holes in a tom cable offensive line, he will not be effective.

Vision is key to running behind the Hawks o line and seeing where the openings will be.

This was always Christine Michaels problem but since Michael is cat quick he turn out some plays. The new and improved Michael, understand reads and where's the hole.

If Collins can't see this early and often he might get cut. Too many RBs on the team!

My guess Hawks will keep 3.

1. Michael
2. Rawls
3. Prosise
Practice Squad: Pope

 

[jammerhawk]

Beginning to think Collins doesn't get kept.

As things have played out so far Pope makes the team ahead of Collins aand the team will keep Prosise for now but as he has proven fragile and unreliable the team will want depth beyond Michael and Rawls. Pope is earning a job so far.

 

[Natethegreat]

Way, too early to be giving up on Collins. As in its absurdly ridiculous to be writing him off at this point. He is hesitating right now but if I remember correctly Lynch wasn't all that great here for a year either.
This system is different than what he played in college but he definitely has talent. just needs time.

 

[ACFan]

I wonder if Collins is banged up from all the carries he got early in camp. Early camp observations were how quick and powerful he looked and a decent pass catcher, but he's looked the opposite in the two games. That would explain the lack of plays he's had in the preseason.

^^^This^^^

He was the main workhorse the first two weeks in camp. CPC even admitted to beating him up day after day, trying to get him to fumble. many positive comments about AC's abilities during that time.

Then as preseason starts, CPC said, we have to be careful not to "push him too hard".

Even so, with better opportunities, he'd looked better than he has in games.

maybe in week 3 he'll get those opportunities.

 

[dogorama]

Way, too early to be giving up on Collins. As in its absurdly ridiculous to be writing him off at this point. He is hesitating right now but if I remember correctly Lynch wasn't all that great here for a year either.
This system is different than what he played in college but he definitely has talent. just needs time.

I don't think people are writing him off per se but simply commenting on what they have witnessed and that is in relation to his ability to make the final roster. With two spots assured in Rawls and CMike there is possibly only one spot left w/4-5 backs competing for it. This is the harsh reality of the NFL, you don't get many chances, particularly when you're a late round pick.

What is "absurdly ridiculous" is making a comparison to Marshawn Lynch, a running back who was the 12th player chosen in the 1st round of the draft and had already been a pro-bowler before he got here.

Showing potential in practice may get you on the practice squad, but if you want to make the team you have to show something in a competitive game environment.

 

[Natethegreat]

Way, too early to be giving up on Collins. As in its absurdly ridiculous to be writing him off at this point. He is hesitating right now but if I remember correctly Lynch wasn't all that great here for a year either.
This system is different than what he played in college but he definitely has talent. just needs time.

I don't think people are writing him off per se but simply commenting on what they have witnessed and that is in relation to his ability to make the final roster. With two spots assured in Rawls and CMike there is possibly only one spot left w/4-5 backs competing for it. This is the harsh reality of the NFL, you don't get many chances, particularly when you're a late round pick.

What is "absurdly ridiculous" is making a comparison to Marshawn Lynch, a running back who was the 12th player chosen in the 1st round of the draft and had already been a pro-bowler before he got here.

Showing potential in practice may get you on the practice squad, but if you want to make the team you have to show something in a competitive game environment.

Your making my point. A first round pick that was a pro bowler struggled for an entire year before turning it on the next year.Cable had to work with Lynch to get that talent going and for Lynch to see what he needed to see. You can't make a talent judgment on about ten preseason carries its absurd.
Yes, he isn't lighting the world on fire yet, but the talent is there. I think his time in the SEC means a lot more than a few preseason carries.

 

[dogorama]

Your making my point. A first round pick that was a pro bowler struggled for an entire year before turning it on the next year.Cable had to work with Lynch to get that talent going and for Lynch to see what he needed to see. You can't make a talent judgment on about ten preseason carries its absurd.
Yes, he isn't lighting the world on fire yet, but the talent is there. I think his time in the SEC means a lot more than a few preseason carries.

I appreciate your persistence, but not only am I not making your point, you are missing the point. 1st rounders are always going to get more opportunities and Lynch had already proven that he could play in the NFL, AC has not. He isn't going to get many more opportunities either because the 1's and 2's are going to get most of the looks going forward.

There is another thing working against him and that is that Prosise is a third-rounder and teams don't like to admit that they failed on a pick that high. Best case scenario is that Prosise is stashed on the IR and AC does something spectacular next time he gets an opportunity.

 

[ACFan]

Yes, he isn't lighting the world on fire yet, but the talent is there. I think his time in the SEC means a lot more than a few preseason carries.

I'm trusting the coaches have a better handle on this than we do, from what they have witnessed in practice up until now.


I wish I could pull up the hard stats to demonstrate this, but if you look at the power 5 conferences the past 40 years, and look at how many times a back started as a true freshman, ran for over 1,000 yards their first 3 years, then went pro. you'd probably be looking at a list of 10-12 guys.

From the SEC, there was Herschel Walker and Darren McFadden, Adrian Peterson (Big12) did it in the mid 2000s.

I don't know how long a list it would be, but I'd bet over 90%, if not 100% of the guys on that list were/are multi-year starters in the NFL.

Alex Collins makes that list, and if he really has that talent level (I believe he does) then the coaches won't let him get away, but they really need to give him a good chance to show it these next two weeks.

 

[kearly]

I think Collins is still dealing with a lingering ankle injury.

I think so as well. Seattle wouldn't have touched Collins in the draft if he looked this slow in college. Something is up, and after watching a 2nd time, I'm pretty sure that weight isn't his issue. A sore ankle would sap a guy like Collins more than most.

Practice Squad: Pope

If Pope keeps this up he'll be on an NFL roster guaranteed.

I don't think people are writing him off per se but simply commenting on what they have witnessed and that is in relation to his ability to make the final roster. With two spots assured in Rawls and CMike there is possibly only one spot left w/4-5 backs competing for it. This is the harsh reality of the NFL, you don't get many chances, particularly when you're a late round pick.

What is "absurdly ridiculous" is making a comparison to Marshawn Lynch, a running back who was the 12th player chosen in the 1st round of the draft and had already been a pro-bowler before he got here.

Showing potential in practice may get you on the practice squad, but if you want to make the team you have to show something in a competitive game environment.

Amen brother, Amen.

Alex Collins makes that list, and if he really has that talent level (I believe he does) then the coaches won't let him get away, but they really need to give him a good chance to show it these next two weeks.

I know you are going to fight for your guy, but this particular argument just doesn't hold water. Being productive in college isn't really all that meaningful on its own, as many players are built for college success while lacking the tools for NFL success. Montee Ball had 5000+ rushing yards in college and 83(!) total TDs. He lasted two years before being out of the league.

Collins is in that same boat, he's more of a college production guy than a tools guy. Maybe he can still eke out a nice NFL career, but I wouldn't guarantee anything based off of college production alone.

As a Washington Huskies fan, I've had to mourn the fact that Bishop Sankey has been an NFL embarrasment despite the fact that he was a phenomenal and productive back for my team (4,063 rush/rec yards, 38 TDs in basically just two seasons). He was amazing, and he even had good tools, but he's been terrible in the NFL. It happens.

It's too early to judge Collins but boy has he looked bad in the first two preseason games. Hopefully it is an undisclosed injury holding him back and he turns into an NFL caliber player.

 

[LolaRox]

I am disappointed in what I've seen of Alex, but most of that is probably my fault for letting the 'camp hype' boost my expectations.

I think Pope has earned some carries with the starters and I hope he gets them ahead of Collins in the next game. This might be difficult to do because they also have to work Prosise in too.

 

[ACFan]

Side by side anaylsis of C-Mike and A. Collins' first 6 carries.
**************************************************************

C-Mike


1-10-SEA 3 (10:44) 32-C.Michael up the middle to SEA 4 for 1 yard

2-9-SEA 4 (10:14) 32-C.Michael left guard to SEA 8 for 4 yards

2-12-SEA 37 (7:08) (Shotgun) 32-C.Michael up the middle to SEA 47 for 10 yards

3-2-SEA 47 (6:30) (Shotgun) 32-C.Michael up the middle to 50 for 3 yards

1-10- (5:55) 32-C.Michael left tackle to 50 for no gain

1-10-SEA 20 (13:24) 32-C.Michael right tackle to SEA 25 for 5 yards

********
6 carries, 23 yards, all with 1st team O-line, all favorable running situations
********


Alex Collins


3-1-MIN 41 (4:38) (Shotgun) 36-A.Collins up the middle to MIN 41 for no gain

4-1-MIN 41 (4:00) 36-A.Collins up the middle to MIN 41 for no gain

1-10-SEA 25 (15:00) 36-A.Collins right tackle to SEA 27 for 2 yards

1-10-MIN 42 (13:01) 36-A.Collins right tackle to MIN 35 for 7 yards

2-3-MIN 35 (12:24) 36-A.Collins up the middle to MIN 35 for no gain

1-10-SEA 20 (9:22) 36-A.Collins up the middle to SEA 24 for 4 yards

*******
6 carries, 13 yards, only 4 favorable running situations which were all with 2nd team O-line.
*******


Of course C-Mike would end up getting more than 6 carries, and he looked very good for the most part, just trying to keep a fair, even analysis of the chances they got.

And based upon it, the jury is still out for me, on C-Mike being more effective than AC.

Have them swap the opportunities they got, and I'm not so sure AC wouldn't have done as well or better with them.