Alex Collins

[Hendo66]

I am disappointed in what I've seen of Alex, but most of that is probably my fault for letting the 'camp hype' boost my expectations.

I think Pope has earned some carries with the starters and I hope he gets them ahead of Collins in the next game. This might be difficult to do because they also have to work Prosise in too.

Who? :stirthepot:

 

[ACFan]

the nice 10 yard gain C-Mike had on the first drive. I feel really good about a fresh Alex Collins getting 30+ on a play like that.

How much the camp weary effect has had on AC I can't say, hopefully things will line up for him next Thursday. A good chance to breakout or bust. a good, fair look.

I want everyone else to see the AC I've been talking about. I think they've seen it in camp, but no one has seen it in games yet.

 

[hawkfan68]

Right now, based on game play, it seems that Pope has surpassed Procise and Collins. He got tons of plays yesterday and in the first game. He's making most of his opportunities plus he also plays on ST.

 

[ACFan]

I know you are going to fight for your guy, but this particular argument just doesn't hold water. Being productive in college isn't really all that meaningful on its own, as many players are built for college success while lacking the tools for NFL success. Montee Ball had 5000+ rushing yards in college and 83(!) total TDs. He lasted two years before being out of the league.

I understand completely what your saying, but what I'm saying is not even Bell would make the list I'm talking about.

While success in college rarely ever automatically means success in the NFL. There are certain levels of acheivement in college you can look at, that are exceptional, and see how they historically translate favorably to NFL success.

To start as a true freshmen in a power 5 conference, run for over 1,000 the first 3 years, never miss a game, then enter the draft at 20/21.

How many guys have done that?, sounds like something Jim Brown would do. or Barry Sanders, etc, etc.

It takes high levels of talent, durability and consistency.

No doubt in my mind AC has special talent, I just hope he's fresh enough and gets the opportunities to show it the next few weeks.

 

[chris98251]

One can argue he shot his wad in college and is not good enough for the NFL, or he had an ideal situation with a line that was men amongst boys. I am with Kearly, he looked quicker and faster on tape, he has not shown that here. He is either tired which is possible, hurt, or confused about his reads and is not reacting naturally. Lynch took a while to get it, C Mike took a while to get it.

The one thing not in his favor is Pope is getting it, the Seahawks will cut bait on draft picks if they don't get it and hope to resign them to the PS so they do figure it out.

 

[kearly]

To start as a true freshmen in a power 5 conference, run for over 1,000 the first 3 years, never miss a game, then enter the draft at 20/21.

I hate to break it to you but I don't think that's going to help him be good in the NFL. It might help them win NCAA RB Bingo though.

 

[dogorama]

As a Washington Huskies fan, I've had to mourn the fact that Bishop Sankey has been an NFL embarrasment despite the fact that he was a phenomenal and productive back for my team (4,063 rush/rec yards, 38 TDs in basically just two seasons). He was amazing, and he even had good tools, but he's been terrible in the NFL. It happens.

Excellent point and Chris Polk before him wasn't even drafted. There were some issues w/a degenerative shoulder condition but that never showed up at UW. Both of these backs were dynamic dominant backs w/all the tools, in fact they were both faster than AC being clocked at sub 4.5 times. Honestly, I thought they were both locks in the NFL, but that just shows you how really hard it is to make in this league.

It is the:NotForLong

 

[ACFan]

To start as a true freshmen in a power 5 conference, run for over 1,000 the first 3 years, never miss a game, then enter the draft at 20/21.

I hate to break it to you but I don't think that's going to help him be good in the NFL. It might help them win NCAA RB Bingo though.

It won't help him be good, it's a strong indication he WILL be good.



If the twisted ankle reports are true, then I guess I jinxed him by talking about how he's never injured. it hasn't caused him to miss a game, but he needs to be at his best right now.

We should be getting TDs on these opening drives, on the first few series, a 100% AC could make that happen IMO. Great job by C-Mike on the lanes the O-line opened on those first few drives, I just feel like AC, the guy we've seen on the highlight reel, could get a much bigger chunk.

As soon as the pads went on in camp, they started pounding on AC, CPC said "he's taken everything we've hit him with and he's dishing it back out".

That first week, he was about the only healthy back, I think they kept it up until he tweaked something, just on the cusp of the first preseason game the glowing reports of how he'd looked in camp ceased, and the preseason has been what's it's been for AC.

My fault for jinxing him! He did play through what was supposed to be a sprained ankle for a couple game stretch in his 3 years at Arkansas, but you didn't really see any drop off. He can't get away with it now I guess, he needs to get to 100% quick, I'd hate to see him end up on another team.

 

[ACFan]

Excellent point and Chris Polk before him wasn't even drafted. There were some issues w/a degenerative shoulder condition but that never showed up at UW.

Injuries and not being able to stand up to the wear and tear is what keeps most "great looking" young college RBs from being "great" in the NFL.

That's the importance of this unique list that AC is on.

Starting at 18, performing at a high level in major college for 3 straight years (no missed games) and entering the draft before age 22.

it demonstrates raw, natural ability (doesn't need to be coached up), a level headiness, (consistency, maturity) and most importantly, a PROVEN TRACK RECORD OF DURABILITY, being able to withstand the physical demands, and hold up to them better than others do. This is a great indicator of potential NFL success IMO.

I wish I could provide a complete list of who meets that criteria, I know McFadden, Walker and Peterson are on it, I suspect Barry Sanders is, OJ could be.

If I had such a list, I'd suspect you'd see all pro bowlers and hall of famers, you'd be hard pressed IMO, to find someone who meets that criteria, who failed to have a good impact in the NFL.

 

[SeaToTheHawks]

Excellent point and Chris Polk before him wasn't even drafted. There were some issues w/a degenerative shoulder condition but that never showed up at UW.

Injuries and not being able to stand up to the wear and tear is what keeps most "great looking" young college RBs from being "great" in the NFL.

That's the importance of this unique list that AC is on.

Starting at 18, performing at a high level in major college for 3 straight years (no missed games) and entering the draft before age 22.

it demonstrates raw, natural ability (doesn't need to be coached up), a level headiness, (consistency, maturity) and most importantly, a PROVEN TRACK RECORD OF DURABILITY, being able to withstand the physical demands, and hold up to them better than others do. This is a great indicator of potential NFL success IMO.

I wish I could provide a complete list of who meets that criteria, I know McFadden, Walker and Peterson are on it, I suspect Barry Sanders is, OJ could be.

If I had such a list, I'd suspect you'd see all pro bowlers and hall of famers, you'd be hard pressed IMO, to find someone who meets that criteria, who failed to have a good impact in the NFL.

Yea but the list of players not on your list that have gone on to NFL success is wayyyyy longer.

See, college lists don't mean a damn thing.

 

[dogorama]

Excellent point and Chris Polk before him wasn't even drafted. There were some issues w/a degenerative shoulder condition but that never showed up at UW.

Injuries and not being able to stand up to the wear and tear is what keeps most "great looking" young college RBs from being "great" in the NFL.

Polk wasn't injured, this is something that just showed up in his pre-draft physical, it never affected him.

 

[ACFan]

Excellent point and Chris Polk before him wasn't even drafted. There were some issues w/a degenerative shoulder condition but that never showed up at UW.

Injuries and not being able to stand up to the wear and tear is what keeps most "great looking" young college RBs from being "great" in the NFL.

Polk wasn't injured, this is something that just showed up in his pre-draft physical, it never affected him.

understood, shame for that guy.

He wasn't, or wouldn't be, physically able to endure what an NFL RB would have to endure. One way or another that's the cut off for most.

 

[dogorama]

Excellent point and Chris Polk before him wasn't even drafted. There were some issues w/a degenerative shoulder condition but that never showed up at UW.

Injuries and not being able to stand up to the wear and tear is what keeps most "great looking" young college RBs from being "great" in the NFL.

Polk wasn't injured, this is something that just showed up in his pre-draft physical, it never affected him.

understood, shame for that guy.

He wasn't, or wouldn't be, physically able to endure what an NFL RB would have to endure. One way or another that's the cut off for most.

Actually, the results of the exam stated that he had a "potentially" degenerative condition, I should have made that clearer. His durability has absolutely NOTHING to do w/his success or failure in the NFL. He is 221lbs, runs a sub 4.5 40, and had an illustrious career in college, same with Sankey albeit a bit smaller. Both of these backs really had more upside than AC and didn't make it. In fact, Sankey was regarded much higher than AC in his draft year being selected in the 2nd round.

 

[Megatron]

I know you are going to fight for your guy, but this particular argument just doesn't hold water. Being productive in college isn't really all that meaningful on its own, as many players are built for college success while lacking the tools for NFL success. Montee Ball had 5000+ rushing yards in college and 83(!) total TDs. He lasted two years before being out of the league.

I understand completely what your saying, but what I'm saying is not even Bell would make the list I'm talking about.

While success in college rarely ever automatically means success in the NFL. There are certain levels of acheivement in college you can look at, that are exceptional, and see how they historically translate favorably to NFL success.

To start as a true freshmen in a power 5 conference, run for over 1,000 the first 3 years, never miss a game, then enter the draft at 20/21.

How many guys have done that?, sounds like something Jim Brown would do. or Barry Sanders, etc, etc.

It takes high levels of talent, durability and consistency.

No doubt in my mind AC has special talent, I just hope he's fresh enough and gets the opportunities to show it the next few weeks.

Barry Sanders college stats probably would have been better had he not been backing up Thurman Thomas, but he did not rush for more than a 1000 yards until his junior year.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/barry-sanders-1.html

Jim Brown did not rush for more than a thousand yards in any in any of his college years, but those numbers are probably skewed because they only played 8 games a year.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jim-brown-1.html

OJ Simpson could also have probably rushed for more than 1000 yards all four seasons if played at USC, but he went to CCSF for the first two before going to USC. His stats at USC were still amazing, though.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/oj-simpson-1.html

There were no other players who I could find who could fill your criteria (granted there may be more, but I'll save that for some one else to look up), Marshall Faulk and Tony Dorsett both rushed for more than 1000 yards in each of their college years, but they did not play in power 5 conferences. Most of the other great NFL (let' s say rushed for more than 1500 yards in a NFL season, but other numbers could be added to that, for example Marshall Faulk's receiving yards) running backs I looked up did not fill your criteria because they were back-ups to other good to great running backs, went to JC before FBS, or did not play enough for whatever reason to get the yardage. Marcus Allen, Frank Gore, Shaun Alexandar (greater than 1500 yards twice), LaDainian Tomlinson (greater than 1500 yards three times), Eric Dickerson (greater than 1500 yards four times), OJ Simpson (greater than 1500 yards three times), etc., etc.

So in short all it takes is "To start as a true freshmen in a power 5 conference, run for over 1,000 the first 3 years, never miss a game, then enter the draft at 20/21" to become a serviceable to good NFL running back (Darren McFadden), to become a great one takes even less according to your criteria if followed strictly. How many first round busts have there been that had great college careers, Blair Thomas, Curtis Enis, Ki-Jana Carter, and Trent Richardson come to mind. So you are correct, college success does not equal NFL success.

 

[kearly]

I'm intrigued to see how Seattle handles their RB carries rest of preseason. Pope had more carries in week 2 than Collins had in the first two games combined. Maybe that is simply a function of Pope participating in drives that lasted longer. And though Farmer hasn't had a ton of touches, he's looked surprisingly decent at times. Farmer also adds a massive degree of versatility.

Theoretically, Collins adds a power running dimension that the rest of the RB group lacks. If Collins were looking good on his short yardage tries, I'd already have him penciled in to make the team. Collins isn't going to catch Pope in yards per carry, but he can still earn a roster spot by showing ability on short yardage. Unfortunately, Collins has been terrible so far on short yardage carries.

I don't think CJ Procise is in any danger of being cut, but if he doesn't get back soon he might find himself mysteriously IR'd.

 

[ACFan]

Barry Sanders college stats probably would have been better had he not been backing up Thurman Thomas, but he did not rush for more than a 1000 yards until his junior year.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/barry-sanders-1.html

Jim Brown did not rush for more than a thousand yards in any in any of his college years, but those numbers are probably skewed because they only played 8 games a year.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jim-brown-1.html

OJ Simpson could also have probably rushed for more than 1000 yards all four seasons if played at USC, but he went to CCSF for the first two before going to USC. His stats at USC were still amazing, though.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/oj-simpson-1.html

There were no other players who I could find who could fill your criteria (granted there may be more, but I'll save that for some one else to look up), Marshall Faulk and Tony Dorsett both rushed for more than 1000 yards in each of their college years, but they did not play in power 5 conferences. Most of the other great NFL (let' s say rushed for more than 1500 yards in a NFL season, but other numbers could be added to that, for example Marshall Faulk's receiving yards) running backs I looked up did not fill your criteria because they were back-ups to other good to great running backs, went to JC before FBS, or did not play enough for whatever reason to get the yardage. Marcus Allen, Frank Gore, Shaun Alexandar (greater than 1500 yards twice), LaDainian Tomlinson (greater than 1500 yards three times), Eric Dickerson (greater than 1500 yards four times), OJ Simpson (greater than 1500 yards three times), etc., etc.

So in short all it takes is "To start as a true freshmen in a power 5 conference, run for over 1,000 the first 3 years, never miss a game, then enter the draft at 20/21" to become a serviceable to good NFL running back (Darren McFadden), to become a great one takes even less according to your criteria if followed strictly. How many first round busts have there been that had great college careers, Blair Thomas, Curtis Enis, Ki-Jana Carter, and Trent Richardson come to mind. So you are correct, college success does not equal NFL success.

Wow, I appreciate all the work you put into that Megatron. thanks a ton!

Really confirmed what I suspected, that it really is an exclusive club, and it appears everyone in that club didn't just turn into an NFL starter, but really excelled, virtually all HOF'ers!

And I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but just to say it one last way., one last time.

Any RB that ever displayed that level of production, durability and consistency in major college, (3- 1K seasons, no injuries) eventually became a NFL HOF'er, or a multi year starter at least (McFadden). Every one.

I'm not trying to induct AC into the HoF yet, What I'm saying is history of his collegiate achievements strongly suggests he'll be very productive in the NFL for a lot of years.

 

[ACFan]

I'm intrigued to see how Seattle handles their RB carries rest of preseason. Pope had more carries in week 2 than Collins had in the first two games combined. Maybe that is simply a function of Pope participating in drives that lasted longer. And though Farmer hasn't had a ton of touches, he's looked surprisingly decent at times. Farmer also adds a massive degree of versatility.

Theoretically, Collins adds a power running dimension that the rest of the RB group lacks. If Collins were looking good on his short yardage tries, I'd already have him penciled in to make the team. Collins isn't going to catch Pope in yards per carry, but he can still earn a roster spot by showing ability on short yardage. Unfortunately, Collins has been terrible so far on short yardage carries.

I don't think CJ Procise is in any danger of being cut, but if he doesn't get back soon he might find himself mysteriously IR'd.

I will also be interested to see how carries are handed out Thursday, hopefully they have evaluated C-Mike enough, and a 100% AC, and others can get some of his carries.

interesting competition indeed.

 

[vin.couve12]

Not sure this cat isn't AC himself.

 

[ACFan]

Not sure this cat isn't AC himself.

haha, nah,just a guy who's hyped AC since draft day and has had little to show for it so far, down to debating what little points I have left.

I hope my boy gets it going Thursday night. I hope he's 100%, he can't afford not to be right now.

 

[vin.couve12]

Ok, Alex. Good luck.