Are we second best in the div again?

[Smellyman]

but the rams and cardinals have better WRs and RBs,

Have to strongly disagree with you on the Rams having better WRs and RBs.

Well Austin and Gurley are better than anybody we have so i'm not seeing a problem with the statement.

Austin isn't better than Lockette or Baldwin

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Nobody in the NFL is afraid of Carson Palmer.

How clutch is he again?

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

but the rams and cardinals have better WRs and RBs,

Have to strongly disagree with you on the Rams having better WRs and RBs.

Well Austin and Gurley are better than anybody we have so i'm not seeing a problem with the statement.

Austin isn't better than Lockette or Baldwin

Agreed.

Austin is a one trick pony.

 

[Hawks46]

Until we win the Div crown back, yes. :229031_shrug:

Them's the rules, I didn't make them up.

This.

Yea, they're "winning' FA, but we still have a draft left.

Also, they barely beat us at home, and we crushed them at their house. Sure, you can say they had nothing left to play for, but you NEVER let a division opponent do that to you. EVER.

For comparion's sake, look at the Rams. They've won some games and I see fans here go "ah well, it's not a big deal and that meaningful of a game". But it gives them confidence against us and it's making it harder and harder to beat them.

Meanwhile, we've crushed the Niners a few times, and now we're starting to own them. Starting with that 42-13 game, look at the competitive dynamic of the two teams after that blow out loss.

I still think we have a more talented and younger team. They have less holes than we do, which makes them better on a consistency level. I still honestly think we're the better team, but we have to prove that.

 

[Smellyman]

Until we win the Div crown back, yes. :229031_shrug:

Them's the rules, I didn't make them up.

This.

Yea, they're "winning' FA, but we still have a draft left.

Also, they barely beat us at home, and we crushed them at their house. Sure, you can say they had nothing left to play for, but you NEVER let a division opponent do that to you. EVER.

Just the #1seed and homefield in the playoffs.

 

[IndyHawk]

Vegas actually favors Seattle and I'm baffled that someone would say a distant second to AZ. That's insane.

I don't agree on a lot with you but this I do

 

[HawkFan72]

As of now, I would predict we finish behind the Cardinals. On paper, they look really good.

But we know that things don't always turn out in real life like they do on paper.

 

[McGruff]

On paper we still have the best secondary in the NFL, one of the best pass rushing duos, two pro bowl caliber linebackers, a solid and efficient t receiving corps including one of the most explosive TE'S in the game, and an impossible to defend QB with a young QB that compares favorably to some of the best RBS of the last 15 years.

We lament losing Irvin and Mebane, but those are literally the only 2 positions on defense where we don't have top 10 talent.

 

[beaumaris]

Even in a down year with no Lynch no Graham and no Rawls we were still the most feared team heading into the playoffs. The Cards had their one chance last season and blew it. We'll be back on top the NFC this year and I fully expect Russell to be in the MVP conversation.

That's the way I see it also.when it's a close call on who is the better team,for me the deciding factor
always comes down to who has the best QB,and for me Russell is the best in the entire league. :th2thumbs:

 

[JSeahawks]

Even if the cards are better in the regular season they get playoff Palmer showing up for the playoffs. He's a choke artist.

 

[Ozzy]

Vegas actually favors Seattle and I'm baffled that someone would say a distant second to AZ. That's insane.

I don't agree on a lot with you but this I do

Well then you're starting to come around.

 

[Hawks46]

Last year Seattle was 3-6 in one score games, and 8-1 in all others. How that is possible, I have no idea. I take nothing away from the Cardinals, but Seattle lost the NFC West as much as Arizona won it.

Arizona has had a good offseason so far. They've had several good offseasons in a row now. But their overall talent level is still behind Seattle's. Fortunately for them, Seattle only seems to feel like playing up to their talent level in the second half of seasons.

The other stat that makes you shake your head is that we won all of the games where we lost the turn over differential, but lost most of the games where we won the turn over differential. That's fluky and not sustainable.

If we start out with our secondary in a better position (which we will) that either adds 2 games, or takes away 2 losses form last year, depending on how you look at it. Our secondary absolutely lost us the Carolina game and at least 2 others.

Sure, I'm worried about the OL, but if we start out going with more spread concepts (knowing our line is starting weak like last year) we can negate some of our typical slow starts until the OL gets up to speed.

We really only need to swing 2 games. 12 wins should win the division, and beating LA at least once and splitting with AZ will likely do it as well.

 

[MeanBlueGreen]

Cards who are already dangerous adding some big pieces this week. We added some journeymen or maybe even no namers and are worse on o line and a hole in the linebacker corps. I know its early but do you think we can get a home playoff game this year and win the div or more like last year?

We had a shaky start last year due to internal team conflicts and significant hols with Cary Williams. We were still leading in the 4th quarter of most of those early games.

Carson had a career year last year but showed his true colors in the playoffs - the guy is like Brett Favre lite.

Our offensive line was truly offensive at the beginning, got better when we played weaker teams and collapsed once again when we faced a good pass rush. IF we fix the problems there, or at least start better than we did, we will be neck and neck with the Cards. If we don;t, we won;t.

 

[scutterhawk]

Vegas actually favors Seattle and I'm baffled that someone would say a distant second to AZ. That's insane.

This ^
We were stumbling about for the first half of last Season, losing to both Rams & Cards, that was with no Lynch or Graham, a floundering O-Line, and a Russell Wilson getting sacked at every turn.
Second half.... Russell Wilson finds some rhythm and we wind up soundly beating the Cards, and splitting with them...Too many losses at that point, we don't get HFA.
We split with the Cards, we lose both to the Rams, and yet the Cards are #1 ???...Hell no....Vegas has it about right IMHO.

 

[brimsalabim]

It depends on how well we sort out our offensive line doesn't it?

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

It's said sometimes that fans see their team through rose colored glasses.

But, more often than not... I think knowledgeable fans are the team's worst critics. Any team's fans.

Go Hawks.

 

[olyfan63]

To me it's just laughable to wring our hands and crown the Cardinals as paper division champions, based on some FA acquisitions that may or may not wind up making their team better. Percy Harvin anyone? Cary Williams? Jimmy Graham? Two of those "splash" FA's, Harvin and Williams, made the Seahawks clearly *worse*, not better. While I can't fault Graham, and still have high hopes for him as a Seahawk, the offense actually *improved* after he went down with injury. Then there's splash FA Sidney "glass of" Rice, who got injured halfway through the SB48 season, got his ring, but was not part of the stretch drive, with pedestrian UDFAs Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse stepping up BIG at WR in key moments to get the job done.

Meanwhile, Pete & John are just quietly doing what they do, and ignoring the doubters. Think about some of the FA pickups that have been huge in one or both of Seattle's two SB seasons. Guys like Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Tony McDaniel, Kevin Williams, Chris Clemons, not to mention that Lynch fellow back in 2010 and Zach Miller.

Granted, we "won" the offseason between 2012 and 2013, with the signings of Avril and Bennett. The media thought we "won" the offseason with the Percy Harvin signing; after that, it was "yes, indeed, with the addition of Percy Harvin, Seattle should now be favored to win the Super Bowl." Harvin nursed and malingered an "injury" pretty much all season, and really contributed little or nothing. I agree with those who say SB48 would have been 36-8 without Harvin. FA pickup Tony McDaniel wound up being much more important to Seattle's success than Harvin; McDaniel came to Seattle as a slightly-below-average DT who seemed to play above-average in Seattle's scheme.

Last year was just a fiasco on so many different levels, as others have pointed out above.
The biggest parts of that fiasco were Cary Williams and Kam Chancellor, who between them, cost us at least 3 wins. Not to mention, we had rookie DC Kris Richard running the defensive show, with maybe a few growing pains there, PLUS, not having Richard's direct attention, leadership, and continuity focused on the secondary. I never felt Richard "got" how to rotate DL effectively the way Dan Quinn did; maybe this year he'll improve there.

Seattle's success under Carroll has been about guys massively outplaying their contracts. Paying big for free agents very often violates that model. I, for one am very glad Seattle chose not to tie up lots of salary cap in "name" FA signings who are less likely to massively outplay their contract than draft picks or "no name" FAs with something to prove. The reality I see is that high-priced free agents get injured at pretty much the same rate as all the other players. Around the league, plenty of $5M+ free agents were on IR by playoff time, with mostly under-$1M guys on the field in their place. Pete's approach is all about coaching up and inspiring lots of those $1M guys to complete and play like a $5M guy.

I happen to think our OL will be average by mid-season and above-average by season's end. Granted, the first half-dozen games could have some scary moments; we just need Russ to survive while making chicken salad out of that initial group. Glowinski, Sokoli, Sowell, Webb, I think there are three opening day starters in those 4 names. Add a couple good prospects in the draft, plus other guys who might suprise (Nowak?) and we might have something. Sometimes I wonder what Cable's uncensored account of coaching OL in Seattle would be, sharing the reality he is dealing with.

OL questions aside, I happen to believe we have numerous guys who are going to surprise us and come on this year and outplay their contracts. What if this is the year Tharald Simon gets and stays healthy? Maybe KPL finds his niche. Some of our big-contract guys backslid and/or got injured last year, what if this is the year Sherman, Kam, and Graham stay healthy and outplay their contracts? I think Sherman has a lot of upside over what we saw last year. Kam, healthy and with his mind right, could and should have a great year. Jeremy Lane was a huge "keep" for us and I expect him to outplay his contract. Kearse, Baldwin, Lockett, Rawls will continue to outplay their contracts. CMike with his head screwed on straight? Look out!

What if the 2016 'Hawks as a whole just have that "it" factor, that chemistry, that was so totally missing last year, yet so totally present in 2013 and the second half of 2014? I'd argue that Pete and John are dramatically increasing the chances of that by the way they've handled Free Agency so far. Let Arizona "win" free agency. Then we'll face them at the end of the season with playoff seeding on the line, and see $50M of their salary cap on the sidelines in street clothes, while we have five $1M guys playing like $5M guys, and we exploit matchups at positions where Arizona's "next man up" is more like "man off the street". That's the scenario I expect to see, a game that looks like Seattle's late-season dismantling of the Cards last season in the desert. The key is not to give away 3-4 games (thus the division) on the front end of the season like we did last year.

 

[jammerhawk]

Appreciate this is a discussion board and this is a "where are they relatively?" type thread, but it's March and the season is won in January. At present there is really only area of relative concern, the OLine, while the core of the rest of the team is still here. The OLine has been a continuing relative concern for years as we understand that perhaps this might just be intentional on the part of the FO. As well Seattle has the best QB in the Division. All in all if the OLine proves to be almost as good as last year's closing version JN'P will be looking pretty smart. At present this is developing picture and the hand wringing is premature.

Sure AZ and LA are improving but both have areas of concern and AZ tends to choke late in the year or loses one of their 'older' players which critically affects their competitiveness. The Rams have a great DLine but some HUGE holes, and the Niners have York and Balke and serious dysfunction which will last until big change happens there. The Hawks have a few in house issues to resolve with Kam and Bennett, and that will be an interesting area to watch. Pete will dowse the flames of discord internally or rid himself and the team of the non-compliant player. My sense is Kam knows the team won't renegotiate and some deserved bonus will be given to Bennett for performance.

I want to se what the team looks like in September but really am waiting to see how the 'team plays' in December. We need to remember it's painfully early yet and the 'experts' seem to misunderstand the nature of the approach taken by Jn'P. All Star lineups rarely perform at Al Star levels unless they come together as a team. the Hawks have been a stronger team than most others in the league for almost the whole of the this regime's tenure. We all need to avoid making short sighted early comparisons and watch to understand what their very capable FO is putting together for this season.

It's easy to grumble but we need to recognize they do have have a few limitations to their ability to build for this year, but there is a strong core here. I'd argue that at most every key position the team has a top quality player or some chemistry with the guys playing there that is lacking elsewhere.

It's way early yet! Patience!

 

[jammerhawk]

2nd again?

I don't accept the Hawks were really 2nd last season as they shellacked AZ in our last game against them.

I do agree totally with above expressed view that the Seahawks lost the division early in the season but were the strongest team in the Division at the end of the year. Maybe they were 2nd on the scoresheet but the team was a better team than AZ at the end of the year.

All in all I think the OLine will prove to be a pleasant positive surprise to all the handwringers.

 

[Optimus25]

Gawd, we suck. Who should we pick first overall in 2017?

Its not that we are bad, we will be a top 10 team, its about relativity. If we don't win the division we won't win the superbowl and there is arguably 1 maybe 2 teams that are at or above our talent level in our division.

Have to strongly disagree with you on the Rams having better WRs and RBs.

Gurley is easily the best RB in the division, he may be the best in the league. I can see the argument over WRs but I'd take Tavon Austin over lockett and they have bigs in stedman bailey and Brian Quick.

Once gurley has established himself as the best back in the division, then we can start a league wide discussion. Unfortunately for you there was a guy named Rawls who led the entire league in yds/attempt. Until Todd separates himself from Rawls, the best one could do is speculate on who's best, but the stats certainly in no way support that gurley is clear cut best in the division. In fact prior to injury I would say San Fran has a horse in the race as well in Hyde. Remember everything he did was in a one dimensional offense with an amazingly dysfunctional o line.

And yeah the Rams have some bigs in stedman bailey.
All the Hawks have is jimmy freaking graham.

And any comparison favoring tavon Austin over Tyler Lockett invalidates your discussion .
Lockett is on pace to smash Devin Hester records.

Austin is on pace with Leon Washington at best.