At what point does Schnieder get some blame?

[Seymour]

I lost some respect for Schnieder early this season when I heard him defend Cable during questioning. "Tom Cable is the best oline coach in the NFL". :roll:

I know standing behind your guys is noble, but good god John, pull your head out. The problems we are seeing is the direct result of poor drafting and some really bad trades that cost us (Harvin , Graham)

Pete, John, and Cable have drafted 16 offensive linemen in their time here. No other team in the NFL has given more draft capitol to their line than us. Compare that to what you see on the field and the disparity screams incompetence.
Then you say well we draft last...ect. Really? Look at our average draft position on our CURRENT oline using the Jimmy Johnson draft value calculator, and once again, the Seahawks have the #1 offensive line value in total assets being used this season.

Now move onto RB's. Look at all the RB's we've taken and nothing to show. Collins is playing well elsewhere but was crap here. Cable is run game coordinator, so that too reflects on his abilities yet Schnieder stands behind him with his bold statement.

When was the last game changer or all pro we drafted? 2012. Malik McDowell with red flags we take and pass on guys like Cam Robinson? Ifedi is still starting and killing drive after drive? All pro Brown is here a month and now gives up sacks and holds like never in his career?

Yes, we have coaching issues. And mostly because of the holes their poor drafting is causing. The studs are wearing out and not getting replaced....simple as that.

Pete is over John when it comes to draft, but Schnieder seems to lost his magic as well for several years now. That or there was more luck than magic.

 

[original poster]

There's always an element of luck in the draft, for sure.

I'd be disappointed if JS was no longer the GM, personally.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Def. not his best year. Some horrific signings (Walsh, Joeklel and Lacy)

 

[original poster]

How he deals with this off season will be very interesting.

Lots of cap space can become available if he wants to, some draft capital can be created with the right trades. How he manages this off season is going to be critical in shaping the team.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Schneider gets just as much blame as Pete, they are the architects of this team.

So the "point" is now, last year, two years ago, three years ago, so on and so forth.

This is pure speculation, and I have NOTHING to back up my hunch. But I think both Pete and John knew before this season started that neither of them want to go through another 3-4 year re-building effort to make another SB run with a different core of players, that's why they went all in with the trades for Richardson and Brown.

So I would not be shocked if both Pete and John leave after this year.

 

[thegreeninyoureye]

The thing is u or any of us do not know how much he has to do with it. Im sure he shares some of the blame however its the coaches final say and none of us know how much input is Pete's or John's. We do not know who is pounding the table for certain guys and for making certain moves happen. He does share some of the blame tho but most of all it must always come down to Pete cuz he has the final decision.

 

[Seymour]

Schneider gets just as much blame as Pete, they are the architects of this team.

So the "point" is now, last year, two years ago, three years ago, so on and so forth.

This is pure speculation, and I have NOTHING to back up my hunch. But I think both Pete and John knew before this season started that neither of them want to go through another 3-4 year re-building effort to make another SB run with a different core of players, that's why they went all in with the trades for Richardson and Brown.

So I would not be shocked if both Pete and John leave after this year.

I mentioned that on the Richardson trade. That trade was only made because of the McDowell failure (another shit high draft choice). It stunk of being desperate to make 1 last go. It backfired and now we will pay for it.

BTW McVay sure didn't need 3-4 years did he?

The Brown trade only makes sense if we are contenders. We are not so we pay for that now too.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Good: Brown, Richardson, Carson, McDougald, Griffin, Pocic, Thorpe, McKissic, Mike Davis

Bad: Lacy, Joeckel, Walsh, McDowell, Thompson, Senior

All in all, it wasn't a horrible season. We nabbed two currently Pro Bowl-caliber players (Brown and Richardson) and four likely long-term starters.

The 2011-2013 drafts might possibly be the best three-draft series in NFL history. You can't exactly fault a GM for not reproducing it every year.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Schneider gets just as much blame as Pete, they are the architects of this team.

So the "point" is now, last year, two years ago, three years ago, so on and so forth.

This is pure speculation, and I have NOTHING to back up my hunch. But I think both Pete and John knew before this season started that neither of them want to go through another 3-4 year re-building effort to make another SB run with a different core of players, that's why they went all in with the trades for Richardson and Brown.

So I would not be shocked if both Pete and John leave after this year.

I mentioned that on the Richardson trade. That trade was only made because of the McDowell failure (another shit high draft choice). It stunk of being desperate to make 1 last go. It backfired and now we will pay for it.

BTW McVay sure didn't need 3-4 years did he?

The Brown trade only makes sense if we are contenders. We are not so we pay for that now too.

I respect what McVay has done, but he inherited a team that was already LOADED with talent, in all three phases. All he had to do was choose the right coaches and install the right schemes to make it all click.

NOWHERE near what Pete and John inherited, or what they'd have to do to rebuild. They don't have the luxury of dozens of first and second rounders over a 5-7 year period like McVey inherited.

But to answer your question, of course Schneider is just as culpable in what happened this year, just as much as he was responsible for all the successes and failures since he and Pete got here. It's 50/50 for me, this is Pete and John's team equally as far as draft and personnel moves.

 

[Seymour]

Good: Brown, Richardson, Carson, McDougald, Griffin, Pocic, Thorpe, Mike Davis

Bad: Lacy, Joeckel, Walsh, McDowell, Thompson, Senior

All in all, it wasn't a horrible season. We nabbed two currently Pro Bowl-caliber players (Brown and Richardson) and four likely long-term starters.

The 2011-2013 drafts might possibly be the best three-draft series in NFL history. You can't exactly fault a GM for not reproducing it every year.

Griffin and Pocic are not "good" choices yet. Too soon to call them IMO, especially looking at their play against solid opponents.

 

[FlyingGreg]

Schneider gets just as much blame as Pete, they are the architects of this team.

So the "point" is now, last year, two years ago, three years ago, so on and so forth.

This is pure speculation, and I have NOTHING to back up my hunch. But I think both Pete and John knew before this season started that neither of them want to go through another 3-4 year re-building effort to make another SB run with a different core of players, that's why they went all in with the trades for Richardson and Brown.

So I would not be shocked if both Pete and John leave after this year.

I mentioned that on the Richardson trade. That trade was only made because of the McDowell failure (another shit high draft choice). It stunk of being desperate to make 1 last go. It backfired and now we will pay for it.

BTW McVay sure didn't need 3-4 years did he?

The Brown trade only makes sense if we are contenders. We are not so we pay for that now too.

McVay also inherited a talented roster. Don't misidentify the Rams W-L records the last few seasons as lack of talent; it was poor coaching (see: Jeff Fisher). They have a very talented roster with a lot of high picks. They were also very smart in free agency and with trades this year, acquiring the likes of Andrew Whitworth, Robert Woods, Sammy Watkins, Connor Barwin, etc. There is the friction point - Seahawks made poor and desperate free agent signings (Lacy, Joeckel) an dhave not drafted well in years.

 

[Seymour]

Schneider gets just as much blame as Pete, they are the architects of this team.

So the "point" is now, last year, two years ago, three years ago, so on and so forth.

This is pure speculation, and I have NOTHING to back up my hunch. But I think both Pete and John knew before this season started that neither of them want to go through another 3-4 year re-building effort to make another SB run with a different core of players, that's why they went all in with the trades for Richardson and Brown.

So I would not be shocked if both Pete and John leave after this year.

I mentioned that on the Richardson trade. That trade was only made because of the McDowell failure (another shit high draft choice). It stunk of being desperate to make 1 last go. It backfired and now we will pay for it.

BTW McVay sure didn't need 3-4 years did he?

The Brown trade only makes sense if we are contenders. We are not so we pay for that now too.

I respect what McVay has done, but he inherited a team that was already LOADED with talent, in all three phases. All he had to do was choose the right coaches and install the right schemes to make it all click.

NOWHERE near what Pete and John inherited, or what they'd have to do to rebuild. They don't have the luxury of dozens of first and second rounders over a 5-7 year period like McVey inherited.

But to answer your question, of course Schneider is just as culpable in what happened this year, just as much as he was responsible for all the successes and failures since he and Pete got here. It's 50/50 for me, this is Pete and John's team equally as far as draft and personnel moves.

Lets talk about what McVay "inherited", Goff specifically. He was crap last year and they built him an EXCELLENT oline and gave him 3 new WR's. Now look, and look what it's done for Gurley. Turned another mans trash into his treasure. Yet you want to credit Fisher for having that talent? Not me. This Seahawks team is just as close as "that" Rams team was last season (when it comes to starting over).

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Lets talk about what McVay "inherited", Goff specifically. He was crap last year and they built him an EXCELLENT oline and gave him 3 new WR's. Now look, and look what it's done for Gurley. Turned another mans trash into his treasure. Yet you want to credit Fisher for having that talent? Not me. This Seahawks team is just as close as "that" Rams team was last season (when it comes to starting over).

You're delusional if you think this old beat up and tired Hawks team is just as close as the Rams were when McVay got there.

Rams had/have an elite defense on all three levels, a top 5 RB, a top 5 O-line, arguably the best special teams in the league including punter, kicker and PR..............and now a QB that can be a good game manager and not screw up and just let all those other phases dominate.

We have Russell, Bobby and Earl. That's our core now.

I'm not saying we can't rebuild, it's not hard to do in the NFL if done right. Pete and John have shown they can do it, but WILL they? Idk, I don't think so. Pete's too stubborn in his schemes, coaching and player loyalties to make the tough decisions to strip this down to the bare bones again and start over................let alone the necessary coaching, scheme and philosophical changes needed.

 

[mrt144]

There are many sides to this dice

1. Flat out busts - every GM has them, JS included. Ifedi might be one of the crown jewels in this regard given the reality of his penalty accrual. Sure he's suited up for all those games but what has his net impact been? I would say detrimental. The only thing that makes this worse than other OL that have been turnstyles and penalty machines is his draft value.

2. Ineffectual trades - Sure JFG turned on the TD jets this season but other than that...both Harvin and Graham were not clear net benefits to the team during their entire tenure. Some of this gets back to schematic integration almost like the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing or how it even does it. Hell the right hand might have an idea of what its doing and then it punches you, the fan, in the junk.

3. Impatience with some picks, infinite leash with others - look no further than Collins vs. Prosise. Now we can argue about the factors that influence RB performance so the Seahawks OL undoubtedly sabotaged the output of the RBs but...cmon man, this isn't first time the team has cut bait with an RB, under team control, chasing something else and that cut RB went on to be decent. It happens to all teams to some extent but since Rawls injury in 2015 the team has been absolutely rudderless at the RB position. Carson seemed like a stick save until, he too, got injured.

4. Defense - its only made worse by all the injuries - but there are flaws there as well. Again though, how much of this is scheme integration? Across the board from CB2 to DL? It seems like the DL has been teetering on becoming the force we imagine and want them to be but never quite there.

5. Injuries - Lockett and Rawls have both been distinctly 'off' after their injuries. Prosise never got started really. Richardson's 2015 was ended by injury and he's finally showing some flash. Graham also had a season ender. It's been spotty for those injured at skill positions on offense. The injuries themselves aren't JS's fault bar Prosise who had some inkling of a history with em.

6. Going all in this season in the face of a mounting body count. Worst timing ever.

 

[Missing_Clink]

He should be blamed for the bad drafting from 2013 on, and all the terrible trades he’s made since the great Lynch trade

 

[IdahoVandalHawk]

Scot G. McCloughan made JS look good. He built the Hawks into that back to back Super Bowl team. He's proven to be an incredible talent evaluator.

JS should hire him back now - baggage and all.

He's obviously available.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 959646001/

 

[mrt144]

Scot G. McCloughan made JS look good. He built the Hawks into that back to back Super Bowl team. He's proven to be an incredible talent evaluator.

JS should hire him back now - baggage and all.

He's obviously available.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 959646001/

He runs a scouting/consulting service. Seems like a way better gig.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He should be blamed for the bad drafting from 2013 on, and all the terrible trades he’s made since the great Lynch trade

We've drafted some good players since 2013, but nowhere near the hit rate on the earlier drafts.

But that's been the consensus around the league for a long time, that Pete coming from college had a head start on scouting over the rest of the league when he first got here.

Now he's 3-4 years removed from that advantage, and it's showing. Don't think it's a coincidence that the 3-4 years is your 2013 break point draft.

 

[BirdsCommaAngry]

At what point does blame start functioning as a solution?

 

[red grenadine]

His drafting of O-lineman has been atrocious

Whether that is on him, Cable, Pete or some combination thereof is TBD