At what point does Schnieder get some blame?

[red grenadine]

Also this guy thought Blair f'ing Walsh was a competent kicker, and compounded that mistake by not cutting him and signing literally anyone else

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Also this guy thought Blair f'ing Walsh was a competent kicker, and compounded that mistake by not cutting him and signing literally anyone else

Walsh is what happens when you've overpayed your core players for 2-3 years running and STILL have major holes to fill in the offseason because you've not drafted well.....................you have to let your kicker go and dumpster dive.

 

[Coug_Hawk08]

It’s so hard to know what Pete put his final say on, so in that way, how can we know if it was Schneider’s fault or Pete’s?

Player acquisition and retention has been pretty bad for 3 years or so though. They both deserve a lot of scrutiny for some really large mistakes.

 

[Rocket]

Def. not his best year. Some horrific signings (Walsh, Joeklel and Lacy)

Horsepuckey... these are Pete calls, not John calls. Schneider ain't the problem.

 

[Chapow]

Good: Brown, Richardson, Carson, McDougald, Griffin, Pocic, Thorpe, Mike Davis

Bad: Lacy, Joeckel, Walsh, McDowell, Thompson, Senior

All in all, it wasn't a horrible season. We nabbed two currently Pro Bowl-caliber players (Brown and Richardson) and four likely long-term starters.

The 2011-2013 drafts might possibly be the best three-draft series in NFL history. You can't exactly fault a GM for not reproducing it every year.

Griffin and Pocic are not "good" choices yet. Too soon to call them IMO, especially looking at their play against solid opponents.

So if it's too soon to come to the conclusion that any picks were good, then is it also too soon to come to the conclusion that any picks were bad?

I've heard that sometimes players improve over time with experience, coaching, training, etc.

 

[scutterhawk]

Good: Brown, Richardson, Carson, McDougald, Griffin, Pocic, Thorpe, McKissic, Mike Davis

Bad: Lacy, Joeckel, Walsh, McDowell, Thompson, Senior

All in all, it wasn't a horrible season. We nabbed two currently Pro Bowl-caliber players (Brown and Richardson) and four likely long-term starters.

The 2011-2013 drafts might possibly be the best three-draft series in NFL history. You can't exactly fault a GM for not reproducing it every year.

This ^

 

[Seymour]

Good: Brown, Richardson, Carson, McDougald, Griffin, Pocic, Thorpe, Mike Davis

Bad: Lacy, Joeckel, Walsh, McDowell, Thompson, Senior

All in all, it wasn't a horrible season. We nabbed two currently Pro Bowl-caliber players (Brown and Richardson) and four likely long-term starters.

The 2011-2013 drafts might possibly be the best three-draft series in NFL history. You can't exactly fault a GM for not reproducing it every year.

Griffin and Pocic are not "good" choices yet. Too soon to call them IMO, especially looking at their play against solid opponents.

So if it's too soon to come to the conclusion that any picks were good, then is it also too soon to come to the conclusion that any picks were bad?

I've heard that sometimes players improve over time with experience, coaching, training, etc.

That would depend on how bad "bad" is. Same goes for "good" IMO.

 

[Seymour]

Good: Brown, Richardson, Carson, McDougald, Griffin, Pocic, Thorpe, McKissic, Mike Davis

Bad: Lacy, Joeckel, Walsh, McDowell, Thompson, Senior

All in all, it wasn't a horrible season. We nabbed two currently Pro Bowl-caliber players (Brown and Richardson) and four likely long-term starters.

The 2011-2013 drafts might possibly be the best three-draft series in NFL history. You can't exactly fault a GM for not reproducing it every year.

Can someone show me anywhere that someone expects to reproduce those drafts? Ridiculous post, nobody is asking that. I said NOT 1 top pick has been made in 5 years. That is a far cry from asking for 5 in 3 years. :roll:

 

[Spin Doctor]

Again, Pete Carroll is the final authority when it comes to player acquisition. He is also the president of the Seahawks franchise. Carroll has full control, and autonomy over the draft, Schneider is just his lackey. I don't think it is any coincidence that the Seahawks drafts started suffering after all of the college players that Pete was familiar with got drafted into the NFL.

 

[joeseahawks]

Exactly.
The poor drafts have forced him to sign aging veterans to massive contracts, because the team didn't have any leverage.
If we drafted half decent players, then the team wouldn't be in this position.

Doesn't matter how good our coaches are. Every team needs NFL level talent on their roster. We have drafted jokes in the past few years.

Good: Brown, Richardson, Carson, McDougald, Griffin, Pocic, Thorpe, McKissic, Mike Davis
Bad: Lacy, Joeckel, Walsh, McDowell, Thompson, Senior
All in all, it wasn't a horrible season. We nabbed two currently Pro Bowl-caliber players (Brown and Richardson) and four likely long-term starters.
The 2011-2013 drafts might possibly be the best three-draft series in NFL history. You can't exactly fault a GM for not reproducing it every year.

Can someone show me anywhere that someone expects to reproduce those drafts? Ridiculous post, nobody is asking that. I said NOT 1 top pick has been made in 5 years. That is a far cry from asking for 5 in 3 years. :roll:

 

[Grahamhawker]

2013- Willson
2014- PRich, Britt
2015- Clark, Lockett,
2016- Ifedi, Reed, Vannett, Odiahmbo, Jefferson, Prosise
2017- ?

That's not good. Not only not replacing top talent, but not even coming up with solid contributors. You can't stay competitive with a string like this. For comparison's sake, over the same course, the Pats had about twice as many draft picks still on the roster.
Been beating this drum since 2015...

But I'd agree that it's more a Pete issue than a Schneider issue.

 

[IdahoVandalHawk]

Scot G. McCloughan made JS look good. He built the Hawks into that back to back Super Bowl team. He's proven to be an incredible talent evaluator.

JS should hire him back now - baggage and all.

He's obviously available.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 959646001/

He runs a scouting/consulting service. Seems like a way better gig.

Then hire that consulting service. McGloughan drafted future hall of famers. PC and JS have drafted a "few solid contributors."

Scheinder and Pete (along with Cable) get ALL the blame. Our drafts have been terrible since McGloughan left.

 

[rossob]

2013- Willson
2014- PRich, Britt
2015- Clark, Lockett,
2016- Ifedi, Reed, Vannett, Odiahmbo, Jefferson, Prosise
2017- ?

That's not good. Not only not replacing top talent, but not even coming up with solid contributors. You can't stay competitive with a string like this. For comparison's sake, over the same course, the Pats had about twice as many draft picks still on the roster.
Been beating this drum since 2015...

But I'd agree that it's more a Pete issue than a Schneider issue.

WOW that is eyeopening. I really hope our last draft pans out.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Exactly.
The poor drafts have forced him to sign aging veterans to massive contracts, because the team didn't have any leverage.
If we drafted half decent players, then the team wouldn't be in this position.

That logic requires that you draft perfectly. It requires that no player ever be in a position where his backup isn't starter-caliber. It's unrealistic. At some point, the bird in the hand is worth two.

It also ignores that Seattle HAS let quite a few players go. Bruce Irvin, Golden Tate, Zach Miller, and Russell Okung are amongst them, and they've all been missed in their absence. That's because, although the Seahawks have drafted good players over the years, they weren't at those positions. If you're gonna cut bait with someone, you have to make sure to replace them. You don't just cut Earl Thomas because he's 26 and be content with Steven Terrell.

2010-2012 saw Seattle select six starters and three Pro Bowlers PER YEAR, as well as a lot of good depth. That's historic, not the norm. 2013 was a bad draft and everything since then has been average, maybe slightly below average in the depth department. We've also had some of bad injury luck in those drafts (Jordan Hill, Jesse Williams, Tharold Simon, C.J. Prosise, Quinton Jefferson, Malik McDowell, and honestly Tyler Lockett).

Also, weren't you guys demanding 10 OL picks every year? It's not like they can reload the defense when that's happening.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Also, weren't you guys demanding 10 OL picks every year? It's not like they can reload the defense when that's happening.

Problem is we've spent more draft capital on the O-line than any other team over the past 6-7 years, it just hasn't worked.

There in lies the indictment on Carroll and Schneider...............they not only wasted picks and signings on the O-line, they failed to re-load on defense to make up for it.

Seriously, this team is at a crossroads with Pete and John if you're Allen. Do you trust them to re-tool and re-gain some of that draft magic to fix what's wrong? As much as they've done right, not so sure the answer is yes.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Good: Brown, Richardson, Carson, McDougald, Griffin, Pocic, Thorpe, McKissic, Mike Davis

Bad: Lacy, Joeckel, Walsh, McDowell, Thompson, Senior

All in all, it wasn't a horrible season. We nabbed two currently Pro Bowl-caliber players (Brown and Richardson) and four likely long-term starters.

The 2011-2013 drafts might possibly be the best three-draft series in NFL history. You can't exactly fault a GM for not reproducing it every year.

Pretty spot on. I had high hopes Lacy would at least be decent. Swing and a miss on my part.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Also, weren't you guys demanding 10 OL picks every year? It's not like they can reload the defense when that's happening.

Problem is we've spent more draft capital on the O-line than any other team over the past 6-7 years, it just hasn't worked.

There in lies the indictment on Carroll and Schneider...............they not only wasted picks and signings on the O-line, they failed to re-load on defense to make up for it.

Seriously, this team is at a crossroads with Pete and John if you're Allen. Do you trust them to re-tool and re-gain some of that draft magic to fix what's wrong? As much as they've done right, not so sure the answer is yes.

Time for the main coaches on the assistant coaching staff to go. If Pete has a problem with that it’s time to move on. It kills me to say it might be time to move on from the only guy to get us a Lombardi.

 

[Subzero717]

Scot G. McCloughan made JS look good. He built the Hawks into that back to back Super Bowl team. He's proven to be an incredible talent evaluator.

JS should hire him back now - baggage and all.

He's obviously available.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 959646001/

He runs a scouting/consulting service. Seems like a way better gig.

Then hire that consulting service. McGloughan drafted future hall of famers. PC and JS have drafted a "few solid contributors."

Scheinder and Pete (along with Cable) get ALL the blame. Our drafts have been terrible since McGloughan left.

Someone else pointed it out on Twitter but the same time Mcloughan left was the same year Carroll's insight/familiarty with college recruits ended.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's done some great stuff. But.....Walsh/Lacy/Joekel ukeface:

 

[xgeoff]

He's done some great stuff. But.....Walsh/Lacy/Joekel ukeface:

Yeah, his FA and trades hae been hit and miss. Mostly miss lately. The drafts have really been pretty atrocious since 2012. Who have we gotten of any significance from those drafts? Tyler Lockett and Chris Carson? The rest have been mercurial at best (e.g. Clark, Reed, etc.)

The offensive line moves (aside from Duane Brown) have been particularly awful. The only reason Britt wasn't a complete disaster is because he transitioned into a decent C on his last chance to find a fit on the OL.