Audibles. How much leeway is Wilson given ?

[vin.couve12]

I think Russ doess have his checks at the line. We know as much because it's been stated by Schottenheimer, that I know of. If Pete said it too then great. What Russ does though, is stay withing the confines of the structure that he's given. Sometimes to a fault. Week 1 last year Schotty talked about him holding the ball too long. That has and probably will be an issue. He likes to try for the long ball and can dig himself a hole. It is, howeve, somewhat part of the offense given its heavy play action nature. This is a really QB friendly offense as far as efficiency goes and Russ is near ideal within those confines. At one point it was line protection. At another point it was hot plays with a run pass option. It's better now than it was...I mean, Bevell even had a hard time getting the play in on time as we'd watch the clock wind down and barely get the ball hiked (which also gives DL an edge in get off so they don't have to guess like Mike B). But people also need to be at least scientifically, statistically realistic. There are 7 games in RW's career where we were actually much more of a high octane offense (to the point where even Rawls looked good) and we tried for 3 straight years from 2015 to 2017. It was that 7 games and that 7 games only where Russ was highly tuned in to a spread approach, getting the ball out fast and accurately. That 7 games was the exception, not the norm in a realistic, data format of performance in a spread offense. You would also look at Russ's 2 minute and 4th quarter play and see that he's at his best playing off the cuff where he's not having to stand there and run through all his checks and overthink. I understand hope and fanhood and all that, but Russ executes the current offense extremely well. The fact that the coaches should have adjusted to the Cowboys game and didn't was also an exception. That is on them, but it also doesn't equate to some broad sweeping ideology that we need to go balls out passing just for the sake of Russ's fans and entertainment. We need to win and therefore we need to be balanced so that we are efficient in all areas so that we can go to the appropriate well when needed, such as the Cowboys game.

Stay the coarse. Run the ball and let Russ make huge plays off of that. If a defense is filling the box, open up the passing game. It's not rocket surgery.

 

[IndyHawk]

I think Russ doess have his checks at the line. We know as much because it's been stated by Schottenheimer, that I know of. If Pete said it too then great. What Russ does though, is stay withing the confines of the structure that he's given. Sometimes to a fault. Week 1 last year Schotty talked about him holding the ball too long. That has and probably will be an issue. He likes to try for the long ball and can dig himself a hole. It is, howeve, somewhat part of the offense given its heavy play action nature. This is a really QB friendly offense as far as efficiency goes and Russ is near ideal within those confines. At one point it was line protection. At another point it was hot plays with a run pass option. It's better now than it was...I mean, Bevell even had a hard time getting the play in on time as we'd watch the clock wind down and barely get the ball hiked (which also gives DL an edge in get off so they don't have to guess like Mike B). But people also need to be at least scientifically, statistically realistic. There are 7 games in RW's career where we were actually much more of a high octane offense (to the point where even Rawls looked good) and we tried for 3 straight years from 2015 to 2017. It was that 7 games and that 7 games only where Russ was highly tuned in to a spread approach, getting the ball out fast and accurately. That 7 games was the exception, not the norm in a realistic, data format of performance in a spread offense. You would also look at Russ's 2 minute and 4th quarter play and see that he's at his best playing off the cuff where he's not having to stand there and run through all his checks and overthink. I understand hope and fanhood and all that, but Russ executes the current offense extremely well. The fact that the coaches should have adjusted to the Cowboys game and didn't was also an exception. That is on them, but it also doesn't equate to some broad sweeping ideology that we need to go balls out passing just for the sake of Russ's fans and entertainment. We need to win and therefore we need to be balanced so that we are efficient in all areas so that we can go to the appropriate well when needed, such as the Cowboys game.

Stay the coarse. Run the ball and let Russ make huge plays off of that. If a defense is filling the box, open up the passing game. It's not rocket surgery.

:2thumbs: :irishdrinkers:

 

[chris98251]

Paragraph breaks are your friend. Walls of texts get hard to read.

 

[Tical21]

Amazes me some will take any chance, even making stuff up to rank on our players

Lighten up ...we're short on topics this time of year...thnx for participating . :0190l:

Not to mention virtually every criticism of Russ in this thread has been bracketed by the acknowledgment that he is a fantastic quarterback!

Look I have no problem criticizing him or any player but at least let it be legit backed by facts. I mean there are things I think he needs to improve on, but then again I think e very player can be better including the supposed GOAt Brady. However to just make stuff up such as he cant read defenses he plays bad against a zone, yet he led the lelague in Qb rating against a zone just last year and has been top 5 for several years.

Are you in the Seattle area? I’d be happy to watch a game with you sometime. Before the ball is snapped, I’ll show you when Russ is having a problem reading the defense.

He still has exceptional ratings against zone because he throws an amazing deep ball, checks down often and he often gets out of the pocket against zone, where we know he is extremely dangerous. He also does not throw a ball when he doesn’t know what’s going on, so he takes sacks instead of forcing balls into windows. There’s a reason he always leads the league in time before release. The sack number willl also give you a pretty good indication. Next time you watch a game and you think it is a zone defense, watch what happens. The ball is almost never going to come out with anticipation into a window. Literally almost never. He doesn’t have to read defenses to be crazy effective, but not being able to read a defense does make it more difficult to audible into the right play. I do, however, think Schotty is getting him pointed in the right direction. That said, basing our offense off the run and play-action totally is the best way to get the most out of Russ’ elite playmaking ability.

 

[chris98251]

Wilson rarely uses a hot read or it's not part of the scheme, Schotty had said something in his interview about getting the ball to Carson and or Penny more passing, wondering if this aspect will be implemented more. With Lockett and presumably DK on the outside and their speed they cannot cheat up which should open a lot of underneath clearing routes that can be dumps or hot reads.

 

[John63]

Lighten up ...we're short on topics this time of year...thnx for participating . :0190l:

Not to mention virtually every criticism of Russ in this thread has been bracketed by the acknowledgment that he is a fantastic quarterback!

Look I have no problem criticizing him or any player but at least let it be legit backed by facts. I mean there are things I think he needs to improve on, but then again I think e very player can be better including the supposed GOAt Brady. However to just make stuff up such as he cant read defenses he plays bad against a zone, yet he led the lelague in Qb rating against a zone just last year and has been top 5 for several years.

Are you in the Seattle area? I’d be happy to watch a game with you sometime. Before the ball is snapped, I’ll show you when Russ is having a problem reading the defense.

He still has exceptional ratings against zone because he throws an amazing deep ball, checks down often and he often gets out of the pocket against zone, where we know he is extremely dangerous. He also does not throw a ball when he doesn’t know what’s going on, so he takes sacks instead of forcing balls into windows. There’s a reason he always leads the league in time before release. The sack number willl also give you a pretty good indication. Next time you watch a game and you think it is a zone defense, watch what happens. The ball is almost never going to come out with anticipation into a window. Literally almost never. He doesn’t have to read defenses to be crazy effective, but not being able to read a defense does make it more difficult to audible into the right play. I do, however, think Schotty is getting him pointed in the right direction. That said, basing our offense off the run and play-action totally is the best way to get the most out of Russ’ elite playmaking ability.

Yes Seattle area and I have no desire to watch a game with you nor would.believe anything you say. Your stance is well documented and is so anti Wilson I would not believe a word you said. So again unless you have proof beyond your biased opinion, or a real expert saying otherwise I will go with the facts and expert statements I provided.

 

[Scorpion05]

Because people here have said "he doesnt have a brain" or "cant read defenses."

Oh wait, they havent.

Lol. Are you just here to win an argument? I’ve been here long enough to see those comments

In a thread last year during the season, I posted extensive examples of Russ compared to other QBs like Brady, etc.

If I post those, and find examples of people on here saying Russ somehow isn’t smart enough. As well as experts acknowledging his reads pre-snap, will you admit you’re wrong? Or is this one of those things where the narrative matters more than the truth?

 

[Fade]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1147162222755483648[/tweet]

People like Tical & IndyHawk are mistranslating Russell Wilson's supposed struggles against zone defenses over the years.


Seattle in years past had diminutive WRs, a horrible O-Line which gave the QB little time to throw, A rigid scheme that doesn't allow a lot of in-breaking routes, to go a long with a HC that doesn't want him to take chances, which leads to him holding the ball a lot.

Their opponents only needed to rush 4, have the zone defenders squat on all of the underneath routes, and have 2 high safeties play deep to take away anything over the top.

This is literally the highest degree of difficulty a QB can deal with, and Tical has acknowledged such in the past.

Wilson still beasted through this difficult stretch. Leading the league in TD passes in 2017.

(As a side note: Teams often play zone against Wilson because it puts 22 eyeballs on the QB which is needed because of Wilson's ability to scramble.)


He still has issues for sure though. Playing behind a Cable O-Line for that long is going to give you happy feet, which he still has problems with. He still doesn't read and process it as fast as guys like Brees, Rivers, and Brady, but realistically I don't expect that given those guys have at least twice the starting experience compared to Wilson.

Mechanically from the pocket he was better than he has ever been in 2018 though. Schotty really helped him in this area.


Onto the Audibles:

Pete Carroll is a control freak, and everything is done his way. They are running an offense straight out of 1997, with some variations of zone read thrown in.

Mahomes had more audible power in his 1st year starting than Wilson had in his 7th year starting. Because that is how coach wants it.

It is a coaching choice, not a QB impediment.

Pete wants to win with defense & running the football. The offenses job is to not screw it up, and to take care of the football. Until they need more points in the 2nd half of course. Then it turns into Russell Wilson save us mode.

 

[Palmegranite]

Part of the issue is that i think reading defenses is the weakest part of Russ' game. Especially when it comes to zone.

Tical says "quit stealing my moves"

 

[Palmegranite]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1147162222755483648[/tweet]

People like Tical & IndyHawk are mistranslating Russell Wilson's supposed struggles against zone defenses over the years.


Seattle in years past had diminutive WRs, a horrible O-Line which gave the QB little time to throw, A rigid scheme that doesn't allow a lot of in-breaking routes, to go a long with a HC that doesn't want him to take chances, which leads to him holding the ball a lot.

Their opponents only needed to rush 4, have the zone defenders squat on all of the underneath routes, and have 2 high safeties play deep to take away anything over the top.

This is literally the highest degree of difficulty a QB can deal with, and Tical has acknowledged such in the past.

Wilson still beasted through this difficult stretch. Leading the league in TD passes in 2017.

(As a side note: Teams often play zone against Wilson because it puts 22 eyeballs on the QB which is needed because of Wilson's ability to scramble.)


He still has issues for sure though. Playing behind a Cable O-Line for that long is going to give you happy feet, which he still has problems with. He still doesn't read and process it as fast as guys like Brees, Rivers, and Brady, but realistically I don't expect that given those guys have at least twice the starting experience compared to Wilson.

Mechanically from the pocket he was better than he has ever been in 2018 though. Schotty really helped him in this area.


Onto the Audibles:

Pete Carroll is a control freak, and everything is done his way. They are running an offense straight out of 1997, with some variations of zone read thrown in.

Mahomes had more audible power in his 1st year starting than Wilson had in his 7th year starting. Because that is how coach wants it.

It is a coaching choice, not a QB impediment.

Pete wants to win with defense & running the football. The offenses job is to not screw it up, and to take care of the football. Until they need more points in the 2nd half of course. Then it turns into Russell Wilson save us mode.

Finally a response that thoroughly and accurately sums up the issue. I've said it more than once; Pete needs to hand the keys of the offence to Russ and sit back and enjoy the winning streak.

 

[chris98251]

Pete won't, I think he is a lot like Mike Ditka in this regard but smarter with how he delivers the message both to the players and the fans and media. Bud Grant was a lot like this with Tarkenton, except Tarkenton like Farve would do his own thing a lot and drove Grant nuts, I can remember seeing him on the sidelines on TV with those Sapphire blue eyes glaring at Tarkenton.

 

[McGruff]

Pete won't, I think he is a lot like Mike Ditka in this regard but smarter with how he delivers the message both to the players and the fans and media. Bud Grant was a lot like this with Tarkenton, except Tarkenton like Farve would do his own thing a lot and drove Grant nuts, I can remember seeing him on the sidelines on TV with those Sapphire blue eyes glaring at Tarkenton.

You REALLY like Bud Grant.

 

[pehawk]

sidelines on TV with those Sapphire blue eyes glaring at Tarkenton.

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