Boy Andrew Luck sure is overrated

[homerun1970]

If you switched them right now by the time Unger and Miller return luck will be on IR. Why are you so bent on proving that the Colts Qb is the second coming. They are both good both also have strengths and weakness. Luck I do not think would be as successful behind this Oline and this stable of receivers would be as Russ has been to this point. Russ is more careful with the ball I don't know that he would be as limited in int's with the Colts more wide open offense.

 

[HansGruber]

The Luck vs Wilson argument is like the Manning vs Brady argument. Fun for analysts and fans of other teams, but no fun for Colts fans. It's got to suck to be a Colts fan, always telling yourself you have the greatest QB in the NFL and watching in misery as they become turnover machines in the playoffs and you never get anything meaningful from their greatness. Even in the wildly inferior AFC, the Colts just can't get it done. Unfortunately for Luck and Irsay, Rex Grossman has retired and the NFC actually has some good teams, so it doesn't look like they'll be winning anything meaningful anytime soon either.

Andrew Luck in the postseason = 7 TDs (rush+pass), 8 INTs, 1 FUM, 55% Cmp%, 7.59 Y/A, 70.0 QB Rating and a record of 1-2

Russell Wilson in the postseason = 7 TDs, 1 INT, 1 FUM, 63.08% Cmp%, 8.43 Y/A, 102 QB Rating and a record of 4-1

This is the kind of stuff that kills me.

Please.. try to compare the Colts defenses in 2012 and 2013.. to the Seahawks defenses

Please.. try to compare the Colts running attack in 2012 and 2013 to what Marshawn Lynch alone gave Seattle in the postseason.

Instead of going DERP DERP LUCK THROWS MOAR PICKS.. consider the two teams. And yeah, that Colts defense is sure amazing! Judging by the 522 yards passing they gave up to Ben Roethlisberger yesterday.

Again.. when you throw the ball 500 more times.. there is a fairly good chance that said QB may have more interceptions than the other guy.

I love Russ.. but if you switched Luck and him right now.. Luck would be winning just as many games as Wilson has.. and Wilson would be turning over the ball more than he is now. The situations are entirely different. Entirely.

I love the irony of you talking about derping, then going on to belch out some full-on derping.

Maybe you could enlighten me as to how the Colts defense caused all those picks and fumbles. Oh no, I understand, it was the RB's fault. Heck, might as well go full apologist and you can tell me all about how TY Hilton wouldn't even make Seahawks roster because Wilson has so many better weapons. Yawn.

Thanks for the brilliant insight.

 

[HansGruber]

I love Russ.. but if you switched Luck and him right now..

If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

We could play this game all day. If Wilson had those receivers, he'd have less losses and two superbowls. He'd throw for so many yards that aliens would fly to earth to see it and then kidnap him to study in their labs. Realistically, there's a good chance he would have broken every rookie passing record. And maybe he wouldn't have divorced his wife.

The universe of ifs is a very large and limitless place. And a refuge for those who make poor arguments with no supporting evidenced.

 

[Scottemojo]

You want to talk about getting a pass from the media? Luck tripped baccking up to throw yesterday, and from his ass threw the ball away. The game announcer starts praising his awareness for getting rid of the ball, but then has to backtrack as an official throws a flag for intentional grounding and signals a safety..

Well.. chalk that up to Nantz/Simms for the praise.

But if we're pointing out bad moments in a game.. one could easily point to Russell Wilson throwing a Tim Wakefield like knuckleball when he had a guy so wide open that he could have literally walked into the end zone.

They're both great QB's that will make mistakes. Why can people on this board not admit that?

I can. And have. I wasn't denigrating his skills, I said his results don't match the praise.

FWIW, I think they are GOOD, not great QBs who both still have a lot of room to grow. I hate media fluffing. I'm also not very fond of apologists who portray Luck as a white knight surrounded by buffoons as teammates. His tight ends are better than ours. His receivers are better too. Bradshaw is averaging 5 yards a run. Until yesterday, the Colts were leading the league in 3rd down stops. In fact, FO has them ranked just behind Seattle as the 5th best team in the league in DVOA, with their D and O being very comparable to ours.

 

[WilsonMVP]

The point is that Luck throws an INT every 44 passes AGAINST CRAP DEFENSES. Wilson throws and INT every 42 passes against ELITE defenses.

Someone posted Luck vs Wilson against common opponents and it wasn't even close. Luck looked like crap and Wilson shined. I'd dig it up, but what's the point? Luck Believers have ALL seen it and just block it from their minds.

I've got Wilson at 19-8 and Luck at 20-10 against common opponents through yesterday's games. Also Luck won head to head which isn't reflected in those records. Looks fairly close to me. Maybe you're the one that's blocking things you don't want to see from your mind.

I know there was a comparison their rookie years

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/85192/wilson-luck-vs-same-eight-opponents


Luck had 14TD/13INT 54% completion and a 74.6 rating
Wilson had 17TD/1INT 64% completion and a 114.4 rating

Somehow the Colts managed to go 5-3 and the Hawks went 6-2.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Luck was mightily impressive yesterday in almost pulling off yet another miracle comeback.

That said, his boneheaded pick 6 that every man and his dog saw coming a mile off to help put them in that position sure had something to do with it...

If he went down and scored instead of throwing a pick six the game is 14-10...but he makes a stupid decision and its suddenly 21-3

 

[bmorepunk]

It's got to suck to be a Colts fan, always telling yourself you have the greatest QB in the NFL and watching in misery as they become turnover machines in the playoffs and you never get anything meaningful from their greatness.

Colts fans have had a team that has gone to the playoffs pretty consistently for the last 15 years and got a Super Bowl out of it. Few fan bases have had it better.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Luck was legitimately having to carry the Colts his first season, now not as much.

One thing I'll say about Luck.....he does make mistakes and can be careless with the ball, but he does inspire the ability to come from behind if need be better than the other young QBs. He didn't deserve to win that playoff game versus Kansas City, but he still got it done. He made the Pittsburgh game close.

If he was QBing the Niners or Cardinals versus Denver, I believe he finds a way to get more points on the board to make the games interesting. You don't get the sense the door is permanently shut with him.

It does happen.....last year vs Cardinals and Rams, his team was blown out.

He's far from perfect but if you're gonna build a new expansion team from scratch and you can only use QBs drafted from 2011 and on, I'd say he would be #1 on the list.

Handing him to a powerhouse balanced team, I'm not so sure. But it wouldn't be a mistake to grab him.

If Tony Romo can be taught to play risk averse ball this late in his career, you can get Luck to do the same.

LOL @ "he made the steeler game close"....was I watching the same game?

So the D getting 2 turnovers and blocking Bens kick didnt have anything to do with the Colts coming back?

 

[WilsonMVP]

Luck was legitimately having to carry the Colts his first season, now not as much.

One thing I'll say about Luck.....he does make mistakes and can be careless with the ball, but he does inspire the ability to come from behind if need be better than the other young QBs. He didn't deserve to win that playoff game versus Kansas City, but he still got it done. He made the Pittsburgh game close.

If he was QBing the Niners or Cardinals versus Denver, I believe he finds a way to get more points on the board to make the games interesting. You don't get the sense the door is permanently shut with him.

It does happen.....last year vs Cardinals and Rams, his team was blown out.

He's far from perfect but if you're gonna build a new expansion team from scratch and you can only use QBs drafted from 2011 and on, I'd say he would be #1 on the list.

Handing him to a powerhouse balanced team, I'm not so sure. But it wouldn't be a mistake to grab him.

If Tony Romo can be taught to play risk averse ball this late in his career, you can get Luck to do the same.

Like I said earlier, Luck knows he's not going to win very many games by sitting back and waiting until the fourth quarter to lead his first touchdown drive of the day. Ultimately, he's out there trying to win the game for his team and not just avoid mistakes at all costs. He doesn't have the luxury of having a historically great defense to back him up. If he did, I think you would see him modify his play and risk-taking quite a bit because it wouldn't be necessary to take as many chances to put his team in a position to win the game. On the rare occasion that he does have the benefit of a defense that is dominating (like last week against the Bengals) he pulls his play in quite a bit. The guy has an architectural design degree from Stanford. He's not dumb.

The bottom line is that he was drafted first overall to, at the time, the worst team in football. He led that team from two wins to double-digit wins his first two seasons and is on pace to do it again. That is pretty remarkable and aside from Peyton Manning I don't believe any other quarterback in football would've had this same Colts team in the playoffs both of the past two years. In spite of some claims here, the team from top to bottom is not nearly as good as the better teams in the league.

Why do we have to hear this crap about how he lead this terrible colts team to the playoffs...you do realize that the team the year before was lead by quite possibly the worst QB play in the league in idk how many years....CMON the QBs were

Curtis Painter 8 games
Dan Orlovsky 5 games
Kerry Collins 3 games

Not to mention the fact they completely turned over the roster...during the offseason last year around draft time they only had 7 players from that 2011 team....7......

 

[HansGruber]

It's got to suck to be a Colts fan, always telling yourself you have the greatest QB in the NFL and watching in misery as they become turnover machines in the playoffs and you never get anything meaningful from their greatness.

Colts fans have had a team that has gone to the playoffs pretty consistently for the last 15 years and got a Super Bowl out of it. Few fan bases have had it better.

Pretty sure everyone from New England, New York, Pittsburgh and Baltimore would disagree with that.

In fact, one of my co-workers is from New England, and I'm quite positive he would take umbrage with that. He often laughs (really loud) in Peyton Manning's fans faces and loves to ask them how it felt to watch Peyton Manning lose a dozen times to Brady and the Pats. I have to admit, it's pretty humorous. The Colts have been the bitches of the AFC for so long it's pathetic. And openly choking away an entire season for the "next sure thing" didn't help them one bit. I laugh so hard at that fact every time I'm reminded of it.

Also, Jim Irsay does not agree with you. He said as much himself on Twitter when he dumped Manning. He is very openly bitter about having so little postseason success with all those opportunities. Irsay created quite the scandal when he tweeted(?) that.

 

[HansGruber]

I hope the Indy fan can come back and explain how Indy WASN'T choking away a season when they chose to bring Kerry Collins out of retirement rather than sign Carson Palmer, who was available. That's a laugher right there.

Everyone on Planet Earth knew the Colts were choking on purpose when Irsay chose to roll with Curtis Painter and Kerry Collins when there were a couple QBs available who were better. Hell, if you're going to go with someone out of retirement, they could have at least made an offer to Brett Farvre who was rumored to be interested. Much less, Carson Palmer.

The reason they didn't is because Irsay knew that Palmer and Farvre would have won 2-3 more games and that would have knocked him out of the Suck for Luck sweepstakes.

Again, it is just pure brilliant hilarious KARMA that Luck has turned out to be the next Marino/Manning tease. Enjoy watching your team get close for the next decade but never win it. LOL

 

[WilsonMVP]

Other than that 62-7 thrashing by the Saints in the Suck For Luck season, they lost 7 of their 14 games by a single possession, so they weren't quite as dreadful as they're made out to be (Houston and Tennessee were 1st and 2nd at 10-6 and 9-7 respectively and both lost to Indy; we don't even need to mention the Jags.) All they needed was the slightest blip of talent on offense to at least end some of those drives in FG's.

For all the crap we had to hear about the 'NFC Worst' the AFC South has always been the real dumpster, hidden by the golden boy gleam of Manning and now Luck.

The funny thing is....EVERY team from the NFC West has been in the Superbowl since 2000. Seahawks twice, Rams twice, Cards once, 49ers once.

In the past 14 superbowls...the NFC West has had 6 appearances

 

[bmorepunk]

It's got to suck to be a Colts fan, always telling yourself you have the greatest QB in the NFL and watching in misery as they become turnover machines in the playoffs and you never get anything meaningful from their greatness.

Colts fans have had a team that has gone to the playoffs pretty consistently for the last 15 years and got a Super Bowl out of it. Few fan bases have had it better.

Pretty sure everyone from New England, New York, Pittsburgh and Baltimore would disagree with that.

In fact, one of my co-workers is from New England, and I'm quite positive he would take umbrage with that. He often laughs (really loud) in Peyton Manning's fans faces and loves to ask them how it felt to watch Peyton Manning lose a dozen times to Brady and the Pats. I have to admit, it's pretty humorous. The Colts have been the bitches of the AFC for so long it's pathetic. And openly choking away an entire season for the "next sure thing" didn't help them one bit. I laugh so hard at that fact every time I'm reminded of it.

Also, Jim Irsay does not agree with you. He said as much himself on Twitter when he dumped Manning. He is very openly bitter about having so little postseason success with all those opportunities. Irsay created quite the scandal when he tweeted(?) that.

Those would be the "few fan bases" I mentioned. Can you name 20-something other franchises that would have taken their situation over what Colts fans have had over the last few years?

Irsay is a drug addict.

 

[WilsonMVP]

It's got to suck to be a Colts fan, always telling yourself you have the greatest QB in the NFL and watching in misery as they become turnover machines in the playoffs and you never get anything meaningful from their greatness.

Colts fans have had a team that has gone to the playoffs pretty consistently for the last 15 years and got a Super Bowl out of it. Few fan bases have had it better.

Pretty sure everyone from New England, New York, Pittsburgh and Baltimore would disagree with that.

In fact, one of my co-workers is from New England, and I'm quite positive he would take umbrage with that. He often laughs (really loud) in Peyton Manning's fans faces and loves to ask them how it felt to watch Peyton Manning lose a dozen times to Brady and the Pats. I have to admit, it's pretty humorous. The Colts have been the bitches of the AFC for so long it's pathetic. And openly choking away an entire season for the "next sure thing" didn't help them one bit. I laugh so hard at that fact every time I'm reminded of it.

Also, Jim Irsay does not agree with you. He said as much himself on Twitter when he dumped Manning. He is very openly bitter about having so little postseason success with all those opportunities. Irsay created quite the scandal when he tweeted(?) that.

Those would be the "few fan bases" I mentioned. Can you name 20-something other franchises that would have taken their situation over what Colts fans have had over the last few years?

Irsay is a drug addict.

Packers have had a HOF QB since 1994 and 2 superbowls

 

[chris98251]

Yeah, but one was a trade from Atlanta and the other the 24th pick I think in the draft. Hardly Sucking for a player.

 

[bmorepunk]

Both the Packers and Colts lucked into a rare situation. They shed Hall of Fame QBs then end up having/getting top talent in the position immediately. If Luck continues to develop and Rodgers doesn't suddenly flame out, these teams are set at that position for nearly 3 decades.

The AFC East is probably the most miserable divisions in the last 15 years at the position. The Patriots have Brady, but the Dolphins, Bills, and Jets have had little outside of suck for that period.

I'm really glad this team has Wilson. Teams can seemingly sit and stew for for an eternity without a good quarterback. That's probably why average ones are getting paid huge money.

 

[kearly]

Regarding Indy's weapons, I'd take our group of RB/TE/WRs over theirs any day. If Hilton is better than Baldwin, for me it's close. And though I love Bradshaw, he is blown away by Lynch. Seattle's depth at RB and WR is far better as well.

All that being said, the supporting talent argument against Wilson is lame. It's one step above saying Wilson is a game manager. Supporting talent is hardly an overarching factor. You think NFL scouts discount Marcus Mariota because he plays for Oregon? No, because they actually used their eyeballs to determine that Mariota is an elite college QB prospect.

I am fine with saying Wilson is an elite QB... best numbers in the history of the league through 2.5 seasons. I think Luck is like a more tenacious Big Ben. I respect that he never gives up in a game. Both QBs are getting better all the time, and both will probably end up in Canton.

I think both would be great in Seattle, though I do think Luck is miscast in Indy. At Stanford, Luck was unstoppable because his coach (Jim Harbaugh) used him much the way Kaepernick is being used right now. And Luck was pretty much unstoppable in that kind of setup, managing the game and winning with defense and rushing.

Indy has been trying to get more physical as a team, so I think they understand this. It would be funny if in five years Wilson was like 2007 Tom Brady and Luck was like 2012 Wilson.

 

[Scottemojo]

Regarding Indy's weapons, I'd take our group of RB/TE/WRs over theirs any day. If Hilton is better than Baldwin, for me it's close. And though I love Bradshaw, he is blown away by Lynch. Seattle's depth at RB and WR is far better as well.

All that being said, the supporting talent argument against Wilson is lame. It's one step above saying Wilson is a game manager. Supporting talent is hardly an overarching factor. You think NFL scouts discount Marcus Mariota because he plays for Oregon? No, because they actually used their eyeballs to determine that Mariota is an elite college QB prospect.

I am fine with saying Wilson is an elite QB... best numbers in the history of the league through 2.5 seasons. I think Luck is like a more tenacious Big Ben. I respect that he never gives up in a game. Both QBs are getting better all the time, and both will probably end up in Canton.

I think both would be great in Seattle, though I do think Luck is miscast in Indy. At Stanford, Luck was unstoppable because his coach (Jim Harbaugh) used him much the way Kaepernick is being used right now. And Luck was pretty much unstoppable in that kind of setup, managing the game and winning with defense and rushing.

Indy has been trying to get more physical as a team, so I think they understand this. It would be funny if in five years Wilson was like 2007 Tom Brady and Luck was like 2012 Wilson.

I really expected a better over all run game from Indy this year, but Richardson sucks, though even with his suck, they are averaging 4 per run. The whole supporting cast argument, which is crap, is about Lynch. Otherwise, the supporting cast nod goes to Indy. The offensive line in Indy gets a lot of criticism, but like Wilson, a lot of that is on Luck for holding the ball a long time.

I don't care who pundits say is better of the two. I really don't. I find myself muting broadcasts of both QBs when the praise gets effusive. In fact, if Luck were to rack up MVP trophies while pundits snubbed Wilson, I can see that being a good motivator for Wilson, he kind of needs the doubt, IMO. As long as the playoff wins keep coming.

He can keep being Marino. As long as we have Montana.

 

[Seahwkgal]

Say what you want about Luck, but he is tearing up for us FF players. From a pure football perspective, I think he is an outstanding young QB that if we had him, we would think he is the bomb. I really don't get the hate here. I think Russ is more clutch and more athletic but you are an idiot if you think Luck is not a really good QB.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[SomersetHawk]

Say what you want about Luck, but he is tearing up for us FF players. From a pure football perspective, I think he is an outstanding young QB that if we had him, we would think he is the bomb. I really don't get the hate here. I think Russ is more clutch and more athletic but you are an idiot if you think Luck is not a really good QB.

Just my 2 cents.

Can anyone who doesn't think Luck is a really good QB please say so? All I see (and all I've seen) is a lot of people who hate the hype (not the QB) and have some fun when the chosen one contradicts the self-fulfilling prophetic narrative, like this...

Luck tripped baccking up to throw yesterday, and from his ass threw the ball away. The game announcer starts praising his awareness for getting rid of the ball, but then has to backtrack as an official throws a flag for intentional grounding and signals a safety.

It's just funny when someone who can't do wrong, does wrong.