BRADY/PATS PUNISHMENT OVER TURNED BY JUDGE. (Updated 9/3/15)

[chris98251]

The thing that Pats fans don't understand is the burden of evidence that the league is making this call on is not what a court looks at it is what the league looks at.

The league is a exclusive club, they have their own rules and ways of handling things, it is not a court of law anymore then your employer is. They can fine, suspend and fire for reasons detrimental to the brand, The NFL is the brand, it has been tarnished due to Brady and his actions that have been collaborated by others.

Now if he wants to go to court, he will have to turn over all evidence he has along with bringing a bunch of other witnesses to testify under oath, including Belichek and Kraft. The NFL has avoided really going after them, they did the team punishment, also this would be done on Brady's nickel, now lets think about how long the NFL could string this out as well. Once done if he is found guilty he can kiss his induction into the Hall of Fame goodbye ala Pete Rose also as a cheater and the league would black ball him.

Do you think he wants to take that chance also?

 

[Sports Hernia]

The thing that Pats fans don't understand is the burden of evidence that the league is making this call on is not what a court looks at it is what the league looks at.

The league is a exclusive club, they have their own rules and ways of handling things, it is not a court of law anymore then your employer is. They can fine, suspend and fire for reasons detrimental to the brand, The NFL is the brand, it has been tarnished due to Brady and his actions that have been collaborated by others.

Now if he wants to go to court, he will have to turn over all evidence he has along with bringing a bunch of other witnesses to testify under oath, including Belichek and Kraft. The NFL has avoided really going after them, they did the team punishment, also this would be done on Brady's nickel, now lets think about how long the NFL could string this out as well. Once done if he is found guilty he can kiss his induction into the Hall of Fame goodbye ala Pete Rose also as a cheater and the league would black ball him.

Do you think he wants to take that chance also?

Well put. I don't think he does. ....but I would like to see him take it to court for the reasons you mentioned. 8)

 

[Laloosh]

Just give me a live video feed on any bridge in the NE area the day after the appeal. I'll swig a beer for every jumper in a Brady jersey.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

Just give me a live video feed on any bridge in the NE area the day after the appeal. I'll swig a beer for every jumper in a Brady jersey.

The appeal with Goodell is a foregone conclusion, nobody expects relief there. Goodell may offer to reduce it to 2 games but Brady won't accept that. He and the NFLPA will bring it to Judge Doty's federal court in Minnesota, and Doty will overturn the whole suspension just like he did for Jonathan Vilma, who Goodell suspended for 16 games.

The Wells report is so full of holes that the judge will have no choice but to trash it. Brady won't serve any suspension at all, of that I'm 100% certain. And I'll be back to take my medicine if I'm wrong about it.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

The thing that Pats fans don't understand is the burden of evidence that the league is making this call on is not what a court looks at it is what the league looks at.

The league is a exclusive club, they have their own rules and ways of handling things, it is not a court of law anymore then your employer is. They can fine, suspend and fire for reasons detrimental to the brand, The NFL is the brand, it has been tarnished due to Brady and his actions that have been collaborated by others.

Now if he wants to go to court, he will have to turn over all evidence he has along with bringing a bunch of other witnesses to testify under oath, including Belichek and Kraft. The NFL has avoided really going after them, they did the team punishment, also this would be done on Brady's nickel, now lets think about how long the NFL could string this out as well. Once done if he is found guilty he can kiss his induction into the Hall of Fame goodbye ala Pete Rose also as a cheater and the league would black ball him.

Do you think he wants to take that chance also?

Well put. I don't think he does. ....but I would like to see him take it to court for the reasons you mentioned. 8)

Brady and the NFLPA have unlimited resources to fight this, if that's your point. And they'll get an injunction so he can play while it's in court.

The NFL can suspend all they want, but there is a federal judge in Minnesota that can and has overturned the league decisions more than once. That's the final word in these cases that are appealed that way, not what Goodell and his kangaroo court decide.

The NFL has harmed Brady's brand, not vice versa. Defamation is very hard to prove, but he could possibly also pursue that given the lies and leaks that came out of the NFL office during this whole mess.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Prepare to take your medicine. There is no way this gets to the federal court before Shady Brady's suspension is up. The NFL can drag their feet on this, and look how long it took to the Saints player to get his case heard. Lots of wishful thinking and some serious delusion in your posts.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

I don't get how you can believe Bradys innocent. Lets say that nothing is even definitive. There is still an abundance of circumstantial evidence... All of which needs extraordinary explanations like deflating in regards to weight loss... And the bathroom, the texts, the facts that the balls actually did deflate more than the Colts balls. At what point does months of circumstantial evidence no longer become coincidence and eventually carry a little weight?

The fact of the matter is simply Patriots fans don't want to believe it. I get that, thats your passion. Its your way of thinking with your heart and not your head. On top of all that evidence you guys want to believe that the NFL wanted this? Its just ridiculous. Its all exactly what it looks like, and what the evidence suggests.

If this was Andrew Luck would all Pats fans be saying he is guilty? Of course they would. I certainly know the fan base wouldn't be defending Luck. May I ask if you are also one of the fans that believes Hernandez is innocent due to the Evidence being circumstantial?

Any circumstantial evidence against Brady is meaningless if the balls weren't even low. If there was no act committed, what is it evidence of?

As far as Luck, after this I will never believe any league case against a player ever again. they are just imcompetent plain and simple

Your posts are full of delusion and false statements. The Pats footballs were far below the required PSI when checked at halftime. That is FACT, that is part of the reason why your hero is being suspended and the other reason is because he didn't cooperate with the investigation. Shady Brady and the Pats are not victims. If you do the crime, then you do the time.


If Tommy and Pats fans don't like the punishment, THEN DON'T CHEAT!
It really is that simple.

Actually no, the balls weren't low, except when Wells decides to use the readings from the wrong gauge to make his case. There were 2 different gauges used that day, and Wells admits that the two were not calibrated and gave readings a half-psi different from each other. Walt Anderson testified that he recalled using gauge A pre-game, but when Wells wasn't happy with that answer, he gets him to say that it's "possible" that gauge B was used. Wells uses gauge B as the basis for his report.

Gauge B makes it appear that the Patriots balls were up to a full psi low. With gauge A, they're only up to half a psi low, which was within the range of normal. If Wells uses Anderson's recollection, NE is within a few tenths of a psi to normal, meaning that no wrongdoing is proven.

In the initial mayhem, nobody in the NFL even knew that balls naturally lost psi in cold weather. Wells' report admits and documents that natural deflation did occur, to both teams' balls. e.g., all of the 4 Colts balls measured were below 12.5.

Also, they only measured 4 of Indy's balls at halftime instead of all 12, because they "ran out of time" as it was time for the 2nd half to begin. If all 12 had been measured, it very well could have narrowed the average difference between the 2 sets of balls. And the 4 Indy balls were measured 10-15 minutes after NE's, meaning they were warmer by then and would measure higher. It was a totally uncontrolled lab conducted in a rushed fashion by idiots who knew nothing about what they were doing, using $5 gauges that weren't even calibrated to each other.

 

[Vetamur]

I don't get how you can believe Bradys innocent. Lets say that nothing is even definitive. There is still an abundance of circumstantial evidence... All of which needs extraordinary explanations like deflating in regards to weight loss... And the bathroom, the texts, the facts that the balls actually did deflate more than the Colts balls. At what point does months of circumstantial evidence no longer become coincidence and eventually carry a little weight?

The fact of the matter is simply Patriots fans don't want to believe it. I get that, thats your passion. Its your way of thinking with your heart and not your head. On top of all that evidence you guys want to believe that the NFL wanted this? Its just ridiculous. Its all exactly what it looks like, and what the evidence suggests.

If this was Andrew Luck would all Pats fans be saying he is guilty? Of course they would. I certainly know the fan base wouldn't be defending Luck. May I ask if you are also one of the fans that believes Hernandez is innocent due to the Evidence being circumstantial?

Any circumstantial evidence against Brady is meaningless if the balls weren't even low. If there was no act committed, what is it evidence of?

As far as Luck, after this I will never believe any league case against a player ever again. they are just imcompetent plain and simple

Your posts are full of delusion and false statements. The Pats footballs were far below the required PSI when checked at halftime. That is FACT, that is part of the reason why your hero is being suspended and the other reason is because he didn't cooperate with the investigation. Shady Brady and the Pats are not victims. If you do the crime, then you do the time.


If Tommy and Pats fans don't like the punishment, THEN DON'T CHEAT!
It really is that simple.

Actually no, the balls weren't low, except when Wells decides to use the readings from the wrong gauge to make his case. There were 2 different gauges used that day, and Wells admits that the two were not calibrated and gave readings a half-psi different from each other. Walt Anderson testified that he recalled using gauge A pre-game, but when Wells wasn't happy with that answer, he gets him to say that it's "possible" that gauge B was used. Wells uses gauge B as the basis for his report.

Gauge B makes it appear that the Patriots balls were up to a full psi low. With gauge A, they're only up to half a psi low, which was within the range of normal. If Wells uses Anderson's recollection, NE is within a few tenths of a psi to normal, meaning that no wrongdoing is proven.

In the initial mayhem, nobody in the NFL even knew that balls naturally lost psi in cold weather. Wells' report admits and documents that natural deflation did occur, to both teams' balls. e.g., all of the 4 Colts balls measured were below 12.5.

Also, they only measured 4 of Indy's balls at halftime instead of all 12, because they "ran out of time" as it was time for the 2nd half to begin. If all 12 had been measured, it very well could have narrowed the average difference between the 2 sets of balls. And the 4 Indy balls were measured 10-15 minutes after NE's, meaning they were warmer by then and would measure higher. It was a totally uncontrolled lab conducted in a rushed fashion by idiots who knew nothing about what they were doing, using $5 gauges that weren't even calibrated to each other.

Like an air tight circumstantial murder case without a weapon, this case doesnt even need the actual gauge readings. They werent done properly because the NFL didnt actually expect to find anything then when they did were caught unprepared. But, all you need is a preponderance of the evidence..and they have that is spades. The people hearing evidence arent going to be people who hero worship Brady..when they hear an equipment guy is called The Deflator, they arent going to believe its about his weight. When they are pissed at Brady and threaten to blow the balls up to "16" or like a rugby ball.. every one else knows what they are talking about.

And no, I really doubt this ever sees a real court room because then all kinds of people are going to get called in and do you think two fired guys are going to perjure themselves for Brady?

You need to accept facts, man.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

What perjury? They didn't do anything to lie about. The balls were not tampered with, at all. Just a bunch of fools that imagined a crime. That's the point.

In your example, if there's no body and nobody's missing, then you can have all the circumstantial evidence you want - a weapon, a witness, a story, fingerprints, whatever. There's nobody dead or missing so there's no case. Maybe they "thought" somebody was missing but then he shows up, so case is dismissed.

 

[Vetamur]

What perjury? They didn't do anything to lie about. That's the point.

In your example, if there's no body and nobody's missing, then you can have all the circumstantial evidence you want - a weapon, a witness, a story, fingerprints, whatever. There's nobody dead or missing so there's no case.

So, why arent they suing for being discharged without cause?

Im a pretty passionate guy about some things, but Ive never been able to totally lose touch with objectivity as much as you have.

What is it you think the Pats are being punished for then? Can you spell out the conspiracy? Its kind of entertaining seeing Patriot fans think the NFL has it out for them when this whole situation clearly hurts the NFL.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The Wells report is so full of holes that the judge will have no choice but to trash it. Brady won't serve any suspension at all, of that I'm 100% certain. And I'll be back to take my medicine if I'm wrong about it.

I think it'll be reduced to 1-2 games. Why else would Kraft have backed off on the fine and loss of picks unless he cut a deal with Goodell that Brady's suspension would be reduced?

You don't go from screaming defiance to anyone that'd listen to rescinding your appeal without some back room deal being cut.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

What perjury? They didn't do anything to lie about. That's the point.

In your example, if there's no body and nobody's missing, then you can have all the circumstantial evidence you want - a weapon, a witness, a story, fingerprints, whatever. There's nobody dead or missing so there's no case.

So, why arent they suing for being discharged without cause?

Im a pretty passionate guy about some things, but Ive never been able to totally lose touch with objectivity as much as you have.

What is it you think the Pats are being punished for then? Can you spell out the conspiracy? Its kind of entertaining seeing Patriot fans think the NFL has it out for them when this whole situation clearly hurts the NFL.

No conspiracy to start with. Colts claim an intercepted ball just before halftime was low (and they broke a rule by measuring it). NFL field staff gets involved and think they have something on the Pats. They are unaware that all the balls are losing psi due to the cold weather. They are also unaware that the 2 gauges being used pregame and at halftime aren't calibrated, and one is measuring a half-psi higher than the other. They measure all NE's balls and find them all under 12.5, ranging from 3/10's to about a full psi low. Just before the 2nd half starts, they measure the Colts balls too, but only "have time" to measure 4 of them, which also are all under 12.5 but less so. If they'd measured all 12, the difference between the 2 sets of balls may have been a lot smaller. They are also unaware that the 15-20 minutes in the locker room is warming up the balls, so higher readings would occur toward the end of halftime. All of this was being done by non-scientists with crude gauges in a rushed 20 minutes.

Then, the leak from a league source to Chris Mortenson claiming all NE's balls were a full 2 psi low, and none of Indy's balls were low at all (wrong on both points). The league does nothing to correct that misinformation. A league VP also sends the Patriots a letter listing all the ball measurements, which the Wells shows were the wrong measurements. In hindsight, it does start to sound like a conspiracy at this point, but the leak, the letter, and the actual measurements are all facts, not my opinion. Hard to explain what the league office was up to with these lies and distortions. I don't think Goodell was intimately involved, but their are a lot of ex-Jets employees in that office who absolutely despise the Patriots.

Then the Wells "investigation". Read PFT/Mike Florio, who's a lawyer, and the way he sees how the investigation got off track and reached a wrong conclusion. The texts made Wells believe the Pats did something, so he then starts to make a case against NE by selectively choosing which facts or statements to use or ignore, creating a very biased result. He could only conclude "more probably than not", and even admits that there are no hard facts.

Goodell paid millions for this report and can't run from it, no matter how flawed. But the punishment is insanely over the top, which again raises questions about the league's fairness, consistency, and integrity.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

The Wells report is so full of holes that the judge will have no choice but to trash it. Brady won't serve any suspension at all, of that I'm 100% certain. And I'll be back to take my medicine if I'm wrong about it.

I think it'll be reduced to 1-2 games. Why else would Kraft have backed off on the fine and loss of picks unless he cut a deal with Goodell that Brady's suspension would be reduced?

You don't go from screaming defiance to anyone that'd listen to rescinding your appeal without some back room deal being cut.

Nobody knows what really happened there. It may have been more that Kraft wasn't getting any support from other owners, and he'd need them to really push an appeal. He changed his tune very quickly, so something definitely happened but we don't know what.

 

[Laloosh]

Best part about this entire thing being over with at some point... Pats fans can stop trying to convince us that their quarterback isn't full of shit.

 

[Vetamur]

What perjury? They didn't do anything to lie about. That's the point.

In your example, if there's no body and nobody's missing, then you can have all the circumstantial evidence you want - a weapon, a witness, a story, fingerprints, whatever. There's nobody dead or missing so there's no case.

So, why arent they suing for being discharged without cause?

Im a pretty passionate guy about some things, but Ive never been able to totally lose touch with objectivity as much as you have.

What is it you think the Pats are being punished for then? Can you spell out the conspiracy? Its kind of entertaining seeing Patriot fans think the NFL has it out for them when this whole situation clearly hurts the NFL.

No conspiracy to start with. Colts claim an intercepted ball just before halftime was low (and they broke a rule by measuring it). NFL field staff gets involved and think they have something on the Pats. They are unaware that all the balls are losing psi due to the cold weather. They are also unaware that the 2 gauges being used pregame and at halftime aren't calibrated, and one is measuring a half-psi higher than the other. They measure all NE's balls and find them all under 12.5, ranging from 3/10's to about a full psi low. Just before the 2nd half starts, they measure the Colts balls too, but only "have time" to measure 4 of them, which also are all under 12.5 but less so. If they'd measured all 12, the difference between the 2 sets of balls may have been a lot smaller. They are also unaware that the 15-20 minutes in the locker room is warming up the balls, so higher readings would occur toward the end of halftime. All of this was being done by non-scientists with crude gauges in a rushed 20 minutes.

Then, the leak from a league source to Chris Mortenson claiming all NE's balls were a full 2 psi low, and none of Indy's balls were low at all (wrong on both points). The league does nothing to correct that misinformation. A league VP also sends the Patriots a letter listing all the ball measurements, which the Wells shows were the wrong measurements. In hindsight, it does start to sound like a conspiracy at this point, but the leak, the letter, and the actual measurements are all facts, not my opinion. Hard to explain what the league office was up to with these lies and distortions. I don't think Goodell was intimately involved, but their are a lot of ex-Jets employees in that office who absolutely despise the Patriots.

Then the Wells "investigation". Read PFT/Mike Florio, who's a lawyer, and the way he sees how the investigation got off track and reached a wrong conclusion. The texts made Wells believe the Pats did something, so he then starts to make a case against NE by selectively choosing which facts or statements to use or ignore, creating a very biased result. He could only conclude "more probably than not", and even admits that there are no hard facts.

Goodell paid millions for this report and can't run from it, no matter how flawed. But the punishment is insanely over the top, which again raises questions about the league's fairness, consistency, and integrity.

Not even going to answer all of this because theres no point: you see what you want to see. I will give only the most interesting example of that. You tell me to read Florio (which I have). This assumes you have. But Florio didnt conclude what you conclude, and you harp on the phrase "more probable than not" when Florio explained why that particular phrasing was used. "More probable than not" is "preponderance of the evidence", i.e., the legal weight needed in a civil law suit.

Anyway, back in February you already clearly displayed your irrationality towards anything Pats related so will let this drop. I do love how you claim no conspiracy but then outline a conspiracy. lol.

 

[vonstout]

What perjury? They didn't do anything to lie about. That's the point.

In your example, if there's no body and nobody's missing, then you can have all the circumstantial evidence you want - a weapon, a witness, a story, fingerprints, whatever. There's nobody dead or missing so there's no case.

So, why arent they suing for being discharged without cause?

Im a pretty passionate guy about some things, but Ive never been able to totally lose touch with objectivity as much as you have.

What is it you think the Pats are being punished for then? Can you spell out the conspiracy? Its kind of entertaining seeing Patriot fans think the NFL has it out for them when this whole situation clearly hurts the NFL.

No conspiracy to start with. Colts claim an intercepted ball just before halftime was low (and they broke a rule by measuring it). NFL field staff gets involved and think they have something on the Pats. They are unaware that all the balls are losing psi due to the cold weather. They are also unaware that the 2 gauges being used pregame and at halftime aren't calibrated, and one is measuring a half-psi higher than the other. They measure all NE's balls and find them all under 12.5, ranging from 3/10's to about a full psi low. Just before the 2nd half starts, they measure the Colts balls too, but only "have time" to measure 4 of them, which also are all under 12.5 but less so. If they'd measured all 12, the difference between the 2 sets of balls may have been a lot smaller. They are also unaware that the 15-20 minutes in the locker room is warming up the balls, so higher readings would occur toward the end of halftime. All of this was being done by non-scientists with crude gauges in a rushed 20 minutes.

Then, the leak from a league source to Chris Mortenson claiming all NE's balls were a full 2 psi low, and none of Indy's balls were low at all (wrong on both points). The league does nothing to correct that misinformation. A league VP also sends the Patriots a letter listing all the ball measurements, which the Wells shows were the wrong measurements. In hindsight, it does start to sound like a conspiracy at this point, but the leak, the letter, and the actual measurements are all facts, not my opinion. Hard to explain what the league office was up to with these lies and distortions. I don't think Goodell was intimately involved, but their are a lot of ex-Jets employees in that office who absolutely despise the Patriots.

Then the Wells "investigation". Read PFT/Mike Florio, who's a lawyer, and the way he sees how the investigation got off track and reached a wrong conclusion. The texts made Wells believe the Pats did something, so he then starts to make a case against NE by selectively choosing which facts or statements to use or ignore, creating a very biased result. He could only conclude "more probably than not", and even admits that there are no hard facts.

Goodell paid millions for this report and can't run from it, no matter how flawed. But the punishment is insanely over the top, which again raises questions about the league's fairness, consistency, and integrity.

I'm curious. You are stating a lot of things as fact. Were you there? I question anything I read on the internet. You seem to be able to determine fact and fiction on all the articles that are out there and continue to believe nothing was done to the balls. Everything you and other Pat's fans throw out for explanations to why the balls were potentially low is laughable. Here are the things that condemn your team the most IMO:

1. Belicheat threw Brady under the bus in the first interview before the superbowl
2. If you aren't a Pat's fan, everyone who watched Brady in his first interview didn't believe his statements. I know this is subjective, but he looked like he was deflecting and nobody believed him across the country.
3. The turnover rate for the Pat's changed so drastically after the rule change, it's unbelievable. After they adjust the football rules this year, which will happen, if the Pat's TO rate increases back into the range of the other teams, that would be enough to penalize them even more IMO.
4. Is the Wells report error proof. No. Are the explanations from NE plausible. Hell no.
5. Do the Pat's have cheating in their history? Do other teams think the Pat's have been cheating for years? Yes to both accounts.
6. Do fans like you create even more reason to dislike the Pat's? Yes. We get tired of hearing "the league is out to get us" and "it's all jealousy and hatred for the greatest team in the world".

 

[50yrpatsfan]

What perjury? They didn't do anything to lie about. That's the point.

In your example, if there's no body and nobody's missing, then you can have all the circumstantial evidence you want - a weapon, a witness, a story, fingerprints, whatever. There's nobody dead or missing so there's no case.

So, why arent they suing for being discharged without cause?

Im a pretty passionate guy about some things, but Ive never been able to totally lose touch with objectivity as much as you have.

What is it you think the Pats are being punished for then? Can you spell out the conspiracy? Its kind of entertaining seeing Patriot fans think the NFL has it out for them when this whole situation clearly hurts the NFL.

No conspiracy to start with. Colts claim an intercepted ball just before halftime was low (and they broke a rule by measuring it). NFL field staff gets involved and think they have something on the Pats. They are unaware that all the balls are losing psi due to the cold weather. They are also unaware that the 2 gauges being used pregame and at halftime aren't calibrated, and one is measuring a half-psi higher than the other. They measure all NE's balls and find them all under 12.5, ranging from 3/10's to about a full psi low. Just before the 2nd half starts, they measure the Colts balls too, but only "have time" to measure 4 of them, which also are all under 12.5 but less so. If they'd measured all 12, the difference between the 2 sets of balls may have been a lot smaller. They are also unaware that the 15-20 minutes in the locker room is warming up the balls, so higher readings would occur toward the end of halftime. All of this was being done by non-scientists with crude gauges in a rushed 20 minutes.

Then, the leak from a league source to Chris Mortenson claiming all NE's balls were a full 2 psi low, and none of Indy's balls were low at all (wrong on both points). The league does nothing to correct that misinformation. A league VP also sends the Patriots a letter listing all the ball measurements, which the Wells shows were the wrong measurements. In hindsight, it does start to sound like a conspiracy at this point, but the leak, the letter, and the actual measurements are all facts, not my opinion. Hard to explain what the league office was up to with these lies and distortions. I don't think Goodell was intimately involved, but their are a lot of ex-Jets employees in that office who absolutely despise the Patriots.

Then the Wells "investigation". Read PFT/Mike Florio, who's a lawyer, and the way he sees how the investigation got off track and reached a wrong conclusion. The texts made Wells believe the Pats did something, so he then starts to make a case against NE by selectively choosing which facts or statements to use or ignore, creating a very biased result. He could only conclude "more probably than not", and even admits that there are no hard facts.

Goodell paid millions for this report and can't run from it, no matter how flawed. But the punishment is insanely over the top, which again raises questions about the league's fairness, consistency, and integrity.

Not even going to answer all of this because theres no point: you see what you want to see. I will give only the most interesting example of that. You tell me to read Florio (which I have). This assumes you have. But Florio didnt conclude what you conclude, and you harp on the phrase "more probable than not" when Florio explained why that particular phrasing was used. "More probable than not" is "preponderance of the evidence", i.e., the legal weight needed in a civil law suit.

Anyway, back in February you already clearly displayed your irrationality towards anything Pats related so will let this drop. I do love how you claim no conspiracy but then outline a conspiracy. lol.

Here's the Florio article I'm referring to: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... of-justic/
This is where he discusses how the system is broken and how Wells got off the tracks.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

What perjury? They didn't do anything to lie about. That's the point.

In your example, if there's no body and nobody's missing, then you can have all the circumstantial evidence you want - a weapon, a witness, a story, fingerprints, whatever. There's nobody dead or missing so there's no case.

So, why arent they suing for being discharged without cause?

Im a pretty passionate guy about some things, but Ive never been able to totally lose touch with objectivity as much as you have.

What is it you think the Pats are being punished for then? Can you spell out the conspiracy? Its kind of entertaining seeing Patriot fans think the NFL has it out for them when this whole situation clearly hurts the NFL.

No conspiracy to start with. Colts claim an intercepted ball just before halftime was low (and they broke a rule by measuring it). NFL field staff gets involved and think they have something on the Pats. They are unaware that all the balls are losing psi due to the cold weather. They are also unaware that the 2 gauges being used pregame and at halftime aren't calibrated, and one is measuring a half-psi higher than the other. They measure all NE's balls and find them all under 12.5, ranging from 3/10's to about a full psi low. Just before the 2nd half starts, they measure the Colts balls too, but only "have time" to measure 4 of them, which also are all under 12.5 but less so. If they'd measured all 12, the difference between the 2 sets of balls may have been a lot smaller. They are also unaware that the 15-20 minutes in the locker room is warming up the balls, so higher readings would occur toward the end of halftime. All of this was being done by non-scientists with crude gauges in a rushed 20 minutes.

Then, the leak from a league source to Chris Mortenson claiming all NE's balls were a full 2 psi low, and none of Indy's balls were low at all (wrong on both points). The league does nothing to correct that misinformation. A league VP also sends the Patriots a letter listing all the ball measurements, which the Wells shows were the wrong measurements. In hindsight, it does start to sound like a conspiracy at this point, but the leak, the letter, and the actual measurements are all facts, not my opinion. Hard to explain what the league office was up to with these lies and distortions. I don't think Goodell was intimately involved, but their are a lot of ex-Jets employees in that office who absolutely despise the Patriots.

Then the Wells "investigation". Read PFT/Mike Florio, who's a lawyer, and the way he sees how the investigation got off track and reached a wrong conclusion. The texts made Wells believe the Pats did something, so he then starts to make a case against NE by selectively choosing which facts or statements to use or ignore, creating a very biased result. He could only conclude "more probably than not", and even admits that there are no hard facts.

Goodell paid millions for this report and can't run from it, no matter how flawed. But the punishment is insanely over the top, which again raises questions about the league's fairness, consistency, and integrity.

I'm curious. You are stating a lot of things as fact. Were you there? I question anything I read on the internet. You seem to be able to determine fact and fiction on all the articles that are out there and continue to believe nothing was done to the balls. Everything you and other Pat's fans throw out for explanations to why the balls were potentially low is laughable. Here are the things that condemn your team the most IMO:

1. Belicheat threw Brady under the bus in the first interview before the superbowl
2. If you aren't a Pat's fan, everyone who watched Brady in his first interview didn't believe his statements. I know this is subjective, but he looked like he was deflecting and nobody believed him across the country.
3. The turnover rate for the Pat's changed so drastically after the rule change, it's unbelievable. After they adjust the football rules this year, which will happen, if the Pat's TO rate increases back into the range of the other teams, that would be enough to penalize them even more IMO.
4. Is the Wells report error proof. No. Are the explanations from NE plausible. Hell no.
5. Do the Pat's have cheating in their history? Do other teams think the Pat's have been cheating for years? Yes to both accounts.
6. Do fans like you create even more reason to dislike the Pat's? Yes. We get tired of hearing "the league is out to get us" and "it's all jealousy and hatred for the greatest team in the world".

All the things I stated about the measuring, gauges, and the leaks/lies are all documented facts. The part about a conspiracy is a question, not a fact.

Belichick was right to stay away from this, and the Wells report backs him up. He had nothing to do with it, though in his great Mona Lisa DeVito press conference he talks about his experiments after the fact, which the Wells report shows were accurate.

Brady did a terrible job in his press conference. He's not a fighter in those situations, he assumes he can win everyone over with his charm and honest answers to everything. He'd have been way better off acting like Bill Parcells.

The Patriots fumble rate is no better or worse than many teams. Stories to the contrary are false. They have a good record on this, but have rarely led the league in this stat - in fact I'm not sure they ever have.

Pats have 1 blemish on their record - Spygate, which was about where you could legally set up your cams. Pats filmed from the sideline, and were supposed to stay in some other area. They never hid anything about what they were doing, before or after they were stopped, and always felt the rulebook was on their side - which it was, but Goodell ignored the poor wording of the rule in handing down a punishment. Still, Belichick should have checked with the league about his reading of the rule.

The NFL is not out to get NE, they'll get whomever they can - e.g., the Saints. They are just incompetent and lack judgment.

 

[Popeyejones]

Well, you're talking as if someone in the NFL office has judgment, which is unfortunately not the case. Once this runaway train got loose and started careening all over the place, there was nobody at the top to say Whoa!

I agree it didn't start out as a Goodell plot to get the Patriots, but a complex investigation requires someone overseeing it who's not a half-wit and can keep it on a path of sanity. There's no checks and balances on Park Avenue. In a court, there would be a judge who'd say to Wells, what about this, what about that, I'm not going to allow this etc. Wells played the role of prosecutor, not judge.

Punishment in the NFL is in direct proportion to the amount of negative press the crime generated, not the crime itself.

It has been this way for all of our lifetimes. It is nothing interesting or new. Pats fans who've convinced themselves that the punishment is anything more than their turn as the whack-a-mole, or who have sat by and silently watched as it happened to everyone else and are now up in arms because it too happened to their team, don't get much sympathy from me.

As for the actual "crime", the whole thing is ridiculously overblown, but that doesn't mean that feigning stupidity to the metrics by which punishment has always been doled out in the NFL is that cute, either.

Basically, I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but to take what you're saying that seriously I think someone has to feign a ridiculously high level of naivete to how this whole shell game has forever worked. Instead IMO, if we're actually being straight with each other, neither you nor I are as naive as you're puporting to be in this post.

 

[RichNhansom]

This is awesome. I love this 50yrpatfan guy. He is either not a pats fan at all just trying to make pats fans look delusional or well,he is delusional.

One thing certain, every letter he types does more damage than good.

Let's keep him, he will keep this debate fresh in our minds and force details to be remembered.

For the record I think NE got off extremely light due to only reviewing the one game. Its blatantly obvious this has gone on for years and if a real investigation were done Brady would be on a couch for at least a full season sitting right next to Bill the cheat.

Kraft quit probably because Goodell told him they could review the entire time since the rule change and Tom lied because of the massive can of worms that would likely open if he didn't. Do you think he wanted to answer the question of how long it's been going on?

Cell typing so please forgive mistakes.