Brutal honesty

[netskier]

I'm not defending Cable at all, but Bevell is the larger problem. He can call plays that try to compensate for our crappy O-line and almost never does. We've got the most mobile QB in the league, but if someone actually tracked the stats on designed bootlegs, we'd probably be in the bottom quarter of the league in terms of percentage.

It's absurd...and so frustrating to watch year, after year, after year, after year.

I agree. Excellent summary.

 

[chris98251]

What is Brutal Honesty is nor OC and O Line coach want to re invent the wheel every off season, every time we play our musical Chairs game it sets us back at the start of the season, we start out slow and struggle players get dinged and hurt etc. Whether i's method, technique planning or all the above it creates frustration for everyone whether they say it or not. Turnover is inevitable, but not the whole sale rotation player movement we seem to have everywhere every year.

 

[semiahmoo]

It's like someone warned this would happen last season... :|

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

People are comical.....we were robbed on the road, because the league didn't want GB to potentially go 0-2 (they are at ATL next week.....the schedule "round robin" assured at least 2 of the 3 teams would have a loss by tne end of week two, by robbing Seattle.

Someone please find me 3 more losses on the schedule....

Arizona lost David Johnson, likely for the year and Carson Palmer is aging.

The Rams have a tough DLine, they will not beat us with Goff at QB

SF is rebuilding....

Houston and the Colts are playing young or inexperienced QB's,,,,

we are at Jacksonville late in the year.

There are 3 potential losses left on the schedule.

At NY Giants (We are off a bye and the Giants OL is as bad as Seattle's is.....

At Dallas on Christmas Eve....

home for Atlanta....(Monday night football)

We should handle Philly at home and Washington at home.

Seattle finishes with the #1 seed if we beat the Giants in late October and Green Bay and ATL aren't winning 13 games, with one of them playing the other next week.

I know the line is bad, but Chris Carson, Prosise, Darboh all offer upside that the offense hasn't had in multiple years....and that's assuming we get little from Eddie Lacy and Rawls.

The defense will dominate these bad QB's and get challenged by Dallas and ATL....maybe Philly...there is no other All Pro QB caliber QB's on our schedule this year.

I believe the NFL knew if Seattle won this game and owned the tiebreaker over GB, with the potential to get the tiebreaker over ATL at home later in the year, the NFC would go through Seattle.

The only way Seattle doesn't win 11 games is if we lose more than 4 Pro Bowl starters on defense....and the depth added on defense is overwhelming right now....Shaq Griffin showed himself to be more than capable.

The OLine fix is to play Pocic and Tobin and replace Glowinski and Rees....I think the most talented line is starting now with upside, but the most aggressive and hardest working line would be Tobin, Joeckel, Britt, Obushi and Pocic....it would be ballsy to go with that 5, but it would be the hardest working 5 on the line I would not get nauseous watching Ifedi, Reed and Glowinski not give 100% effort on every play.

 

[semiahmoo]

GB was the better team. Better coached, better QB, better period.

Our D was the only unit that showed up. Carson ran the rock pretty well. Hope he gets more touches.

We weren't robbed. Bad calls happen. Sometimes they go our way sometimes they don't.

The better team won - Green Bay.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The home team usually wins that game anyway. Just would have been nice to play the game w/out the striped having such an impact. But yes, the Packers were the better team SUNDAY. But time will tell if they are better overall.

 

[Hawks46]

Your offense has the players for uptmepo, but these coaches refuse to do it. that is a problem

They did do it tonight. Are you talking about the entirety of the game? Do you think the Hawks can be the second coming of the Greatest Show on Turf?

They did it twice tonight and guess what we scored and moved the ball, now imagine we did it more oh like HMm 2015

Simply sprinkle it in, in a series say get 10 plays, whats wrong with half of that uptempo? answer nothing again refer to 2015

I agree with everyting Anthony said. Now I need a drink. :irishdrinkers:

Seriously, we don't change anything up. We're easy to game plan. And we don't play to our strengths and weaknesses.

We went uptempo when we HAD to. End of the half and down by 2 scores. And they still couldn't stop it.

Now imagine going uptempo say, the opening possession of the game or 2nd half. Think they'd be looking for it then?

And I'm talking uptempo like getting to the line quickly, then sitting there for 15 seconds. We're not talking about no huddle here.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Your offense has the players for uptmepo, but these coaches refuse to do it. that is a problem

They did do it tonight. Are you talking about the entirety of the game? Do you think the Hawks can be the second coming of the Greatest Show on Turf?

They did it twice tonight and guess what we scored and moved the ball, now imagine we did it more oh like HMm 2015

Simply sprinkle it in, in a series say get 10 plays, whats wrong with half of that uptempo? answer nothing again refer to 2015

I agree with everyting Anthony said. Now I need a drink. :irishdrinkers:

Seriously, we don't change anything up. We're easy to game plan. And we don't play to our strengths and weaknesses.

We went uptempo when we HAD to. End of the half and down by 2 scores. And they still couldn't stop it.

Now imagine going uptempo say, the opening possession of the game or 2nd half. Think they'd be looking for it then?

And I'm talking uptempo like getting to the line quickly, then sitting there for 15 seconds. We're not talking about no huddle here.

I could see that being employed. I think teams will use that "Nitro" package that the Packers brought out against us the first half of the year. They can get dividends by sending just 3 or 4 guys against our line at this point, so why not press the corners and clog up those soft zones in the middle? Once we start providing Russ protection (2.5 seconds baseline) or getting marginal creases for our backs to cut through, then I like your idea as teams will have to make decisions on what part of the field to protect and how much pressure to send. Sporadic uptempos could catch them out of position -- advantage us!

 

[JimmyG]

I was embarrassed for Tom Cable AGAIN. He's the common denominator in all these horrendous lines. Today we started a 3rd rounder at LT, a high 1st at LG, a 2nd at C, a 4th at RG and a 1st at RT. They were far from even being average.

Wow, nice use of colorful language. Did you really just describe Luke Joeckel as a "high 1st" round pick, in an attempt to suggest that he's brimming with talent? That might be the most disingenuous thing I've ever read. That's like the Seahawks signing Ryan Leaf, him (predictably) struggling, and then you saying, "wow, this is inexcusable, Carl Smith and Darrel Bevell have a 2nd overall talent to work with and they still can't make a good player out of him".

The common denominator is the front office. The front office continues to roll the dice. Draft picks are not certainties, they are gambles. Gambles are fine, but they Seahawks with their offensive line are trying to rely on them exclusively. If you want certainty, then pony up and pay for it. They don't do that. They are the lowest paid offensive line in football. We let TJ Lang slip away, we traded away Max Unger, etc... this falls on the front office just as much as it falls on Cable.

Seriously, this isn't rocket science. We have arguably invested less than any other team in our offensive line and... drumroll please... we have arguably worst offensive line in football. That's not bad coaching or bad luck, that's called making your bed and having to sleep in it.

It's interesting how the same scapegoats surface again and again ("Cable sucks!", "Bevell sucks!") but others are beyond reproach (Wilson, Carroll, Schneider, etc rarely given a fair share of criticism) .

 

[mrt144]

I was embarrassed for Tom Cable AGAIN. He's the common denominator in all these horrendous lines. Today we started a 3rd rounder at LT, a high 1st at LG, a 2nd at C, a 4th at RG and a 1st at RT. They were far from even being average.

Wow, nice use of colorful language. Did you really just describe Luke Joeckel as a "high 1st" round pick, in an attempt to suggest that he's brimming with talent? That might be the most disingenuous thing I've ever read. That's like the Seahawks signing Ryan Leaf, him (predictably) struggling, and then you saying, "wow, this is inexcusable, Carl Smith and Darrel Bevell have a 2nd overall talent to work with and they still can't make a good player out of him".

The common denominator is the front office. The front office continues to roll the dice. Draft picks are not certainties, they are gambles. Gambles are fine, but they Seahawks with their offensive line are trying to rely on them exclusively. If you want certainty, then pony up and pay for it. They don't do that. They are the lowest paid offensive line in football. We let TJ Lang slip away, we traded away Max Unger, etc... this falls on the front office just as much as it falls on Cable.

Seriously, this isn't rocket science. We have arguably invested less than any other team in our offensive line and... drumroll please... we have arguably worst offensive line in football. That's not bad coaching or bad luck, that's called making your bed and having to sleep in it.

It's interesting how the same scapegoats surface again and again ("Cable sucks!", "Bevell sucks!") but others are beyond reproach (Wilson, Carroll, Schneider, etc rarely given a fair share of criticism) .

If your car needs a new air filter, do you buy a new car?

I would argue that even if PCJS are ultimately responsible, they actually do a lot of good things as well and thusly are much harder to replace. Cable and Bevell, are scapegoats because they don't bring the same upside that PCJS do as a whole - and yeah, that's the thing that sucks about being an OC and not HC.

 

[tacomahawk]

I was embarrassed for Tom Cable AGAIN. He's the common denominator in all these horrendous lines. Today we started a 3rd rounder at LT, a high 1st at LG, a 2nd at C, a 4th at RG and a 1st at RT. They were far from even being average.

Wow, nice use of colorful language. Did you really just describe Luke Joeckel as a "high 1st" round pick, in an attempt to suggest that he's brimming with talent? That might be the most disingenuous thing I've ever read. That's like the Seahawks signing Ryan Leaf, him (predictably) struggling, and then you saying, "wow, this is inexcusable, Carl Smith and Darrel Bevell have a 2nd overall talent to work with and they still can't make a good player out of him".

The common denominator is the front office. The front office continues to roll the dice. Draft picks are not certainties, they are gambles. Gambles are fine, but they Seahawks with their offensive line are trying to rely on them exclusively. If you want certainty, then pony up and pay for it. They don't do that. They are the lowest paid offensive line in football. We let TJ Lang slip away, we traded away Max Unger, etc... this falls on the front office just as much as it falls on Cable.

Seriously, this isn't rocket science. We have arguably invested less than any other team in our offensive line and... drumroll please... we have arguably worst offensive line in football. That's not bad coaching or bad luck, that's called making your bed and having to sleep in it.

It's interesting how the same scapegoats surface again and again ("Cable sucks!", "Bevell sucks!") but others are beyond reproach (Wilson, Carroll, Schneider, etc rarely given a fair share of criticism) .

There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut? That is really what it comes down to, we have a kick ass defense, and a putrid offensive line. You can't have both, that is not how it works, if you try and split it equally, you get 8-8 or worse. If you have a defense, you hope you score just enough on offense to win. If you have a great offense, you hope you can out score you opponent enough so you defense can hold them for a series or two.

The only player I see on this team that has any worth, and is expendable is Jimmy. We don't use him appropriately, and his blocking is bad. Who is going to give up a starting caliber LT, or a RT for him? This team is who it is, and with a bit more time I believe the offense will gel, and the defense is more than capable of keeping us in games. I truly believe the Refs took 14 points off the board for us in a game most people on this board thought we were going to lose anyway. We only lost by 8 in the end, and again most people thought we would lose by more. I just don't get it, long way to go, I am going to enjoy the ride.

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

We just lost at Lambeau, to probably the other best team in the Nfc, by 8 points in a game where a couple bad calls and/or one overthrown pass to Lockett made the difference.

If we lose at home next week to the hapless 9ers, I'll join you in your gloom and doom.

Until then:
"Relax."

+10


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JimmyG]

There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut? That is really what it comes down to, we have a kick ass defense, and a putrid offensive line. You can't have both, that is not how it works, if you try and split it equally, you get 8-8 or worse. If you have a defense, you hope you score just enough on offense to win. If you have a great offense, you hope you can out score you opponent enough so you defense can hold them for a series or two.

I understand that, and I'm not disputing it. With the way the team is structured, they have to cut corners somewhere. They're doing it on the offensive line. Blaming Cable for that is lazy and intellectually dishonest.

Then again, this is the same board that attributes every single offensive failure to Bevell. Blaming coaches is weak and lazy. Nothing screams "casual analysis" more than scapegoating a coach.

 

[Popeyejones]

We can't even talk about the POSSIBILITY of the Seahawks' Super Bowl window being closed until there's another team in the NFC West that can present even an iota of a challenge to them winning the division.

If you make the playoffs your Super Bowl window is open.

Even after a loss (in an 8 point away game to a top team in their conference) I really don't believe that even the most distraught Seahawks fan sitting closet to the cliff seriously thinks that the Hawks aren't going to win the NFC West.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

People should really step back and look at the history of this team under Carroll. Quite a few slow starts. This isn't something out of the ordinary. When they win by 2 or 3 touchdowns on Sunday, it'll feel a lot better. :irishdrinkers:

 

[cymatica]

There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut?

No one. Keep everyone on the o-line. Get a new o-line coach that better fits the system and teaches proper technique.

 

[Popeyejones]

There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut?

No one. Keep everyone on the o-line. Get a new o-line coach that better fits the system and teaches proper technique.

Outsider perspective here, but coordinators and position coaches make for good scapegoats because they're not the people anyone roots for, and because we as fans don't have a window into what they're doing and not doing, nor do we really have the expertise to evaluate it if we did have a window.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but unless someone can rattle off what the two LBs and three cornerback's tendencies are when in the nickle and pattern matching against an RPO, what that person thinks about their OCs play-calling or what they think about what the position coach is or isn't doing isn't worth a hill of beans.

On my rewatch of the Hawks game from this last week it didn't seem like they were calling the wrong plays or the O-lines real problem was their fundamentals, the players just aren't talented and were getting beat.

It was the same story on my rewatch of the 9ers game: It's not like the scheme is wrong or Zane Beadles just needs to be coached up, he's just not an NFL caliber starting lineman and was getting beaten to a pulp by superior players.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut?

No one. Keep everyone on the o-line. Get a new o-line coach that better fits the system and teaches proper technique.

Outsider perspective here, but coordinators and position coaches make for good scapegoats because they're not the people anyone roots for, and because we as fans don't have a window into what they're doing and not doing, nor do we really have the expertise to evaluate it if we did have a window.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but unless someone can rattle off what the two LBs and three cornerback's tendencies are when in the nickle and pattern matching against an RPO, what that person thinks about their OCs play-calling or what they think about what the position coach is or isn't doing isn't worth a hill of beans.

On my rewatch of the Hawks game from this last week it didn't seem like they were calling the wrong plays or the O-lines real problem was their fundamentals, the players just aren't talented and were getting beat.

It was the same story on my rewatch of the 9ers game: It's not like the scheme is wrong or Zane Beadles just needs to be coached up, he's just not an NFL caliber starting lineman and was getting beaten to a pulp by superior players.

Your logical assessment will fall on deaf ears here Popeye.

But I agree with you, playcalling isn't the issue, this offense can roll when everyone executes, we've seen it.

What I saw Sunday was some of the worst execution by an offense in a long time, from just about everybody. That IMO is on Pete even more than Cable and Bevell.......it's his job to get the players prepared.

 

[mikeak]

I recall seeing plenty of "wrong plays". Even more I see the lack of the right play. Again they are NOT playing to counter their weakness. They are NOT moving the pocket, they are not doing quick passes

They ARE running it up the middle on 2nd and 20...............

 

[cymatica]

There is only so much money to go around, so who on the defense do you want to cut?

No one. Keep everyone on the o-line. Get a new o-line coach that better fits the system and teaches proper technique.

Outsider perspective here, but coordinators and position coaches make for good scapegoats because they're not the people anyone roots for, and because we as fans don't have a window into what they're doing and not doing, nor do we really have the expertise to evaluate it if we did have a window.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but unless someone can rattle off what the two LBs and three cornerback's tendencies are when in the nickle and pattern matching against an RPO, what that person thinks about their OCs play-calling or what they think about what the position coach is or isn't doing isn't worth a hill of beans.

On my rewatch of the Hawks game from this last week it didn't seem like they were calling the wrong plays or the O-lines real problem was their fundamentals, the players just aren't talented and were getting beat.

It was the same story on my rewatch of the 9ers game: It's not like the scheme is wrong or Zane Beadles just needs to be coached up, he's just not an NFL caliber starting lineman and was getting beaten to a pulp by superior players.

Your logical assessment will fall on deaf ears here Popeye.

But I agree with you, playcalling isn't the issue, this offense can roll when everyone executes, we've seen it.

What I saw Sunday was some of the worst execution by an offense in a long time, from just about everybody. That IMO is on Pete even more than Cable and Bevell.......it's his job to get the players prepared.

Nothing falling on deaf ears, I understand completely and sometimes i jump the gun on my reactions. I don't intimately know the game like our coaches. 100% correct there are things I miss.

My opinion on Cable is based on results and what my eyes tell me, not stats or knee jerk reaction. I watch other teams lines and even the bad ones don't look this bad. The line has always been a pass blocking atrocity under Cable, the only good run game was with Lynch and Wilson running a zone read. We didn't ever see great run blocking(okay, occasionally we did), we saw a great rb/qb dual threat and temporary fad(zone read) catch defenses off guard. Once they figured out the zone read, the running game gradually went with it. Ill add it was already inflated with Wilson's yards. Not of that tells me good blocking or line play, tells me we had a good scheme at the time that complimented the weakness. I will definitely credit Bevell for that, the bubble screen-deep fade offense sucks though.

I guess the bottom line is Pete needs to adapt his offense