Cause of Broncos offense struggle identified by John63

toffee

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
10,625
Reaction score
6,783
Location
SoCal Desert
Our John63 aka DeanDC identified the cause of Broncos' offense struggle: Jerry Jeudy and Courtland Sutton. John accused: "Both disappeared for long stretches against the Jets in a 31-21 loss, as Denver’s anemic offense couldn’t get anything going at all in the third quarter and for half of the fourth quarter," He opined that Broncos' quiet 3rd and 4th quarter were the fault of these two receivers.

 

MyrtleHawk

Can I get a hoyyaaa
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
2,179
Reaction score
2,037
I hope he's getting paid very handsomely considering how hard he's working.
 

strohmin

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Messages
1,868
Reaction score
1,013
Maybe the receivers are "trotting" and not running hard because when they're open ME3 doesn't get them the ball anyways. Pretty demoralizing isn't it?
Lol people dont realize how tiring it gets when you have to run extra unpredictable routes after you run your initial route. Then to have all the credit go to the qb for doing basic things that hes being more than payed to do would uninspire any player.
 

cymatica

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
4,393
Reaction score
3,071
Lol people dont realize how tiring it gets when you have to run extra unpredictable routes after you run your initial route. Then to have all the credit go to the qb for doing basic things that hes being more than payed to do would uninspire any player.
Or Payton has overlooked the fact that Pete implemented a scramble offense designed around Wilson, which was practiced every week.
 

Ozzy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
9,298
Reaction score
3,824
Wilson has played pretty well though this year. I get we want to dunk on Wilson and his defenders but he isn't the problem and has been the one lone bright spot for them. 11-2 TD/INT with a 106 rating that is actually really good. We just all ignoring that because we have this weird fascination with hating on him post Seattle? I don't get it.
 

Lagartixa

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 6, 2020
Messages
1,790
Reaction score
3,130
Location
Taboão da Serra, SP, Brazil
Wilson has played pretty well though this year. I get we want to dunk on Wilson and his defenders but he isn't the problem and has been the one lone bright spot for them. 11-2 TD/INT with a 106 rating that is actually really good. We just all ignoring that because we have this weird fascination with hating on him post Seattle? I don't get it.

Passer rating doesn't take into account things like game situation (score, down and distance, field position) or things like sacks, fumbles, and throwing distance. QBR has lots of flaws too, but it does take those things into account. Wilson had a passer rating of over 103 against the Jets, but his QBR was 19.6. When you consider that if he simply took every snap and spiked the ball into the turf, he would have ended up with a QBR of 39, you recognize that while Wilson hasn't been as awful as he was last year, he's still nowhere near justifying his $22M cap hit this year, and "pretty well" is not a very good description of how he's played. Yes, he's currently fourth in the league by passer rating, but he's 23rd by QBR, and who was that fumbling away the game down by just three and with plenty of time to at least get into field-goal range late in the fourth quarter on Sunday?
"Pretty well" compared to last year? Sure, but he was a bottom-three-in-the-league QB last season. That's an awfully low bar. This year, his performance could charitably be described as "nothing special," and when you consider the contract the Broncos gave him, you see why people like me who dislike the Broncos consider it "the gift that keeps on giving."
If I didn't still have loathing in my heart for the Broncos from the Seahawks' days in the AFC West, I would feel for Broncos fans, having to endure a team that has a QB who produces stats that his defenders can cherry-pick to argue that the problems are everyone's fault but his, but that's not winning nearly as much as those fans would expect given their QB's (cherry-picked) numbers. I remember what that's like. I understood the Seahawks' problems from 2016-2021 a lot better as the 2022 season progressed.
There are also things that simple stats can't really capture, like Wilson's continuing inability to read defenses, other than sometimes recognizing when the opposing defense is cover-zero blitzing.
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,705
Reaction score
1,741
Wilson has played pretty well though this year. I get we want to dunk on Wilson and his defenders but he isn't the problem and has been the one lone bright spot for them. 11-2 TD/INT with a 106 rating that is actually really good. We just all ignoring that because we have this weird fascination with hating on him post Seattle? I don't get it.
Wilson is anti-clutch and his QB rating numbers are a mirage. The Broncos are 1-4, and the "1" win happened 100% from the Broncos D, scoring a TD, getting a 4th down stop, and an INT when it mattered. Wilson finds a way to choke nearly every time it matters. Hero ball does work SOME of the time. It's increasingly hit-and-miss, mostly miss, at crunch time, now that Wilson's elite escapability is but a figment of our imaginations. Methinks you are remembering 2012-2020 prime Russell, when he still had his speed and elusiveness.

In any case, Wilson and the Broncos are 1-4 and he is what his record says he is. - Chuck Knox, paraphrased
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,705
Reaction score
1,741
Passer rating doesn't take into account things like game situation (score, down and distance, field position) or things like sacks, fumbles, and throwing distance. QBR has lots of flaws too, but it does take those things into account. Wilson had a passer rating of over 103 against the Jets, but his QBR was 19.6. When you consider that if he simply took every snap and spiked the ball into the turf, he would have ended up with a QBR of 39, you recognize that while Wilson hasn't been as awful as he was last year, he's still nowhere near justifying his $22M cap hit this year, and "pretty well" is not a very good description of how he's played. Yes, he's currently fourth in the league by passer rating, but he's 23rd by QBR, and who was that fumbling away the game down by just three and with plenty of time to at least get into field-goal range late in the fourth quarter on Sunday?
"Pretty well" compared to last year? Sure, but he was a bottom-three-in-the-league QB last season. That's an awfully low bar. This year, his performance could charitably be described as "nothing special," and when you consider the contract the Broncos gave him, you see why people like me who dislike the Broncos consider it "the gift that keeps on giving."
If I didn't still have loathing in my heart for the Broncos from the Seahawks' days in the AFC West, I would feel for Broncos fans, having to endure a team that has a QB who produces stats that his defenders can cherry-pick to argue that the problems are everyone's fault but his, but that's not winning nearly as much as those fans would expect given their QB's (cherry-picked) numbers. I remember what that's like. I understood the Seahawks' problems from 2016-2021 a lot better as the 2022 season progressed.
There are also things that simple stats can't really capture, like Wilson's continuing inability to read defenses, other than sometimes recognizing when the opposing defense is cover-zero blitzing.
Russell got badly outplayed by Jets QB Zach Wilson at every point where it mattered. Zach was THE clutch Wilson in that game, who could've foreseen that? Well, I didn't. I figured both would suck.
QBR of 19.6, now THAT sounds like a 1-4 QB, soon to be a 1-5 QB.
 

Attachments

  • 1697043842904.png
    1697043842904.png
    370 KB · Views: 2

warden

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
2,565
Reaction score
756
You could tell in Wilson’s last season with the Seahawks that his better days were a distant memory. A mobile QB who lost his legs and whose self importance became to great. Fortunately we off loaded just before the market crashed
 

Ozzy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
9,298
Reaction score
3,824
Wilson is anti-clutch and his QB rating numbers are a mirage. The Broncos are 1-4, and the "1" win happened 100% from the Broncos D, scoring a TD, getting a 4th down stop, and an INT when it mattered. Wilson finds a way to choke nearly every time it matters. Hero ball does work SOME of the time. It's increasingly hit-and-miss, mostly miss, at crunch time, now that Wilson's elite escapability is but a figment of our imaginations. Methinks you are remembering 2012-2020 prime Russell, when he still had his speed and elusiveness.

In any case, Wilson and the Broncos are 1-4 and he is what his record says he is. - Chuck Knox, paraphrased
I respectfully disagree. I think that team is a disaster and currently he's probably the least of their problems. He's putting up some good numbers and remember its the first year in a complicated system with Payton as well.

I agree he's not 2012-2020 Wilson who I still say was a top 3 guy during that period and at times even higher but I think he's been pertty decent.

Either way its going to be interesting the rest of the way and people who love him or hate him are going to have some priors confirmed and be able to rub it in lol. Just have a feeling it either falls apart or Wilson has a really good year.
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,705
Reaction score
1,741
You could tell in Wilson’s last season with the Seahawks that his better days were a distant memory. A mobile QB who lost his legs and whose self importance became to great. Fortunately we off loaded just before the market crashed
Still shocked that the Broncos allowed us to fleece them so badly, and then gave him $250M before he'd even played a down for them. Front Office incompetence on steroids. Well, "So long" to the Broncos, and "Thanks for all the Picks", with apologies to Douglas Adams fans. (author of Life, The Universe, and Everything)
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,705
Reaction score
1,741
I respectfully disagree. I think that team is a disaster and currently he's probably the least of their problems. He's putting up some good numbers and remember its the first year in a complicated system with Payton as well.

I agree he's not 2012-2020 Wilson who I still say was a top 3 guy during that period and at times even higher but I think he's been pertty decent.

Either way its going to be interesting the rest of the way and people who love him or hate him are going to have some priors confirmed and be able to rub it in lol. Just have a feeling it either falls apart or Wilson has a really good year.
FYI, I was rooting FOR Russell, especially THAT game, (see Rookie Contest thread), I bet on R. Wilson and *against* Z. Wilson. I lost. I was actually hoping for Russell to have a good season and show us what he's learned about running "real" NFL offenses, based on progressions, timing, and reading defenses, as opposed to the "Russell Wilson" offense. Not actually rooting against him, just not seeing much actual growth. Makes me really appreciate what Bevell and Carroll (and Schotty) did to build a workable offense around Wilson's strengths in those 2012-2020 years.

I wonder if Sean Payton will go back to the "Russell Wilson Offense" or just go with QB2 Jarrett Stidham.
 

hoxrox

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
3,299
Reaction score
1,972
Still shocked that the Broncos allowed us to fleece them so badly, and then gave him $250M before he'd even played a down for them. Front Office incompetence on steroids. Well, "So long" to the Broncos, and "Thanks for all the Picks", with apologies to Douglas Adams fans. (author of Life, The Universe, and Everything)
The Bears and the commanders were willing to give up 3 firsts but those teams were blocked due to the no trade clause. We could have gotten more than what the Broncos gave up. Not complaining though. It was the best trade ever.
 
OP
OP
toffee

toffee

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
10,625
Reaction score
6,783
Location
SoCal Desert
FYI, I was rooting FOR Russell, especially THAT game, (see Rookie Contest thread), I bet on R. Wilson and *against* Z. Wilson. I lost. I was actually hoping for Russell to have a good season and show us what he's learned about running "real" NFL offenses, based on progressions, timing, and reading defenses, as opposed to the "Russell Wilson" offense. Not actually rooting against him, just not seeing much actual growth. Makes me really appreciate what Bevell and Carroll (and Schotty) did to build a workable offense around Wilson's strengths in those 2012-2020 years.

I wonder if Sean Payton will go back to the "Russell Wilson Offense" or just go with QB2 Jarrett Stidham.
When Zach suffered that INT, the stage was set for a classic Russell 4th quarter hero ball.
 

olyfan63

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2012
Messages
5,705
Reaction score
1,741
When Zach suffered that INT, the stage was set for a classic Russell 4th quarter hero ball.
Absolutely! Could anyone even ask for a better script? Shades of Eli marching the 2011 Giants down the field against the Seahawks for a last-second, game-winning touchdown. Then the inevitable, clinching TD was, of course, scored.

By the defense. Almost up there with Matt Hasselbeck's "We want the ball, and we're going to score!" Except Russell didn't call his shot.
 
OP
OP
toffee

toffee

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
10,625
Reaction score
6,783
Location
SoCal Desert
What happened on the sidelines after Wilson's fumble, basically Payton explained some football 101 to Wilson?

 
Top