Cause of Broncos offense struggle identified by John63

[olyfan63]

Here's where you're wrong.

Wilson was never top 3, even if his stats might've suggested it....like leading the league in TD passes, which for him is a misleading stat.....because when you typically lead the league in TD passes, your offense looks like a machine, not disjointed. I think the only time the Seahawks were a real offense under Wilson was 2012 when him and Kap benefitted from what Shanahan was doing with RG3. From 2013, it was never easily sailing for these QBs.

If Wilson was top 3, then Purdy is #1 right now by that very same metric, easily, 100% without fail. Why wouldn't he be?

He certainly had a few top skills, but all they did was mask the QB you see now. And Carroll made sure that Wilson would function at the level he did in Seattle, in a way these other coaches cannot because they're under the impression Wilson could play the position traditionally.

Once Lockett and Metcalf settled in, they allowed Wilson's deep ball to truly shine. But it was never enough when the good defenses in January got to him.

Sometimes it takes the opponent perspective to get another view of reality...
Yes, the read-option was largely copied from what Shanahan Sr. was doing with RGIII. 2012 thru 2014 it was such a key part, especially in crunch time; after that, it seemed the Hawks ran it less.

I think your point, "because they're under the impression Wilson could play the position traditionally" is key, and where Nathaniel Hackett screwed up in coaching Russ with the Broncos. He can't. Robert Saleh made reference to it after the Jets game, "we made him (try to) play (traditional) quarterback." Implied meaning parentheses added by me. But his "Sandlot" skills are (WERE) all-time great, especially with the offense based around them, and the amount of attention and practice devoted to scramble-drill. Also Doug Baldwin was amazing on the scramble drill. Baldwin probably won 3 games for us in that 2013 season with his unbelievable catches from his chemistry with Russell, pre-Lockett.

Wilson's record of success against the 49ers, as best as I can tell, were because SF didn't have Aaron Donald and Robert Quinn (and later other fast pass-rushers like Quinn), who wrecked Russell because Donald wrecked things up the middle and the others could catch Russell from behind. So Russell's sandlot game and the other Hawks strengths, running game and defense, translated to victory more than usual against the 49ers. I don't really have a good explanation for Russell's "excess wins" success against 49ers, you got a better one?

 

[morgulon1]

Yup, Broncos are #10 in points per game scored. I had to look it up to believe it. #10 or not, they have trouble scoring at crunch time, winnin' time.
And dead last in points allowed.

By my calculations, the Broncos are down about 7 or 8 impact players as a result of the Wilson trade + Payton acquisition. The overall roster talent is too thin for the Broncos to be a playoff team this year and probably next year as well. Wilson isn't able to carry them because he's just not that kind of QB anymore, if indeed he ever was. OK, Russell was that QB in the first half of 2015, legit MVP convo, but it didn't last the full season.

Lovely.

Russell apologists will contend he's doing "better" but that's not what Denver was thinking when they gave up their future for the missing piece. Wilson might not be losing games ( well.. except for NY Jets) but Denver didn't hand out 250 MM for a 35 year old ,slow game manager. That's exactly what they have in dangerwich.

 

[BlueTalon]

Fair enough from that perspective. I'm not factoring Payton's schitt talk about Hackett into my overall analysis, but I do agree it gave the Jets extra motivation and focus in this one game. I think Payton was pretty much screwed from the start by the issues of overall roster talent deficiency and having to deal with building an offense totally around Russell's skill set. The biggest fault Hackett had, IMO, was taking WAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY too long to realize that Russell was never going to be good at, nor be truly interested in, running the Aaron Rodgers offense that Hackett wanted to run. .

I actually think this realization set in during the first game. Hackett took a lot of heat for the decision to go for a field goal at the end of the game, but Russ never lobbied for the opportunity like his kicker did. And I think Hackett had seen enough from Russ during the game to realize that the kicker gave him a far better option of winning the game. The look on his face said it all.

 

[strohmin]

Incorrect....
This view presents the games in reverse chronological order, from most recent to least recent. I also made that same mistake the first time I looked at this page.
So it was in fact the 2nd half of 2015 where Russell got hot, starting on 11/22/2015 vs 49ers and continuing from there.

I see, you are correct. My mistake.

 

[toffee]

Lovely.

Russell apologists will contend he's doing "better" but that's not what Denver was thinking when they gave up their future for the missing piece. Wilson might not be losing games ( well.. except for NY Jets) but Denver didn't hand out 250 MM for a 35 year old ,slow game manager. That's exactly what they have in dangerwich.

Wilson certainly hasn't single handedly won games for Broncos, what he has done, unfortunately, has been single handedly made himself and the Broncos the laughingstock. Hard to be a leader with guys willing to go to battle for ya at his current state.

 

[knownone]

Wilson never adapted to teams playing cloud coverages almost exclusively against him. He went from elite to below average because it forced him to read the defense rather than wait for guys to flash open or predetermine throws. That's one of the reasons a few of us were saying Geno was a better option before the trade. Geno could make the basic play and extend drives. Russ, for whatever reason, could/would not.

Russ is still capable of being a starting QB. But the blueprint for his success is less Drew Brees and more Ryan Tannehill. He needs a running game that forces the defense's hand. Otherwise, he'll continue to struggle on a play-to-play basis because his strength was never processing.

 

[JPatera76]

Not Photoshopped... lol Oh man the cameraman can zoomy zoom zoom.. lol


Maybe John63 will say the cameraman was getting pics of the playsheet for KC lol

 

[morgulon1]

Here's where you're wrong.

Wilson was never top 3, even if his stats might've suggested it....like leading the league in TD passes, which for him is a misleading stat.....because when you typically lead the league in TD passes, your offense looks like a machine, not disjointed. I think the only time the Seahawks were a real offense under Wilson was 2012 when him and Kap benefitted from what Shanahan was doing with RG3. From 2013, it was never easily sailing for these QBs.

If Wilson was top 3, then Purdy is #1 right now by that very same metric, easily, 100% without fail. Why wouldn't he be?

He certainly had a few top skills, but all they did was mask the QB you see now. And Carroll made sure that Wilson would function at the level he did in Seattle, in a way these other coaches cannot because they're under the impression Wilson could play the position traditionally.

Once Lockett and Metcalf settled in, they allowed Wilson's deep ball to truly shine. But it was never enough when the good defenses in January got to him.

Interesting take from someone outside looking in.

I have to say I basically agree with everything NINEster said . Even when Seattle was
having a lot of success, the offensive production was real choppy. Tons of 3 and outs.Too many.

This is why I'll always say that 2013 Seahawks could've been more successful with a
traditional QB. They more than likely would of been more successful. Winning covers a multitude of issues and for the most part they were. San Francisco should know that as well as anyone.

I'm closer to being able to admit Purdy is the one

Not Photoshopped... lol Oh man the cameraman can zoomy zoom zoom.. lol
View attachment 61228

Maybe John63 will say the cameraman was getting pics of the playsheet for KC lol

I'm surprised Sean Payton didn't have
"Oh shit" scribbled on his play sheet

 

[Madrid Hawk]

I will never not like the name "Dangerwich".

 

[toffee]

Games by Wilson at his prime was like driving something similar to this one on winding roads, with raised rear and spacer for tires. It would be more exciting then necessary, as the high or lifted center of gravity started to made itself felt. For us, instead of leading by 2 scores into the 4th, we would be behind and need some miracle to win. I had a camaro with bigger rear tire and an inch or two higher rear than the one below, praise the Lord that I am still around.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Not Photoshopped... lol Oh man the cameraman can zoomy zoom zoom.. lol
View attachment 61228

Maybe John63 will say the cameraman was getting pics of the playsheet for KC lol

Don't be mad at Kelce because he pulled Taylor I mean seriously he did an entire reality show and laid out his expectations and proceeded to date a girl from any and every state in the US.

Mostly he just wants a girl that can deal with the NFL while being real with his mother and possibly liking Mahomes and maybe be Brittany's BFF.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Interesting take from someone outside looking in.

I have to say I basically agree with everything NINEster said . Even when Seattle was
having a lot of success, the offensive production was real choppy. Tons of 3 and outs.Too many.

This is why I'll always say that 2013 Seahawks could've been more successful with a
traditional QB. They more than likely would of been more successful. Winning covers a multitude of issues and for the most part they were. San Francisco should know that as well as anyone.

I'm closer to being able to admit Purdy is the one

I'm surprised Sean Payton didn't have
"Oh shit" scribbled on his play sheet

San Francisco definitely knows. And Superbowl windows open and close fast. Use yours wisely 49ers unlike us.

 

[JPatera76]

Don't be mad at Kelce because he pulled Taylor I mean seriously he did an entire reality show and laid out his expectations and proceeded to date a girl from any and every state in the US.

Mostly he just wants a girl that can deal with the NFL while being real with his mother and possibly liking Mahomes and maybe be Brittany's BFF.

I could careless who he's dating. i just prefer the relationship of celebrities and athletes be separate from what I'm watching.
I don't need a highlight reel and camera pan of T Swizzle everything Kelce.... does what he's paid to do. At that point the NFL starts to feel very WWE level-esque.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I could careless who he's dating. i just prefer the relationship of celebrities and athletes be separate from what I'm watching.
I don't need a highlight reel and camera pan of T Swizzle everything Kelce.... does what he's paid to do. At that point the NFL starts to feel very WWE level-esque.

I agree but Taylor has been worldwide famous since she was 17 and never ever a Ciara so buck up and roll with it. Seems to be working very well conspiracy theories aside. Remember I have no dog in this hunt but I love a great romance so sue me

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Anyway back to your scheduled broadcast...I'm thinking this game is a game that proves once and for all whether we are contenders or pretenders. I'm trying something new and hopefully I'm correct and saying contenders.

This game is huge Cincinnati doesn't want to be 1-5 especially with Burrow and Chase healthy but at the same time you don't mess with us at 10am.

 

[JPatera76]

Anyway back to your scheduled broadcast...I'm thinking this game is a game that proves once and for all whether we are contenders or pretenders. I'm trying something new and hopefully I'm correct and saying contenders.

This game is huge Cincinnati doesn't want to be 1-5 especially with Burrow and Chase healthy but at the same time you don't mess with us at 10am.

Wrong thread

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Wrong thread

I'm confused I steered it back to football and off Taylor Swift?

 

[olyfan63]

I'm confused I steered it back to football and off Taylor Swift?

We were expecting Russell and Broncos here in this NFL forum. Cincy upcoming game thread(s) would be in the Seahawks forum.

 

[Cyrus12]

Its important to remember that John63 is a seahawk fan first...russ fan 2nd...