CenturyLink Field is no longer the "Home of the 12th Man."

[253hawk]

:snack:

The butt hurt is strong on this thread. Maybe you'll listen to Seattle Seahawks Superbowl champion Red Bryant.

https://youtu.be/aKujtuukTc8

One element that is misunderstood about the Texas A&M 12th Man is that it's not just football. The 12th Man shows up for Women's Soccer, Baseball, Softball, Equestrian Sports, Basketball, Track & Field, ect.

When the 12th Man starts showing up for Mariners or Sounders games, you're only just beginning to scratch the surface of what the 12th Man means.

Being loud is just the beginning. It's not just being a "fan", it's actually being ready to enter the field of play.

I'm a Seattle Seahawks fan, and I know plenty of other Aggie Seahawks fans; but there's only one true 12th Man, and Red Bryant said it best.

Let's be honest here, no fan is ever going to be allowed to enter the field of play in any sport in this day and age. And if it were truly some hallowed thing, A&M would never have put a dollar amount on it to be used by anyone else.

 

[Msfann]

Nm~

 

[BlueTalon]

If A&M really cared about it, they'd never have put a price on it and let Paul Allen rent it to begin with.

That's not accurate. I remember getting into some insane online arguments with Aggies during the 2005 postseason. They all wanted to stop us from using the term at all in any capacity. The fact that they came to a settlement showed the inherent weakness of their legal position. The settlement really stuck in the craw of Aggies. What made it more insulting to them was the fact that the Seahawks paid a nominal fee to be allowed to use the phrase, instead of getting royalties for everything sold with a 12 on it.

They care. But getting a settlement was the best they could do.

One element that is misunderstood about the Texas A&M 12th Man is that it's not just football. The 12th Man shows up for Women's Soccer, Baseball, Softball, Equestrian Sports, Basketball, Track & Field, ect.

When the 12th Man starts showing up for Mariners or Sounders games, you're only just beginning to scratch the surface of what the 12th Man means.

Being loud is just the beginning. It's not just being a "fan", it's actually being ready to enter the field of play.

I'm a Seattle Seahawks fan, and I know plenty of other Aggie Seahawks fans; but there's only one true 12th Man, and Red Bryant said it best.

You must not be from Seattle. If you were, you would know that the Seattle 12th Man shows up for Sounders games. The rest of professional soccer in the U.S. wishes they could replicate the attendance and game day atmosphere in Seattle.

There is no 12th Man in baseball, softball, basketball, etc. It would be the 10th Man or 6th Man, and you don't hear Aggies talking about that.

"...it's actually being ready to enter the field of play." You can NOT be serious. The supposed readiness to enter the field of play is symbolic, not actual. Even the original 12th Man himself, old Whatzizname, wasn't the 12th man. He was the 18th Man or the 25th Man, or whatever the gameday roster was +1. And it wasn't like he was just some volunteer in the stands who suited up so the team wouldn't get disqualified with another injury, he was a former member of the team. Aggies attribute a lot of legend and mystique to the situation that it doesn't deserve IMO. Unusual and admirable? Sure. Legendary? Not really.

The Seahawks' 12th Man does enter the field of play. It is quantified by the number of false starts and timeouts and delay of game penalties. The on-field influence of Seahawks fans has been profound from the beginning, so much so that the number 12 was retired over 30 years ago. Seattle's 12th Man enters the field of play exactly in the same way and only way A&M's 12th Man can, we're just better at it.

 

[JAGHAWK]

Here's an idea! Anyone who isn't happy with it can go ahead root for another team. :th2thumbs:

So if someone doesn't like it they cant be a fan anymore?

I don't like the change but I'm not mad about it or anything. I gave my opinion and moved on. But telling us we cant be fans anymore is a little silly.

Lol. Settle down there, fella. It's just sarcasm.

I really don't care who does what or who likes what. I just think it's silly to get all worked up over 12th Man vs. 12's.

 

[Msfann]

Here's an idea! Anyone who isn't happy with it can go ahead root for another team. :th2thumbs:

So if someone doesn't like it they cant be a fan anymore?

I don't like the change but I'm not mad about it or anything. I gave my opinion and moved on. But telling us we cant be fans anymore is a little silly.

Lol. Settle down there, fella. It's just sarcasm.

I really don't care who does what or who likes what. I just think it's silly to get all worked up over 12th Man vs. 12's.

I was actually deleting my post when you posted this, i overreacted sorry.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

No doubt, everyone has their own feel on it. Mine is that I don't care at all. I'm a Seahawks Fan, damn proud of it. I don't need to call myself anything like a 12 or 12th Man.

 

[253hawk]

If A&M really cared about it, they'd never have put a price on it and let Paul Allen rent it to begin with.

That's not accurate. I remember getting into some insane online arguments with Aggies during the 2005 postseason. They all wanted to stop us from using the term at all in any capacity. The fact that they came to a settlement showed the inherent weakness of their legal position. The settlement really stuck in the craw of Aggies. What made it more insulting to them was the fact that the Seahawks paid a nominal fee to be allowed to use the phrase, instead of getting royalties for everything sold with a 12 on it.

They care. But getting a settlement was the best they could do.

It's kind of funny then, since they got Baylor, Dartmouth, Iowa, the Green Bay Packers, the Buffalo Bills, the Denver Broncos, the Miami Dolphins, the Washington Redskins, the Indianapolis Colts, and the Chicago Bears to all stop using it by threat of C&D. It doesn't really matter now, though, because it's already kickstarted so much interest and notoriety that it's ingrained into the fan base. Sure, they can stop the team from using it, but the public can run with it as much as they want.

The whole thing is stupid, just like Monster Energy Drink suing that small New England brewery for using 'Vermonster'. All of these large entities getting their panties in a wad because someone else using a generic, everyday word. :roll:

 

[BlueTalon]

If A&M really cared about it, they'd never have put a price on it and let Paul Allen rent it to begin with.

That's not accurate. I remember getting into some insane online arguments with Aggies during the 2005 postseason. They all wanted to stop us from using the term at all in any capacity. The fact that they came to a settlement showed the inherent weakness of their legal position. The settlement really stuck in the craw of Aggies. What made it more insulting to them was the fact that the Seahawks paid a nominal fee to be allowed to use the phrase, instead of getting royalties for everything sold with a 12 on it.

They care. But getting a settlement was the best they could do.

It's kind of funny then, since they got Baylor, Dartmouth, Iowa, the Green Bay Packers, the Buffalo Bills, the Denver Broncos, the Miami Dolphins, the Washington Redskins, the Indianapolis Colts, and the Chicago Bears to all stop using it by threat of C&D. It doesn't really matter now, though, because it's already kickstarted so much interest and notoriety that it's ingrained into the fan base. Sure, they can stop the team from using it, but the public can run with it as much as they want.

Those other teams didn't have the same pre-copyright history of using the term that the Seahawks do.

I do think that if other teams wanted to challenge A&M in court for the right to use "12th Man" now, they'd have a pretty good shot at winning. I remember reading the copyright applications, and they specifically mentioned the copyrights' purpose as regarding collegiate athletic events. Nobody is ever going to confuse an NFL game with a collegiate athletic event.

The whole thing is stupid, just like Monster Energy Drink suing that small New England brewery for using 'Vermonster'. All of these large entities getting their panties in a wad because someone else using a generic, everyday word. :roll:

Agreed.

 

[EthanCW]

If A&M really cared about it, they'd never have put a price on it and let Paul Allen rent it to begin with.

That's not accurate. I remember getting into some insane online arguments with Aggies during the 2005 postseason. They all wanted to stop us from using the term at all in any capacity. The fact that they came to a settlement showed the inherent weakness of their legal position. The settlement really stuck in the craw of Aggies. What made it more insulting to them was the fact that the Seahawks paid a nominal fee to be allowed to use the phrase, instead of getting royalties for everything sold with a 12 on it.

They care. But getting a settlement was the best they could do.

One element that is misunderstood about the Texas A&M 12th Man is that it's not just football. The 12th Man shows up for Women's Soccer, Baseball, Softball, Equestrian Sports, Basketball, Track & Field, ect.

When the 12th Man starts showing up for Mariners or Sounders games, you're only just beginning to scratch the surface of what the 12th Man means.

Being loud is just the beginning. It's not just being a "fan", it's actually being ready to enter the field of play.

I'm a Seattle Seahawks fan, and I know plenty of other Aggie Seahawks fans; but there's only one true 12th Man, and Red Bryant said it best.

You must not be from Seattle. If you were, you would know that the Seattle 12th Man shows up for Sounders games. The rest of professional soccer in the U.S. wishes they could replicate the attendance and game day atmosphere in Seattle.

There is no 12th Man in baseball, softball, basketball, etc. It would be the 10th Man or 6th Man, and you don't hear Aggies talking about that.

"...it's actually being ready to enter the field of play." You can NOT be serious. The supposed readiness to enter the field of play is symbolic, not actual. Even the original 12th Man himself, old Whatzizname, wasn't the 12th man. He was the 18th Man or the 25th Man, or whatever the gameday roster was +1. And it wasn't like he was just some volunteer in the stands who suited up so the team wouldn't get disqualified with another injury, he was a former member of the team. Aggies attribute a lot of legend and mystique to the situation that it doesn't deserve IMO. Unusual and admirable? Sure. Legendary? Not really.

The Seahawks' 12th Man does enter the field of play. It is quantified by the number of false starts and timeouts and delay of game penalties. The on-field influence of Seahawks fans has been profound from the beginning, so much so that the number 12 was retired over 30 years ago. Seattle's 12th Man enters the field of play exactly in the same way and only way A&M's 12th Man can, we're just better at it.

So butt hurt. Just stop hating, and accept that the real 12th Man owns the copyright.

And your statement about "There is no 12th Man in ...." just goes to prove my point. The A&M's 12th Man transcends the sport being played. It is omnipresent in A&M athletics.

 

[DTexHawk]

"...it's actually being ready to enter the field of play." You can NOT be serious. The supposed readiness to enter the field of play is symbolic, not actual. Even the original 12th Man himself, old Whatzizname, wasn't the 12th man. He was the 18th Man or the 25th Man, or whatever the gameday roster was +1. And it wasn't like he was just some volunteer in the stands who suited up so the team wouldn't get disqualified with another injury, he was a former member of the team. Aggies attribute a lot of legend and mystique to the situation that it doesn't deserve IMO. Unusual and admirable? Sure. Legendary? Not really.

Trouble following your argument.

First you say it is "symbolic", not actual.

Then you use the "actual" where he actually suited up and was the only available player standing ready to go in.

http://aggietraditions.tamu.edu/team/12thman.html


In today's NCAA and with exposure to liability it would never happen, but I would bet you that there is a huge number of students with either some college or high school playing experience who would gladly step up if needed at A&M.

 

[Cartire]

So butt hurt. Just stop hating, and accept that the real 12th Man owns the copyright.

And your statement about "There is no 12th Man in ...." just goes to prove my point. The A&M's 12th Man transcends the sport being played. It is omnipresent in A&M athletics.

Ummmm.... what is the University of Minnesota? for 1200 Alex. Ill also take the University of Iowa 3 years later for 2000.

Also, its not copyrighted. Its a trademark.

 

[BlueTalon]

"...it's actually being ready to enter the field of play." You can NOT be serious. The supposed readiness to enter the field of play is symbolic, not actual. Even the original 12th Man himself, old Whatzizname, wasn't the 12th man. He was the 18th Man or the 25th Man, or whatever the gameday roster was +1. And it wasn't like he was just some volunteer in the stands who suited up so the team wouldn't get disqualified with another injury, he was a former member of the team. Aggies attribute a lot of legend and mystique to the situation that it doesn't deserve IMO. Unusual and admirable? Sure. Legendary? Not really.

Trouble following your argument.

First you say it is "symbolic", not actual.

Then you use the "actual" where he actually suited up and was the only available player standing ready to go in.

I was responding to EthanCW, who described the Aggies 12th Man: "Being loud is just the beginning. It's not just being a 'fan', it's actually being ready to enter the field of play."

Whatzizname was actually ready to enter the field of play. Aggies 12th Man in the stands are symbolically ready to enter the field of play.

In today's NCAA and with exposure to liability it would never happen, but I would bet you that there is a huge number of students with either some college or high school playing experience who would gladly step up if needed at A&M.

How is that different than any other college? Or NFL team for that matter?

 

[BlueTalon]

One element that is misunderstood about the Texas A&M 12th Man is that it's not just football. The 12th Man shows up for Women's Soccer, Baseball, Softball, Equestrian Sports, Basketball, Track & Field, ect.

When the 12th Man starts showing up for Mariners or Sounders games, you're only just beginning to scratch the surface of what the 12th Man means.

Being loud is just the beginning. It's not just being a "fan", it's actually being ready to enter the field of play.

I'm a Seattle Seahawks fan, and I know plenty of other Aggie Seahawks fans; but there's only one true 12th Man, and Red Bryant said it best.

You must not be from Seattle. If you were, you would know that the Seattle 12th Man shows up for Sounders games. The rest of professional soccer in the U.S. wishes they could replicate the attendance and game day atmosphere in Seattle.

There is no 12th Man in baseball, softball, basketball, etc. It would be the 10th Man or 6th Man, and you don't hear Aggies talking about that.

"...it's actually being ready to enter the field of play." You can NOT be serious. The supposed readiness to enter the field of play is symbolic, not actual. Even the original 12th Man himself, old Whatzizname, wasn't the 12th man. He was the 18th Man or the 25th Man, or whatever the gameday roster was +1. And it wasn't like he was just some volunteer in the stands who suited up so the team wouldn't get disqualified with another injury, he was a former member of the team. Aggies attribute a lot of legend and mystique to the situation that it doesn't deserve IMO. Unusual and admirable? Sure. Legendary? Not really.

The Seahawks' 12th Man does enter the field of play. It is quantified by the number of false starts and timeouts and delay of game penalties. The on-field influence of Seahawks fans has been profound from the beginning, so much so that the number 12 was retired over 30 years ago. Seattle's 12th Man enters the field of play exactly in the same way and only way A&M's 12th Man can, we're just better at it.

So butt hurt. Just stop hating, and accept that the real 12th Man owns the copyright.

And your statement about "There is no 12th Man in ...." just goes to prove my point. The A&M's 12th Man transcends the sport being played. It is omnipresent in A&M athletics.

A&M owns the trademark, that's a fact. I just don't think it would hold up in court with an impartial judge if an NFL team challenges it. The only reason it got any traction in 2006 was that A&M's legal move to stop the Seahawks from using the term was decided by a judge who was an A&M alum (no conflict of interest there :roll: ).

I'm not butthurt, I am amused. FWIW, I lived in San Angelo, Texas for 10 years, and I loved it there. I just think most Aggies are idiots. You are not doing anything to dissuade me from that assessment.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Go Hawks

 

[DTexHawk]

A&M owns the trademark, that's a fact. I just don't think it would hold up in court with an impartial judge if an NFL team challenges it. The only reason it got any traction in 2006 was that A&M's legal move to stop the Seahawks from using the term was decided by a judge who was an A&M alum (no conflict of interest there :roll: ).

I'm not butthurt, I am amused. FWIW, I lived in San Angelo, Texas for 10 years, and I loved it there. I just think most Aggies are idiots. You are not doing anything to dissuade me from that assessment.

And the richest owner in the league doesn't think it is worth the trouble or he disagrees with you.


So, has the Seahawk organization dissed their fan base?

BTW, I don't think you know most Aggies. :th2thumbs:

 

[HawkAroundTheClock]

So butt hurt. Just stop hating, and accept that the real 12th Man owns the copyright.

You are confusing "butt hurt" with "have no reason to care about A&M or its fans." I know it's fun to say "butt hurt" so I don't want to tell you not to say "butt hurt" but I just don't think there's any "butt hurt" going on here. "Butt hurt" would look more like, "Those Aggies are so mean, I can't believe they won't just let us have it, I mean c'mon, gosh, geez, it's so unfair!" That's more what "butt hurt" sounds like. Those of us without ties to A&M just don't care how Aggies feel about other people using the phrase "The 12th Man," which the Aggies didn't invent anyway.

Even more, "butt hurt" implies that we got screwed. Seahawks fans didn't get screwed. In fact, our ownership is clever enough to evolve the sentiment of The 12th Man, copyright the new version, and carry on without having to think of A&M ever again. So all of us 12s are operating in a butt-hurt-free zone... now with zero "butt-hurt."

 

[EthanCW]

A&M owns the trademark, that's a fact. I just don't think it would hold up in court with an impartial judge if an NFL team challenges it. The only reason it got any traction in 2006 was that A&M's legal move to stop the Seahawks from using the term was decided by a judge who was an A&M alum (no conflict of interest there :roll: ).

I'm not butthurt, I am amused. FWIW, I lived in San Angelo, Texas for 10 years, and I loved it there. I just think most Aggies are idiots. You are not doing anything to dissuade me from that assessment.

The Seahawks' front office believes A&M's case would hold up enough in court to settle. If A&M's case is so weak, why pay anything?

Conversely, in 2006, the trademark wasn't that solid. A&M had an incentive to get a NFL team to agree that the trademark was defensible, and priced the Seahawk's license lower than what any Aggie would say its worth. However, what A&M purchased by agreeing to such a low price was invaluable. It was validation. Now, any Collegiate or NFL team has to justify why they are entitled to the term when the most prominent NFL entity just paid to license it.

Actually, an even better question is:

Why "organically" shift to the term "12s"?

The answer is that the Seahawks felt they were in a vulnerable position, and that A&M was prepared to prohibitively price the license. A&M does not need the money. Just review the A&M stadium renovations, and you'll understand that the any license fee the Seahawks pay would be just a drop in the bucket. Inconsequential.

A&M was playing chess while the Seahawks played checkers.

Also, "I'm not butthurt,..." is the motto of the butt hurt.

 

[hawknation2015]

A&M owns the trademark, that's a fact. I just don't think it would hold up in court with an impartial judge if an NFL team challenges it. The only reason it got any traction in 2006 was that A&M's legal move to stop the Seahawks from using the term was decided by a judge who was an A&M alum (no conflict of interest there :roll: ).

I'm not butthurt, I am amused. FWIW, I lived in San Angelo, Texas for 10 years, and I loved it there. I just think most Aggies are idiots. You are not doing anything to dissuade me from that assessment.

The Seahawks' front office believes A&M's case would hold up enough in court to settle. If A&M's case is so weak, why pay anything?

Conversely, in 2006, the trademark wasn't that solid. A&M had an incentive to get a NFL team to agree that the trademark was defensible, and priced the Seahawk's license lower than what any Aggie would say its worth. However, what A&M purchased by agreeing to such a low price was invaluable. It was validation. Now, any Collegiate or NFL team has to justify why they are entitled to the term when the most prominent NFL entity just paid to license it.

Actually, an even better question is:

Why "organically" shift to the term "12s"?

The answer is that the Seahawks felt they were in a vulnerable position, and that A&M was prepared to prohibitively price the license. A&M does not need the money. Just review the A&M stadium renovations, and you'll understand that the any license fee the Seahawks pay would be just a drop in the bucket. Inconsequential.

A&M was playing chess while the Seahawks played checkers.

Also, "I'm not butthurt,..." is the motto of the butt hurt.

I am butthurt . . . I hope A&M goes 8-5 (or worse) for the next millennia. :th2thumbs:

 

[BlueTalon]

[If A&M's case is so weak, why pay anything?

If A&M's case is so strong, why did they allow the Seahawks to use the term when so many Aggies didn't want anyone else to use it at all?

 

[BlueTalon]

So, has the Seahawk organization dissed their fan base?

Not sure where you get that from.

BTW, I don't think you know most Aggies. :th2thumbs:

Allow me to amplify. I am pretty sure a significant portion of Aggies are not idiots. But IME the majority of Aggies I interact with online are. Exhibit 1 is butthurt boy EthanCW.