Chuck Powell interesting idea - trade Russell

[Uncle Si]

Like I said I should not have taken for granted that you would use common sense and think about tit as it relates to our position. Yes you provided 7 examples off the top of your head most of which are not 2 were not franchise Qbs 2 already had another franchise Qb waiting and those 4 alone do not fit were we are. Like I said common sense. I will no better next time then presume people can use common sense

Yes, common sense at its best.

You knew Tom Brady, the 6th round draft pick, was going to be the Franchise QB after 3 wins? Or Aaron Rodgers who had not started any games in 2 years? And all of those other QBs were traded for 1st round draft picks which indicate their value. The Eagles just traded Sam Bradford... was he not their franchise QB the year before?

I think we know what people can presume from this exchange...

 

[Anthony!]

Gotta build around the Franchise QB IMO. I'd be more willing to trade Sherman and/or Chancellor to get more youth and depth in the defense. And if PC and DB are so hell bent on being this run first team, then trade Graham bring in another RB without the head issues of Michael. And do what it takes to have a good Run Block O-Line

I agree but if you are going to build the oline to run block and as we have seen so far in the last 5 years that means they suck at pass blocking you are not building around the Franchise Qb you are setting him up to get killed. Part of the issue with the oline is while our oline coach is great at building run blocking olines, he sucks at teaching them to pass block. He has never had a noline that was in the top half in pass blocking in his career. Why cant we have both a top 20-15 run and pass blocking oline. We dont need #1 but just top 15 would help. IN the last 5 SBs we are the only team that won and did not have at least a top 20 pass and run blocking oline. That should tell us something

 

[Seymour]

I gave like 7 examples (all off the top of my head. probably more)... and you don't trade a 1st round pick for a guy that would not be your franchise QB. Ryan Leif was the team's franchise QB. He didn't work out......

Ryan Leaf was never a franchise QB. It has nothing to do with draft status or potential.

Here is one article defining them.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/h...uarterbacks-and-where-all-32-starters-fit-in/

 

[Hasselbeck]

If we were going to do that, the time for it would have been right as he was about to get paid.

Its too late now. And I love Watson, and think he can be a special player.. but we KNOW Wilson is a special player.

Quite frankly, we need to just get him some damn help. He has had one of the worst offensive lines in the modern era the last 2 years... and while they are showing some semblance of continuity - they're still pretty damn terrible. He also only has 1 legit stud WR (though Lockett can definitely get there eventually) and a coach that has no idea how to utilize his 6-7 All Pro TE.

 

[Uncle Si]

I gave like 7 examples (all off the top of my head. probably more)... and you don't trade a 1st round pick for a guy that would not be your franchise QB. Ryan Leif was the team's franchise QB. He didn't work out......

Ryan Leaf was never a franchise QB. It has nothing to do with draft status or potential.

Here is one article defining them.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/h...uarterbacks-and-where-all-32-starters-fit-in/

Feel like we are getting hung up on semantics. Leaf wasn't even on my list.

But I'd say he was their "franchise QB" when they brought him on.. No, he did not work out that way. Team's draft their franchise QB all the time. Was Rodgers the Packer's "franchise QB" even though he head never played for them? Here's another definition: a player that the team can build their "franchise" (team) around for the foreseeable future... which is what San Diego was going to do with Leaf. Seems as legit as Jason La Canfora's "7 tiers"

It's immaterial. I would not trade Wilson.

 

[Seahwkgal]

Dumbest idea EVER. I remember when Tavaris Jackson was our starting QB. Tavaris Jackson for goodness sakes! Now an idiot wants to trade our frachise QB. Those are so easy to replace? Rigjht? Idiotic threads lately. :229031_banghead:

 

[Seymour]

I gave like 7 examples (all off the top of my head. probably more)... and you don't trade a 1st round pick for a guy that would not be your franchise QB. Ryan Leif was the team's franchise QB. He didn't work out......

Ryan Leaf was never a franchise QB. It has nothing to do with draft status or potential.

Here is one article defining them.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/h...uarterbacks-and-where-all-32-starters-fit-in/

Feel like we are getting hung up on semantics. Leaf wasn't even on my list.

But I'd say he was their "franchise QB" when they brought him on.. No, he did not work out that way. Team's draft their franchise QB all the time. Was Rodgers the Packer's "franchise QB" even though he head never played for them? Here's another definition: a player that the team can build their "franchise" (team) around for the foreseeable future... which is what San Diego was going to do with Leaf. Seems as legit as Jason La Canfora's "7 tiers"

It's immaterial. I would not trade Wilson.

A "franchise QB" is basically considered an elite QB. That only can be earned once they prove that in the NFL. A franchise's QB is any QB. Big difference. Teams draft a QB in hope they become a franchise QB but it has yet to be proven until they perform to that level.

And yes I agree. You do not trade Wilson who clearly is a franchise QB.

 

[Uncle Si]

A "franchise QB" is basically considered an elite QB. That only can be earned once they prove that in the NFL. A franchise's QB is any QB. Big difference. Teams draft a QB in hope they become the franchise QB but it has yet to be proven until they perform to that level.

And yes I agree. You do not trade Wilson who clearly is a franchise QB.

I disagree (only in context) though.. I think Franchise QB is the player at that position that you build your team around. Teams can do that with drafted (or traded) QBs. I mean the Packers took Rodgers to be their Franchise QB. The Seahawks did not take Wilson to be their Franchise QB..nor did the Patriots take Brady. They evolved into that. Some become the role on the field, other's do not. Is Rivers a franchise QB?

Again, semantics I suppose. Either way, it was harder enough thinking of top tier QBs that were traded in their prime. Much harder to find QBs who were traded and did well (Favre and Montana, and only briefly)

Trading Wilson would be unique in that he is only in his 5th year. I can't think of rational scenario in which it would make sense for the Seahawks and the team trading for him.

 

[Hyak]

If it were up to me I would do it but it would have to worth it. What would be worth It?

From The Browns:
#1
#12
Joe Thomas
Danny Shelton

Browns get Wilson but also have to take:

Darrell Bevell
Jermaine Kearse
Jeremy Lane
Kevin Pierre-Louis
I'll give them our 2017 1st Rounder as well.

Seahawks then flip #1 overall to the Bills for #10, Tyrod Taylor, 2nd Rounder, and 2017 1st Rounder.

Seahawks then drop another 7-10 spots to pick up another 2nd Rounder using the #12 pick.

Draft Gods then appease me with guaranteeing these players in our top100 selections.

1a: RB, Leonard Fournette, LSU
1b: DB, Jabrill Peppers, Mich
1c: OT, Ryan Ramzyck, Wisc
2a: DB, Budda Baker, UW
2b: WR, Juju Smith-Schuster, USC
2c: NB, Jourdan Lewis, Mich
3a: CB, Kevin King, UW


Fournette gives us that big, dominant bruising force to complement with Rawls and Prosise.

Fant can develop behind Thomas for a couple of seasons, Ramzyck takes over the RT spot as a big, nasty road grader with LT potential. Bookends upgraded.

Peppers, Baker, and King become heir apparent to Chancellor, Thomas, and Sherman respectfully. King / Elliot compete at RCB this year, then Lewis/Baker for NCB. Lewis isn't the ideal Seahawks metric but the guy can lock down and make plays. Hes a little guy that has the potential to matchup and erase other little guys and his awareness + ball skills are superb, so don't think he's another Kelly Jennings( so I'm hoping Lewis drops in this deep class because his size) I really wanted Sidney Jones too but Peppers made more sense and adds value as a returner which is needed with Locketts status in doubt.


Juju Smith-Schuster gives the team a very needed tall, strong, big-bodied possession WR on the outside that will upgrade the RZ offense. He will compete with McEvoy and possibly Kasen Williams for the Kearse role.


Danny Shelton gives the Seahawks another young elite run stuffer that will form an immovable wall with Reed for the future. Think of the Williams wall of the past Vikings. Rubin moves into the rotation as a backup at both spots.

So now the Seahawks are deeper at every group with new young players barring QB and LB, we can get LBs in rounds 4-7.

I don't think Tyrod Taylor is the defacto answer, so we give him some competition. Colin Kaepernick is available. We sign him on cheap backup deal for a QB, 5-6 m, and let him compete for a starting opportunity.

So we went from Wilson to a competition of elite athletes at QB with ample starting experience between them, that leaves only one sizeable void and that is OC.

I would go after the guy who has experience with both the new QBs, a guy who has an Oline background and commitment to developing a dominant running game that would mesh well with Cable's schemes and philosophies. Who is sort of a OT/TE specialist coach in his past that can help develop our guys into competent blockers. That guy would be, Greg Roman.

No Russell Wilson but you can't deny that this make over would be awesome all things considering, we get younger and more physical across the board especially in a revamped secondary with guys developing to take over for the future.

And I can't imagine a Seahawks running game with its Oline potential, with Taylor and Kaepernick, with Roman and Cable together, and with a hopefully healthy stable of RBs that features Fournette, Rawls, and Prosise.

Damn, but yeah all that has to happen for me to trade Russell Wilson.

While this obviously was for effect, I was curious how such a scenario would play out cap wise. Right now, the Seahawks have $ 27.861 M in cap space per OTC.

Trading Wilson saves $ 200 K and adds $ 18.6 M in dead money.
Trading Lane saves $ 1.5 M and adds $ 3.75 M in dead money.
Trading Kearse saves $ 366,667 and adds $ 3.667 M in dead money.
Trading KPL saves $ 690 K and adds $ 96,413 in dead money

Net savings = $ 2.756 M

Trading for Taylor assumes that Buffalo exercises his option (or he'd be a FA). Under that scenario, his cap number is his base, which is $ 12 M.
Trading for Thomas assumes his $ 10 M cap number
Trading for Shelton assumes his $ 1.498 M cap number
Signing Kaepernick for $ 6 M per year

Net new cap charges = $ 29.498 M.

And all of those new players in the draft? No cap space for them.

 

[Schadie001]

So, according to Business Insider the Top 5 QB's in NFL history are:

#1 Peyton Manning: 248.7 Million
#2 Eli Manning: 205.8 Mil
#3 Tom Brady: 196.2 Mil
#4 Drew Brees: 181.7 Mil
#5 Philip Rivers: 173.9 Mil
#17 Joe Flacco: 114.8 Mil

Last 5 Superbowl winners:

New England - Brady
Denver- Manning
New England - Brady
Seattle - WIlson
Baltimore - Flacco

This year Wilson comes in at the number #6 highest paid QB in the league making 21.7 Mil, Brady comes in at just over a mil a year behind Wilson at 20.5.

The notion that high paid QB's don't win SB's is nonsense given that 4 out of the last 5 years have been won by QB's who make a ton of money on their given team.

 

[pcbball12]

So, according to Business Insider the Top 5 QB's in NFL history are:

#1 Peyton Manning: 248.7 Million
#2 Eli Manning: 205.8 Mil
#3 Tom Brady: 196.2 Mil
#4 Drew Brees: 181.7 Mil
#5 Philip Rivers: 173.9 Mil
#17 Joe Flacco: 114.8 Mil

Last 5 Superbowl winners:

New England - Brady
Denver- Manning
New England - Brady
Seattle - WIlson
Baltimore - Flacco

This year Wilson comes in at the number #6 highest paid QB in the league making 21.7 Mil, Brady comes in at just over a mil a year behind Wilson at 20.5.

The notion that high paid QB's don't win SB's is nonsense given that 4 out of the last 5 years have been won by QB's who make a ton of money on their given team.

To be fair, both Wilson and Flacco won their SB before they got their contract extension. Also, Brady is severely underpaid. BTW, I do not agree in any way with the OP.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I love Russell but it became pretty obvious this year that Marshawn and the defense stirred the drink. Seems kind of a waste to pay any qb a bunch of money. The more we pass, the worse we get.

What made you think that? The part where we made the playoffs at 10-5-1, or the part where we were three Steve Haushcka misses and a Jermaine Kearse foot away from being the #1 seed?

Wilson is worth 10 wins a year and comes with half an offensive line built-in in the form of his mobility. He's got more years ahead of him than any other star QB. I fail to see the value in getting rid of him at the height of his success.

 

[Seymour]

A "franchise QB" is basically considered an elite QB. That only can be earned once they prove that in the NFL. A franchise's QB is any QB. Big difference. Teams draft a QB in hope they become the franchise QB but it has yet to be proven until they perform to that level.

And yes I agree. You do not trade Wilson who clearly is a franchise QB.

I disagree (only in context) though.. I think Franchise QB is the player at that position that you build your team around. Teams can do that with drafted (or traded) QBs. I mean the Packers took Rodgers to be their Franchise QB. The Seahawks did not take Wilson to be their Franchise QB..nor did the Patriots take Brady. They evolved into that. Some become the role on the field, other's do not. Is Rivers a franchise QB?

Again, semantics I suppose. Either way, it was harder enough thinking of top tier QBs that were traded in their prime. Much harder to find QBs who were traded and did well (Favre and Montana, and only briefly)

Trading Wilson would be unique in that he is only in his 5th year. I can't think of rational scenario in which it would make sense for the Seahawks and the team trading for him.

That makes RG3 and Johnny Manziel franchise QB's then. You don't get to make your own definition for an existing term that has been widely used over many years. It's been accepted as a PROVEN top tier QB only, how ever many there may be in the league.
Sorry, poor definition IMO.
Here is my alternate definition of a franchise QB. A top level QB that you would never consider trading in their prime.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

What precedent has there been for trading an top 5 elite QB in his prime that's worked out? And I'm not talking about head cases or losers like Jeff George or Jay Cutler.

Even if we get a boatload of draft picks, that's no guarantee of ever finding another QB like Russell........then we're back into the 8-8 and 7-9 days of having great players with revolving door of mediocrity at QB.

Hell to the no on this insane idea.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

If it were up to me I would do it but it would have to worth it. What would be worth It?

From The Browns:
#1
#12
Joe Thomas
Danny Shelton

Browns get Wilson but also have to take:

Darrell Bevell
Jermaine Kearse
Jeremy Lane
Kevin Pierre-Louis
I'll give them our 2017 1st Rounder as well.

Seahawks then flip #1 overall to the Bills for #10, Tyrod Taylor, 2nd Rounder, and 2017 1st Rounder.

Seahawks then drop another 7-10 spots to pick up another 2nd Rounder using the #12 pick.

Draft Gods then appease me with guaranteeing these players in our top100 selections.

1a: RB, Leonard Fournette, LSU
1b: DB, Jabrill Peppers, Mich
1c: OT, Ryan Ramzyck, Wisc
2a: DB, Budda Baker, UW
2b: WR, Juju Smith-Schuster, USC
2c: NB, Jourdan Lewis, Mich
3a: CB, Kevin King, UW


Fournette gives us that big, dominant bruising force to complement with Rawls and Prosise.

Fant can develop behind Thomas for a couple of seasons, Ramzyck takes over the RT spot as a big, nasty road grader with LT potential. Bookends upgraded.

Peppers, Baker, and King become heir apparent to Chancellor, Thomas, and Sherman respectfully. King / Elliot compete at RCB this year, then Lewis/Baker for NCB. Lewis isn't the ideal Seahawks metric but the guy can lock down and make plays. Hes a little guy that has the potential to matchup and erase other little guys and his awareness + ball skills are superb, so don't think he's another Kelly Jennings( so I'm hoping Lewis drops in this deep class because his size) I really wanted Sidney Jones too but Peppers made more sense and adds value as a returner which is needed with Locketts status in doubt.


Juju Smith-Schuster gives the team a very needed tall, strong, big-bodied possession WR on the outside that will upgrade the RZ offense. He will compete with McEvoy and possibly Kasen Williams for the Kearse role.


Danny Shelton gives the Seahawks another young elite run stuffer that will form an immovable wall with Reed for the future. Think of the Williams wall of the past Vikings. Rubin moves into the rotation as a backup at both spots.

So now the Seahawks are deeper at every group with new young players barring QB and LB, we can get LBs in rounds 4-7.

I don't think Tyrod Taylor is the defacto answer, so we give him some competition. Colin Kaepernick is available. We sign him on cheap backup deal for a QB, 5-6 m, and let him compete for a starting opportunity.

So we went from Wilson to a competition of elite athletes at QB with ample starting experience between them, that leaves only one sizeable void and that is OC.

I would go after the guy who has experience with both the new QBs, a guy who has an Oline background and commitment to developing a dominant running game that would mesh well with Cable's schemes and philosophies. Who is sort of a OT/TE specialist coach in his past that can help develop our guys into competent blockers. That guy would be, Greg Roman.

No Russell Wilson but you can't deny that this make over would be awesome all things considering, we get younger and more physical across the board especially in a revamped secondary with guys developing to take over for the future.

And I can't imagine a Seahawks running game with its Oline potential, with Taylor and Kaepernick, with Roman and Cable together, and with a hopefully healthy stable of RBs that features Fournette, Rawls, and Prosise.

Damn, but yeah all that has to happen for me to trade Russell Wilson.

While this obviously was for effect, I was curious how such a scenario would play out cap wise. Right now, the Seahawks have $ 27.861 M in cap space per OTC.

Trading Wilson saves $ 200 K and adds $ 18.6 M in dead money.
Trading Lane saves $ 1.5 M and adds $ 3.75 M in dead money.
Trading Kearse saves $ 366,667 and adds $ 3.667 M in dead money.
Trading KPL saves $ 690 K and adds $ 96,413 in dead money

Net savings = $ 2.756 M

Trading for Taylor assumes that Buffalo exercises his option (or he'd be a FA). Under that scenario, his cap number is his base, which is $ 12 M.
Trading for Thomas assumes his $ 10 M cap number
Trading for Shelton assumes his $ 1.498 M cap number
Signing Kaepernick for $ 6 M per year

Net new cap charges = $ 29.498 M.

And all of those new players in the draft? No cap space for them.

Lol, I figured the numbers wouldnt work. Let's not sign Kaepernick, and just go with Taylor and Boykin. Seahawks then rework the deals of Joe Thomas, Taylor, Graham, ET, Kam, Sherman, and Avril ... adding more years lowering thier 2017 base salaries into new signing bonuses guarantees and lower thier 2017 cap hits.... freeing up another 12-15m this year on deals that will surely eat some of that 26m of dead cap we get back in 2018.

Boom sign the draft picks. Extend Britt in the process.

 

[Anthony!]

What precedent has there been for trading an top 5 elite QB in his prime that's worked out? And I'm not talking about head cases or losers like Jeff George or Jay Cutler.

Even if we get a boatload of draft picks, that's no guarantee of ever finding another QB like Russell........then we're back into the 8-8 and 7-9 days of having great players with revolving door of mediocrity at QB.

Hell to the no on this insane idea.

No.. you didn't.

 

[Jimjones0384]

This is seriously, one of the most stupid things I have ever read. I am so glad this came from an idiot radio host, or writer, whatever the dude is, and not from a poster from this site. I hope no one really would think this is a possibility. He needs to be a Seahawk for the entirety of his career.

Edit:. Russell Wilson is a vital piece in changing our lives as fans forever. I am a lifelong fan, and have taken a lot of abuse over it in the past, lol. But after the 05 season, I wondered if we as fans would ever have that feeling of our team winning it all. Because of this dude and others, not only have we had the sweet taste of success, but as long as he is our QB, we have a shot every year.

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

Why is anyone even responding to this thread, it's


Ridiculous! :roll:

 

[Seymour]

Why is anyone even responding to this thread, it's


Ridiculous! :roll:

Check your calendar. It's make up topic season.

 

[Silver Hawk]

What precedent has there been for trading an top 5 elite QB in his prime that's worked out? And I'm not talking about head cases or losers like Jeff George or Jay Cutler.

Even if we get a boatload of draft picks, that's no guarantee of ever finding another QB like Russell........then we're back into the 8-8 and 7-9 days of having great players with revolving door of mediocrity at QB.

Hell to the no on this insane idea.

Agreed I said the same thing but expected some common sense to prevail but alas none was to be found, instead I got 2 teams that already had the QBs, some trying to pass Bledsoe, Cutler and George as a franchise QB.

Additionally, IIRC, Palmer was only traded due to the soured relationship with Mike Brown, not due to some grand plan by the Bengals to extract value and get better in some other area.