Clowney vs Frank Clark

[Hollandhawk]

It was awesome to see how far he got into carapollios head. Dude looked scared. He pretty much shut down that Niners offense. I mean, a lot of great plays all over last night for sure but clowney singlehandedly wrecked that offense. Just threw off their whole plan.

He looked like he did in college. That was phenomenal. He had a better game than Bosa and I NEVER saw that coming.

Work noting Shaq had a fantastic game as well.

Meanwhile Sherman was completely invisible and getting worked by our nobody receivers.

Makes me smile just thinking about it.

I never liked Sherman. Yeah is good but overrated IMO. Dudes got a big mouth very big. I really think he benefited from Earl And Kam.

Sherman was incredible at his peak. They wouldn’t even throw his direction. I remember a game against GB where Rodgers didn’t throw his direction once. Sherman was a shutdown corner for a few years.

 

[RiverDog]

Sherman was incredible at his peak. They wouldn’t even throw his direction. I remember a game against GB where Rodgers didn’t throw his direction once. Sherman was a shutdown corner for a few years.

Yup, I remember that game. Rodgers had 40+ attempts but none in Sherm's direction, then after the game, wouldn't admit that he was avoiding him. He was the best cornerback in the league for 3-4 years.

Sherman changed in the last couple of years he was with us. He was a lot moodier, called out teammates, etc. Once he injured his Achilles, his antics became less tolerable so we cut bait. I agreed with the decision.

To the OP, even though Clowney has fewer sacks than Clark had, he's a lot more disruptive than Clark ever was. If there's a defensive player within our grasp that we can afford to sign to a long term deal, it's Clowney. At 26, he's at the peak of his career and can be expected to maintain this level of play for another 3-4 years.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Sure Frank Clark got to the QB. but other than that he wasn't a big factor. How many of those sacks came on critical downs vs garbage time? You don't really know by just looking at sacks.

Actually I remember quite a few coming in crucial moments. He struck me as a Bruce Irvin plus - didn't have the pure numbers behind him, but had a habit of closing games here and there. I don't have the numbers in front of me, though.

What would you rather spend the money on then a great DE?

This - combo of great player and cornerstone position. LB? WR? RB? Probably not. But defensive end? There's only one position MORE worth the money if he attains greatness, than defensive end. Gotta keep him.

 

[mistaowen]

Sure Frank Clark got to the QB. but other than that he wasn't a big factor. How many of those sacks came on critical downs vs garbage time? You don't really know by just looking at sacks.

Actually I remember quite a few coming in crucial moments. He struck me as a Bruce Irvin plus - didn't have the pure numbers behind him, but had a habit of closing games here and there. I don't have the numbers in front of me, though.

What would you rather spend the money on then a great DE?

This - combo of great player and cornerstone position. LB? WR? RB? Probably not. But defensive end? There's only one position MORE worth the money if he attains greatness, than defensive end. Gotta keep him.

Didn't Frank get a big percentage of his sacks and pressures in the Oakland game? Like a 3-4 sack game? He was a solid player but not worth the money someone like Clowney gets which is what the Chiefs gave him. He's actually been a negative for them this year when he cost a lot to get.

Clowney is all around a superstar, 26 years old, and has accounted for something like 40% of the pressures this year. You throw big money at a guy like him who is definitely revived playing in Seattle.

 

[knownone]

Clowney is the more disruptive pass rusher and a better all around player. Frank is a better pure pass rusher.

I mentioned this when the trade was made, Frank is not worth more than 16M/year. Clowney, on the other hand, can give you 95% of what Khalil Mack gives you, so he is probably worth 20M+/year.

 

[Threedee]

Clooney only hits guys in uniform, so, that's an upgrade.

 

[tersal]

I was never big on Clark, and didn’t flinch once we let him go. Clark padded his stats against bad teams. Clowney is far and away better, and I felt that way before last night.

People think rushing the passer is just straight forward, but as Carroll said Clowney is starting to pick his spots in this scheme

Why the hate on Clark he was a great Seahawk played hard and produced. Prior to the 49er game I was not sure if Clowney was better, however I never saw Clark dominate like that. More strong performances will get Clowney paid more than the $20,800,000.00 that Clark deservedly received. Remember the Hawks chose to trade Clark he wanted to stay. To my knowledge he has not spoken ill of the team.

 

[DomeHawk]

Typical .NET overreaction posts based on one game.

JC is a very good player but it seems only a couple of games ago everyone was ragging on him.

 

[JGreen79]

JC's impact has been very noticable even before the 49er game. Since the majority only like results that lead to numbers, here's some numbers.

Passer rating while on the field: 80.3
Passer rating while off the field: 110.1

Pressure rate while on the field: 26%
Pressure rate while off the field: 16.9%

Completion % while on the field: 61.1%
Completion % while off the field: 70.9%

INT while on the field: 7
INT while off the field: 1

Link

 

[hgwellz12]

JC's impact has been very noticable even before the 49er game. Since the majority only like results that lead to numbers, here's some numbers.

Passer rating while on the field: 80.3
Passer rating while off the field: 110.1

Pressure rate while on the field: 26%
Pressure rate while off the field: 16.9%

Completion % while on the field: 61.1%
Completion % while off the field: 70.9%

INT while on the field: 7
INT while off the field: 1

Link

Quality shit right here! :irishdrinkers:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, we should be very happy we have Clowney. And I'm sure the Chiefs are happy to have Clark. Even though he isn't worth that contract imo. Wouldn't have been worth it here either.
No real need to dwell on former players.

 

[Subzero717]

Im not going to compare the 2 but IMO no DE is worth 20 mill. Look at the top 10 highest paid DEs and very few are on elite defenses and only half are on their original teams. I pay a shut down CB top dollar before a DE. Pass rush can come in many different ways.

 

[Mad Dog]

Im not going to compare the 2 but IMO no DE is worth 20 mill. Look at the top 10 highest paid DEs and very few are on elite defenses and only half are on their original teams. I pay a shut down CB top dollar before a DE. Pass rush can come in many different ways.

I disagree. With the current rules, DB's can no longer dominate receivers like they used to. The era of "shutdown corners" is gone. You win the passing game battle by getting to the QB and forcing bad throws. Penetrating DT's and great rushing DE/OLB are the cornerstones to passing defense.

I'd pay my DL second most after QB.

 

[quadsas]

Well, we should be very happy we have Clowney. And I'm sure the Chiefs are happy to have Clark. Even though he isn't worth that contract imo. Wouldn't have been worth it here either.
No real need to dwell on former players.

Clark has been mediocre at best this season for the money hes being paid. hes been playing hurt though

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

Interesting Fieldgulls article regarding Clowney. Author skeptical of signing him to big $ even after sf.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/11/20/2 ... wney-49ers

 

[knownone]

Interesting Fieldgulls article regarding Clowney. Author skeptical of signing him to big $ even after sf.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/11/20/2 ... wney-49ers

The author doesn't appear to have a clue of what he's talking about.

 

[Fade]

I need to see how the rest of the year plays out.

A) If he continues to play somewhat like, but not quite like he played against SF, then I would evaluate him at $22.5M APY on the open market.

B) If he explodes and goes on an absolute tear, and he rips it up in the playoffs, then the price is going to go up to $25M APY on the open market.

C) If he goes somewhat quiet, and finishes the year with 7 sacks, and doesn't have a great playoffs, then the price will be $18M-$20M APY on the open market.

D) If he gets injured, then he is signing a prove it contract with incentives, ranging from $14M-20M dollars on the open market.

Forecasting with the information we have now. I would say "A" is most likely.

 

[Subzero717]

Im not going to compare the 2 but IMO no DE is worth 20 mill. Look at the top 10 highest paid DEs and very few are on elite defenses and only half are on their original teams. I pay a shut down CB top dollar before a DE. Pass rush can come in many different ways.

I disagree. With the current rules, DB's can no longer dominate receivers like they used to. The era of "shutdown corners" is gone. You win the passing game battle by getting to the QB and forcing bad throws. Penetrating DT's and great rushing DE/OLB are the cornerstones to passing defense.

I'd pay my DL second most after QB.

Then you wouldnt be paying JC.

The two work in tandom but without coverage...

New England for example lets "edge rushers" walk before paying them insane money. They choose to pay their DBs. At our most succesful run we had three DBs msking the top of theur position $s. You can create pass rush through draft, blitz, cap casualty vets.

 

[Subzero717]

Interesting Fieldgulls article regarding Clowney. Author skeptical of signing him to big $ even after sf.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/11/20/2 ... wney-49ers

The author doesn't appear to have a clue of what he's talking about.

I got to the second paragraph and saw enough. He is spot on. A sack is tangible. Its a negative play.

There is no way to measure the affect of a hurry or a pressure. Quite frankly its a participation ribbon. Good QBs eat pressure. Elite QBs never feel it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Interesting Fieldgulls article regarding Clowney. Author skeptical of signing him to big $ even after sf.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/11/20/2 ... wney-49ers

The author doesn't appear to have a clue of what he's talking about.

I got to the second paragraph and saw enough. He is spot on. A sack is tangible. Its a negative play.

There is no way to measure the affect of a hurry or a pressure. Quite frankly its a participation ribbon. Good QBs eat pressure. Elite QBs never feel it.

I hope many GM's feel as you guys do, and that helps keep the hype for Clowney down in the off season so we can sign him to a moderate long term deal.

It's why Houston chose Watt over Clowney, some don't see the value in disruption and pressure, and only with tangible metrics.

IMO that's shortsighted, and anyone who's watched our games this year can plainly see that Clowney's a game wrecker week in and week out, and I have NO problem paying him 20M a year.......especially since we've literally got no other elite DE's.