Dan Quinn

[knownone]

That's what we've been saying for years. Never going to happen if we keep hiring people like Ken Norton Jr and Hurtt. Running 2-4-5 (two lineman) when people are coming at you with a run heavy formation is dumb. Especially when your linebacker are clearly a weak part of the team. I saw some stupid situational football from Clint Hurtt.

Maybe. But the past doesn't have any say in the future. And I don't think we've had average talent on the front seven since Frank Clark was traded.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Maybe. But the past doesn't have any say in the future. And I don't think we've had average talent on the front seven since Frank Clark was traded.

And whose fault do you think that is? Hurtt was the D-Line coach and Carroll was the guy calling the shots on draft day (Carroll has authority over Schneider). Hurtt failed to coach up decent lineman and he failed upwards.

 

[renofox]

And whose fault do you think that is? Hurtt was the D-Line coach and Carroll was the guy calling the shots on draft day (Carroll has authority over Schneider). Hurtt failed to coach up decent lineman and he failed upwards.

Carroll has been rewarding sub-mediocrity in his coaching staff since he has been HC.

After 5 years of total failure on the D-line he actually promoted the guy responsible to DC.

After 5 years of hearing "we gotta fix the pass rush" while having a semblance of run defense, the Seahawks have "progressed" to the point that they have neither.

How can anybody here believe that PC/CH are actually going to fix the front 7 this off-season?

I don't get it.

 

[Fade]

It's worth noting that the Cowboy's defense is loaded with talent. They are a good blueprint for what Seattle could be next season if they hit on one or two guys in the draft and free agency.

When Quinn took over they were the worst defense in the NFL. He turned it around with 1 draft. They were top 5 in his first season with the Cowboys.

Meanwhile Pete…

 

[knownone]

When Quinn took over they were the worst defense in the NFL. He turned it around with 1 draft. They were top 5 in his first season with the Cowboys.

Meanwhile Pete…

The Cowboy's turnaround also coincides with adding a DPOY-caliber player in Parsons. So, I'd argue my point still stands.

 

[QWERTY]

You guys wanted Quinn after that 28-3 embarrassing loss to the Patriots?

 

[renofox]

The Cowboy's turnaround also coincides with adding a DPOY-caliber player in Parsons. So, I'd argue my point still stands.

Do you think maybe DQ had a hand in choosing and coaching up the defensive players and positional coaches?

Do you think maybe DQ just might be a smidgen better than PC, who has been an utter failure in choosing and coaching up his defensive players and positional coaches?

Defensive talent does not just appear like manna from heaven - it is acquired, coached, and schemed. Something DQ has been successful at, and that (for many years) PC has failed at.

 

[knownone]

Do you think maybe DQ had a hand in choosing and coaching up the defensive players and positional coaches?

Do you think maybe DQ just might be a smidgen better than PC, who has been an utter failure in choosing and coaching up his defensive players and positional coaches?

Defensive talent does not just appear like manna from heaven - it is acquired, coached, and schemed. Something DQ has been successful at, and that (for many years) PC has failed at.

I haven't made any of the arguments you've referenced.

However, I will say that Dan Quinn has a single top-10 defense in six years as a head coach, which includes five bottom-15 finishes, four of which were bottom 20. So, I'll continue to argue that talent is an underrated element of the conversation.

 

[Spin Doctor]

You guys wanted Quinn after that 28-3 embarrassing loss to the Patriots?

I personally don't really want Quinn and I'm not sure where the fascination for him comes from. He wasn't a horrible HC, but he wasn't exactly great either. He was just a middle of the road guy. After Shanahan got his HC gig in San Fran, his teams looked mediocre. I will say this though, I liked how he let Shanahan just do his own thing. He stayed out of his way and focused more on his specialty.

One thing about Quinn is his situational football was garbage. People complain about Carroll in this regard, well Quinn was even worse.

I get it, Quinn has proven time and time again he is an elite defensive coordinator in the NFL. In fact, he may even be the best defensive mind in the game right now. He's very adaptable to the players he's given and he isn't beholden to any one scheme.

In Seattle he ran Pete's defense to perfection. He was probably the most aggressive as far as things like stunts, and blitzes were concerned. He was definitely the best coordinator that we've ever had.

All that being said, being coordinator and being an HC are two very different things. There is reasons why elite coordinators often times flame out as HC. Think guys such as Josh McDaniels and Fangio. They're were both at the cutting edge as coordinator, but why did they fail? The simple truth is they lacked the ability to put together a program and manage big personalities.

X's and O's are not the most important thing as HC. You have to be able to manage many moving pieces to create a cohesive unit. This is what Pete Carroll is great at. He's fantastic from a managerial standpoint, maybe even might be the best in the NFL from this aspect. He knows how to craft a program and get people to buy into his ideas. If there is someone that doesn't, they're just let go ala Percy Harvin. He understands the psychology of his players.

This is the jump people have to make in order to be a successful HC in the NFL. Few have that ability, even some of the greatest minds in the NFL from an X's and O's standpoint.

I'll leave with this -- people have to let go of 2013. It was a great memory for us, and we will always cherish it. If Carroll ever makes it back to the Super Bowl that team will look vastly different from the LOB team that brought us a Super Bowl. People are always putting things on the 2013 timeline "oh we're at 2010 right now" or "it'll just take two years for Carroll to revamp the defense" or "Quinn will bring us back to the glory days".

Sorry, that team is just a memory now and any future success will look very different whether Carroll is leading that team or not. It's like lusting after an old flame.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I haven't made any of the arguments you've referenced.

However, I will say that Dan Quinn has a single top-10 defense in six years as a head coach, which includes five bottom-15 finishes, four of which were bottom 20. So, I'll continue to argue that talent is an underrated element of the conversation.

Talent is definitely important, but we also need to point out that he drastically shifted his philosophy after he became Cowboys DC. He was still running Carroll's system his whole time in Atlanta. Here is an interesting piece on him.

Cowboys DC Dan Quinn tweaked defensive scheme ahead of joining Dallas

Getting fired afforded Dan Quinn time to contemplate his coaching style and scheme without sitting out a hiring cycle. The new DC told the Cowboys' official team website he immersed himself in a self-examination.

www.nfl.com

They tried running the Carroll scheme the year before with failure and so he came and revamped things. They didn't have the talent to do it.

 

[Hawkpower]

I haven't made any of the arguments you've referenced.

However, I will say that Dan Quinn has a single top-10 defense in six years as a head coach, which includes five bottom-15 finishes, four of which were bottom 20. So, I'll continue to argue that talent is an underrated element of the conversation.

It seems to be underrated most heavily/often when people are looking to make a point about Pete

Something I've noticed

 

[GemCity]

No one should take this the wrong way but, Dallas is a more attractive option considering the franchise, market (publicity), and perhaps to some (not necessarily me), the owner.

Of course, I’d be in Seattle all day but….

It didn’t come down to just that though…

 

[balakoth]

No one ever seems to care who is on the field now a days

 

[BASF]

It is an interesting twist of facts when someone simply goes the Cowboys were one of the worst defenses until Dan Quinn came along and turned it all around. The 2017-19 Cowboys were top ten defenses each year. 2020 was an outlier because they lost their best pass rusher and their pro bowl corner in free agency. They also had their leader in Vander Esch injured for most of the year. Not to mention that they brought in Mike Freakin' Nolan to be their defensive coordinator. So, Quinn arrives and brings in an actual generational talent at edge, which helped tremendously. Five more defensive players in the top 115 certainly helped as well.

I am not discounting Dan Quinn's influence. He is a damn good coordinator, but to pretend like the Cowboys were trash without really good pieces with mitigating factors in 2020 is intellectual dishonesty at it's finest.

 

[olyfan63]

It is an interesting twist of facts when someone simply goes the Cowboys were one of the worst defenses until Dan Quinn came along and turned it all around. The 2017-19 Cowboys were top ten defenses each year. 2020 was an outlier because they lost their best pass rusher and their pro bowl corner in free agency. They also had their leader in Vander Esch injured for most of the year. Not to mention that brought in Mike Freakin' Nolan to be their defensive coordinator. So, Quinn arrives and brings in an actual generational talent at edge which helped tremendously. Five more defensive players in the top 115 certainly helped as well.

I am not discounting Dan Quinn's influence. He is a damn good coordinator, but to pretend like the Cowboys were trash without really good pieces with mitigating factors in 2020 is intellectual dishonesty at it's finest.

I could go for "ignorance", but "intellectual dishonesty" seems like an excessively aggressive phrase to use for this.

Someone who quickly looks at the 2020 raw numbers and rankings, could very reasonably conclude Quinn's influence has resulted in a massive improvement in the Dallas D since then. In other words, the idea that "Quinn turned around the Cowboys defense" is typical of what media talking heads feed us these days, a superficial narrative that ignores any and all data points that don't fit the narrative. Sort of like the narrative "Stodgy old Pete Carroll is holding back brilliant creative playmaker Russell Wilson" that Denver bought into. Glad Denver did. I'd call their buying this narrative hook, line and sinker "ignorance" or "laziness" or "glaring lack of due diligence". Whatever Russell was paying his agent and PR team to push this narrative, it was a helluva good investment for him.

 

[olyfan63]

Talent is definitely important, but we also need to point out that he drastically shifted his philosophy after he became Cowboys DC. He was still running Carroll's system his whole time in Atlanta. Here is an interesting piece on him.

Cowboys DC Dan Quinn tweaked defensive scheme ahead of joining Dallas

Getting fired afforded Dan Quinn time to contemplate his coaching style and scheme without sitting out a hiring cycle. The new DC told the Cowboys' official team website he immersed himself in a self-examination.

www.nfl.com

They tried running the Carroll scheme the year before with failure and so he came and revamped things. They didn't have the talent to do it.

Based on that article, it seems Pete is trying to copy Dan Quinn's evolution and success, incorporating 3-4 concepts, but not being as successful.

 

[hoxrox]

If Dan Quinn's defense can stop the 9ers dynamic offense, I'll be impressed. Should be a good game this weekend.

 

[olyfan63]

If Dan Quinn's defense can stop the 9ers dynamic offense, I'll be impressed. Should be a good game this weekend.

Excellent point!! Not only that, it would give Carroll & Co. a *blueprint* for how to deal with that bulldozing 49er offense. Such a blueprint would inform the Hawks draft approach, and maybe change the approach a little. Not to mention steal the parts of the scheme Carroll thinks will transfer.

Off topic slightly, but I really miss Kam and the way he threw aside O-Linemen and smackdown-tackled running backs on toss plays. OK, on-topic, isn't there an "even-bigger" Kam-as-ceiling SS/LB hybrid people are talking about? Anyone got a link to his highlights?

 

[seatownlowdown]

DQ to run a team? no.

DQ to run a defense? give the him the keys and playmakers needed.

 

[m0ng0]

I respectfully disagree with this take. Dan Quinn was in Seattle for only a moment. He came in 2013 to replace Gus Bradley. He took over a defense that was already the NFL's top defense. Why would you think that Quinn was responsible for it? He had no hand in designing it or the personnel. He now presides over a Dallas defense that has some pretty good pieces. He may get another HC gig, and he might do okay, but he's no defensive genius.

Winner!!!!