Disappointed so far

Spin Doctor

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ImTheScientist":2dt1tohx said:
We seemed to be slowly spending our $60mil in cap space or whatever it was on scrubs. I guess Im the type that prefers to buy one or two really nice things versus a ton of trash. Now we are left with hoping we resign Clowney but even if we do how have we improved our Dline? Hope they don't expect different results with the same group.

I certainly hope there is more to this offseason and we can bring in some star power. If you look at the Hawks roster there isn't much to get excited about in terms of true elite talent anymore. Can you imagine where we would be without the best QB in the league? Put just an average guy like Kirk Cousins and we are 8-8 if lucky with the talent we have.
First off like a few other posters said --- the Seahawks I believe had the most players not under contract this season if not that close to it. We had to allocate resources to signing them. Secondly, that 60 million wasn't factoring in the rookie pool. In reality we have less money to spend than would be expected with that money.

With the money left over the Seahawks are prioritizing patching up holes. We bolstered TE depth (a position of need) with Olsen. We then followed that up with offensive lineman and Irvin. While they're not world beaters or "sexy" signings they are solid additions. Olsen still had a decent year last season despite having a few nagging injuries and is immediately better than any TE we have not named Dissley. When healthy he is still a force in the receiving game. I think many here overrate Irvin, but despite my negative attitude in the Irvin thread he is a solid role player and an immediate upgrade over what we had. If we can bring Clowney on for a reasonable price it will be a good offseason.
 

JayhawkMike

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So far this off season has been a big fat failure. Losing good players signing worse players and waiting long enough on Clowney that plan B and C players are gone and we are left with average players or worse if Clowney goes elsewhere.

With a couple of exceptions Seattle has been mediocre at best drafting for years so little hope there.

We are stuck with a barely make the playoffs non super bowl contender team yet again with subpar talent and even worse coaching - a team that doesn’t play to win but only not to lose and usually only for half a game.

It Wilson goes down we are dead.
 

Seanhawk

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JayhawkMike":1ugwixyi said:
It Wilson goes down we are dead.

Duh. That has been the case every year he has been in the league. You think that 2013 team wins it all with T-Jack at the helm?
 

JayhawkMike

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Seanhawk":12a8v4ko said:
JayhawkMike":12a8v4ko said:
It Wilson goes down we are dead.

Duh. That has been the case every year he has been in the league. You think that 2013 team wins it all with T-Jack at the helm?

Dead as in - we don’t have enough talent on either side of the ball to get a backup QB ANY wins. A lot of teams can get their back up QB a handful.
 

KinesProf

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We're also really early into Jody Allen's ownership that we can't be entirely sure what the edict is regarding long-term cash commitments. Maybe why we've seen short contracts to this point.

A franchise is at it's most valuable when the star qb is locked up long -term but not a lot of other big cash commitments.

The mega rich hate uncertain economic times.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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Spin Doctor":x96a3chu said:
ImTheScientist":x96a3chu said:
We seemed to be slowly spending our $60mil in cap space or whatever it was on scrubs. I guess Im the type that prefers to buy one or two really nice things versus a ton of trash. Now we are left with hoping we resign Clowney but even if we do how have we improved our Dline? Hope they don't expect different results with the same group.

I certainly hope there is more to this offseason and we can bring in some star power. If you look at the Hawks roster there isn't much to get excited about in terms of true elite talent anymore. Can you imagine where we would be without the best QB in the league? Put just an average guy like Kirk Cousins and we are 8-8 if lucky with the talent we have.
First off like a few other posters said --- the Seahawks I believe had the most players not under contract this season if not that close to it. We had to allocate resources to signing them. Secondly, that 60 million wasn't factoring in the rookie pool. In reality we have less money to spend than would be expected with that money.

With the money left over the Seahawks are prioritizing patching up holes. We bolstered TE depth (a position of need) with Olsen. We then followed that up with offensive lineman and Irvin. While they're not world beaters or "sexy" signings they are solid additions. Olsen still had a decent year last season despite having a few nagging injuries and is immediately better than any TE we have not named Dissley. When healthy he is still a force in the receiving game. I think many here overrate Irvin, but despite my negative attitude in the Irvin thread he is a solid role player and an immediate upgrade over what we had. If we can bring Clowney on for a reasonable price it will be a good offseason.
Agree all the way around though I'd like to see Clowney or Yannick AND Griffin. A rook EDGE that can actually contribute (looking at you Collier) would be nice too.
 

sutz

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KinesProf":2822ibcm said:
We're also really early into Jody Allen's ownership that we can't be entirely sure what the edict is regarding long-term cash commitments. Maybe why we've seen short contracts to this point.

A franchise is at it's most valuable when the star qb is locked up long -term but not a lot of other big cash commitments.

The mega rich hate uncertain economic times.
I seriously doubt this has anything to do with it. :34853_doh:

It looks to me like Ms Allen is following in Paul's footsteps in not being a 'hands on' owner meddling in day to day affairs. It worked well for Paul and it will work going forward. The fact that our ownership realizes they are not 'football experts' and lets the real experts do the job has been a blessing for the Seahawks.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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sutz":1uheo1th said:
KinesProf":1uheo1th said:
We're also really early into Jody Allen's ownership that we can't be entirely sure what the edict is regarding long-term cash commitments. Maybe why we've seen short contracts to this point.

A franchise is at it's most valuable when the star qb is locked up long -term but not a lot of other big cash commitments.

The mega rich hate uncertain economic times.
I seriously doubt this has anything to do with it. :34853_doh:

It looks to me like Ms Allen is following in Paul's footsteps in not being a 'hands on' owner meddling in day to day affairs. It worked well for Paul and it will work going forward. The fact that our ownership realizes they are not 'football experts' and lets the real experts do the job has been a blessing for the Seahawks.
Dan Snyder does not like your post.
 

FlyingGreg

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Maelstrom787":2w9kd6po said:
FlyingGreg":2w9kd6po said:
I think they have played it fairly smart.

Too many people got suckered into that "60 million" in cap space thing that was thrown around but, (1) it was never that much in true cap space and, (2) we had to refill half the roster, so we were never going to be big spenders in FA, anyways.

When has this front office ever been very aggressive in first wave FA deals?? If anything, their big moves have always been trades. Those could still happen.

Based on the current available space remaining, I would guess they have a contingency to jettison the likes of Britt, Wright (I know, I know), Thompson (who has already been given permission to seek a trade), Hill, etc., if they are able to swing a deal for a front line player.

As it stands right now - without Clowney (and now Q Jeff) and still with Ken Norton as D coord (for some reason), this defense looks to be set up to struggle again. Bruce Irvin will help, but he's a complimentary piece at this point and not an "Alpha". Even if they do get Clowney back, we still need significant upgrades rushing the passer. I sure HOPE that they are not just hoping LJ Collier is going to bust out?

Offensively, Olsen is a great signing. Not bringing back Ifedi is a great move..and getting a guy like Finney is also pretty solid, in case they do move Britt (and I think they should, he is way too expensive (currently our 4th most expensive contract at an $11.4 million cap hit). I still think Josh Gordon will end up back in Seattle if he is reinstated.

My biggest concern, as usual, is the DRAFT. They have proven to be largely clueless with way too many of the picks they have made since 2014-2015. They have hit on a few diamonds, for sure (Lockett, Metcalf, Carson immediately come to mind) but, by and large, have not replenished the loss of so much talent that has left.

Their drafting, recently, has been excellent. 2018 was amazing. 2019 looks to have some good players. Collier has been a major disappointment, but there is some good talent in the rest of the 2019 class.

As of now, the only thing that has me truly disappointed is that Clowney hasn't been signed to a long term deal. Otherwise, Brandon Shell at RT for less than 6m a year is a steal, Finney looks to be our starting center should Britt be cut, Ogbuehi has a lot of potential in Fant's old role with an incentive laden contract that has low base pay, and Irvin significantly helps the pass rush rotation should Clowney be back.

All that BEFORE heading in to the draft, where the front office has been doing great the past 2 years, and we have 3 picks in the top 64.

I'm optimistic. There was a lot of holes to fill going into FA, especially on the lines, and they've done well plugging in some guys at a fantastic value. If Clowney comes back, then I think the team is already improved from where it was.

I respectfully disagree that their recent drafting has been "excellent" or "amazing". That's not even approaching accurate. I will agree it has gotten better the last few drafts.

However, of the 30 players they have selected in the 2017-2018-2019 drafts, I count 5 who have been clear hits (SO FAR): Metcalf, Green, Dickson, Shaquill Griffin, and Moore...and I'm being generous with Griffin and Moore, as both have significant flaws. This is, of course, debatable. There is a large swath of players in the next tier I'd call "have to prove it", then there are the certified disasters, for a variety of reasons, like Jennings (didn't even make our roster the same year he was drafted), McDowell (never played a snap), Darboh and others. I certainly don't expect them to draft 7 Pro Bowlers every year.

But, philosophically, the problem with having a franchise QB eating up roughly 1/5 of your cap is you have to replace the elite talent that leaves with ready to play college players. I don't think any of us would argue their drafting philosophy has been a bit questionable, and they tend to reach and over value players (Penny a classic example and Collier right on track to be the same). I think they do much better after the first few rounds, in general.

However, how many Pro Bowler starters have they drafted since 2015? No, that's not the best barometer of drafting success...but it's hard to argue that garnering Pro Bowl recognition is something that can be done with anything other than pretty good performance on the field.

I think the 2019 draft has a chance to be damn good, especially with Metcalf already exceeding expectations. There is considerable hope for Blair, Barton and Amadi - and I like Homer as a complimentary piece and special teamer. Ursua could be a diamond in the rough. We will see what happens with Collier.

2018 was a pretty good draft. Penny, although drafted too high, has a lot of potential. He was just coming into his own last season. I'm worried about his weight and work out habits, especially coming off a devastating injury, but we'll see. Dissly is a stud with a MAJOR asterisk - he has had two shortened seasons due to terrible injuries, and likely will always be a risk factor. Green has quietly become a pretty good situational pass rusher. Shaquem Griffin looks to be kinda catching on as a pass rusher. Flowers was a major liability last season, but I think he will bounce back. Jones is a good depth piece on the OL.

Of those 2018 picks, I think only Dissly has Pro Bowl potential (outside of our elite punter, of course) - if he stays healthy.
 

AgentDib

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As others have said it's simply too early to have any sort of judgement about this off-season because the most important moves are still TBD, and that's OK on March 22. They are still in the middle of trying to bring Clowney and/or Everson in on good value deals and we have a lot of very important selections to be made in the draft. UDFA and post june 6th FA have also yielded more than one starter for this FO.

This off-season could still range from very disappointing to a huge success depending on how those things turn out. Coming out of the draft we'll have a much better idea of how things are shaping up.
 

hawksfansinceday1

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TreeRon":4mwfpsa1 said:
Bill Barnwell ESPN : Ogbuehi = Joekel
And I believe we paid 7 million or 8 million dollars a year for Joekel. Not paying anywhere near that much for Ogbuehi so Barnwell's point seems idiotic and not worth even considering based on the amount of money being spent on the two players
 

John63

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hawksfansinceday1":2bjesnq2 said:
TreeRon":2bjesnq2 said:
Bill Barnwell ESPN : Ogbuehi = Joekel
And I believe we paid 7 million or 8 million dollars a year for Joekel. Not paying anywhere near that much for Ogbuehi so Barnwell's point seems idiotic and not worth even considering based on the amount of money being spent on the two players


well not really yes we save in money, but we have not improved at all.
 

AlciG

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I think most people around here have a really unrealistic view of what could be gotten with available capspace.

If the team can keep Clowney + add Griffen I'd be very happy with FA.

- add another OL or 2 from the draft
- add WR3 from draft
- add another RB because the injuries of Penny and Carson scare me
 

TreeRon

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The whole point: Did we get significantly better in FA so far? IMO, I don't think so. Are the Cardinals better? How bout the Rams and 49ers? Those are our division rivals and we need to beat those guys.
Of course there is still the draft but given the crap shoot that it is, I don't expect dominant play TY from and O or D linemen we might draft.
 

Sgt. Largent

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TreeRon":3q2p01g8 said:
The whole point: Did we get significantly better in FA so far? IMO, I don't think so. Are the Cardinals better? How bout the Rams and 49ers? Those are our division rivals and we need to beat those guys.
Of course there is still the draft but given the crap shoot that it is, I don't expect dominant play TY from and O or D linemen we might draft.

You don't think adding good O-line depth, re-signing one of our best D-line players and adding Olsen and Irvin makes us better?

We ended the year with Joey Hunt at center, a practice squad TE starting playoff games and some dude named Bryan Mone playing DT.

Pretty sure we're significantly better then we ended the season.
 

Maelstrom787

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John63":1n86frkp said:
hawksfansinceday1":1n86frkp said:
TreeRon":1n86frkp said:
Bill Barnwell ESPN : Ogbuehi = Joekel
And I believe we paid 7 million or 8 million dollars a year for Joekel. Not paying anywhere near that much for Ogbuehi so Barnwell's point seems idiotic and not worth even considering based on the amount of money being spent on the two players


well nto really yes we save in money but we have not inmproved at all.

So then you agree with the statement - this signing is not comparable to the Joeckel signing due to the vastly different compensation involved.

Lol this is a depth signing dude.
 

John63

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TreeRon":1cis2g9h said:
The whole point: Did we get significantly better in FA so far? IMO, I don't think so. Are the Cardinals better? How bout the Rams and 49ers? Those are our division rivals and we need to beat those guys.
Of course there is still the draft but given the crap shoot that it is, I don't expect dominant play TY from and O or D linemen we might draft.


Exactly we have not gotten better while the other sin the West have.
 

John63

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Maelstrom787":1jg1mhl3 said:
John63":1jg1mhl3 said:
hawksfansinceday1":1jg1mhl3 said:
TreeRon":1jg1mhl3 said:
Bill Barnwell ESPN : Ogbuehi = Joekel
And I believe we paid 7 million or 8 million dollars a year for Joekel. Not paying anywhere near that much for Ogbuehi so Barnwell's point seems idiotic and not worth even considering based on the amount of money being spent on the two players


well nto really yes we save in money but we have not inmproved at all.

So then you agree with the statement - this signing is not comparable to the Joeckel signing due to the vastly different compensation involved.

Lol this is a depth signing dude.


well the problem is you don't know if this is a depth signing or not you are assuming and you could be right. However, the other issue is none of the 4 lineman we have signed are anything but average at best and below in pass blocking. So again this has been very disappointing. Barring some big thing happening we are in for another long season, of nothing on offense till they have to and that being Wilson doing his magic, another long season of a defense playing prevent and giving up chunks of yards, and another if we are lucky1 and done in the playoffs. That's assuming this is not the year all the hits, pressures, sacks, and hurries don't get to Wilson, and he goes down.

So agian very very disappointing so far.
 

Maelstrom787

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John63":3jh0up0z said:
Maelstrom787":3jh0up0z said:
John63":3jh0up0z said:
hawksfansinceday1":3jh0up0z said:
And I believe we paid 7 million or 8 million dollars a year for Joekel. Not paying anywhere near that much for Ogbuehi so Barnwell's point seems idiotic and not worth even considering based on the amount of money being spent on the two players


well nto really yes we save in money but we have not inmproved at all.

So then you agree with the statement - this signing is not comparable to the Joeckel signing due to the vastly different compensation involved.

Lol this is a depth signing dude.


well the problem is you don't know if this is a depth signing or not you are assuming and you could be right. However, the other issue is none of the 4 lineman we have signed are anything but average at best and below in pass blocking. So again this has been very disappointing. Barring some big thing happening we are in for another long season, of nothing on offense till they have to and that being Wilson doing his magic, another long season of a defense playing prevent and giving up chunks of yards, and another if we are lucky1 and done in the playoffs. That's assuming this is not the year all the hits, pressures, sacks, and hurries don't get to Wilson, and he goes down.

So agian very very disappointing so far.

I'm assuming this is a depth signing?

Have you seen the compensation? Have you seen the Shell signing? Do you think Ogbuehi is supplanting Duane Brown on the depth chart?

If Ogbuehi wins a legit competition to start then cool, he's improved and we got him for a low salary, but that's highly unlikely.

This IS a depth signing regardless of the result. Sorry that we don't have pro bowler backups coming in at like 3m a year. If that's your expectation, then you're in for a rude awakening no matter what team you follow.

Stop expecting every signing to be for a pro bowl player.

1. The salary cap exists, believe it or not
2. There is only so much talent in the league
3. Rosters include BACKUPS. DEPTH GUYS. CONTINGENCY PLANS FOR YOUR STARTERS. Not every player is an all star pass protector.

This crap gets old when every depth signing has to be lambasted as if the guy is even going to start, dude. We know you're disappointed, why dont you tell us 3 more times in the next reply
 
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