Elite

[ExBassGuide]

Most T.D by any Q.B. in the NFL last year! And with a bad O line!
Sound dam Elite to me!
In My book YES Russ is Elite.
Roger

 

[olyfan63]

Yes, missed the sarcasm.
Several of those guys could certainly be good to great. But not very many of them will be anywhere as good as Wilson.

I got it and had a good chuckle. Your point was well taken. Who among them would we trade Russell for, straight across?

The list had just enough QBs who could be decent, but then there were the Nathan Petermans and Sam Bradfords who gave it away. Patrick Mahomes? We shall see. Derek Carr? The kid has "it", but it might take Gruden to bring it out consistently.

 

[hawksincebirth]

However, there is a subset of QBs that can produce in spite of the holes in their team, that produce consistently, and are the primary focal point of the offense yet still consistently produce above average results. By that standard, he is nowhere near these elite QBs. Qbs like Brees, Rodgers and Brady are the only ones you can put in this group.



.

Your argument about a subset of QBs that can produce despite holes in their team describes Wilson perfectly. Last year the o line was historically bad, there was no running game, yet he led the league in TDS and despite a horrific kicker could have had 11 wins and a playoff berth. And this was with a defense that lost numerous stars to season ending injuries. No other QB could have carried his team like he did last year. Yep, elite!

Brady takes last years team to nfc champ game .. he gets the ball out before rushes get there , Rodgers too .. Wilson is not on their level . Pre snap, no. Pocket control, no. Inner clock, no. Blitz Brady or Rodgers you get torched. Contain Wilson and blitz up the middle. He cannot and still cannot beat the blitz in his 7th year

Nope. Beat the crap out of the eagles cover zero blitz.

505 yards says he did .. 3 tds zero picks .

 

[Spin Doctor]

Your argument about a subset of QBs that can produce despite holes in their team describes Wilson perfectly. Last year the o line was historically bad, there was no running game, yet he led the league in TDS and despite a horrific kicker could have had 11 wins and a playoff berth. And this was with a defense that lost numerous stars to season ending injuries. No other QB could have carried his team like he did last year. Yep, elite!

Brady takes last years team to nfc champ game .. he gets the ball out before rushes get there , Rodgers too .. Wilson is not on their level . Pre snap, no. Pocket control, no. Inner clock, no. Blitz Brady or Rodgers you get torched. Contain Wilson and blitz up the middle. He cannot and still cannot beat the blitz in his 7th year

Nope. Beat the crap out of the eagles cover zero blitz.

505 yards says he did .. 3 tds zero picks .

Russ's problem is he is inconsistent in most everything he does. My biggest gripe about him is there seems to be a lack of control at the LOS, and adjustment. I don't know whether this is a Russ problem or Pete problem. In 2015 that is an element he added to his game that has since been missing in action. He was inconsistent here, but he was showing marked improvement. In some games he'll exploit the blitz, other he will just eat the pass rush.

Wilson is the Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde of QBs. I kind of liken him to a modern Donovan McNabb, only better of course. McNabb was one of the most scary QB's when he was on. He made some of the most jaw dropping throws, and make some amazing plays. Unfortunately Donovan McNabb had a consistency problem. One series he would dominate, the next he would miss wide open receivers, hang onto the ball, and go three and out. Like Wilson he was a polarizing figure in Philadelphia. Some fans loved him, other fans were frustrated by him.

 

[hawksincebirth]

Brady takes last years team to nfc champ game .. he gets the ball out before rushes get there , Rodgers too .. Wilson is not on their level . Pre snap, no. Pocket control, no. Inner clock, no. Blitz Brady or Rodgers you get torched. Contain Wilson and blitz up the middle. He cannot and still cannot beat the blitz in his 7th year

Nope. Beat the crap out of the eagles cover zero blitz.

505 yards says he did .. 3 tds zero picks .

Russ's problem is he is inconsistent in most everything he does. My biggest gripe about him is there seems to be a lack of control at the LOS, and adjustment. I don't know whether this is a Russ problem or Pete problem. In 2015 that is an element he added to his game that has since been missing in action. He was inconsistent here, but he was showing marked improvement. In some games he'll exploit the blitz, other he will just eat the pass rush.

Wilson is the Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde of QBs. I kind of liken him to a modern Donovan McNabb, only better of course. McNabb was one of the most scary QB's when he was on. He made some of the most jaw dropping throws, and make some amazing plays. Unfortunately Donovan McNabb had a consistency problem. One series he would dominate, the next he would miss wide open receivers, hang onto the ball, and go three and out. Like Wilson he was a polarizing figure in Philadelphia. Some fans loved him, other fans were frustrated by him.

This is my exact point on Wilson , I love him but I’m concerned about givin him a 200 million dollar ish contract

 

[camdawg]

And there is another group of QBs that have never had the teams that Wilson was gifted with (specifically the historic defenses) that are better QBs than Wilson. This is a small group, however. Rivers is one, and given what Ryan did last year I don't think you can argue he deserves to be.

Then you have guys like Wentz who nobody knows is good or bad because the sample size is too small.

Yeah, that Rivers guy. If you just gave him a good defense and top running game like Russ had, Phil would be winning a ton of playoff games. Especially if he had a top seed that let him stay at home in the playoffs.

I mean, seriously? Rivers won nothing as the 14-2 #1 seed. Or did you forget that? Did you also forget when he lost to Mark Sanchez at home as the #2 seed?

Rivers WAS gifted a very good situation, and completely choked at home.

 

[adeltaY]

Your argument about a subset of QBs that can produce despite holes in their team describes Wilson perfectly. Last year the o line was historically bad, there was no running game, yet he led the league in TDS and despite a horrific kicker could have had 11 wins and a playoff berth. And this was with a defense that lost numerous stars to season ending injuries. No other QB could have carried his team like he did last year. Yep, elite!

Brady takes last years team to nfc champ game .. he gets the ball out before rushes get there , Rodgers too .. Wilson is not on their level . Pre snap, no. Pocket control, no. Inner clock, no. Blitz Brady or Rodgers you get torched. Contain Wilson and blitz up the middle. He cannot and still cannot beat the blitz in his 7th year

Nope. Beat the crap out of the eagles cover zero blitz.

505 yards says he did .. 3 tds zero picks .

I'm talking about Wilson not Brady... How would my comment even make sense if I was talking about Brady?

Also Brady didn't carry his team to victory today.... What's up with that? :mrgreen:

 

[JGreen79]

However, there is a subset of QBs that can produce in spite of the holes in their team, that produce consistently, and are the primary focal point of the offense yet still consistently produce above average results. By that standard, he is nowhere near these elite QBs. Qbs like Brees, Rodgers and Brady are the only ones you can put in this group.



.

Your argument about a subset of QBs that can produce despite holes in their team describes Wilson perfectly. Last year the o line was historically bad, there was no running game, yet he led the league in TDS and despite a horrific kicker could have had 11 wins and a playoff berth. And this was with a defense that lost numerous stars to season ending injuries. No other QB could have carried his team like he did last year. Yep, elite!

Brady takes last years team to nfc champ game .. he gets the ball out before rushes get there , Rodgers too .. Wilson is not on their level . Pre snap, no. Pocket control, no. Inner clock, no. Blitz Brady or Rodgers you get torched. Contain Wilson and blitz up the middle. He cannot and still cannot beat the blitz in his 7th year

Wilson had the 3rd best passer rating against the blitz last year at 109.3.

He even had a game in 2015 where he went 11 of 11 for 3 TD's against the blitz.

To say he cannot beat the blitz is crazy....

 

[Spin Doctor]

However, there is a subset of QBs that can produce in spite of the holes in their team, that produce consistently, and are the primary focal point of the offense yet still consistently produce above average results. By that standard, he is nowhere near these elite QBs. Qbs like Brees, Rodgers and Brady are the only ones you can put in this group.



.

Your argument about a subset of QBs that can produce despite holes in their team describes Wilson perfectly. Last year the o line was historically bad, there was no running game, yet he led the league in TDS and despite a horrific kicker could have had 11 wins and a playoff berth. And this was with a defense that lost numerous stars to season ending injuries. No other QB could have carried his team like he did last year. Yep, elite!

Brady takes last years team to nfc champ game .. he gets the ball out before rushes get there , Rodgers too .. Wilson is not on their level . Pre snap, no. Pocket control, no. Inner clock, no. Blitz Brady or Rodgers you get torched. Contain Wilson and blitz up the middle. He cannot and still cannot beat the blitz in his 7th year

Wilson had the 3rd best passer rating against the blitz last year at 109.3.

He even had a game in 2015 where he went 11 of 11 for 3 TD's against the blitz.

To say he cannot beat the blitz is crazy....

Those numbers are inflated in my opinion. He can beat the blitz, it is just that he doesn't do it in a orthodox way. A lot of it is with his mobility. I've noticed he doesn't look so hot against the blitz when teams force him to commit to the pocket. It is definitely going to be a concern if he even loses a modicum of his athleticism. Right now Russ is a good QB, but I don't think his skills will hold up very well if he stays as he is.

 

[JGreen79]

Wilson had the 3rd best passer rating against the blitz last year at 109.3.

He even had a game in 2015 where he went 11 of 11 for 3 TD's against the blitz.

To say he cannot beat the blitz is crazy....

Those numbers are inflated in my opinion. He can beat the blitz, it is just that he doesn't do it in a orthodox way. A lot of it is with his mobility. I've noticed he doesn't look so hot against the blitz when teams force him to commit to the pocket. It is definitely going to be a concern if he even loses a modicum of his athleticism. Right now Russ is a good QB, but I don't think his skills will hold up very well if he stays as he is.

Most of the time when he beats the blitz, he does it from within the pocket. In fact I'd be willing to bet some of his best work is done from the pocket. The biggest problem is that teams are able to get pressure without blitzing. That is the key to beating Russ.

Highlights from the 2015 game. Only one clip has him leaving the pocket, and it wasn't against the blitz.
[youtube]LN9_AsL_Z8w[/youtube]

Highlights from the game against the Steelers, none of the clips show him leaving the pocket on a blitz.
[youtube]lfsQPmkGDfI[/youtube]

Highlights from the Texans game last season. Left the pocket once against the blitz once.
[youtube]hRyeFj7XsXY[/youtube]

 

[ZagHawk]

IMO

Elite - Rodgers, Brady, Brees

Great - The other dudes on winning/good teams and/or are good but on losing teams including RW.

RW cannot consistently carry this team and/or we have seen too many games where the defense has bailed him out and/or kept the game close enough yet the game still results in a loss due to his poor play. We can blame the O line or receiver drops or whatever, but we have seen the elite QBs play with the same issues and their "elite-ness" allows them to find ways to overcome those issues. RW is great, he's not elite. His first couple years he showed promise that he could become elite, but we're in year 7...I think i'm just gonna accept he's great./

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Like those 7-9 seasons for Brees?

 

[adeltaY]

But is Joe flacco elite?

 

[ZagHawk]

Like those 7-9 seasons for Brees?

i think brees has the same team around him that RW has these past few years he’s 10-14 wins

 

[Seymour]

But is Joe flacco elite?

Sherman thinks so. But then again he also thought Tharold "I own this town" Simon was too. :shock:

 

[mrt144]

Like those 7-9 seasons for Brees?

i think brees has the same team around him that RW has these past few years he’s 10-14 wins

It must be extremely hard to build such a team if the Saints have only had sporadically good teams in 10 years, hanging on to a bonafide elite QB for that time, right?

 

[Seymour]

Like those 7-9 seasons for Brees?

i think brees has the same team around him that RW has these past few years he’s 10-14 wins

He also has a great offensive minded head coach and Russ is saddled with Bevell, Pete, Cable, and now Schotty.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Wilson had the 3rd best passer rating against the blitz last year at 109.3.

He even had a game in 2015 where he went 11 of 11 for 3 TD's against the blitz.

To say he cannot beat the blitz is crazy....

Those numbers are inflated in my opinion. He can beat the blitz, it is just that he doesn't do it in a orthodox way. A lot of it is with his mobility. I've noticed he doesn't look so hot against the blitz when teams force him to commit to the pocket. It is definitely going to be a concern if he even loses a modicum of his athleticism. Right now Russ is a good QB, but I don't think his skills will hold up very well if he stays as he is.

Most of the time when he beats the blitz, he does it from within the pocket. In fact I'd be willing to bet some of his best work is done from the pocket. The biggest problem is that teams are able to get pressure without blitzing. That is the key to beating Russ.

Highlights from the 2015 game. Only one clip has him leaving the pocket, and it wasn't against the blitz.
[youtube]LN9_AsL_Z8w[/youtube]

Highlights from the game against the Steelers, none of the clips show him leaving the pocket on a blitz.
[youtube]lfsQPmkGDfI[/youtube]

Highlights from the Texans game last season. Left the pocket once against the blitz once.
[youtube]hRyeFj7XsXY[/youtube]

Wilson was hardly blitzed in any of these clips. When he was blitzed in the Texans game he had a lot of time to throw the ball. In 2015 he was a more cerebral QB but since then he's fallen on bad habits. We have not seen that same QB since 2015.

The bottomline is, teams that Wilson struggles against generally strive to keep him contained in the pocket. Teams like the Rams, the Broncos, etc. They approach him with a controlled rush, and delayed blitz's to really throw him off, and usually it works.

 

[Seymour]

The problem I see with those that rate Wilson poorly is compensation for pressure. It is a well known fact that since 2012 Russ is the MOST pressured QB in the NFL thanks to Tom Cable and Pete.

Now....those that evaluate him poorly, how do you adjust his stats and what you see to compensate for this?

Go watch ANY NFL QB that is allowed time to find the #2 and 3 reads and watch what happens. He will light it up, yes any average QB becomes "Elite" looking with no pressure. Put the same QB under heavy pressure and many if not most will fold and look like the belong in the CFL.

That is what Wilson has to look forward to every damn week, and the reason I was so hell bent of ridding us of Cable and calling him out. Every bad habit Russ has is complements of Tom Cable and Pete for allowing it.

This is why I need to see his resilience with a decent oline and protection before I feel good about $33M per year deal. Problem is, we may never see that with Pete here. :|

 

[adeltaY]

The problem I see with those that rate Wilson poorly is compensation for pressure. It is a well known fact that since 2012 Russ is the MOST pressured QB in the NFL thanks to Tom Cable and Pete.

Now....those that evaluate him poorly, how do you adjust his stats and what you see to compensate for this?

Go watch ANY NFL QB that is allowed time to find the #2 and 3 reads and watch what happens. He will light it up, yes any average QB becomes "Elite" looking with no pressure. Put the same QB under heavy pressure and many if not most will fold and look like the belong in the CFL.

That is what Wilson has to look forward to every damn week, and the reason I was so hell bent of ridding us of Cable and calling him out. Every bad habit Russ has is complements of Tom Cable and Pete for allowing it.

This is why I need to see his resilience with a decent oline and protection before I feel good about $33M per year deal. Problem is, we may never see that with Pete here. :|

Stats confirm RW most pressure QB within 2 seconds since 2012.

Blake Bortles this Week exemplified how having great protection can make a QB look elite. He had all day to throw and those crosser and checkdowns were wide open.