Everyone's blaming Bevell, but......

[Siouxhawk]

If Bevell had no aspirations of being a HC, he wouldn't have interviewed while the team was making deep playoff runs in 2012, & 2013. He would of declined those interviews, and focused 100% on game planning for the opponent, since he had no interest in being a HC. Sorry to break it to you folks, but Bevell would love to be an NFL HC.

The interviews likely happened during a bye week. And I'm sure he does want to be a head coach someday; but for the moment he has a good gig that he's thriving in. That's good for all parties.

 

[NFSeahawks]

I find it strange that some people want to blame Bevell for everything but the pro Bevell crowd has gotten almost as weird. The guy doesn't do anything wrong? You weren't baffled by at least a couple of plays? There is a reason he gets zero interest the past couple of years for coaching jobs. He is a mid level OC at best. I think his creativity and overall approach are incredible at times. Situational calls though he seems to really struggle at times. I don't think that is even debatable. Not everyone of course and a few guys are pretty level headed on the topic.

Why do you keep starting your posts defending one side and then pivoting to the other?

Call what you see, people who disapprove of Bevell have tons of evidence based on the games we've seen.

You are free to think Bevell is doing a great job game in and game out, but there just is no evidence to that. Why does the team have peaks and valleys every year, why is the offense constantly trying to "figure things out" why is Russ always saying "We're almost there"?

It's silly. Also getting mad at "Bevell haters" isn't a point to stand on, actually give me something substantial that he is doing well that you want to point to. I'm looking for consistency as well.

Huh? My post was a critique of the pro-Bevell crowd and you saw that as me defending Bevell?

You've tried to play both sides in mulitple posts even though its clear you lean on the side of blaming Bevell more than not.

You say, "I find it strange that people want to blame Bevell for everything"....
Then you go on to talk about why you don't think he's that great.

I just don't think you need to justify yourself like that, say what you see, say what you think. I don't think Bevell is the only problem but I think he's a large part of our problem on offense.

 

[NFSeahawks]

I think some are missing or maybe ignoring the penalties in this game. Virtually every time we had success of any kind it was met with a major penalty. Some where the next series after a first down and some just killed a good play but there is no ignoring that the type and timing of penalties were the biggest factor of why our offense never got anything going.

Not saying it was intentional by the refs, though you could make a good argument but through the entire regular period of play right down to the last offensive series were after a first down and looking like we could potentially get into field goal range, we found ourselves penalized 20 yards backwards looking at a 1st and 30 with no shot at getting back into field goal range.

Once regulation ended and the officials held they're flags we moved the ball at will.

Seems like some want to blame Bevell for the penalties along with the drops and bad passes.

Personally if they just stopped the microscope ticky tacky calls I think we win this game pretty easily and look good doing it.

Not saying Bevell is great but I just don't understand how you can ignore everything else and blame him for everything that took place in that game. Unless you have an agenda.

Who has blamed him for the penalties? If they have I must have missed it. Most are simply tired of the bland play calling and lack of (perceived) adaptation to the game plan. If a team doesn't adapt, then they will usually lose.

This whole thread is using this last game as evidence of his inibility to perform.

There are more factors at play than just play calling.

There are many more games to look at, this isn't a first time thing. I think thats what everyone is getting at.

 

[NFSeahawks]

Could you imagine the torches and putchforks if Wilson threw an Int trying to score?

Only option IMO was a run and we don't have Lynch or Rawls and I just don't think they trust C-Mike.

Russell Wilson has shown an ability to perform at the highest level. He doesn't make dumb mistakes.
That's the difference him and Bevell.

When Bevell shows a consistency to being an excellent play caller game in and game out, I'll cut him some slack.

Those whining about the Bevell posts better get used to it, this is a forum board meant for discussion about the team.

I don't want to only talk about the good things with the team, do you know how boring that would get? Our defense is amazing! Great! Now how can the other side of the ball help them?

Part of being passionate about the Seahawks is getting pissed off when a coach isn't performing to the incredibly high standards that we all have for this team.

It's part of being competitive and having a winning mindset.

 

[Optimus25]

Could you imagine the torches and putchforks if Wilson threw an Int trying to score?

Only option IMO was a run and we don't have Lynch or Rawls and I just don't think they trust C-Mike.

Russell Wilson has shown an ability to perform at the highest level. He doesn't make dumb mistakes.
That's the difference him and Bevell.

When Bevell shows a consistency to being an excellent play caller game in and game out, I'll cut him some slack.

Those whining about the Bevell posts better get used to it, this is a forum board meant for discussion about the team.

I don't want to only talk about the good things with the team, do you know how boring that would get? Our defense is amazing! Great! Now how can the other side of the ball help them?

Part of being passionate about the Seahawks is getting pissed off when a coach isn't performing to the incredibly high standards that we all have for this team.

It's part of being competitive and having a winning mindset.

:2thumbs: :2thumbs:

 

[hawker84]

The interviews likely happened during a bye week. And I'm sure he does want to be a head coach someday; but for the moment he has a good gig that he's thriving in. That's good for all parties.

You guys are in denial, if you think Bevell wouldn't have jumped at a HCing job if offered. Fact is we've been a SB winning and contending team since the year after RW got here. If he was in fact just an above average OC, he would have been offered a HCing job by now. And I don't want to hear the "maybe he doesn't interview good" excuse, because Harbaugh is one of, if not the biggest bafoons to ever step on an NFL football field and he got the gig. Why? because he's a good coach, certainly not because of his winning personality......

 

[RichNhansom]

Could you imagine the torches and putchforks if Wilson threw an Int trying to score?

Only option IMO was a run and we don't have Lynch or Rawls and I just don't think they trust C-Mike.

Russell Wilson has shown an ability to perform at the highest level. He doesn't make dumb mistakes.
That's the difference him and Bevell.

When Bevell shows a consistency to being an excellent play caller game in and game out, I'll cut him some slack.

Those whining about the Bevell posts better get used to it, this is a forum board meant for discussion about the team.

I don't want to only talk about the good things with the team, do you know how boring that would get? Our defense is amazing! Great! Now how can the other side of the ball help them?

Part of being passionate about the Seahawks is getting pissed off when a coach isn't performing to the incredibly high standards that we all have for this team.

It's part of being competitive and having a winning mindset.

:2thumbs: :2thumbs:

Really? At the highest level? Wilson is one of the worst red zone QB's in the league. Why are we not holding him accountable to that?

If you believe Wilson doesn't make mistakes there is no way you will believe he could be part of the problem so you will shift that blame any way you can.

It's kind of like using the head coaching argument as proof Bevell is the devil.

Just because two coordinators got head coaching jobs is not proof that Bevell sucks. Do you believe those 2 coordinaters would be head coaches right now if they were DC's in Cleveland?

Do you believe our offensive talent has been equal to our defensive talent since Bevell arrived?

Has Bevell had the luxury of not just some of the elite talent in the league but an offensive genious as a head coach?

You could make an argument that Bevell has actually accomplished more than Bradley or Quinn considering the hands each were dealt. Unless of course you think Wilson is comparable to a cast of pro bowlers and allpro's on defense and Pete secretly is an offensive mastermind. Wouldn't Jeremy Bates have benefited from Pete the offensive mastermind?

The blame for poor offensive performance doesn't fall on one person. To believe that you have to be purposely ignoring many other factors.

And believe me. I've been as passionate as any fan since 1976. Maybe I've just seen enough over the years that I have learned to try and look at the whole picture rather than the whole pitchfork.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Very insightful post, RichN.

And Hawker84, being a long-term OC, especially one who calls plays (a handful don't), is a great enough job that someone like Bevell might indeed want to hold onto it longer than the norm. And what's wrong with that? Who was the fellow in Indy that served in that capacity during all those good Peyton Manning years? Was it Tom Moore? Hell, he may have come over from Baltimore. Then we used the Mike Zimmer analogy from the other side of the ball. The job has way less stress and with the Hawks, you get the pleasure of working with Pete and Russell and an owner who likely rewards the coaching staff among the best as far as compensation. Maybe Bev just yet doesn't want to be a coach who is rewarded with the jackpot contract of being a head guy, has a few lean years from the get-go and then gets tossed before his contract is up like the turnstile of Jets and Browns coaches. Maybe he's using this job to better prepare himself for that future. Maybe that future is with the Hawks.

All of that is down the road anyhow. His job here is to get the offense back into a rhythm -- and he will. The chore is to try to limit Russell's exposure to big hits as that knee and ankle heal. This means less run-option, a major staple of our offense. It means regenerating a pounding run game, a boost Rawls hopefully provides when he returns. Our line just needs to provide more stability than a wet paper bag and I think we'll be OK. Jimmy has to play with that monster passion he had in the Atlanta game and he'll be a focal point of the offense going forward. We are 4-1-1 with a 2-game lead in our division and the best is yet to come.

 

[OkieHawk]

This means less run-option, a major staple of our offense.

With a gimpy RW there should be NO read option being called. A good OC would realize that and not do it, but yet how many times was it dialed up Sunday?

 

[Siouxhawk]

This means less run-option, a major staple of our offense.

With a gimpy RW there should be NO read option being called. A good OC would realize that and not do it, but yet how many times was it dialed up Sunday?

The only one that stands out to me Okie is when he should of handed off to CMike for a first down, but instead kept it and was tackled for a 2-yard loss. I remember seeing play-action passes, but that's different.
I do know that without a doubt we are not doing as much read-option as when Russ is healthy and that's been a big component of our offense.

 

[OkieHawk]

This means less run-option, a major staple of our offense.

With a gimpy RW there should be NO read option being called. A good OC would realize that and not do it, but yet how many times was it dialed up Sunday?

The only one that stands out to me Okie is when he should of handed off to CMike for a first down, but instead kept it and was tackled for a 2-yard loss. I remember seeing play-action passes, but that's different.
I do know that without a doubt we are not doing as much read-option as when Russ is healthy and that's been a big component of our offense.

You missed my point, we shouldn't be calling any RO plays with a gimpy QB. Again, a good OC wouldn't dial them up at all in that scenario.

 

[Siouxhawk]

This means less run-option, a major staple of our offense.

With a gimpy RW there should be NO read option being called. A good OC would realize that and not do it, but yet how many times was it dialed up Sunday?

The only one that stands out to me Okie is when he should of handed off to CMike for a first down, but instead kept it and was tackled for a 2-yard loss. I remember seeing play-action passes, but that's different.
I do know that without a doubt we are not doing as much read-option as when Russ is healthy and that's been a big component of our offense.

You missed my point, we shouldn't be calling any RO plays with a gimpy QB. Again, a good OC wouldn't dial them up at all in that scenario.

Under that scenario, why is Russ even playing and why didn't we go with a proven QB like Tarvaris as our backup instead of an undrafted rookie who was having difficulty grasping our entire playbook? Maybe he does have it down by now. I'd hope so.

 

[OkieHawk]

Under that scenario, why is Russ even playing and why didn't we go with a proven QB like Tarvaris as our backup instead of an undrafted rookie who was having difficulty grasping our entire playbook? Maybe he does have it down by now. I'd hope so.

Players play through injuries, but coaches should still dial up schemes that help said players in these situations. Your deflection to Tarvaris is rather weird. You seem to be completely unable to admit that Bevell may have been messing up along with the other problems the team currently has.

Look at what the Colts have done to help out Luck. He was getting abused this year until they changed their offense scheme to get the ball out quicker. Their OL is absolutely horrible as well, but they overcame that hurdle. Why can't we? Because Bevell.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Under that scenario, why is Russ even playing and why didn't we go with a proven QB like Tarvaris as our backup instead of an undrafted rookie who was having difficulty grasping our entire playbook? Maybe he does have it down by now. I'd hope so.

Players play through injuries, but coaches should still dial up schemes that help said players in these situations. Your deflection to Tarvaris is rather weird. You seem to be completely unable to admit that Bevell may have been messing up along with the other problems the team currently has.

Look at what the Colts have done to help out Luck. He was getting abused this year until they changed their offense scheme to get the ball out quicker. Their OL is absolutely horrible as well, but they overcame that hurdle. Why can't we? Because Bevell.

Absolutely Bevell doesn't get any free passes -- I've never once stated that. But he doesn't deserve all the shortsighted finger-pointing of blame that a handful of petulant reactionaries turn to every time our offense struggles a bit. This with our offensive line in shambles, our Pro Bowl QB still somewhat gimpy and our power-running back out. Throw in some poor execution and you have the recipe for Sunday, a game we still should have won on the leg of our placekicker.

And I don't know why you find my bringing up Tarvaris weird. Don't you think they'd be more likely to turn to a seasoned backup than an undrafted rookie if they wanted to give Russ some rest to recover? Now would they do that? Unlikely. But it may have given them more food for thought.

As far as the Colts, I'm guessing I could look at the play-by-play rundown and I wouldn't see as many drive-ruining holding and false start penalties from their line in their win as our line in our tie. And the Colts have 3 more losses than us.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

Why does everyone think every play is dialed up by Bevell. Russ has the ability to change things on the line. I would bet some of the plays Russ audibled into turned out bad. There are so many things at play that one person is not to blame for them all. I just hope they can all get on the same page and get there _____ together.

In better news it seems like they have a moment like this every year and a light comes on and things change for the better. Lets hope this was that moment.

 

[hawker84]

Very insightful post, RichN.

And Hawker84, being a long-term OC, especially one who calls plays (a handful don't), is a great enough job that someone like Bevell might indeed want to hold onto it longer than the norm. And what's wrong with that? Who was the fellow in Indy that served in that capacity during all those good Peyton Manning years? Was it Tom Moore? Hell, he may have come over from Baltimore. Then we used the Mike Zimmer analogy from the other side of the ball. The job has way less stress and with the Hawks, you get the pleasure of working with Pete and Russell and an owner who likely rewards the coaching staff among the best as far as compensation. Maybe Bev just yet doesn't want to be a coach who is rewarded with the jackpot contract of being a head guy, has a few lean years from the get-go and then gets tossed before his contract is up like the turnstile of Jets and Browns coaches. Maybe he's using this job to better prepare himself for that future. Maybe that future is with the Hawks.

All of that is down the road anyhow. His job here is to get the offense back into a rhythm -- and he will. The chore is to try to limit Russell's exposure to big hits as that knee and ankle heal. This means less run-option, a major staple of our offense. It means regenerating a pounding run game, a boost Rawls hopefully provides when he returns. Our line just needs to provide more stability than a wet paper bag and I think we'll be OK. Jimmy has to play with that monster passion he had in the Atlanta game and he'll be a focal point of the offense going forward. We are 4-1-1 with a 2-game lead in our division and the best is yet to come.

Point Taken.

Listen, I think these threads are healthy, and it's good to hear all the different perspectives and theories. I truly respect everyone's points of view. I for one always try to partake in a good debate whenever I can find one. However after umpteen pages, I still have not heard/seen any evidence to convince me to change my views, and now it's becoming rhetorical, so I will respectfully bow out of the discussion. Carry on gentlemen and good luck.

 

[RCATES]

You guys are putting way too much into this. Our problem is simple. We're terrible at the Tackle position. Downright horrid. Either Seattle makes a big trade and brings in Thomas or Staley or we waste away another championship year out of this team with players in their prime. For all the good this front office has done with drafting and player development they have failed miserably with building the O-Line. Smh

 

[nash72]

If you don't like Bevell, then you don't like Pete.

Pete Carroll is a HOF college coach, and going to be a HOF NFL coach, and has forgotten more football knowledge then you have in your entire brains.

If Bevell's so terrible, why is he here?

Because Pete is loyal to a fault. Its one of his most glaring weaknesses.

Pete Carroll does not hire bad coaches, Period.

BS. Bevell and Cable are mediocre to below mediocre coaches and thats putting it nicely. Tell me how this team has two defensive coordinators snagged up for head coaching positions and Bevell is still here, yet knowing he wants a HC position? Its not hard to figure out.

Bevell is here because he's a good coordinator that works well within the confines of what Pete wants run on offense, ball control pound the rock let Russell make 3-4 explosive plays per game, etc.

And while the team has been successful using this formula due to outstanding talent and players that fit the scheme, it could be so much better. Its frustrating that this team hardly ever blows other teams out. Actually, it seems like they have to make comebacks a lot of the times due to the lackluster offense.

This offense was #4 in the NFL last year, and #1 the last six weeks................ with almost the exact same personnel, AND Bevell as it's coordinator. It's having a hard time this year because half it's players are hurt, especially Russell, Lockett and Rawls.

Last year, the team went on that stretch in which Wilson was putting up historical numbers and Rawls was running out of his rearend. You know why that happened? Pete and Bevell had to abandon the ball control aspect due to a horrible line and an often injured Lynch. Why dont they continue to do so now is baffling. As for the #1 rating the last 6 weeks (wasnt aware of the rating and hard to believe with Atlanta putting up so many points, but understandable), who have we played? The Rams and the Cardinals are the only two teams we have played with good defenses and you know how that turned out.

Playcalling fixes all this? Really?

It sure does help.

 

[StoneCold]

I find it strange that some people want to blame Bevell for everything but the pro Bevell crowd has gotten almost as weird. The guy doesn't do anything wrong? You weren't baffled by at least a couple of plays? There is a reason he gets zero interest the past couple of years for coaching jobs. He is a mid level OC at best. I think his creativity and overall approach are incredible at times. Situational calls though he seems to really struggle at times. I don't think that is even debatable. Not everyone of course and a few guys are pretty level headed on the topic.

Why do you keep starting your posts defending one side and then pivoting to the other?

Call what you see, people who disapprove of Bevell have tons of evidence based on the games we've seen.

You are free to think Bevell is doing a great job game in and game out, but there just is no evidence to that. Why does the team have peaks and valleys every year, why is the offense constantly trying to "figure things out" why is Russ always saying "We're almost there"?

It's silly. Also getting mad at "Bevell haters" isn't a point to stand on, actually give me something substantial that he is doing well that you want to point to. I'm looking for consistency as well.

Huh? My post was a critique of the pro-Bevell crowd and you saw that as me defending Bevell?

You've tried to play both sides in mulitple posts even though its clear you lean on the side of blaming Bevell more than not.

You say, "I find it strange that people want to blame Bevell for everything"....
Then you go on to talk about why you don't think he's that great.

I just don't think you need to justify yourself like that, say what you see, say what you think. I don't think Bevell is the only problem but I think he's a large part of our problem on offense.

Is Bevell a larger part of the problem than the Olines performance?

 

[Siouxhawk]

Very insightful post, RichN.

And Hawker84, being a long-term OC, especially one who calls plays (a handful don't), is a great enough job that someone like Bevell might indeed want to hold onto it longer than the norm. And what's wrong with that? Who was the fellow in Indy that served in that capacity during all those good Peyton Manning years? Was it Tom Moore? Hell, he may have come over from Baltimore. Then we used the Mike Zimmer analogy from the other side of the ball. The job has way less stress and with the Hawks, you get the pleasure of working with Pete and Russell and an owner who likely rewards the coaching staff among the best as far as compensation. Maybe Bev just yet doesn't want to be a coach who is rewarded with the jackpot contract of being a head guy, has a few lean years from the get-go and then gets tossed before his contract is up like the turnstile of Jets and Browns coaches. Maybe he's using this job to better prepare himself for that future. Maybe that future is with the Hawks.

All of that is down the road anyhow. His job here is to get the offense back into a rhythm -- and he will. The chore is to try to limit Russell's exposure to big hits as that knee and ankle heal. This means less run-option, a major staple of our offense. It means regenerating a pounding run game, a boost Rawls hopefully provides when he returns. Our line just needs to provide more stability than a wet paper bag and I think we'll be OK. Jimmy has to play with that monster passion he had in the Atlanta game and he'll be a focal point of the offense going forward. We are 4-1-1 with a 2-game lead in our division and the best is yet to come.

Point Taken.

Listen, I think these threads are healthy, and it's good to hear all the different perspectives and theories. I truly respect everyone's points of view. I for one always try to partake in a good debate whenever I can find one. However after umpteen pages, I still have not heard/seen any evidence to convince me to change my views, and now it's becoming rhetorical, so I will respectfully bow out of the discussion. Carry on gentlemen and good luck.

Hawker84, yes, you and I have different viewpoints on the person tasked with pushing the buttons on our team's offense, but I do appreciate your input and opinions and we both on the same side, after all, big picture. Now let's go get big games from Jimmy and C.J. and defeat those Saints!