For our 9er fans on this forum

[Laloosh]

Pack it up boys. Niner fans say Russell isn't elite. Let's trade him for Manning and go 1-15 with that o-line next year.

I'm gonna have to disagree there about what you are implying. And this is not me trying to insult you or the hawks. Everyone knows we also have a mobile QB in Kaepernick.

I think sometimes the opposite is certainly true. Qbs with a propensity to scramble can make their line look worse than it really is. Kaepernick has made our OL look worse than it really is for the past 2 seasons with him leaving the pocket and not getting the ball out quickly, giving defenders more time to reach him and giving them a more clear lane to bounce off their blocker to the quarterback. This is true of all mobile QBs that scramble a lot when their first read isn't open.

When a QB can audible to more advantageous protections and plays with pre-snap reads and make quick decisions from the pocket, it goes a long way in making the pass protection and line look better.

Watch how Tom Brady makes subtle movements in the pocket to avoid the rush. He's pretty damn good at it. Being a great scrambler outside the pocket is a bonus, but not necessary.

I feel like you're trying too hard. Russell's in his 3rd year in the NFL. In 2013 he had the highest grade from PFF against the blitz with a +21.5 and he did that with the second highest percentage of blitzes at 39%. Second in that category was Brees with a whopping +11.5.

Why does it matter how he does it, as long as the results are there?

Have you looked at Brady's passing numbers from his third year in the league? Russell has matched or exceeded Brady's passing statistics in every category that matters when comparing their first three seasons and that's without including the things that Russell does with his legs (or the remaining three games).

I'd say Russell is doing just fine and I would absolutely consider him elite. He holds the ball too long at times, doesn't always see the open receiver and he bails on a good pocket before he has to at times. So what? It's about the results. He produces the results that this team needs to win games. He carries the offense when a big play has to be made and he doesn't hurt the team by turning the ball over like some of those "elite" quarterbacks.

Stop trying to tell me that my quarterback has to be a pocket passer. How freaking boring... Who was the better pocket passing quarterback in the freaking super bowl last year? How have the "elite" quarterbacks fared against really good NFCW defenses? Not so hot. I'll take RW vs the SF, AZ and STL defenses every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I'm not saying that he doesn't have his flaws or that he cannot improve. I'm saying he is elite, even with his flaws.

 

[hawknation2014]

Comparing Kaepernick's pocket mobility to Wilson's is so foolhardy. Really any comparison to Kaepernick is wishful thinking by 49ers fans.

From his ability to elude the pressure, to his clutch play at the end of games, to his throwing accuracy, to his decision making, to his intense preparation, to his overall leadership and public demeanor . . . Russell Wilson is on a different level.

 

[Scottemojo]

Comparing Kaepernick's pocket mobility to Wilson's is so foolhardy. Really any comparison to Kaepernick is wishful thinking by 49ers fans.

From his ability to elude the pressure, to his clutch play at the end of games, to his throwing accuracy, to his decision making, to his intense preparation, to his overall leadership and public demeanor . . . Russell Wilson is on a different level.

Any comparison of the two ends at the offensive lines. Colin was putting up numbers similar to Russ when his offense was simplified and he was behind the best offensive line in the league. Now that his offensive line is declining and injured, in a year where he is being expected to stand in the pocket and read a defense, he is floundering.

Russ has played behind beat up O-lines his whole career, and he just finds ways to get the job done. Colin needs elevated personnel. Russ elevates personnel.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

...........Colin needs elevated personnel. Russ elevates personnel.

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner!!

Post of the month my man. :thirishdrinkers:

 

[RationalNiner]

I feel like you're trying too hard. Russell's in his 3rd year in the NFL. In 2013 he had the highest grade from PFF against the blitz with a +21.5 and he did that with the second highest percentage of blitzes at 39%. Second in that category was Brees with a whopping +11.5.

Why does it matter how he does it, as long as the results are there?

Have you looked at Brady's passing numbers from his third year in the league? Russell has matched or exceeded Brady's passing statistics in every category that matters when comparing their first three seasons and that's without including the things that Russell does with his legs (or the remaining three games).

I'd say Russell is doing just fine and I would absolutely consider him elite. He holds the ball too long at times, doesn't always see the open receiver and he bails on a good pocket before he has to at times. So what? It's about the results. He produces the results that this team needs to win games. He carries the offense when a big play has to be made and he doesn't hurt the team by turning the ball over like some of those "elite" quarterbacks.

Stop trying to tell me that my quarterback has to be a pocket passer. How freaking boring... Who was the better pocket passing quarterback in the freaking super bowl last year? How have the "elite" quarterbacks fared against really good NFCW defenses? Not so hot. I'll take RW vs the SF, AZ and STL defenses every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I'm not saying that he doesn't have his flaws or that he cannot improve. I'm saying he is elite, even with his flaws.

I'm not trying to say Russell is a poor QB and all of us have said he is a good QB. I don't really feel like addressing what you've said as you did not really address what I said in my original reply to you. What I was talking about was how scrambling QBs can sometimes they make their line look poorer than it really is. The point of my reply wasn't me saying Russell isn't doing fine or hasn't had success so what you are talking about in reply to me is a different subject (Russell's overall success) and we've all admitted to it to his success so no need for debate there, though we do disagree on what is elite or not elite.

Comparing Kaepernick's pocket mobility to Wilson's is so foolhardy. Really any comparison to Kaepernick is wishful thinking by 49ers fans.

From his ability to elude the pressure, to his clutch play at the end of games, to his throwing accuracy, to his decision making, to his intense preparation, to his overall leadership and public demeanor . . . Russell Wilson is on a different level.

When I said that Wilson has a similar tendency to Kaepernick to scramble out of the pocket when his first read isn't open, it wasn't an indictment of Wilson's overall QBing ability. I was just trying to illustrate a tendency he has. Wilson is a more elusive, intelligent scrambler than Kaepernick, and a better QB.

 

[chris98251]

You say a scrambler makes a line look poorer, I tend to think they can make a poor one look better, at times yes things break down, but buying time and doing what Wilson does in keeping his eye down field breaks down a defense as creates confusion for the defense. The one thing I think he really needs to improve on is throwing receivers open and trusting his arm more. Again that may not be on him as much as direction from the staff to not take any chances. He seemed to be fine throwing the ball in college so I think he has the ability. Kaep doesn't look to throw as much once he breaks out, it's run.

 

[RationalNiner]

You say a scrambler makes a line look poorer, I tend to think they can make a poor one look better, at times yes things break down, but buying time and doing what Wilson does in keeping his eye down field breaks down a defense as creates confusion for the defense.

A scrambler can make a line look good when things completely break down and they can make something out of nothing. But when a QB scrambles when it isn't necessary, they can make the line worse as the blockers don't know where the QB is but the defense does.

The one thing I think he really needs to improve on is throwing receivers open and trusting his arm more. Again that may not be on him as much as direction from the staff to not take any chances. He seemed to be fine throwing the ball in college so I think he has the ability. Kaep doesn't look to throw as much once he breaks out, it's run.

It's hard to tell at this point. It's either he doesn't trust his arm enough to do it on a regular basis and hasn't taken that next step or the coaching staff is telling him not to take risks. I think it might be a combination of things. He'll eventually have to do it if/when the run game loses its dominance.