Geno one reason for PC got fired?

[IndyHawk]

Well when management drafts a bad qb early you gotta try and salvage that move in order to save your job resulting in years of bad qb play. Drafting a rd1 bust at qb usually means dismissal.

The Bears ended up giving us a sweet deal for Mirer though so it
wasn't all bad.

 

[Cyrus12]

The Bears ended up giving us a sweet deal for Mirer though so it
wasn't all bad.

He just needed a change of scenery ...

 

[MyrtleHawk]

With the apparent Geno hate on this board, I'm sure a number of folks would really LIKE for this to be true, anyway...

I guess if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, run with it.

I can't speak for everyone but I'm not sure people HATE Geno, moreso they hate the square peg that Pete was trying to force into a circle hole that is Geno being the QB that will lead us deep into the playoffs.

I personally don't hate Geno, I hated what he represented with Pete. Keeping the team hanging on life support to get just a few more minutes out of it when we should've been aiming at the future. I never once thought Geno would ever be the QB that wins the Hawks a SB, much less TAKE the Hawks to the SB. Doesn't mean I hate the guy. I wish him success whether it's here or elsewhere, I think we've all seen his ceiling though.

 

[sutz]

Damn cold out. F'n Geno.

 

[Cyrus12]

Damn cold out. F'n Geno.

He obviously didn't write the weather man back...

 

[keasley45]

This wasn't about Geno. It was about Pete's overriding belief that faith in one's self, faith in your teammates and fellow man and staying committed to a cause could eventually overcome whatever difficulty confronts you.

Like many greats, his commitment and unwavering belief in those things made him and us champions. It also made it obvious when the time came to turn the page.

There was never a conspiracy. Never a power struggle. Never JS wanting to leave, or Jody not caring. The truth of it all has been told and obvious the whole time. It's just that the truth is sometimes boring and or difficult to take.

The PC era was just it's end.

And Pete might be angry now and saying 'things' in the media. But I think that's just part of the 'grieving ' process. It'd human nature. In some time, it will all be much clearer for him too.

 

[RolandDeschain]

That's a paradox, because Pete won a sb with a young, unpredictable mobile qb who ran often. It makes no sense why he would not want to go back to that.

Huh? Pete has never valued the QB position appropriately.

 

[RiverDog]

This wasn't about Geno. It was about Pete's overriding belief that faith in one's self, faith in your teammates and fellow man and staying committed to a cause could eventually overcome whatever difficulty confronts you.

Like many greats, his commitment and unwavering belief in those things made him and us champions. It also made it obvious when the time came to turn the page.

There was never a conspiracy. Never a power struggle. Never JS wanting to leave, or Jody not caring. The truth of it all has been told and obvious the whole time. It's just that the truth is sometimes boring and or difficult to take.

The PC era was just it's end.

And Pete might be angry now and saying 'things' in the media. But I think that's just part of the 'grieving ' process. It'd human nature. In some time, it will all be much clearer for him too.

Good post, and I completely agree.

And you might be right about Pete's saying 'things' to the media, like trying to explain his plan to non-football people. IMO that's his ego defense mechanism kicking in, looking for a reason why he couldn't talk his way out of being fired so he has someone or something to blame besides that guy in the mirror. It's a normal human reaction.

 

[keasley45]

Good post, and I completely agree.

And you might be right about Pete's saying 'things' to the media, like trying to explain his plan to non-football people. IMO that's his ego defense mechanism kicking in, looking for a reason why he couldn't talk his way out of being fired so he has someone or something to blame besides that guy in the mirror. It's a normal human reaction.

Yup

 

[nwHawk]

Hey guys,

saw some „Insider“ on X who said that one big thing about the PC decision was that he wanted to continue with Geno and not draft a QB in April. Owner and JS therefore want to draft a QB.
I know a lot of speculation, but i really think that this could be true.
You've often heard that JS had the right QB's on his radar in the past and maybe it was always because of PC that he couldn't draft them.
From the owner's perspective, I would also understand it, especially in the context of a sale. A young QB is more attractive than an obvious bridge QB like Geno.

Discuss

I read the same thing yesterday.

ComPete has been more about loyalty and family the past 5 years. Pete doesn’t have the same edge as when he was hired. It’s a double edged sword.

 

[keasley45]

Huh? Pete has never valued the QB position appropriately.

Pete never bought into the belief that you had to have an uber elite player at the position to win. It's not that he didn't value the position. He saw its value in context with the rest of a balanced team. And his belief was proven in the championship we went to and won.

Its no different than how 25 years ago it was thought that you had to have a top flight rb in the backfield to be successful. Some coaches believed that, some didn't. All knew the necessity of having an 'effective' backfield.

The emphasis on exceptionally high qb play of late is a result of the game being in a period where pass happy offenses are commonplace, in large part because of how the college game had transitioned. But I guarantee you it will not last. The trend back toward more physical than finesse play is already happening. Pete just didn't outlast the trend effectively enough. And... he lost sight of his blind spots.

It was his particular commitment to those most positive aspects of the human condition that did him in. It had nothing to do with his stance on the qb position.

 

[nwHawk]

Not sure what Pete meant by saying a few pieces away with Geno. Is there a scenario where they could of succeeded with Geno? I think so but it's more than a few pieces. Currently Purdy has those pieces. That team is stacked. The best rb in football and a great oline. Also a stout defense that gets the offense back on the field quickly. Put Purdy in the Seahawks line up and I think he flounders quickly.

Agreed. And now is the time to bite the bullet. San Fran and the Rams are solidly better and for a couple more seasons.

I respected the move Lynch and Shanny made to learn and move on from their Trey Lance mistake. Most organizations would suffer and flounder.

If something is not working, it’s okay to make changes and go a different direction.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Pete never bought into the belief that you had to have an uber elite player at the position to win. It's not that he didn't value the position. He saw its value in context with the rest of a balanced team. And his belief was proven in the championship we went to and won.

Its no different than how 25 years ago it was thought that you had to have a top flight rb in the backfield to be successful. Some coaches believed that, some didn't. All knew the necessity of having an 'effective' backfield.

The emphasis on exceptionally high qb play of late is a result of the game being in a period where pass happy offenses are commonplace, in large part because of how the college game had transitioned. But I guarantee you it will not last. The trend back toward more physical than finesse play is already happening. Pete just didn't outlast the trend effectively enough. And... he lost sight of his blind spots.

It was his particular commitment to those most positive aspects of the human condition that did him in. It had nothing to do with his stance on the qb position.

His vision proved to not really be sustainable, we got an all-world defense that was partially built by his advanced insight into college players about to go pro after having just come from USC, and he was never able to get even close to going back to that after the initial decline. You can't value the QB position in the modern NFL at the level Pete Carroll does, the league has turned it into a critical position because of how sexy big pass plays are to fans.

 

[keasley45]

His vision proved to not really be sustainable, we got an all-world defense that was partially built by his advanced insight into college players about to go pro after having just come from USC, and he was never able to get even close to going back to that after the initial decline. You can't value the QB position in the modern NFL at the level Pete Carroll does, the league has turned it into a critical position because of how sexy big pass plays are to fans.

Agreed . The league has turned it into a critical position. And the overall quality of play has gone down the toilet bowl.

It's cyclical. It will change again.

Football isnt a game of catch. It's physicality and aggression. We are just on a swing.

 

[Fresno Hawk]

Yes, one reason why but not the only one.

 

[renofox]

Well when management drafts a bad qb early you gotta try and salvage that move in order to save your job resulting in years of bad qb play. Drafting a rd1 bust at qb usually means dismissal.

What about when you waste 1st round picks on non QBs? PC used the 2018, 2019, 2021, and 2022 1st round picks on Rashaad Penny, LJ Collier, Jamal Adams, and Jamal Adams.

I just don't get how wasting a 1st round pick on a QB who doesn't bring substantial value affects a team worse than wasting a 1st round pick on any other position that doesn't bring substantial value.

Assign a number to the value if the plan succeeds. Something like Safety adds 5 points of value (if it works), DE 10 points, RB 7 points, QB 20 points. If you're playing the odds wouldn't you take your shot at the highest payback, knowing that any player you draft may not bring any value at all?

If a busted 1st round gamble should lead to dismissal, what about 4 busts in 5 years?

 

[LastRideOut]

I would put my thoughts right here. ^

Realistically, the truth is no one knows what exactly was said behind those doors. "It was time" is the only common sense take anyone can rely on.

Was it his idea?
Did they push him out?
Was it mutual?

Who cares. It was time and I'm good with that. Pete has been the most successful coach this team ever had to date. I loved it.

Yeah all the analysis in the world won't change the perception that it was just time. It also doesn't change the fact that Pete is a good ball coach. The best in Seahawks history. Doesn't change any of that.

Pete's approach was getting stale. It happens. He's also 72 years old. No doubt Pete has tons of energy, but I think even he recognizes he might be slowing down a little, with his recent comments about it being hard to see himself coaching another NFL team.

Pete is both a teacher and a student of the game. Sometimes, it's better if the teacher steps aside and lets change happen. I think it is best for the Seahawks going forward, to have a new coach and a new approach to the game. That in itself, is not an indictment of Pete's time here, or even the past few years.

 

[LastRideOut]

Would also like to add that I think Pete did a fantastic job with Geno. The same can be said for nearly all the quarterbacks who started under PC. They've thrived under Pete's tutelage.

Geno did better than just about anyone expected. Ditto for Russ. Matt Hasselbeck had some good games under PC as well. I wouldn't go so far as to call him a QB whisperer, but it's getting close.

If I had to pick between Holmgren and Carroll to develop a QB, it would be a difficult choice to make because Carroll has a longer track record of success with Seattle QBs.

 

[keasley45]

His vision proved to not really be sustainable, we got an all-world defense that was partially built by his advanced insight into college players about to go pro after having just come from USC, and he was never able to get even close to going back to that after the initial decline. You can't value the QB position in the modern NFL at the level Pete Carroll does, the league has turned it into a critical position because of how sexy big pass plays are to fans.

To couch his success as a product of his inside knowledge of the college game, and catching lightening in a bottle alone is to ignore everything former players have Saud about why what he built failed, and then why, after it failed, he struggled to recapture it. He overcommitted to the belief in human perservierance. And he fell on the sword of positivity above all else. It undermined everything else... accountability, Performance, excellence. There's a nuance to it all that goes well beyond the value of a qb or xs and os philosophy.

If Pete had brought in the right coaches to maintain excellence, accountability and performance, he'd still have a job and we'd be playing this weekend. He didn't. And we aren't.

But that's why Dan Quinn is so high on the Hawks list. Similar ethos, similar culture, but a willingness to be more adaptable.

 

[RolandDeschain]

To couch his success as a product of his inside knowledge of the college game, and catching lightening in a bottle alone is to ignore everything former players have Saud about why what he built failed, and then why, after it failed, he struggled to recapture it. He overcommitted to the belief in human perservierance. And he fell on the sword of positivity above all else. It undermined everything else... accountability, Performance, excellence. There's a nuance to it all that goes well beyond the value of a qb or xs and os philosophy.

If Pete had brought in the right coaches to maintain excellence, accountability and performance, he'd still have a job and we'd be playing this weekend. He didn't. And we aren't.

But that's why Dan Quinn is so high on the Hawks list. Similar ethos, similar culture, but a willingness to be more adaptable.

I'm not couching all of his success on that, but if you think we'd still have gotten a ring early on in his career if we'd poached him from another NFL team instead, then...well, let's just say I'd disagree.