Graham and blocking

themunn

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Scottemojo":13fsqo3w said:
Using Jimmy to do that regularly would be a stupid waste of resources. You might as well tell the DC "Hey, that guy you fear you might have to double? Tie him up this play with your lesser edge rusher! Let us know what else we can do to help!"

Either you double up Jimmy and that opens up room to blast through the middle with Lynch - or you "tie him up with your lesser edge rusher" and instead you audible out of it and split him out wide, now your personnel you had out there to stop the run is criminally exposed.

Or they keep guys in there to defend the pass because they expect you're trying to trick them - well now Jimmy can block and Lynch is going for 10+
 

Scottemojo

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themunn":3tohftjy said:
Scottemojo":3tohftjy said:
Using Jimmy to do that regularly would be a stupid waste of resources. You might as well tell the DC "Hey, that guy you fear you might have to double? Tie him up this play with your lesser edge rusher! Let us know what else we can do to help!"

Either you double up Jimmy and that opens up room to blast through the middle with Lynch - or you "tie him up with your lesser edge rusher" and instead you audible out of it and split him out wide, now your personnel you had out there to stop the run is criminally exposed.

Or they keep guys in there to defend the pass because they expect you're trying to trick them - well now Jimmy can block and Lynch is going for 10+
Sounds good in theory. There were a lot of times last year when due to our clock chewing nature we didn't have time to get out of certain formations at the LOS.

As for your last sentence, Jimmy can't block. Not in line anyway. Any use he gets there better be token.
 
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Hawks46

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This is from the Farrar article on the Graham trade in another thread, but it's pertinent here

"The blocking issue could be improved with more reps—according to Pro Football Focus, Graham had 27 pass-blocking snaps in 2014, 4.9% of his 547 total passing snaps"

I'm more interested in the stat than the opinion above. It could be theorized that Graham isn't all that enthused about blocking because he rarely does it. If you're doing something 27 times out of 547, you're typically not as familiar or comfortable with it, and since it's done so rarely, blocking could be a thing he doesn't see as important for him, or just something he has to do a very few times and get it out of the way.

Like Scotte said, it would be a waste of resources to match Graham up on the other team's best edge rusher like we did with Miller. I see Graham as doing more inline blocking. The deadliest part of Millers game (and really and pure TE in our system) is the PA pass, which we obviously do a lot of. Typically the TE will run block and chip the DE, then go out in a route. Against a runner like Lynch it's really difficult for a LBer to watch the TE block down and not believe it's a run. Put Graham into the equation, and you have LBers taking a couple of read steps towards the los, then trying to turn and run with a guy that's running a 4.5 and blowing down the seam. That's where I see Graham doing a ton of damage.

Pete has also said that Graham takes a ton of shots. In speaking to Graham's supposed softness, Pete was mentioning that Graham is getting drilled on literally every play. The coaching staff might try to mitigate that somewhat by limiting his blocking aorund the los. Pete has shown he's really good at managing players and I could see him trying to limit the amount of contact Graham sees in a season by not getting Graham mixed up in the line scrum.

I do think he's fully capable of pasting LBers though.
 

kearly

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Scottemojo":725ac8x5 said:
This isn't about blocking downfield. If he can't do that at his size he would be softer than 4 ply. Pete is talking about inline, which means Graham would be expected to stop edge rushers beside a tackle. At various times Seattle will ask a TE to be part of a line slide, or a bootleg, and the TE will have one on one responsibilities vs a guy like Aldon Smith or Long. Willson could not do it, one slap and they were by him, and Graham is not going to slow them down either. In the few instances you find Jimmy on an edge rusher it is pretty ugly. Him knocking a 190 lb db on his ass 10 yards from the LOS says zero about his ability to block Aldon Smith on a line slide.

It is the Lying Season before the draft. Right now Bailey is skinny, Center is taken care of by Lewis, we have enough good receivers, and Jimmy Graham will be just fine blocking anyone who gets in his way if lined up off the tackles.

The fact that the only TE we have right now who can block is the fragile McCoy or the not really a TE Gilliam means it is a big position of need. Using Jimmy to do that regularly would be a stupid waste of resources. You might as well tell the DC "Hey, that guy you fear you might have to double? Tie him up this play with your lesser edge rusher! Let us know what else we can do to help!"

Good post.

Hopefully Miller finds his way back. If he really does have an ankle problem, I hope it heals quickly. The team still needs him.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Graham can't be any worse than Willson and Helfet, so I expect Pete and Cable will work with him during OTA's and camp to make him at least an average run blocker.
 

Scottemojo

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Sgt. Largent":1kg9iuyz said:
Graham can't be any worse than Willson and Helfet, so I expect Pete and Cable will work with him during OTA's and camp to make him at least an average run blocker.
So what they have not done in two full seasons with Helfet and Willson they will magically do with Graham in a single training camp, while he learns a new offense?
 

theincrediblesok

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You know what I would like to see, put Graham as a FB, teams will think it's a Spider Y 2 Banana play only for Willson to go deep for a huge gain.
 

SomersetHawk

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Stuff wasting too much time trying to teach him how to block inline, let him run routes and stick KJ in coverage over and over again until he starts winning some. Going from Willson/Helfet to Graham should prepare us a little better for the Gronkowskis et al.

Whilst we we're actually very good against TEs in general, I think we were well down there in terms of TDs conceded by them, perhaps the worst? No doubt that's skewed by the three touchdowns that Antonio Gates scored on us while Kam was injured, but still an area that could see some improvement.
 

onanygivensunday

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SomersetHawk":e7prnm27 said:
Whilst we we're actually very good against TEs in general, I think we were well down there in terms of TDs conceded by them, perhaps the worst? No doubt that's skewed by the three touchdowns that Antonio Gates scored on us while Kam was injured, but still an area that could see some improvement.
Let's not forget that Gates and Rivers were on a different planet in that game... making ridiculous throws/ catches in extremely tight windows.

We play that game again and they will have no where near the success they had that day.

At least that's the way that I remember it.
 

JAGHAWK

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Sgt. Largent":2hm46idw said:
Graham can't be any worse than Willson and Helfet, so I expect Pete and Cable will work with him during OTA's and camp to make him at least an average run blocker.

Watching Helfet block just pains me. :34853_doh:
 

Popeyejones

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Sgt. Largent":1k0zc5k6 said:
Graham can't be any worse than Willson and Helfet, so I expect Pete and Cable will work with him during OTA's and camp to make him at least an average run blocker.

Ehh, you don't trade Unger and a 1st and take on Graham's contract with the expectation that Jimmy Graham is going to become a different player than he is.

I think they're probably already very clear at what he does, what he doesn't do, and that they want him for what he does.

Jimmy Graham doesn't block. He's a tight end in name only. It's who he is.

Personally I'd be surprised if the Seahawks went into the season without a blocking TE on their roster, and none of Graham, Wilson, or Helfet is that guy. If that's the TE depth chart in week 1 it signals bigger changes to their offensive philosophy, IMO.
 

SomersetHawk

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onanygivensunday":3n2srbla said:
SomersetHawk":3n2srbla said:
Whilst we we're actually very good against TEs in general, I think we were well down there in terms of TDs conceded by them, perhaps the worst? No doubt that's skewed by the three touchdowns that Antonio Gates scored on us while Kam was injured, but still an area that could see some improvement.
Let's not forget that Gates and Rivers were on a different planet in that game... making ridiculous throws/ catches in extremely tight windows.

We play that game again and they will have no where near the success they had that day.

At least that's the way that I remember it.

True, but it wasn't just Rivers and Gates. Tamme and Thomas scored against us for the Broncos, Escobar and Witten for the Cowboys, Kendricks for the Rams, Rivera got two for Oakland, Ertz for Philly, and of course, Gronk.
 

Rocket

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Hawks46":9vtsruw6 said:
You can give him the "want to" by getting him to realize that he can start to hit all these guys that have been hitting him back.
An interesting idea... teach the kid to smite.
Smite, smite, smite.
 

ivotuk

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blazen2392":2e0ny8b3 said:
No. People call him soft because he shied away from contact against Kam. Despite being 265 he does not use his body to punish defenders the way gronk does. He also has a tendency to dissappear from games especially when DBs are being physical with him.


Gronk disappears from a LOT of games because of his playing style causing him major injuries!

Only a fool would take Kam on. Kam is good at what he does, which is decleating offensive players. Offensive players don't spend much time learning how to take on HUGE Strong Safeties.
 

hawksurething

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blazen2392":2mft1jgl said:
No. People call him soft because he shied away from contact against Kam. Despite being 265 he does not use his body to punish defenders the way gronk does. He also has a tendency to dissappear from games especially when DBs are being physical with him.

Jimmy was smart to do that, especially with that shoulder injury :)
Look how many tough catches he made vs other hard hitters. He is tough. He was just hurt.

This is the best non-draft pick up since Lynch !!! Finally a Reciever that demands a double team that I wanted.

Now all that's left is to fix the Wideouts so Jimmy will be sure to succeed instead if Bust without help in the outside like he had in N.O. with cholston & stills. Plus cooks.
 

hawksurething

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SacHawk2.0":2e6bdbcj said:
hawksurething":2e6bdbcj said:
This is the best pick up on offense in FA since Lynch!!!

Neither of them were FA pick-ups. LMAO. Now I'M repeating myself.

During FA period. Is what Im meaning. Just trying to get my thoughts out real quick. This is why I edit so much.
 

CurryStopstheRuns

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hawksurething":265b37w9 said:
SacHawk2.0":265b37w9 said:
hawksurething":265b37w9 said:
This is the best pick up on offense in FA since Lynch!!!

Neither of them were FA pick-ups. LMAO. Now I'M repeating myself.

During FA period. Is what Im meaning. Just trying to get my thoughts out real quick. This is why I edit so much.


Lynch was traded for mid-season.
 

hawksurething

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CurryStopstheRuns":32il5sss said:
hawksurething":32il5sss said:
SacHawk2.0":32il5sss said:
hawksurething":32il5sss said:
This is the best pick up on offense in FA since Lynch!!!

Neither of them were FA pick-ups. LMAO. Now I'M repeating myself.

During FA period. Is what Im meaning. Just trying to get my thoughts out real quick. This is why I edit so much.


Lynch was traded for mid-season.

Ok my bad. Best addition not drafted. Jeesh.
 

Vancanhawksfan

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Personally, I think that a blocking tight end, along with offensive linemen and interior defensive linemen are what the Hawks are probably going to load up on in this draft. If they can pick up someone who can be a back-up developmental quarterback they might pick one up too but overall I think the offensive line and blocking tight ends are going to be their first target in the draft.

Do any of you college nerds see any blocking tight ends available this year that might be worth picking?
 
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