Harvin compensation: 6th round pick that can become a 4th

[bigtrain21]

You guys are so negative.

That's not negative. If we were talking Tate here then yeah we could say he helped greatly in getting to the dance and winning it all. That just does not hold any water with Harvin. So we gave up a lot for a little. That's just facing facts.

Are you seriously saying that you believe we do not win the Superbowl without Percy Harvin last year?

No, I'm saying we won it with him so looking at it any other way is fruitless and negative.

Do you have difficulty distinguishing between correlation and causation?

If Percy being here did not *cause* us to win it, then we may well have won it anyhow yet retained pieces like Red, Clem, and Tate who in fact did *cause* us to win it. Looking at it that way is actually rational and productive in that the next time you are on the verge of such a trade you look back on this as a mistake and it informs future behavior.

We took a shot at a physically gifted player and it didn't work out. I don't think that should stop us from taking shots at future great players. I love Red and Clem, but their production has been replaced this year since neither was a big part of the pass rush. Harvin was supposed to replace Tate' s production and it didn't work out for whatever reason. He hasn't cost us a Super Bowl and he definitely helped us ice the Super Bowl. Relax.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

We took a shot at a physically gifted player and it didn't work out. I don't think that should stop us from taking shots at future great players. I love Red and Clem, but their production has been replaced this year since neither was a big part of the pass rush. Harvin was supposed to replace Tate' s production and it didn't work out for whatever reason. He hasn't cost us a Super Bowl and he definitely helped us ice the Super Bowl. Relax.

Bingo.

 

[hawk45]

Do you have difficulty distinguishing between correlation and causation?

Not at all. But it doesn't matter here. Whether somebody believes he was an important part of what happened or not doesn't change anything. He contributed some and that's not up for debate.

You don't seem to grasp that if his contribution was minimal (it was), and we could have won it all without him (we could), that giving up a lot to get him could have been avoided, giving us the same great outcome last season but also leaving us better positioned this season with more dollars and more guys who contributed far, far more.

What is it, like a butterfly effect thing with you? Even if a guy only played a handful of plays, you remove those plays and no trophy?

In your mind, is there no difference at all between large contribution and infinitesimal contribution?

 

[Zebulon Dak]

Do you have difficulty distinguishing between correlation and causation?

Not at all. But it doesn't matter here. Whether somebody believes he was an important part of what happened or not doesn't change anything. He contributed some and that's not up for debate.

You don't seem to grasp that if his contribution was minimal (it was), and we could have won it all without him (we could), that giving up a lot to get him could have been avoided, giving us the same great outcome last season but also leaving us better positioned this season with more dollars and more guys who contributed far, far more.

What is it, like a butterfly effect thing with you? Even if a guy only played a handful of plays, you remove those plays and no trophy?

In your mind, is there no difference at all between large contribution and infinitesimal contribution?

No. It's because it doesn't matter. It's in the past and can't be changed. Unless you know of some technology I don't, fretting over things that can't be changed (especially good ones like winning the Super Bowl??) is negative and fruitless, with the exception of learning from your mistakes, as you mentioned. But we didn't make a mistake. We had nothing to do with it. So you can be mad about it if you want, what ever helps you sleep at night. I'm not and apparently for some reason that makes you even more mad. Sorry bout that bro.

 

[drdiags]

Percy caused the Broncos major issues in the SB. He was a flub as a trade transaction, but to totally dismiss his impact in the Superbowl is just trying to keep an agenda going.

We will never know, so the doubters can minimize his impact with no alternative way of knowing, He was part of a SB winning club and whether he was needed or not is all just conjecture with the pro-side at least able to point to tangible impact results.

Listen to Sherman's sideline commentary again and tell me if he thought Percy was just window dressing in that game.

 

[HansGruber]

Wow, was really hoping it could become a 2nd.

Clayton said there was no way the Seahawks would ever get a second because of the contract.

We gave up all those picks because his contract was low when we signed him. Then, we re-signed him to a new contract. The new contract killed any trade value because nobody wants to acquire large contracts.

Clayton talked about it in-depth earlier today and yesterday, and said that made the deal a really good one for the Hawks. He made it sound like Idzik got screwed.

 

[akscoundrel]

We got a good deal, both sides happy. It's a little too soon for me for that sugar. Say time for a change and leave it at that but don't ask me to swallow that everything turned out great with a straight face.

This. Sounded like somebody's butthurt.

 

[hawk45]

Percy caused the Broncos major issues in the SB. He was a flub as a trade transaction, but to totally dismiss his impact in the Superbowl is just trying to keep an agenda going.

We will never know, so the doubters can minimize his impact with no alternative way of knowing, He was part of a SB winning club and whether he was needed or not is all just conjecture with the pro-side at least able to point to tangible impact results.

Listen to Sherman's sideline commentary again and tell me if he thought Percy was just window dressing in that game.

There's a case to be made that our defense was the overwhelming factor in the championship game which minimizes the impact any one offensive player had.

Truth is his contribution in the big one was just enough that it can't utterly be dismissed, so with that I agree. But this all started with the notion that it's silly to discuss or lament what we gave up to get him because it led to the trophy. That line of argument is faulty because it asserts beyond the shadow of a doubt that our only chance to win was with him. So the conjecture lies in that direction just as much if not more.

My point here is that it's not nuts for folks say gee whiz this whiff is a body-blow to the team's future chances. Pointing at the ring and saying "sorry you shouldn't be discussing that" is horsepucky.

 

[ivotuk]

lol unreal. Man did the Vikes fleece us.

Really? I forget, did they win the Lombardi last year? Did those picks and all that money put a dagger in the Broncos heart at the beginning of the second half?

Percy helped us win the Lombardi, so as far as I'm Concerned, money well spent. And now we just cleared some cap space and a roster space.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

But this all started with the notion that it's silly to discuss or lament what we gave up to get him because it led to the trophy.

My original response was to us getting "fleeced" in the deal, which is hard for me to accept if you include the fact that we did get a Lombardi trophy. I'm not saying Percy single handedly won us the damn thing. He was a part of what happened and that's good enough for me. I'm sure the Vikings would have gladly switched places with us last season, so I can't accept it as a fleecing.

If things fall apart from here because of it then yeah, that sucks. But that hasn't happened yet and it doesn't have to.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

lol unreal. Man did the Vikes fleece us.

Really? I forget, did they win the Lombardi last year? Did those picks and all that money put a dagger in the Broncos heart at the beginning of the second half?

Percy helped us win the Lombardi, so as far as I'm Concerned, money well spent. And now we just cleared some cap space and a roster space.

Careful man. These guys are not cool with that line of thinking. Apparently draft picks are more valuable than World Championships. Who knew!

 

[RunTheBall]

lol unreal. Man did the Vikes fleece us.

Really? I forget, did they win the Lombardi last year? Did those picks and all that money put a dagger in the Broncos heart at the beginning of the second half?

Percy helped us win the Lombardi, so as far as I'm Concerned, money well spent. And now we just cleared some cap space and a roster space.

Careful man. These guys are not cool with that line of thinking. Apparently draft picks are more valuable than World Championships. Who knew!

Vikings always win in the offseason. They always get great grades on draft day. That's all that matters right?

 

[HansGruber]

yeah they fleeced us, and I've been saying it since the ink dried.

I was shocked when we went after another overrated slot guy when we've been burnt so many times on those. And Harvin was never worth that money, a fact I saw from day one.

once we had him, it was one of those deals where you just try to roll with it, but I was never sold on the guy. He was a bum from day one. as proven by his insistence on getting a session ending surgery that was unnecessary.

bum

 

[Lords of Scythia]

He did it without telling the team, too.

 

[RunTheBall]

yeah they fleeced us, and I've been saying it since the ink dried.

I was shocked when we went after another overrated slot guy when we've been burnt so many times on those. And Harvin was never worth that money, a fact I saw from day one.

once we had him, it was one of those deals where you just try to roll with it, but I was never sold on the guy. He was a bum from day one. as proven by his insistence on getting a session ending surgery that was unnecessary.

bum

Xavier Rhodes and Jerick McKinnon sure are game changers... and don't forget Travis Bond who isn't even in the league anymore! We sure got fleeced...

 

[Hawks46]

lol unreal. Man did the Vikes fleece us.

Fleeced. All we got is a stupid Lombardi, a fulfilled lifelong dream and the memories to go along with it. And they got... wait, what did they get? :229031_confused2:

Let's be honest now. The trade for Harvin contributed more to lowering the probability of a potential dynasty (by giving up a First Round pick and $18 million and saddling the team with $9 million in dead money) than it did to winning the Lombardi.

Red, Clem, Tate, it isn't a great stretch to posit that Harvin's $$$ were a factor in losing all of those guys.

Negative. Clem and Big Red were gone anyways, they were getting up in age and weren't playing up to their contracts.

Tate is probably the biggest casualty of the Harvin trade. Beside the fact that they were fighting each other, the Seahawks didn't want to sink that much money into another WR. Without Harvin's salary, we would've probably kept Tate, as we'd offer him 1-2 mil/year more and he would've taken it.

Even so, the biggest thing we miss about Tate's game are his punt returns. He was inconsistent as a WR; he'd have good games, then disappear for a game or so at a time.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

.............
Even so, the biggest thing we miss about Tate's game are his punt returns. He was inconsistent as a WR; he'd have good games, then disappear for a game or so at a time.

Completely agree.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

yeah they fleeced us, and I've been saying it since the ink dried.

I was shocked when we went after another overrated slot guy when we've been burnt so many times on those. And Harvin was never worth that money, a fact I saw from day one.

once we had him, it was one of those deals where you just try to roll with it, but I was never sold on the guy. He was a bum from day one. as proven by his insistence on getting a session ending surgery that was unnecessary.

bum

I have been waiting my entire life for the Seahawks to win a Super Bowl. I have not been waiting my entire life for the Seahawks to not give up too much for a player who will not work out long term. They've done it before, they'll do it again. Every team does. If those are the stipulations I'll take that fleecing with a shit eating grin every time.

 

[King Dog]

So frustrating when we give up a 1st 3rd and 7th for Percy Harvin and get a 4th-6th in return. Meanwhile the 49ers give up a 6th for Anquan Boldin.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

So frustrating when we give up a 1st 3rd and 7th for Percy Harvin and get a 4th-6th in return. Meanwhile the 49ers give up a 6th for Anquan Boldin.

That Boldin deal still irks me. You'll never convince me that wasn't big brother John helping out little brother Jim. It's kinda bullshit really.