How long before the 49ers let go of Jim Harbaugh?

[Marvin49]

Hey Popeye, this is coming from a guy that's not in touch with the inner workings of the SF organization:

What are the issues with Baalke and Harbaugh? Why is it being discussed so much and do you think something's got to give?

I think its getting so much play these days because everyone wants to find trouble in paradise.

That doesn't mean there is no truth to it though.

I have no doubt that there is tension there. Baalke is on the radio every week during the season and even he said there are times that there is tension but that a little tension is healthy in a competitive environment. Maybe he was just trying to make less of the situation, but the point is that he didn't deny the tension.

I have no trouble believing that Harbaugh isn't the easiest guy to work with. Walsh wasn't either. He and Eddie used to clash all the time.

The problem though is that nobody really knows what the tension is about. Money? Maybe. Personnel? Perhaps, but its not like Baalke had drafted poorly (outside of 2012). Power? Maybe? Credit for success? I highly doubt it considering how much praise Harbaugh heaps on his player and coaches.

Who knows...maybe just a personality clash.

 

[Popeyejones]

Hey Popeye, this is coming from a guy that's not in touch with the inner workings of the SF organization:

What are the issues with Baalke and Harbaugh? Why is it being discussed so much and do you think something's got to give?

FWIW this is all coming from spending a night getting drunk in a corner at a wedding with a guy who works in the 9ers FO:

Both strong personalities who like to be in charge and are difficult to get along with, Harbaugh even more so than Baalke. They're similar. They clicked instantly and really got along, but have butted heads over personnel decisions. Not more so than usual, just with greater repercussions because of their personalities. It wouldn't surprise me if Harbaugh ends up being gone in two years when his contract is up, although I think that will come down to money more than it will come down to clashing personalities. The personality thing, while true, has also been blown up by Tim Kawakami, who doesn't really know what he's talking about. As for Jed York, he is a smart guy who got bumped to the head of the line because his family owns the team. He's more than competent though, and his head and heart are both in the right place in terms of operating the franchise. He's held back by his dad still controlling the purse strings.

How big a stake does co owner Gideon Yu have in the 49ers? What are your impressions?

Good question. Don't remember talking to the guy about Yu, so I only know what has been reported. He was instrumental in moving up the timeline on the stadium opening by a year. I'm guessing this was to generate more revenue and free Jed up a bit. This guy said that Jed York wanted to match the Dolphins offer for Harbaugh but John York wouldn't sign off on it, and that they were lucky Harbaugh came anyway.

From Popeye's description, it doesn't sound like Jim H will leave due to financial constraints, as he points out the money making venture the new stadium should be.

Yeah, this is the idea, but I don't know the financials of the team. There was a lot of resentment in the Debartolo family due to Eddie's largesse. The team was bleeding money under Debartolo and he just didn't care, which pissed off John and Denise Debartolo York because it was a shared inheritance he was playing with. John York thought of his obsessive penny pinching as long needed, as the family had also lost a lot of money in the real estate downturn in the late 90s. This is all to say that the idea with the stadium was that the revenue from it would go back into the team, but I don't know how profitable the team is, or if that money will actually go back into it. It's a safer assumption, but not a locked in one.

 

[Popeyejones]

I highly doubt it considering how much praise Harbaugh heaps on his player and coaches.

Just totally guessing here, but this might be part of it. Harbaugh is really good about protecting his players in the media and heaping praise on his players in the media (often to unintended comedic effect). In doing so he also has a habit of saying that players need to be resigned, and saying that they deserve to get paid.

I don't think this is him trying to use the media to push Baalke's actions (I don't think this at all actually), but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if cheerleading for his players in this way grated on Baalke a little bit. Harbaugh's also the type of personality that would keep doing it even while knowing it grated on Baalke because it's "the right thing to do" in his mind.

 

[Sarlacc83]

From Popeye's description, it doesn't sound like Jim H will leave due to financial constraints, as he points out the money making venture the new stadium should be. I don't see Jim H being fired anytime soon unless the working environment becomes as toxic as it was here with Mike H and Bob Whitsett. I doubt on-field results from next season would be a deciding factor because unless the wheels fall off, the team should be competitive.

The NFC is going to be tougher for everybody, HFA probably comes out of the NFC North since the Lions, Bears and Vikings have some issues to overcome.

As I've been saying all along, the 49ers are about to start minting money and Harbaugh is going to get a sizable slice.

He and Baalke will likely still butt heads from time to time, but it seems to be working for them so far.

Do 49ers' fans really believe that its working well? They had two very good picks in 2011 with Kaepernick and Aldon, but if you look at the rest of their picks - they've got absolute bupkis. Now maybe it's because Harbaugh's player development sucks - at which point you have to get rid of him - or they're hiding behind strong drafts in the years prior to Harbaugh's arrival.

 

[chris98251]

We will see how their drafts are working next season, much like us they stashed players on IR and other lists to learn and recover from injuries and things, they have a RB and DT there I know.

 

[Marvin49]

From Popeye's description, it doesn't sound like Jim H will leave due to financial constraints, as he points out the money making venture the new stadium should be. I don't see Jim H being fired anytime soon unless the working environment becomes as toxic as it was here with Mike H and Bob Whitsett. I doubt on-field results from next season would be a deciding factor because unless the wheels fall off, the team should be competitive.

The NFC is going to be tougher for everybody, HFA probably comes out of the NFC North since the Lions, Bears and Vikings have some issues to overcome.

As I've been saying all along, the 49ers are about to start minting money and Harbaugh is going to get a sizable slice.

He and Baalke will likely still butt heads from time to time, but it seems to be working for them so far.

Do 49ers' fans really believe that its working well? They had two very good picks in 2011 with Kaepernick and Aldon, but if you look at the rest of their picks - they've got absolute bupkis. Now maybe it's because Harbaugh's player development sucks - at which point you have to get rid of him - or they're hiding behind strong drafts in the years prior to Harbaugh's arrival.

Ok THATS total BS.

Baalke has been leading the draft room since 2010. Don't give me any of the "he was working off McCloughans draft board" BS either because he helped build those boards to begin with and he was the one in the chair on draft day.

He selected A. Davis, Mike Iupati, and Navorro Bowman in 2010.
in 2011 in addition to Kaep and Aldon he selected Culliver (who will probably start this year and would likely have started last year if not for the torn ACL), Hunter (primary backup to Gore), Kilgore (will likely start at Center this year) and Pro Bowl alternate Fullback Bruce Miller.
In 2012, so much attention goes to the miss on AJ Jenkins, but James has been good in limited opportunities. How was Christine Michael this year? You don't know because he has Lynch and Turbin ahead of him. Same situation in SF with Gore and Hunter ahead of James. They also traded a number of 2012 picks into 2013 because they didn't have roster spots for the picks they had. 4th rounder Looney was redshirted in 2012 and looked good in limited action this past year. Their 5th round pick tore his ACL TWICE now in consecutive seasons in camp.
Eric Reid was a starter from last year and a Pro Bowl alternate. Tank Carradine was never going to make an impact last year because he was drafted injured. Same with Marcus Lattimore. Vance McDonald played most of the season mostly blocking and learning the offense. Patton looked very good when he had a chance but spent most of the season injured with a broken foot.

What the hell are you talking about? If I said the Seattle 2013 draft produced nothing you would think I was on crack. That's exactly what your comment sounds like.

 

[Marvin49]

We will see how their drafts are working next season, much like us they stashed players on IR and other lists to learn and recover from injuries and things, they have a RB and DT there I know.

DE actually, Tank Carradine. Also DE Quinton Dial and OT Luke Marquardt (not sure on spelling there...that's a tough one).

Both Carradine and Lattimore were projected 1st round picks prior to injury, but you know how that goes. You never know where they might have actually ended up had they gone through the process.

 

[RedAlice]

Have to agree with Marvin on this post. I have started to remember my long old-time Niner hate because of the reaction I see from their fans about the Seahawks winning this year.

But he is right here. The Niners have not had to play their rookie drafts as starters, so we do not know yet. I think Lattimore will be good. Eric Reid already is.

Can't honestly judge all the pics yet.

 

[Laloosh]

Watch out, guys... Marvin is getting angry!

 

[Marvin49]

Have to agree with Marvin on this post. I have started to remember my long old-time Niner hate because of the reaction I see from their fans about the Seahawks winning this year.

But he is right here. The Niners have not had to play their rookie drafts as starters, so we do not know yet. I think Lattimore will be good. Eric Reid already is.

Can't honestly judge all the pics yet.

Thank You.

Some of those guys are playing behind quality starters.

Hunter and James have Gore in front of them. Culliver had Rogers in front of him (although if Culliver doesn't get hurt Rogers probably wouldn't have made the team THIS year). Kilgore and Looney are depth behind possibly the best O-Line in football. Jonathan Goodwin likely won't be back so Kilgore likely steps in as starter there.

BTW, I don't like Sam Bradford, but the Rams are scary. 2 first rounders this year with all the talent they already have...yikes

 

[Marvin49]

Watch out, guys... Marvin is getting angry!

hehehe

My BS detector just went on overdrive, that's all.

 

[kearly]

Baalke doesn't get a whole lot more credit for any of those pre-2011 picks than any other assistant in that FO. Everyone, scouts, coaches, assistants, they all give input that helps build a consensus draft board. His voice was just one of many that contributed. In the end, it is the GM who makes the call after considering this consensus information. So I wouldn't give Baalke a very big slice of the credit before 2011.

Baalke and his boss were there for years before Harbaugh showed up, and the 49ers stunk during those years in a terrible division. It's not because they sucked at their jobs, it's because drafting good players is meaningless if you don't have the right coach to develop them and put them in position to succeed.

I don't think Baalke is a terrible GM, but I do think there might be a connection between his friction with Harbaugh and there being a lack of success with their last two draft classes. Maybe this is just a redshirt effect and we'll see some stars emerge over the next couple years. But it's also possible that these guys sometimes don't see eye to eye and Baalke is drafting his guys instead of always getting the guys Harbaugh wants. I'm not saying either one is definitely true, but I'm keeping a close eye on that situation.

 

[Marvin49]

Baalke doesn't get a whole lot more credit for any of those pre-2011 picks than any other assistant in that FO. Everyone, scouts, coaches, assistants, they all give input that helps build a consensus draft board. His voice was just one of many that contributed. In the end, it is the GM who makes the call after considering this consensus information. So I wouldn't give Baalke a very big slice of the credit before 2011.

Baalke and his boss were there for years before Harbaugh showed up, and the 49ers stunk during those years in a terrible division. It's not because they sucked at their jobs, it's because drafting good players is meaningless if you don't have the right coach to develop them and put them in position to succeed.

I don't think Baalke is a terrible GM, but I do think there might be a connection between his friction with Harbaugh and there being a lack of success with their last two draft classes. Maybe this is just a redshirt effect and we'll see some stars emerge over the next couple years. But it's also possible that these guys sometimes don't see eye to eye and Baalke is drafting his guys instead of always getting the guys Harbaugh wants. I'm not saying either one is definitely true, but I'm keeping a close eye on that situation.

Why don't you give him credit for 2010? He was the acting GM. McCloughan was out.

I also don't see this "lack of success in their last 2 draft classes". You can argue 2012, but even then they traded a number of their picks into 2013. There is a reason they at one point had 13 selections. AJ Jenkins was a huge miss, but it ain't like McCloughan never missed. Kentwan Balmer anyone?

Eric Reid was damn good. Tank was redshirted. Vance looked very promising. Lemonier looked good when Aldon was out. Patton looked good when he got back from injury. Lattimore was redshirted. Where is this lack of success in 2013 come from? Did Seattle have a lack of success last year? No, they didn't need them this year.

Not understanding this logic.

 

[RedAlice]

Have to agree with Marvin on this post. I have started to remember my long old-time Niner hate because of the reaction I see from their fans about the Seahawks winning this year.

But he is right here. The Niners have not had to play their rookie drafts as starters, so we do not know yet. I think Lattimore will be good. Eric Reid already is.

Can't honestly judge all the pics yet.

Thank You.

Some of those guys are playing behind quality starters.

Hunter and James have Gore in front of them. Culliver had Rogers in front of him (although if Culliver doesn't get hurt Rogers probably wouldn't have made the team THIS year). Kilgore and Looney are depth behind possibly the best O-Line in football. Jonathan Goodwin likely won't be back so Kilgore likely steps in as starter there.

BTW, I don't like Sam Bradford, but the Rams are scary. 2 first rounders this year with all the talent they already have...yikes

I can't go into the depth you can on your draft picks behind your starters. But, I am very aware that they are there, and that they are developing without having to be starters.

Rams don't have that luxury. Our draft picks get judged immediately their first year. Look at Quick, yes he is not so good yet. Maybe he will be, maybe he won't. But boy was put front and center the first time he suited up. And probably needs time to develop given he is from a small college.

and btw, I don't like Bradford either. He probably also should have been drafted like Rodgers was to learn behind someone. So, maybe he does become something. Who knows. Year five here we go.....I will be as happy as any Rams' fan if he suddenly shows up this year.

And, you should be scared of the Rams. This year even with B, I think the draft picks will ignore the QB position and make the D and Oline something you should be very afraid of.

 

[Marvin49]

Have to agree with Marvin on this post. I have started to remember my long old-time Niner hate because of the reaction I see from their fans about the Seahawks winning this year.

But he is right here. The Niners have not had to play their rookie drafts as starters, so we do not know yet. I think Lattimore will be good. Eric Reid already is.

Can't honestly judge all the pics yet.

Thank You.

Some of those guys are playing behind quality starters.

Hunter and James have Gore in front of them. Culliver had Rogers in front of him (although if Culliver doesn't get hurt Rogers probably wouldn't have made the team THIS year). Kilgore and Looney are depth behind possibly the best O-Line in football. Jonathan Goodwin likely won't be back so Kilgore likely steps in as starter there.

BTW, I don't like Sam Bradford, but the Rams are scary. 2 first rounders this year with all the talent they already have...yikes

I can't go into the depth you can on your draft picks behind your starters. But, I am very aware that they are there, and that they are developing without having to be starters.

Rams don't have that luxury. Our draft picks get judged immediately their first year. Look at Quick, yes he is not so good yet. Maybe he will be, maybe he won't. But boy was put front and center the first time he suited up. And probably needs time to develop given he is from a small college.

and btw, I don't like Bradford either. He probably also should have been drafted like Rodgers was to learn behind someone. So, maybe he does become something. Who knows. Year five here we go.....I will be as happy as any Rams' fan if he suddenly shows up this year.

And, you should be scared of the Rams. This year even with B, I think the draft picks will ignore the QB position and make the D and Oline something you should be very afraid of.

It wasn't that long ago that the 49ers were in that same "start them now" position. Being able to draft for depth is a relatively new thing.

My prob with Bradford is that he just reminds me way too much of Alex Smith. I liked Alex, but I knew he was never going to develop into anything more than we were getting.

 

[RedAlice]

My prob with Bradford is that he just reminds me way too much of Alex Smith. I liked Alex, but I knew he was never going to develop into anything more than we were getting.

Is like saying blue or turquoise.

So far, B is just a sometimes decent manager who looks good when those around him look good.

He can be super accurate and rack up some stats, yes. No doubt and the lovers can support that with their numbers.

As a leader? NO. Clemens came in and LEAD with much less talent. I think for the Rams in general, it was perfect that Clemens came in and showed them leadership. It made the team better. Maybe it made B better to watch him.

Leadership is something that exists, that is obvious and that the stats drones cannot state or define with their numbers. Alex does not have it, I agree. B does not so far.