How the Hawks finally got the draft right again...

toffee

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An interesting read from USAtoday, about how John and Pete finally hit a homerun after years of poor drafting history. It turned out that these two were under pressure and stress from none other than Mother Jody, who not only put pressure on her football brains, she got herself involved too. I remember Jody was the draft war room and very active.

Jody was in on the trading of Wilson, may be she was the one that pushed Pete over to accept the trade? https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/seahawks-draft-pete-carroll-john-schneider-tariq-woolen/
Allen wasn’t calling the shots in a Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder sense — it could better be said that she was involved in the draft as an overall steward. Perhaps this was to help keep Carroll and Schneider away from their own more impulsive tendencies, and on the track of picking the best available players, as opposed to getting cute and seeing how much smarter than the rest of the NFL they were.

“This is another chat we had with her,” Carroll said of Allen as the draft wrapped up. “She was great and she had fun. She was in it. She was competing and she wanted to know about who you maybe trading for, and the whole thing, she was on it. So she’s really amazing.”
 
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Hollandhawk

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Had to stop reading after they said that Penny and Brooks were not first round talents. They obviously were after seeing them play. So many people cling to their predicted draft position.
Yeah, it always annoys me when people talk about how terrible the Seahawks drafted. When compared to other teams their drafts were average.
 

Rock_the_Hawk

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Self evaluation... hard to do honestly. Very interesting how that draft went in the war room...
 

Maelstrom787

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I'm not all-in on the idea that bringing a middle-aged, football-novice owner into the draft room swayed the football decisions that were made in that room. I think she was simply stepping up and trying to take an active interest in the team after a trade that altered the face of her biggest asset.

They have a blueprint, and its similar to what they followed in 2010. Shore up the premium rock spot of LT with the most premium asset, and go get the hungriest, freakiest dudes elsewhere who have chips on their shoulder. They weren't trying to draft specific role players with non-premium draft spots like before - they were building a new core.
 

Mick063

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I don't see a "nice read" I see backhanded compliments. I see grudging concessions.

Let's just get it out in the open here. The Seahawks were hamstrung by one player. The salary cap demands that any given player must play at the level of his contract. The bigger the contract, the greater burden that player must carry. The Seahawks had a defense led by a Hall of Fame middle linebacker that was predictably worn out by halftime from incessant first half "three and outs". They spent too much time on the field, and over time, it incrementally soured the entire building's aura. The entire decade was a slow process of degradation despite the fact that the team was consistently winning games. Good enough to be in the hunt, but never good enough to get over the hump.

All of which inevitably led to......

For nearly an entire decade, the Seahawk organization consistently picked in the second half of the first round because they consistently won enough games to entrench them there. Further, you can't base a decade of player evaluation upon recency bias. Despite some failures (that EVERY team endures) and even when the top of the draft didn't pan out, there was a Chis Carson, or Poona Ford, or Damien Lewis, or Colby Parkinson drafted/acquired in later rounds that proved merit. In other words, players that were equal to their salary. The cap isn't big enough to have a star at every position. In the end, you have to have a roster comprised mostly of affordable players whose play is worth their contract, and this is an entirely different animal than merely declaring if a given player is "good" or "bad".

The root cause of the perception problem begins with the "instant analysis" folks that pass final judgment on a given player based entirely upon their rookie season. Or even worse, when a given pick doesn't align with some internet pundit's prediction before that player even arrives for his first camp. Which is followed by the "grass roots" message board campaign to call that pick a failure before the player even has a chance to prove himself.

The real truth is this. You cannot adequately evaluate a draft until at least two years afterwards. You can't fully evaluate a player until he has had at least two seasons under his belt. The common standard used to be three, but collective bargaining salary requirements combined with the salary cap have shortened that time span to two years. Players have to be thrown into the fire a year sooner than they were a couple decades ago because the veteran minimum salary escalations impact the "worth his contract" equation sooner. <edit added> In other words, a return on the initial investment must be realized before the collective bargaining agreement mandated four-year rookie contract has halfway expired. The net effect of this, however, has been a dilution to the overall quality of the game.

I despise cherry picked statistics from self-perceived "experts" that imply they could do so much better. Heck, even the very bright and rightfully respected Mike Mayak is discovering that this isn't an exact science. Put Mel Kiper in his place and you would see similar (likely worse) results. Take all of the fore mentioned points into consideration when you embark on this "nice read" written by a no name author for "USA TODAY" who happens to have zero credentials.
 
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AgentDib

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Perhaps this was to help keep Carroll and Schneider away from their own more impulsive tendencies, and on the track of picking the best available players, as opposed to getting cute and seeing how much smarter than the rest of the NFL they were.
I'd wager a lot that Jodie said nothing along those lines whatsoever, as it doesn't even make sense as a comment coming from an owner. "Hey, just want to remind you guys that you're not that smart and should focus on achieving small manageable goals."

As others have said, the Hawks have been drafting fine over the years if you control for draft capital. We've just had very little of it, and that has been partly their fault so some criticism has been warranted. Trading Russ just gave them a bunch of draft capital this year for the first time since 2012 and reduced the pressure that had been building up from trying to make things work with Russ.
 

BASF

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I'd wager a lot that Jodie said nothing along those lines whatsoever, as it doesn't even make sense as a comment coming from an owner. "Hey, just want to remind you guys that you're not that smart and should focus on achieving small manageable goals."

As others have said, the Hawks have been drafting fine over the years if you control for draft capital. We've just had very little of it, and that has been partly their fault so some criticism has been warranted. Trading Russ just gave them a bunch of draft capital this year for the first time since 2012 and reduced the pressure that had been building up from trying to make things work with Russ.
Jody please. We don't need to give any more credence to a certain posters inanity.
 

PlinytheCenter

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An interesting read from USAtoday, about how John and Pete finally hit a homerun after years of poor drafting history. It turned out that these two were under pressure and stress from none other than Mother Jody, who not only put pressure on her football brains, she got herself involved too. I remember Jody was the draft war room and very active.

Jody was in on the trading of Wilson, may be she was the one that pushed Pete over to accept the trade? https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/seahawks-draft-pete-carroll-john-schneider-tariq-woolen/
They just didn't get it right, they CRUSHED it. Historic haul. Bookend tackles, the makings of the next LOB, and Griffin is going to be something special. Even better, we have another great opportunity in next year's draft. I suspect that we may get a top 5 pick from Denver as well. Russ can go sell shirts or whatever; I think he's done.
 
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hoxrox

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I'm sure Jody didn't have any influence on the actual draft picks, but there were rumblings that she was "unhappy" last year. That she was involved, and present in the draft room, asking Pete and John questions about the selection process, probably put some pressure on them to carefully evaluate and make better decisions.
 
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AgentDib

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I'm sure Jody didn't have any influence on the actual draft picks, but there were rumblings that she was "unhappy" last year. That she was involved, and present in the draft room, asking Pete and John questions about the selection process, probably put some pressure on them to carefully evaluate and make better decisions.
I'm sure she wanted to check on the investment, make sure they had a plan they seemed confident in, and put in an appearance on camera to dispel notions of her being an absentee owner.

Do you really think the FO was not being careful in their evaluations last year and that led to worse decisions? That doesn't fit the FO I've been following who have bad outcomes at times but are always clearly putting the work in.
 

5thgen

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Hard to believe she had input in our draft. You guys giving her too much credit.
 

sdog1981

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The most obvious thing they did this year was draft players that they expected to start. From 2013 to 2017 a lot of the picks were "cute" picks of players with high upside that could complement what the team already had.
 

hoxrox

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I'm sure she wanted to check on the investment, make sure they had a plan they seemed confident in, and put in an appearance on camera to dispel notions of her being an absentee owner.

Do you really think the FO was not being careful in their evaluations last year and that led to worse decisions? That doesn't fit the FO I've been following who have bad outcomes at times but are always clearly putting the work in.
I felt like they could have handled 2021 draft better. WR3 may have been a need but Eskridge was clearly not the best player at that spot. I wanted to defend this pick too because I was hoping he could turn out to be a Harvin type weapon in the offense. So far, he's showed poor route running, poor hands and a questionable understanding of the offense.

Shortly after that draft, Carroll was asked how he intended to use Eskridge in the offense, and he couldn't provide a clear answer. Perhaps he simply deferred to John and scouts on that pick. But this indicated to me that the evaluation was not careful.

If it was, perhaps they would have selected Humphrey instead, who is showing he is a legitimate franchise center. Maybe Waldron and Dickerson had their eye on Blythe (who is doing well), but is Blythe a franchise center for years to come?

That's just one example where they could have had better evaluation on the prospects.

They fully redeemed themselves in this 2022 draft.
 

Lagartixa

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They just didn't get it right, they CRUSHED it. Historic haul. Bookend tackles, the makings of the next LOB, and Griffin is going to be something special. Even better, we have another great opportunity in next year's draft. I suspect that we may get a top 5 pick from Denver as well. Russ can go sell shirts or whatever; I think he's done.

Who is Griffin? I looked at the Seahawks roster in alphabetical order by last name, and there's nobody between Goodwin and Harris.
 

AgentDib

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I felt like they could have handled 2021 draft better. WR3 may have been a need but Eskridge was clearly not the best player at that spot. I wanted to defend this pick too because I was hoping he could turn out to be a Harvin type weapon in the offense. So far, he's showed poor route running, poor hands and a questionable understanding of the offense.
Eskridge hasn't been great but 2021 is a prime example of why it's important to look at draft capital. We only spent a late 2nd, 4th and 6th which was dead last in the NFL in terms of value. As a comparison, the 49ers invested 6.2x more than we did on the draft (747 points vs. our 120 points).

Our return so far on those three picks is three players who are still on the roster the following year. Eskridge and Forsythe are contributors while still mostly question marks, and Tre Brown looked like a pro bowler but then got hurt. Thus far it looks like an outstanding return for 120 points of draft value.

The real problem IMO is that we only had those 120 points to work with. We were going too all-in every year trying to make it work with Russ and the Jamal Adams trade was only the most visible symptom of that issue.
 
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