How to evaluate John Schneider?

[Sgt. Largent]

2018 was nice !

Is this a joke? The first two picks are non-factor disappointments and the third is a walking injury.

How can you hold a GM accountable for injuries, unless there was an injury history to begin with.......of which there was none. In fact, one of the biggest reasons we drafted Penny over guys like Guice and Michel was he was very durable at SD State.

And you're leaving out all the great later round picks in 2018. Flowers, Dickson, Griffin and Jones. All contributors.

As someone who lived through the Mueller, Whitsitt, Ferguson and Ruskell eras, it doesn't get any better than Pete and John's relationship, and how well they've drafted and acquired impact players.

And if you don't agree, just fire Schneider and see how many teams pull a hamstring throwing as much money at him as possible to come to their organization.

 

[chris98251]

Well the Packers have tried twice now to bait him to come back to Green Bay and that's while he is still our GM. I can think of about 30 other teams that would love to have our draft success being so low in the draft process every year and how good we have been with late rounders and Free Agents. That success alone allows a lot of Free Agent signings because guys like Ford, Baldwin, Kearse, Carson and many others are really inexpensive to have on your roster for three or more years till they show continued success and build their resume in the leagues eyes.

Get rid of Schneider and you open Pandora's Box, Pete doesn't have the inside track on guys anymore from his college days and it really is Johns ball game when it comes to the draft and Free Agency now.

 

[Largent80]

When you draft at the end of the first round you are essentially getting what is perceived to be a 2nd round pick.

The REASON they pick at the end IS BECAUSE OF THE SUCCESS THEY HAVE.

Enjoy success. No evaluation needed if you have it. This team is BLESSED to have John Schneider.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Exactly. 8 trips to the playoffs in 10 seasons, two Superb Owl trips, a title etc. We have it very good here. It's extremely difficult to keep a consistently winning team in this age of free agency.

 

[Appyhawk]

Bingo Largent. The OP example starts at 2013 which is pretty much the beginning of our run of very low rank in first round selection. That is why Schneider and Carroll believe they can get greater value trading down for additional picks later. They have proven very adept at that ploy combined with FA pickups. Kind of hard to see that situation changing any time soon. The good thing is O Linemen usually don't go that high in the draft, so we should be able to score some help at that position. We definitely need help at center if Britt isn't back in good health, and we need another superior DE to go with Clowney...hoping we get Clowney back in good health. Really, we need help all across both lines.
Good defensive players, particularly DEs and CBs, have become highly sought after ever since our big SB win over Peyton and Denver's record setting offense with our LOB. So picking late makes defense a little tougher to navigate.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The sad thing is that I honestly think that a lot of Hawks fans blame John and Pete, even if a player gets injured. Blasting a front office and acting like they are supposed to predict injuries is laughable.

 

[Seymour]

The failure of early round picks have caused the overall decline that we have witnessed over the last several years. Late round finds, trades, FA signings have kept them above water

Out of the 21 players you listed, only 2 (Lockett and DK ) are worth big deals and are among league leaders at their positions.

IMO, front office is over valuing intangibles in the early rounds and passing on guys with proven ability. This goes all the way back to Bruce Irvin

If they do an honest retrospective they would adjust their philosophy in the early rounds but I am not sure it is in their DNA

Great post. 100% agree.

 

[Largent80]

If Hawker D was GM, where would we be now? I'm thinking out of the playoffs and looking forward to the draft.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The failure of early round picks have caused the overall decline that we have witnessed over the last several years. Late round finds, trades, FA signings have kept them above water

Out of the 21 players you listed, only 2 (Lockett and DK ) are worth big deals and are among league leaders at their positions.

IMO, front office is over valuing intangibles in the early rounds and passing on guys with proven ability. This goes all the way back to Bruce Irvin

If they do an honest retrospective they would adjust their philosophy in the early rounds but I am not sure it is in their DNA

Great post. 100% agree.

How would you two change the late round philosophy? Trade up and lose more chances at later round selections, that typically John and Pete do VERY well in selecting?

If you look at all the late first round picks, most teams don't have a high hit rate. That's the nature of the bottom of the first round, and why those players AREN'T top 15-20 picks, they usually have either health, physical limitations or personality issues.

 

[Largent80]

These guys Seymour/ HawkerD... have zero ways to "fix" the team via the draft or F.A.. Our F.O. has been awesome for the most part. Compare to all the other teams. Take a look at Cleveland. Everyone had them penciled in as possible champions this year.

They sucked.

Look at teams like the Jets and Miami, always sucking. We are absolutely BLESSED to have the Pete/John connection.

 

[SanDiego49er]

I think your GM is good. Your roster has a lot of good players and a lot of speed on the field. You are competitive year after year. That's all you can ask for. They do the same thing on the 49ersWebzone. Micro analyze every single pick and look for any misses. No GM in the league has no misses. I think overall he provides you with a lot of good players at a lot of positions. And it shows. You have a good team. He is better than a lot of GM's. I can tell you that. Some teams have some real loser GM's that will cause you to lose for 10 years in a row. Be glad he is not that bad because some fans actually have that.

 

[SanDiego49er]

These guys Seymour/ HawkerD... have zero ways to "fix" the team via the draft or F.A.. Our F.O. has been awesome for the most part. Compare to all the other teams. Take a look at Cleveland. Everyone had them penciled in as possible champions this year.

They sucked.

Look at teams like the Jets and Miami, always sucking. We are absolutely BLESSED to have the Pete/John connection.

I agree. There is no reason to be unhappy. You are competitive year after year. That's all you can ask for.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Let's start with the good:

- Very good at finding rotational and role players at all rounds of the draft. Not a whole lot of worthless players.

- Made some good trades recently, Brown, Clark, Diggs, Clowney are all fantastic, and high value trades.

- Good at finding high value players that fit in free agency.

- Lockstep with HC and vision for the team.

- Good value in later rounds.

Now for the bad:

- Bad value in the first round. He has a philosophy of drafting for biggest need above all else in the first round. Collier wasn't even graded very high on our board but they saw him as the best DE available. Unfortunately this meant we passed on some really good talent.

- Poor trades in the past Harvin and Graham set the franchise back pretty far, though lately he's been killing it with trades.

- Has not been able to put together a cohesive D-Line for awhile now, despite the considerable draft capital we've spent. Since 2016 our D-Line has not been great at pass rush nor has it been good at stopping the run. This area has had the steepest decline.

- has always struggled to put together an offensive line, though Cable is gone and we haven't drafted many lineman since.

Overall? He has actually done a much better job on offense lately. Will Dissly, D.K Metcalf, Tyler Lockett, and Chris Carson were some huge grabs. If we get the line shored up this offense has some huge potential, especially if we find a good role player at WR. These are all players we can potentially build around.

Unfortunately on defense we've had a rough go particularly on defensive line it is a different story. He's not bad, but I wouldn't call him the unquestioned god that he was from around 2012-2015. Lots of weird valuations on players and strange moves. We've also passed up some very good players only to overdraft a player.

With Schneider we've had a lot of highs and lows, though I'm not exactly sure how much of our drafting is Schneider exactly. Pete Carroll has the final say on everything and he is heavily involved in every player acquisition. I think that our next draft/offseason will really set the stage for the type of team we're going to be in the later half of Pete's current contract.

 

[MO Hawk]

My OP intent was to ask the question about how we evaluate him. I would not at all advocate replacing him as it would be very hard to find someone better. What he did with this year's draft in terms of getting more picks was amazing!

in 2012, Pete was still pretty close to his college coaching days at SC and I would guess that knowledge helped him tremendously, especially with guys like Richard Sherman who he played against at SC.

My question is, "Should we trade down all our 1st and 2nd round picks (where Schneider and Caroll have not done as well) into more 3rd or later round picks where they seem to excel?

I would add that just because we ask the question of holding them to a high standard and to continuous improvement (which they do for each player on the roster), it doesn't mean I think he should go. In fact, as of now, just the opposite.

So in summary: Keep Schneider, do better in 1 & 2nd round OR trade them down for more picks.

 

[Jville]

John Schneider has been clear and consistent about his drafting approach over the years. While the fascination of the media and it's captive viewers focus on promoted collegians and the early picks of a draft, John's goal has been and is to deliver the best net overall draft in support of producing great Seahawks team building competition in July and August.

Some fans follow the media while others follow John's lead. The result is two separate groups with very different orientations. Many understand what John is doing. While others are caught up in media indoctrination and become prone to critically voicing the differences.

We see the same thing in player grading. The Seahawks have their own internal grading system that reflect who they are. While the criteria and purpose (entertainment) of media grading systems is quite different. It's common for media subscribers to get a little noisy about perceived differences between media and team.

I think there is a real comfort to be realized in making the effort to understand John Schneider and the rest of the Seahawks staff ..... and how that differs from the goal of entertainment media.

 

[UK_Seahawk]

I evaluate him by how frustrated I am at him getting overlooked for GM of the year by some geezer that has a flash in the pan one off season.

 

[Mad Dog]

I think keeping a team averaging 10 wins a season for 10 years is mighty impressive feat.

You either have to give credit to Pete's amazing coaching or John's amazing team building. You can't criticize both and be credible.

In truth it's more likely that the success of the team has a little to do with both guys being above average and also having a good QB (which John drafted in the 3rd freaking round).

I think what John recognizes more than the fan base is that the draft is a crap shoot and having more tickets in the lottery is more valuable than having really high picks.

If you can bring more guys in, you can get those Chris Carsons, Poona Fords, Tre Flowers type guys that exceed their draft grade. That allows you to take big swings on first round guys and not falter.

I think John will be the first to tell you that the 2012 draft was a lot of good fortune. Many a team ascends based on one or two good drafts where they hit on more than your normal share of players. NO is currently riding their excellent 2016-2017 drafts. But their drafts previous and after have been very middling. It's just how the system works. I think Pete and John recognize this and most fans don't. Most fans think drafting college players is like drafting their fantasy team.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Do other team's GM's dress up as Hobbit auto mechanics to travel to playoff games? I don't think so!!

 

[beastalamode]

I still have nightmares of us trading down when we could have drafted Budda, the dream immediately changes to me getting in an atv wreck then I wake up in a cold sweat.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

My OP intent was to ask the question about how we evaluate him. I would not at all advocate replacing him as it would be very hard to find someone better. What he did with this year's draft in terms of getting more picks was amazing!

The problem with trying to evaluate him is it is too difficult. My reason would be due to the fact that it is his job to find the personnel to mold into the proper talent for the position. After he acquires that person/talent, it is the next person in line's job to mold him/her into what they need for that position. Coaching is the next person in line, be it the med tech lady, the waterboy, or the punter.

So in effect how you acquire personnel thru the method of looking at build, technical aspects, educational knowledge, and skills on the little field. They look for specific talent thru specifications such as a windows 8 or windows 8.1 and see if the processor is working properly for the needs of all the applications. Safety...over 6 foot, speed, cone drill. That is all you get to assess his capability. Now coaching takes over and if he does not have it, dump him. JS says I gave you what you wanted and now you have to mold it to what you want. I am off to look into my crystal ball for another player that you told me you wanted now.

The amount of roster turnover we have thru the year is a key to how to evaluate him. If the team sits on its players that it has and does nothing to improve itself/stagnates, then they are probably not doing due diligence thru the season. Bring in guys to the practice squad that can be an improvement if we seem to be missing a link and train them up in our system to backup what we are weak in. They look at what the team is doing as far as defense and offense and see if there is a better option available. There are always other players out there that want a chance, and we have given it to some. We create a great working environment with a proper attitude and people want to come here to work. You dont see a lot of that in the NFL.

Sorry if I got long on tooth here...but things just happened. Have a great day.