I dont understand Bevell...

[pehawk]

OC calls 60 plays of viable offense with below average talent. Calls one play people don't like. Off with his head.

It wasn't just one play. This is an accumulation of frustration at ineptitude. Why so many empty sets against a team with quality edge rushers? Why not bring in Gilliam in a jumbo package to help as a blocker? Why the pathetic bubble screen check down option on 3rd downs? That 4th and goal was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Excuse DavidSeven, he didn't actually read the thread. He rushed in like a 14yo boy getting ready to sleep with his old babysitter.

 

[DavidSeven]

Eh, I read it. I just saw it as typical reactionary stuff. Not necessarily without merit as to those plays, but still. Folks focus on a handful of plays that didn't work versus a bunch that did. No culpability given to the D-coordinator because run fits are a lot harder to analyze than run vs. pass decisions. Fact is, Quinn probably called a worse game than Bev and had more talent at his disposal.

 

[OkieHawk]

I'm not saying that you don't bring up valid points, but what does beating this dead horse accomplish really? You get mad when people do this with other points, but then go ape shit with the Bevell thing. Nothing we say or do on here will change the fact that he is currently the OC. If you want to vent then fine, but seriously calm down man, you'll give yourself a stroke over something that you have absolutely no control over.

 

[pehawk]

Eh, I read it. I just saw it as typical reactionary stuff. Not necessarily without merit to those plays, but still. Folks focus on a handful of plays that didn't work versus a bunch that did. No culpability given to the D-coordinator because run fits are a lot harder to analyze than run vs. pass decisions. Fact is, Quinn probably called a worse game than Bev and had more talent at his disposal.

Most football games come down to a handful of plays, that's why they call it game of inches. And, if you think my critique of Bevell's situational gamecalling is new or reactionary, well, lets just say you have nothing to add then.

I'm going to give Quinn a pass and a few weeks to adjust to like without Bane. He dictates almost everything they do out of a base defense.

Some people actually think out and give reasoned and consistent critiques, DavidSeven.

 

[Ozzy]

FWIW I didn't like the fade either. Then again I rarely like a fade... unless it works, of course.

Calling a fade with a slot receiver is laughable. You call a fade with tall physical receivers who can out position the defender. A jump timing type route with Baldwin is stupid that situation.

I've been a supporter of Bevell in the past but man its tough to defend him at times. The empty backfield on the first drive of the game(third down), the fade to Baldwin etc. He is really good at times too. I'm not sure what to think. I'm not as opposed to the idea as I was before though.

 

[pehawk]

I'm not saying that you don't bring up valid points, but what does beating this dead horse accomplish really? You get mad when people do this with other points, but then go ape shit with the Bevell thing. Nothing we say or do on here will change the fact that he is currently the OC. If you want to vent then fine, but seriously calm down man, you'll give yourself a stroke over something that you have absolutely no control over.

How am I going ape shit? I actually want to hear opposing viewpoints. Kind of why I like this place, I don't and cant learn without an opposing view point.

And no, I go ape shit over people dragging topics into threads unrelated to the OP. And I go ape shit over people coming in, without context, and throwing out conventional wisdom tidbits.

So, I shouldn't have started a thread? I'm confused.

 

[kearly]

I would normally agree with DavidSeven in 90% of threads like these, but I think Pehawk is mostly correct in his criticisms. And not reactionary, IMO.

 

[olyfan63]

So blame the coaches. It was a hard fought game that we lost, why is that on anyone? We came up short only 4 points?

Because YOU would have run this play here or there?

Sorry, but I'll trust the coaches. Ultimately the players need to make the plays.

No one runs a fade on 4th and 1, it's incredibly stupid looking at the odds of the play.

I honestly don't have a problem with a fade pattern. I do have a problem with running a fade pattern with the shortest WR on the team.

^^ THIS. Why a *FADE* to Baldwin, at 5'10 or whatever? That's not his strength. Willson, Moeki, anybody bigger bodied, maybe.

I've defended Bevell in the past, and he has designed some great plays, but he called a crap game on the critical game-changing plays. Why not use the strengths of your players?

 

[Diezel Dawg]

The reason the Hawks lost today, was Run defense!!!! Period. The defense got bullied and gashed all day. Why aren't we talking about that?? What about the dropped TD pass by Kearse? You gotta catch those. Period.

 

[rastahawk]

Honest Question

What about the fade to Moeaki? Wasn't that a similair play but to the other side?

How come we aren't pissed we didn't feed the beast on that play?

I tend to agree with Pe, but the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

The fade to Maoki, wasn't really a true fade. Wilson saw him come open, the fade is a throw to a spot and timing.

This also illustrates my underlying issue with this offense. It seems on most pass plays (other than those horrible bubble screens), Wilson has to improvise to get a big completion. There's rarely any moments where we get a quick well designed completion. It kind of feels like our passing game is running on improvisation rather than an effective passing scheme.

 

[seedhawk]

Pe, no one understands Bevell. It's his major attraction. Seriously, how do you game plan against someone so all over the map even he doesn't grasp why he calls the plays he calls? Understand now? :mrgreen:

And, on the endzone pass to Baldwin, it sure looked like a classic rub route to me and the KC DB's did a fine switch off. Crap happens.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Outside of the running game, this team has no reliable strength to turn to. The receiver are not playmakers. Average at best and even worst with the tight ends. We really never know what Wilson will do next. His biggest strength is playing backyard football. Just as likely to miss an open receiver on a slant as he is running around for 5 seconds and then throw a TD. Good luck calling plays for that. Then Unger goes out of the game? There's not a dependable go to play on the play sheet most the time because the team is so inconsistent.

 

[pehawk]

One I forgot to mention but others have; Bevell forfeited the first drive. 2 throws, one of them out of an empty set. Just, why?

This team is built to go three and out with a cloud of dust. You'll never hear me rip Bevell then.

For the record, and for accusations I'm being reactionary, I never understood the hire. Just give it to Cable since he's responsible for the identity part of the offense; running the ball. And, Bevell was THIS in Minnesota. He then relied on Farve's crazy and random plays.

 

[nanomoz]

Is it just me? Any time this team lines up with an empty backfield, I'm counting on an incomplete pass. If anyone has numbers on this sort of thing, I'd love to see them. I swear that 4/5 empty backfield plays are a failure. Going back several years.

Another thing: when Britt is getting beaten all day by one elite pass rusher or another, why not give him some chip help? I don't understand it. Especially at the end of the game when you need routes to develop. Weren't we all counting on Hali to destroy Britt 1-on-1 on that last possession?

I'm not a "fire Bevell" guy at all. I think he does a lot of great things. But there are some serious head scratchers at times.

 

[CANHawk]

Honest Question

What about the fade to Moeaki? Wasn't that a similair play but to the other side?

How come we aren't pissed we didn't feed the beast on that play?

I tend to agree with Pe, but the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

The fade to Maoki, wasn't really a true fade. Wilson saw him come open, the fade is a throw to a spot and timing.

This also illustrates my underlying issue with this offense. It seems on most pass plays (other than those horrible bubble screens), Wilson has to improvise to get a big completion. There's rarely any moments where we get a quick well designed completion. It kind of feels like our passing game is running on improvisation rather than an effective passing scheme.

Exactly. If a completion takes longer than 6 seconds from the time the ball is snapped, that's not on the design of the play, that's on Russell Wilson going sandlot and receivers hustling themselves open.

Sorry Bevell, but you lost me today. That was some shitty playcalling. Nothing he did that didn't involve giving the ball to Marshawn made any sense...

 

[Chrome_Seahawk]

The reason the Hawks lost today, was Run defense!!!! Period. The defense got bullied and gashed all day. Why aren't we talking about that?? What about the dropped TD pass by Kearse? You gotta catch those. Period.

Actually, Run Defense was the reason we didn't win this game by 10 or more points. Despite poor run defense, we still had multiple chances to win the game....and those were foiled by poor situational play calling.

 

[pehawk]

Outside of the running game, this team has no reliable strength to turn to. The receiver are not playmakers. Average at best and even worst with the tight ends. We really never know what Wilson will do next. His biggest strength is playing backyard football. Just as likely to miss an open receiver on a slant as he is running around for 5 seconds and then throw a TD. Good luck calling plays for that. Then Unger goes out of the game? There's not a dependable go to play on the play sheet most the time because the team is so inconsistent.

He's had Russ and these receivers for 3 years. It's not like the OL hasn't always been skiddish in pass protection.

It's not news other NFL guys think Bevell's routes and concepts are generic. I mean, its common knowledge. I know its east to fall back and say "I trust the professional coach over a seahawks.net poster", but, well then what do we say if any X and O person comments on how BASIC the route tree is.

XOXO

Reactionary Randy

 

[AgentDib]

Harder to second guess run defense calls when we don't know the responsibilities and we knew it would be rough without Wags and Mebane.

I didn't like the opening drive either. Would I feel differently if it worked? Probably not, establishing the run was our only hope for this game so I wanted see it early.

I was fine with the TD pass to Baldwin. It didn't work but the Chiefs played it really well on the switch. I give them credit there.

I also disagree with second guessing ball carriers on individual plays. If Turbin is in the game there are reasons, they clearly like Lynch way more. Fair game to judge total carries though.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

FWIW I didn't like the fade either. Then again I rarely like a fade... unless it works, of course.

Calling a fade with a slot receiver is laughable. You call a fade with tall physical receivers who can out position the defender. A jump timing type route with Baldwin is stupid that situation.

Never works.

[youtube]6MGzsVKE44g[/youtube]

 

[LolaRox]

Seriously, why do we have this massive full back if not to help smash it in from a yard or two out?

This

:evil: