Irvin on the edge of bust

[capncrunch]

Maybe not worth the #15th overall pick, especially with hindsight, but he's definitely not a bad player.

A Pass rush specialist who had 2 sacks last year and can never beat his man one on one?

I would have, and Im serious, cut his ass yesterday if we had anyone else to go to. That play cost us significant time, and made the defense stay on the field in the most lopsided TOP game I have watched in a long time. It would have been 23-21 with the Hawks getting the ball in the 4th instead of 27-21, with more time remaining.

The guy is very near bust status, and to pull that stuff out of bounds, at that point in a road game.... WOW, just WOW.

Wow....

1) This was his first game this season. He didn't play last week and was out all of preseason. I thought he did fine except for the penalty.

2) He was not used as a pass rush specialist last year. They switched him to a LB and wasn't called on to pass rush as often.

3) He had 8 sacks in 2011, his rookie year, as a pass rush specialist.

Irvin will be fine he's still learning. He wasn't the reason they lost. To pin it on him is being narrow-minded.

I have to wonder if some of you really watch games or not. Based on the posts, I have to say you don't.

I remember at one point the announcers on tv talking up Bruce Irvin. I'd like to see how he plays in upcoming games. Wanted his head after that play of course, but....

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm OK with dumb penalties from time to time if you're making plays all over the field.

Hell, the big Russian made dumb penalties, but he also was a warrior on the O-line............but Irvin didn't do shit yesterday, and the only time his number was called was for a stupid penalty that led to a Charger TD? Unforgivable, just flat out unforgivable.

I guarantee you he's gone next year, no way we extend his contract.

 

[Anonymous]

"One player, a team does not make" - Yoda, after the Wattos loss to the Lightsabers

 

[Largent80]

I'm OK with dumb penalties from time to time if you're making plays all over the field.

Hell, the big Russian made dumb penalties, but he also was a warrior on the O-line............but Irvin didn't do shit yesterday, and the only time his number was called was for a stupid penalty that led to a Charger TD? Unforgivable, just flat out unforgivable.

I guarantee you he's gone next year, no way we extend his contract.

Well Put Sarge. I was there and watched him saunter over to the sideline after that atrocity. I wanted him skinned at that moment.

 

[kobebryant]

I disagree.

I believe he had like 8 or so sacks to lead all rookies as an edge rusher in his first season, and another in the playoffs. Transitioned to a new position last season and graded out by most metrics as one of the better 4-3 olbs in the NFL; had limited pass rushing opportunities last season with Clem,Avril and Bennett all doing their thing so the sack opportunities were down but if someone thinks he wasn't quite good last season they weren't paying attention to anything but the stat line.

Through two games this season he has generated quite a bit of pressure on qbs.

My best memories of Irvin last season was the stellar job in pass coverage he did to help shutdown Jimmy Graham.

Good breakdown here: http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/4/21/554 ... be-stopped

People who know, know.

 

[jblaze]

One area PC/JS hasn't done a good job drafting/developing has been the DE spot. It's critical that Marsh comes into form and we h it on another one next year. Bennett and Avril won't be around forever and we need a rotation of 3-4 guys.

Can't count on FA for DE's forever. Would be nice to hit on one of these guys in the draft and have them on the cheap and with club control for several years.

 

[Hawks46]

Maybe not worth the #15th overall pick, especially with hindsight, but he's definitely not a bad player.

A Pass rush specialist who had 2 sacks last year and can never beat his man one on one?

I would have, and Im serious, cut his ass yesterday if we had anyone else to go to. That play cost us significant time, and made the defense stay on the field in the most lopsided TOP game I have watched in a long time. It would have been 23-21 with the Hawks getting the ball in the 4th instead of 27-21, with more time remaining.

The guy is very near bust status, and to pull that stuff out of bounds, at that point in a road game.... WOW, just WOW.

This entire thread of so full of "suck" and emotion I don't know where to start, so I quoted this post.

Irvin played LB last year. He dropped into zones, he played against the pass OFF the line of scrimmage. He was NOT a pass rush specialist last year. His rookie year he was, and led all rookies is sacks and pressures. So make up your minds, is he a pass rush specialist or LBer ?

Last year was his first year playing LB at ANY level. He went into the NFL and didn't embarass himself. There are a TON of 1st round draft picks that played LBer all their lives that played much worse than Irvin did last year.

Has he been worth his draft slot ? Most likely not, but keep in mind what the FO was doing when the drafted him. Our roster was loaded and deep. Irvin was raw coming out of college, he admitted it and the coaching staff did as well. So we "reached" on a developmental pick that would show good returns in the FUTURE. He played a year, got a bit exposed in the playoffs (whoah, a rookie getting exposed in his first playoffs ? Say it aint so !) then switched positions to something unfamiliar.

I didn't see the game. I heard it on radio, and Raible and Moon were constantly calling Irvin's number. That's all I need to know. Oh, and how many sacks did we have on Rivers ? Evidently Irvin wasn't the only Seahawk missing sacks. Lets cut em all. The overreaction on this thread is that significant.

 

[NoTurnUnstoned]

1) This was his first game this season...

I have to wonder if some of you really watch games or not. Based on the posts, I have to say you don't.

Do YOU really watch the games? Irvin played last week.

http://www.seahawks.com/team/roster/Bru ... 77b9a4faf0

 

[Jacknut16]

Maybe not worth the #15th overall pick, especially with hindsight, but he's definitely not a bad player.

A Pass rush specialist who had 2 sacks last year and can never beat his man one on one?

I would have, and Im serious, cut his ass yesterday if we had anyone else to go to. That play cost us significant time, and made the defense stay on the field in the most lopsided TOP game I have watched in a long time. It would have been 23-21 with the Hawks getting the ball in the 4th instead of 27-21, with more time remaining.

The guy is very near bust status, and to pull that stuff out of bounds, at that point in a road game.... WOW, just WOW.

Wow....

1) This was his first game this season. He didn't play last week and was out all of preseason. I thought he did fine except for the penalty.

2) He was not used as a pass rush specialist last year. They switched him to a LB and wasn't called on to pass rush as often.

3) He had 8 sacks in 2011, his rookie year, as a pass rush specialist.

Irvin will be fine he's still learning. He wasn't the reason they lost. To pin it on him is being narrow-minded.

I have to wonder if some of you really watch games or not. Based on the posts, I have to say you don't.[/quote']

Based on your post you didnt watch last season.

2 sacks from a pass rush specialist, on a team where you get plenty of chances to rush the passer.

He is a below average pass rusher, plain and simple.

 

[Jacknut16]

Maybe not worth the #15th overall pick, especially with hindsight, but he's definitely not a bad player.

A Pass rush specialist who had 2 sacks last year and can never beat his man one on one?

I would have, and Im serious, cut his ass yesterday if we had anyone else to go to. That play cost us significant time, and made the defense stay on the field in the most lopsided TOP game I have watched in a long time. It would have been 23-21 with the Hawks getting the ball in the 4th instead of 27-21, with more time remaining.

The guy is very near bust status, and to pull that stuff out of bounds, at that point in a road game.... WOW, just WOW.

This entire thread of so full of "suck" and emotion I don't know where to start, so I quoted this post.

Irvin played LB last year. He dropped into zones, he played against the pass OFF the line of scrimmage. He was NOT a pass rush specialist last year. His rookie year he was, and led all rookies is sacks and pressures. So make up your minds, is he a pass rush specialist or LBer ?

Last year was his first year playing LB at ANY level. He went into the NFL and didn't embarass himself. There are a TON of 1st round draft picks that played LBer all their lives that played much worse than Irvin did last year.

Has he been worth his draft slot ? Most likely not, but keep in mind what the FO was doing when the drafted him. Our roster was loaded and deep. Irvin was raw coming out of college, he admitted it and the coaching staff did as well. So we "reached" on a developmental pick that would show good returns in the FUTURE. He played a year, got a bit exposed in the playoffs (whoah, a rookie getting exposed in his first playoffs ? Say it aint so !) then switched positions to something unfamiliar.

I didn't see the game. I heard it on radio, and Raible and Moon were constantly calling Irvin's number. That's all I need to know. Oh, and how many sacks did we have on Rivers ? Evidently Irvin wasn't the only Seahawk missing sacks. Lets cut em all. The overreaction on this thread is that significant.

Even worse, he was drafted for his speed off the edge and is not effective at getting the the QB, if he was they wouldnt have had to adjust the roll he plays.

This is not an overreaction, the rest of the defense is great, they had a bad day. Irvin is a bust. BIG difference.

 

[RiverDog]

Wow....

1) This was his first game this season. He didn't play last week and was out all of preseason. I thought he did fine except for the penalty.

2) He was not used as a pass rush specialist last year. They switched him to a LB and wasn't called on to pass rush as often.

3) He had 8 sacks in 2011, his rookie year, as a pass rush specialist.

Irvin will be fine he's still learning. He wasn't the reason they lost. To pin it on him is being narrow-minded.

I have to wonder if some of you really watch games or not. Based on the posts, I have to say you don't.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Irvin did play against the Packers, he was in on 19 plays.

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/ ... s-packers/

 

[MysterMatt]

Shouldn't the bust go to Schneider/Carroll for drafting a second round talent in the first round? Irvin is ok. A player doesn't all of a sudden become more talented because the front office deems him to be worthy of pick #15.

A fair observation. John and Pete drafted Irvin and clearly thought he'd be an impact player...which is pretty much the definition of a 1st Round pick. Clearly Irvin has NOT been an impact player on a consistent basis, so I think it's legit to start flirting with the "bust" flag, but if I remove my emotion from the situation I remember three things:

1. Nobody gets every pick right
2. Irvin is in his 3rd year, is still learning the LB position, and may yet turn things around
3. If Irvin only ends up being a good LB (my prediction), it isn't the end of the world, just a lost opportunity

 

[Anonymous]

Wow....

1) This was his first game this season. He didn't play last week and was out all of preseason. I thought he did fine except for the penalty.

2) He was not used as a pass rush specialist last year. They switched him to a LB and wasn't called on to pass rush as often.

3) He had 8 sacks in 2011, his rookie year, as a pass rush specialist.

Irvin will be fine he's still learning. He wasn't the reason they lost. To pin it on him is being narrow-minded.

I have to wonder if some of you really watch games or not. Based on the posts, I have to say you don't.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Irvin did play against the Packers, he was in on 19 plays.

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/ ... s-packers/

Would you like to revise your statement about who's watching the game?

:thcoffee:

The operative words may be "start" or "play" in this tussle.

 

[hawkfan68]

Wow....

1) This was his first game this season. He didn't play last week and was out all of preseason. I thought he did fine except for the penalty.

2) He was not used as a pass rush specialist last year. They switched him to a LB and wasn't called on to pass rush as often.

3) He had 8 sacks in 2011, his rookie year, as a pass rush specialist.

Irvin will be fine he's still learning. He wasn't the reason they lost. To pin it on him is being narrow-minded.

I have to wonder if some of you really watch games or not. Based on the posts, I have to say you don't.

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Irvin did play against the Packers, he was in on 19 plays.

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/ ... s-packers/

Would you like to revise your statement about who's watching the game?

Okay. My bad...he played the first week. He didn't play in the preseason.

 

[hawkfan68]

Maybe not worth the #15th overall pick, especially with hindsight, but he's definitely not a bad player.

A Pass rush specialist who had 2 sacks last year and can never beat his man one on one?

I would have, and Im serious, cut his ass yesterday if we had anyone else to go to. That play cost us significant time, and made the defense stay on the field in the most lopsided TOP game I have watched in a long time. It would have been 23-21 with the Hawks getting the ball in the 4th instead of 27-21, with more time remaining.

The guy is very near bust status, and to pull that stuff out of bounds, at that point in a road game.... WOW, just WOW.

Wow....

1) This was his first game this season. He didn't play last week and was out all of preseason. I thought he did fine except for the penalty.

2) He was not used as a pass rush specialist last year. They switched him to a LB and wasn't called on to pass rush as often.

3) He had 8 sacks in 2011, his rookie year, as a pass rush specialist.

Irvin will be fine he's still learning. He wasn't the reason they lost. To pin it on him is being narrow-minded.

I have to wonder if some of you really watch games or not. Based on the posts, I have to say you don't.[/quote']

Based on your post you didnt watch last season.

2 sacks from a pass rush specialist, on a team where you get plenty of chances to rush the passer.

He is a below average pass rusher, plain and simple.

He had 8 sacks his rookie year, which he was a pass rush specialist. He led all rookies in that stat.
He was asked to play LB and drop into coverage last year, not be a pass rush specialist. Thus limiting his opportunities for getting sacks. So his production regarding sacks dropped.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He had 8 sacks his rookie year, which he was a pass rush specialist. He led all rookies in that stat.
He was asked to play LB and drop into coverage last year, not be a pass rush specialist. Thus limiting his opportunities for getting sacks. So his production regarding sacks dropped.

Pete would not have moved Irvin to backer if he wasn't convinced that he no longer could develop him at purely the DE position.

You don't move a guy unless you've come to the conclusion that he's not capable of producing at the first position. Irvin couldn't be the consistent pass rusher that we needed, so he was moved to a position that Pete thought he could develop into.........and he's failing at that position now.

 

[HawkWow]

If you pose this question you must also start posing the question is Christine Michael starting to reach LaMichael James status. 2nd year and practically doesnt exist. Lots of hype but where is the production. He has another season I guess, but the whispers are out

I have posed the Michael question frequently. I don't care how anyone wants to sugarcoat it, as of now, using our 1st pick on Michael, under the circumstances, was borderline insanity. In fairness to Michael, he is living up to his scouting report which described him as having a poor attitude, a fumbler, difficult to coach and unwilling to put in the necessary work to complete his game.

I can't comment about his attitude as a Hawk or even his work ethic, but something is keeping him off the field. Is it just the fumbling, he still can't block or play ST......or is there (even) more? I know Pete says he's the most improved..yada yada yada, but I'm not buying that. If he's the most improved.....just how bad was he when we drafted him? IMO, his selection, under the circumstances and considering the information Pete and JS had about him, makes the Irvin pick look genius.

Irvin is a very gifted talent and apparently works his tail off (from what I have heard). Those defending him in this thread make excellent points..as do the ones calling for his head. The problem I have is this topic has sprung up multiple times since his selection (or the Packer game) and where there's smoke, typically, there's fire. This is not a knock on Irvin...or even Michael. They were college players drafted by this team and that falls on our FO. Well, I guess Michael is partially to blame because he told us to draft him (lol). That act in itself suggested he wasn't very bright, imo, his comments couldn't have sat well with the other 31 teams in the draft, but..whatever.

This is on Pete and JS and I will just end this by saying as of now, those guys have killed it in the draft and I am happy they call the shots, but let's not miss on any more high rounders that actually cost us money and roster spots. Please.

 

[hawkfan68]

He had 8 sacks his rookie year, which he was a pass rush specialist. He led all rookies in that stat.
He was asked to play LB and drop into coverage last year, not be a pass rush specialist. Thus limiting his opportunities for getting sacks. So his production regarding sacks dropped.

Pete would not have moved Irvin to backer if he wasn't convinced that he no longer could develop him at purely the DE position.

You don't move a guy unless you've come to the conclusion that he's not capable of producing at the first position. Irvin couldn't be the consistent pass rusher that we needed, so he was moved to a position that Pete thought he could develop into.........and he's failing at that position now.

Maybe. But the Seahawks had a glutton of pass rushers with Bennett and Avril being acquired. Clemons coming back. How about the thought they moved Irvin not because he was an inadequate pass rush specialist but because they knew he could do that and they wanted to see if he could flourish in another role...adding to his versatility. Not everyone that changes a position is because they are underperforming. If you think that way, then you are being narrow-minded. Unless you know for sure why he was switched (i.e. part of the PC and coaching staff discussions), you are just assuming. One thing is certain, Pete likes to experiment with his players - moving Red Bryant from DT to 5-tech DE, moving Sweezy from DL to OL, and moving Carpenter from tackle to guard.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Maybe. But the Seahawks had a glutton of pass rushers with Bennett and Avril being acquired. Clemons coming back. How about the thought they moved Irvin not because he was an inadequate pass rush specialist but because they knew he could do that and they wanted to see if he could flourish in another role...adding to his versatility. Not everyone that changes a position is because they are underperforming. If you think that way, then you are being narrow-minded. Unless you know for sure why he was switched (i.e. part of the PC and coaching staff discussions), you are just assuming. One thing is certain, Pete likes to experiment with his players - moving Red Bryant from DT to 5-tech DE, moving Sweezy from DL to OL, and moving Carpenter from tackle to guard.

The Atlanta playoff game was the perfect example of what I'm talking about. I GUARANTEE you Pete and John looked at that tape and decided that this team was ready to take the next step NOW, and couldn't wait another 3-4 years for Irvin to develop into the consistent DE this team needs. Thus we went out and got Bennett and Avril.

Do you honestly think Pete and John wanted to spend all that money on two DE free agents if they thought Irvin could play the position? Why? Just cause he might also be a good LB? That makes no sense.

 

[RiverDog]

He had 8 sacks his rookie year, which he was a pass rush specialist. He led all rookies in that stat.
He was asked to play LB and drop into coverage last year, not be a pass rush specialist. Thus limiting his opportunities for getting sacks. So his production regarding sacks dropped.

As was discussed earlier in the thread, 6 of his 8 rookie year sacks came in the first half of the season, and 4 of those in two games. The vast majority of games he was completely shut out, seldom threatening the QB. Once OT's figured out that all they had to do is let him go in the direction he wanted, they simply locked him up and rode him inside or out and he could never break free. He had two moves, a bull rush and a sprint for the edge, no swim or spin moves to break free of the OT. He was drafted to eventually play Leo, but when he started in the playoffs against Atlanta after Clemons got hurt he played poorly, so I guess that had to be one of the reasons why they moved him to OLB. In 2013, he was supposed to play this "spinner" role that was going to create more pass rushing opportunities, but they started taking him out on 3rd downs in favor of Malcolm Smith, who was a better coverage linebacker. By the end of last season, his snap count was down in the teens.

You can rationalize the reasons for his lack of productivity, be it the PED suspension, his hip injury, or his learning a new position. But we're into Year 3 with him, so he should be finding his place and contributing, and so far, I haven't seen it.