Is Pete the best coach in the NFL?

[Hawks46]

I don't think his college accomplishments have anything to do with his NFL HOF credentials.

No, but it shows his coaching ability.

As for the NFL, thus far he has taken this team to the playoffs five out of six years. They've won at least ten games and gone to the playoffs each of the last four years. They've been to two straight Super Bowls and won one. The defense has been number one in scoring for four years in a row.

That's remarkable consistency. If this team continues to play well while Pete is head coach, he will earn HoF induction.

The other point I'd add to yours is that the measuring stick being used is almost always Bellichick. The thing is, the NFCE has been perennially terrible while he's been there, while the NFCW has been on of the toughest divisions in the entire league year in and year out for the last 5 or so years.

I'm not sure he's the best X's and O's coach out there, but I'd definitely say he's the best coach for player development. Hell, add in coaching development as well; two of his coordinators have gone on to become Head coaches in his last 5 year stint here and both are still coaching.

 

[rideaducati]

He is the oldest head coach in the NFL.

 

[Seymour]

I believe what you've done here is just asked a question you don't want to hear the answer to. And the answer is obvious IMO.

 

[joeseahawks]

Belichik has consistently played in a very weak division, which has given him home field advantage year after year after year and the #1 seed.

Basically, the Pats really need to win 2 meaningful home games per year to be in the SB. Facing Jets, Bills, and Dolphins is almost a guarantee of 4-6 wins per season. Jets challenged them once, but that was about it.
I don't have the stats handy, but how many times has Bill B. had to go on the road to win to get to the Super Bowl?

 

[bjornanderson21]

I know Bill Belicheck this ... and Bill that ... and all that garbage about the cheaters of NE.
But, look at Pete's work since taking over Seattle ... Wow ... just wow ... I mean ... just wow ...
I don't even know where to start. Can we sign him for life? I mean ... can we redo his contract ?

If we are talking about strategy and situational awareness, Pete doesn't come close to BB

Pete's energy and excitement might help him motivate his players better, but in critical situations he doesn't seem to be as aware of the clock, timeouts, challenges, and i guess what i would call "critical strategy".

Im 100% confident that we would have won the SB last year with BB. No way he calls the worst play in NFL history and loses the SB.

I love Pete overall, but he will never be as good as BB

 

[hawknation2015]

I know Bill Belicheck this ... and Bill that ... and all that garbage about the cheaters of NE.
But, look at Pete's work since taking over Seattle ... Wow ... just wow ... I mean ... just wow ...
I don't even know where to start. Can we sign him for life? I mean ... can we redo his contract ?

If we are talking about strategy and situational awareness, Pete doesn't come close to BB

Pete's energy and excitement might help him motivate his players better, but in critical situations he doesn't seem to be as aware of the clock, timeouts, challenges, and i guess what i would call "critical strategy".

Im 100% confident that we would have won the SB last year with BB. No way he calls the worst play in NFL history and loses the SB.

I love Pete overall, but he will never be as good as BB

Because Belichick has never lost a Super Bowl to an under-matched opponent? :34853_doh:

Belichick is just a completely different type of coach with a totally different philosophy and culture. I much prefer Carroll's style, and absolutely he could be as good as Belichick if he continues to win Super Bowls. Belichick, a defensive-minded coach originally, has never coached a Top 5 defense in his career. Meanwhile, Carroll's coaching strategy has produced four-consecutive #1 scoring defenses.

 

[rideaducati]

Belichik has consistently played in a very weak division, which has given him home field advantage year after year after year and the #1 seed.

Basically, the Pats really need to win 2 meaningful home games per year to be in the SB. Facing Jets, Bills, and Dolphins is almost a guarantee of 4-6 wins per season. Jets challenged them once, but that was about it.
I don't have the stats handy, but how many times has Bill B. had to go on the road to win to get to the Super Bowl?

Twice for the AFC Championship in pissburg after a bye week and a win a week earlier.

 

[Scottemojo]

Not at throwing red flags. His challenges suck.

 

[Laloosh]

Not at throwing red flags. His challenges suck.

Seriously needs to fire his "challenge" guy. Wasn't he something like 4/14?

 

[Mtjhoyas]

From the biggest umbrella:

Strategy, Motivation, Personal, etc...Pete Carroll is by far the best in the business. Nobody is better at developing talent, utilizing talent and managing that talent. Is there anything more important? No.

 

[Nothinbutm]

I definitely agree on the strategy standpoint. Belichick is absolutely a master at X's and O's. But are you ever going to see this guy stand on top of a locker and act like a kid in front of his players to wear his heart on his sleeve? Hell no.

And whoever mentioned if we had BB as a coach for last year's superbowl we win? I wholeheartedly disagree with that. We had a defense that by halftime was banged up almost beyond recognition. Earl's dislocated shoulder, Kam's torn ligaments, Sherman's major elbow injury, Avril's concussion, Lane's God awful bone shattering situation. Those players (obviously with the exception of Lane) would not have played their asses and hearts out for someone like BB. They play because they want to play for Pete and how he constantly shows that he cares.

What would you take? A master X's and O's plan with no one excited to execute it? Or a simple plan that people are fired up to the point where they can't contain themselves to execute? It's not even up for debate. They both have their strengths and weaknesses in any given situation in the game of football. But I'll take Pete any time of the day. This is a coach that makes you a better person, not just a player. And the amazing thing is that it's contagious.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Belichicks the best coach in the NFL right now.

I don't care what sort of comparisons you make, there's only one thing that matters in pro sports, winning..........and no one's come close to Belichick's SB trophies, conference championships and has won for as long as he's won.

But Pete's close, just needs more time.

 

[Fade]

#1 DVOA

Top 5 O / Top 5 D

Has the highest rated passer in the NFL

#1 Scoring D

Goes 10-6?

Pete is a very good coach overall, but he is slow to adjust, and makes game management mistakes that costs his team games.

Let's review just the playoffs.

2012 - versus ATL - he rushes 5 and goes soft zone behind it. When press man was what got them back in the game. ATL easily moves down the field for the game winning field goal. After the game Pete said he blew it, and lost sleep over it in a later interview.

2013 - NFCCG - Kap's stupidity saved the day. Pete goes vanilla cover 3 every single snap of that last possession. Kap easily moves the ball down the field throwing to the left side of the field. He then decides to inexplicably throw at Sherm. If Kap keeps working the left side of the field they win.

2014 - XLIX - Green lit the dumbest play call in NFL History. Also took his foot off the gas on offense in the 4 qtr thinking the game was over.

TLDR;
Pete is amazing at setting up, and building a franchise. He is #1 in that category. Game management --> No.

 

[DavidSeven]

When did the term "coaching" refer solely or even predominately to game-management? That is too simplistic and narrow a view. It's an EA Madden way of looking at the game. It is the HC equivalent of bagging on play-calling. It's easy for us to do because we see it on TV, and we can say, "oh, I would've done that differently" from the view of our couch. It's a fun game for armchair coaches and video gamers, but that discussion really only captures a small fraction of what coaching is really about. It is also ignores the fact that Carroll has actually been a brilliant tactician, easily shutting down more elite offenses than any other coach in the league over the last four years.

Coaching encompasses a lot of things. Can you develop a program and a culture? Can you develop young players? Can you maximize talent? Can you develop a coaching staff that functions cohesively and effectively? More than that, does your program development lead to success on the field? That is 99% of the work.

 

[Fade]

When did the term "coaching" refer solely or even predominately to game-management? That is too simplistic and narrow a view. It's an EA Madden way of looking at the game. It is the HC equivalent of bagging on play-calling. It's easy for us to do because we see it on TV, and we can say, "oh, I would've done that differently" from the view of our couch. It's a fun game for armchair coaches and video gamers, but that discussion really only captures a small fraction of what coaching is really about. It is also ignores the fact that Carroll has actually been a brilliant tactician, easily shutting down more elite offenses than any other coach in the league over the last four years.

Coaching encompasses a lot of things. Can you develop a program and a culture? Can you develop young players? Can you maximize talent? Can you develop a coaching staff that functions cohesively and effectively? More than that, does your program development lead to success on the field? That is 99% of the work.

Truth Hurts.

His is #1 in developing a program & culture. Then proceeds to go 10-6 because.... game, and season management. Drew Nowak over Patrick Lewis is an another example.

#reality.

 

[ivotuk]

Darn Tootin!

Watch Belicheat fizzle when Tom Brady goes down.

I know that Josh McDaniels and Matt Cassell got them to 11-5, but that was a good team then. And Josh is one of the best OCs on the planet.

Belicheat has gotten in trouble for "bending the rules" and other than Matt Cassell, he's had elite QBs like Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady.

Look at what happened in Miami once Tom started getting hit. Look at what happened to their perfect season when the Giants started pummeling Tom Brady. Even their first Super Bowl came on a "tuck rule" which they finally took out of the book.

He's a damn good coach, but I don't think he's got elite status like Bill Walsh who not only coached at an elite level, but drafted at an elite level also. Belicheat can't draft for shit.

 

[Fade]

Darn Tootin!

Watch Belicheat fizzle when Tom Brady goes down.

I know that Josh McDaniels and Matt Cassell got them to 11-5, but that was a good team then. And Josh is one of the best OCs on the planet.

Belicheat has gotten in trouble for "bending the rules" and other than Matt Cassell, he's had elite QBs like Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady.

Look at what happened in Miami once Tom started getting hit. Look at what happened to their perfect season when the Giants started pummeling Tom Brady. Even their first Super Bowl came on a "tuck rule" which they finally took out of the book.

He's a damn good coach, but I don't think he's got elite status like Bill Walsh who not only coached at an elite level, but drafted at an elite level also. Belicheat can't draft for shit.

I agree his drafting is mediocre, but then he schemes, and coaches them up, thus he is the best coach in the game, and it is not even close.

 

[DavidSeven]

His is #1 in developing a program & culture. Then proceeds to go 10-6 because.... game, and season management. Drew Nowak over Patrick Lewis is an another example.

Belichick has gone 10-6 or worse three times with Brady and just lost 4 of his last 6 games to terrible competition.

What point does this prove? One season or one bad stretch doesn't say anything about one's aptitude as a coach or game manager. What matters is being consistent and giving your program a chance to be successful year-in and year-out. There is very little margin in the NFL between 13-3 and 10-6 in any given year. Give me a guy who can develop a program that ensures success over the longhaul.

 

[Fade]

His is #1 in developing a program & culture. Then proceeds to go 10-6 because.... game, and season management. Drew Nowak over Patrick Lewis is an another example.

Belichick has gone 10-6 or worse three times with Brady and just lost 4 of his last 6 games to terrible competition.

What point does this prove? One season or one bad stretch doesn't say anything about one's aptitude as a coach or game manager. What matters is being consistent and giving your program a chance to be successful year-in and year-out. There is very little margin in the NFL between 13-3 and 10-6 in any given year. Give me a guy who can develop a program that ensures success over the longhaul.

Did Belichick have the #1 overall DVOA team, with a Top 5 O / Top 5 D, and go 10-6? I think not.

*edit* I believe he went 16-0, not 10-6 with that talent level.

#KeepDancing.

 

[DavidSeven]

His is #1 in developing a program & culture. Then proceeds to go 10-6 because.... game, and season management. Drew Nowak over Patrick Lewis is an another example.

Belichick has gone 10-6 or worse three times with Brady and just lost 4 of his last 6 games to terrible competition.

What point does this prove? One season or one bad stretch doesn't say anything about one's aptitude as a coach or game manager. What matters is being consistent and giving your program a chance to be successful year-in and year-out. There is very little margin in the NFL between 13-3 and 10-6 in any given year. Give me a guy who can develop a program that ensures success over the longhaul.

Did Belichick have the #1 overall DVOA team, with a Top 5 O / Top 5 D, and go 10-6? I think not.

Keep Dancing.

Haha, so you're giving Belichick points for being less competitive at 10-6?

Good logic.

DVOA, as applied to teams, isn't a measure of talent on your roster. It is an average of how successful your team is on each play based on down-and-distance. I'm not sure what point you're making by saying we're #1 DVOA but only 10-6. All that's proven there is that we had some fluky W/L results, but that on a per-play and situational basis, we were the best in the league again.