Is Pete the best coach in the NFL?

[Fade]

His is #1 in developing a program & culture. Then proceeds to go 10-6 because.... game, and season management. Drew Nowak over Patrick Lewis is an another example.

Belichick has gone 10-6 or worse three times with Brady and just lost 4 of his last 6 games to terrible competition.

What point does this prove? One season or one bad stretch doesn't say anything about one's aptitude as a coach or game manager. What matters is being consistent and giving your program a chance to be successful year-in and year-out. There is very little margin in the NFL between 13-3 and 10-6 in any given year. Give me a guy who can develop a program that ensures success over the longhaul.

Did Belichick have the #1 overall DVOA team, with a Top 5 O / Top 5 D, and go 10-6? I think not.

Keep Dancing.

Haha, so you're giving Belichick points for being less competitive at 10-6?

Good logic.

DVOA, as applied to teams, isn't a measure of talent on your roster. It is an average of how successful your team is on each play based on down-and-distance. I'm not sure what point you're making by saying we're #1 DVOA but only 10-6. All that's proven there is that we had some fluky W/L results, but that on a per-play and situational basis, we were the best in the league again.

Fluky is a euphemism for mismanagement.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Our DVOA was only decent at the beginning of the year before Pete made adjustments that he has admtited were late in coming. But once made, the team has been so good the 2nd half that we overcame the initial deficit in DVOA.

Mismanagement is a strange word for an occasional lack of execution when the overall success of individual plays is solid. Faulty logic here and false definitions.

 

[Fade]

Our DVOA was only decent at the beginning of the year before Pete made adjustments that he has admtited were late in coming. But once made, the team has been so good the 2nd half that we overcame the initial deficit in DVOA.

Mismanagement is a strange word for an occasional lack of execution when the overall success of individual plays is solid. Faulty logic here and false definitions.

Spin it how ever you want. Pete mismanaged the 1st half of the season, and it cost the team games, period. Pete admitted it was a mistake to start Nowak over Lewis. That one coaching decision probably cost the team at least 2 games.

I made a thread in early-mid October, about how Cary Williams was a waste of space, and should be benched for Shead until Lane can comeback. Of course I was attacked, and told I was an idiot on here... but that is what eventually ended up happening. Again Pete was too slow to adjust and it cost the team at least another game. His 4th qtr mismanagement in the Superbowl carried over into the the 1st half of this regular season, and cost the team more games.

My Main Point is:
If fans want to classify 3 of the losses as hey it's the NFL, stuff happens. I can buy that, but not when it is 6 losses. Pete made it way harder on his team than he had to make it. Now the Hawks have to run through the gauntlet on the road, which may prove costly in the end.

#tellthetruthmonday(seasonedition)

 

[Ad Hawk]

Spin it how ever you want.

As will you, we continue to see.

The losses this season were a combination of things, not all of which were on the coach. Execution can be planned, but in-game craziness and even the occasional 1v1 mis-match in a game can be beyond a coach's ability to control.

I'm not exonerating Pete for not adjusting quickly enough, or saying he's the best coach ever. But to turn the rest of the season around and end as strong as they did is fabulous coaching. You can focus on the 1st 1/2 all you want and complain about everything, and you will continue to do so, I'm sure, while getting beat up (whether justified or not) simply because of your overstatingly critical approach.

In the end, the Hawks are a historically great team over the past 4 years who got here with the help of a fantastic coach (and staff). I prefer to enjoy the full part of the glass, and expect we'll continue to be at the top with Pete's leadership on and off the field. If we win another Lombardi this year, which is very possible, it won't be in spite of PC, but because of him. I'll take that kind of good with the occasional "huh?"-moment.

 

[bjornanderson21]

Darn Tootin!

Watch Belicheat fizzle when Tom Brady goes down.

I know that Josh McDaniels and Matt Cassell got them to 11-5, but that was a good team then. And Josh is one of the best OCs on the planet.

Belicheat has gotten in trouble for "bending the rules" and other than Matt Cassell, he's had elite QBs like Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady.

Look at what happened in Miami once Tom started getting hit. Look at what happened to their perfect season when the Giants started pummeling Tom Brady. Even their first Super Bowl came on a "tuck rule" which they finally took out of the book.

He's a damn good coach, but I don't think he's got elite status like Bill Walsh who not only coached at an elite level, but drafted at an elite level also. Belicheat can't draft for shit.

BB has not done a great job in the draft, but for the last few years Schneider hasn't either and yet people around here still pretend that he is.

What you also conveniently left out is the Pats have been the uncontested champion of making wise trades for draft picks for about a decade. They have more of a cushion to draft the wrong guys. Here in Seattle, schneider has wasted many picks on stupid trades.

 

[Fade]

Darn Tootin!

Watch Belicheat fizzle when Tom Brady goes down.

I know that Josh McDaniels and Matt Cassell got them to 11-5, but that was a good team then. And Josh is one of the best OCs on the planet.

Belicheat has gotten in trouble for "bending the rules" and other than Matt Cassell, he's had elite QBs like Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady.

Look at what happened in Miami once Tom started getting hit. Look at what happened to their perfect season when the Giants started pummeling Tom Brady. Even their first Super Bowl came on a "tuck rule" which they finally took out of the book.

He's a damn good coach, but I don't think he's got elite status like Bill Walsh who not only coached at an elite level, but drafted at an elite level also. Belicheat can't draft for shit.

BB has not done a great job in the draft, but for the last few years Schneider hasn't either and yet people around here still pretend that he is.

What you also conveniently left out is the Pats have been the uncontested champion of making wise trades for draft picks for about a decade. They have more of a cushion to draft the wrong guys. Here in Seattle, schneider has wasted many picks on stupid trades.

Yes, you're right, but a lot of picks considered bad are playing for other teams. (The Seahawks roster was/is too deep). Though Schneider appears to have rebounded with the '15 class. Clark, Lockett, Glowinski, UDFA Rawls, & we will see on Tye Smith, and Kristjan Sokoli.

Another season will be needed to evaluate the Jimmy trade, but so far that was not good. That being said I like how PCJS take shots with the 1st round picks, and flipping them for All-Pros. If they could do it for Joe Thomas, or a good vet O-Lineman I would be all for it.

 

[Islander]

"I don't think his college accomplishments have anything to do with his NFL HOF credentials."


Actually, it is the PRO Football Hall Of Fame - so maybe his USC days would count!

 

[irocdave]

Man that's a loaded question. BB is still arguably the best coach, at least in my mind. Pete is almost an equal, if Pete can keep it up for another 8 years I would say he is one the best ever. They both have totally different personalities and styles but the nuts and bolts approach is the same. Hire great assistants, mentor them to coach the players, then coach the players to the best of their ability. I think their is a huge gap between BB, PC and maybe S Payton and other coaches. These guys understand your getting raw talent out of the draft and they NEED COACHING, even veteran free agents. They need consistent focused coaching, even for the basics like tackling. BB and PC can spot COACHING talent, then take the time to make the assistant coaches better.

I think a lot of NFL coaches get caught up with the details and forget the basics., the foundation of playing football. They will quit on players because they cant see the forest through the trees with personnel and fail to see they are missing the basic skills needed to play the game at this level.

BB schemes better than any coach has, PC has the most fundamentally sound players in the league with rare physical gifts that can execute those fundamentals better than the others.

Both "systems" work, and by work, I mean better than most.

 

[Largent80]

When did the term "coaching" refer solely or even predominately to game-management? That is too simplistic and narrow a view. It's an EA Madden way of looking at the game. It is the HC equivalent of bagging on play-calling. It's easy for us to do because we see it on TV, and we can say, "oh, I would've done that differently" from the view of our couch. It's a fun game for armchair coaches and video gamers, but that discussion really only captures a small fraction of what coaching is really about. It is also ignores the fact that Carroll has actually been a brilliant tactician, easily shutting down more elite offenses than any other coach in the league over the last four years.

Coaching encompasses a lot of things. Can you develop a program and a culture? Can you develop young players? Can you maximize talent? Can you develop a coaching staff that functions cohesively and effectively? More than that, does your program development lead to success on the field? That is 99% of the work.

Truth Hurts.

His is #1 in developing a program & culture. Then proceeds to go 10-6 because.... game, and season management. Drew Nowak over Patrick Lewis is an another example.

#reality.

Let me get this straight. You are complaining about a winning record AND another trip to the playoffs? You obviously weren't around in the 90's.

 

[RichNhansom]

If I'm starting a franchise tomorrow and get to pick any coach in the league to start it with there is absolutely zero question I'm taking Pete.

No one is perfect. BB has coached in the easiest division in football while the NFC west has represented the superbowl the last three years. Sent multiple teams to the playoffs each of those years and once again have two of the highest rated and feared teams going into the playoffs.

There is also the reputation for cheating that I would stop wathging football all together if my team had the Patriots reputation.

Tom Brady can't be ignored either. If Wilson's trajectory is anywhere near Tom's we will have a very long run of success and many more accomplishments. If we can do that with our reputation in tack, playing in the NFC West and in the cap era Pete might one day be seen as the greatest football mind in history.

I'll take Pete for the win.

 

[Vikes45]

When Coughlin stepped down in NY the first name that popped into my head was Pete Carroll. Just sayin.

 

[HawkAroundTheClock]

I dunno... does Pete have a video library of opponents' signals?

If not, is he really competing to be the best?





:sarcasm_off: :stirthepot:

 

[cacksman]

He was one play away from claiming that title . . . one play away from going 2-0 against Belichick . . . one play away from closing the Super Bowl gap, down 2-3.

Ultimately, I think Belichick suckered Bevell into throwing the ball by NOT calling the standard TO to stop the clock, thereby forcing the always-calculated Bevell to decide to run enough time off the clock, in the unlikely event that his idiotic play to Ricardo Lockette succeeded, while at the same time allowing the clock to stop on an incompletion to allow more opportunities to score. For that, Belichick is the undisputed greatest coach in the game. The ability to exploit an opponent's greatest weakness is an underrated trait.

Let's not pretend like Beli not calling a TO was some sort of genius decision. It looks great in hindsight, but he also has had some very questionable (to be generous) decisions, such as choosing to kick in OT last weekend. Wound up losing them the #1 seed.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Right now, I'd say we have to give that title to Belechick. But you give Pete Carroll the tools Belechick has to work with, like secret video recording equipment, an assistant coach in charge of opposition exploitation, and shady-ass ball boys, and absolutely he's as good as Belechick.

 

[RichNhansom]

Didn't Billy go for it on 4th and long in his own territory in that Giants Super Bowl loss?

I can't remember the exact details but I remember thinking how it was both arrogant and stupid.