Jermain Kearse in a different offense

[FargoHawk]

Kearse would be no better than a 3rd WR (and that's a BIG stretch) on any other team. He's just not that good.

 

[ZagHawk]

Kearse would be no better than a 3rd WR (and that's a BIG stretch) on any other team. He's just not that good.

This. He went undrafted for a reason. Hell if Sidney Rice didn't get injured (and then retired), he would not be on the field. Don't get me wrong, I loved some of the big plays he does, but sadly he's just inconsistent. I do not watch college football, but according to my UW friends he would have huge plays and huge drops. Over the past 1.5 years I see what they mean.

 

[scutterhawk]

With almost every single one of the answers that I've read here, I'm getting the vibe that Russell Wilson just shouldn't expect to have a true #1 type Receiver, because some of Y'all don't believe that the Seahawks will part with the money, should one become available?
So by that avenue of thought, are we to assume that any of the Receivers that we have now, will pretty much sign elsewhere if they are expecting a big payday?
I for one am having a problem with believing that scenario.
I'm more to the thinking, that we are a run first Offense, because that is where we are having the most success...For Now, and will probably stay that way until Russell Wilson can work out a chemistry with his WR/TE group, and once that happens, the Seahawks will have a much more balanced attack.
There could be a fly in the ointment with this plan though...Russell Wilson has to keep dodging the bullet and STAY HEALTHY enough for this plan to develop, and I'm not 100% confident that he can "Just Wing It" for much longer.
I also think that the front Office is going to have to prioritize on finding a true #1Receiver for Russell Wilson, if they expect to keep him from flaming out.

 

[hawknation2014]

With almost every single one of the answers that I've read here, I'm getting the vibe that Russell Wilson just shouldn't expect to have a true #1 type Receiver, because some of Y'all don't believe that the Seahawks will part with the money, should one become available?

Nah, I don't think you can assume this is true for receivers any more than you can about any other position. After all, the team dedicated enormous resources to acquire Percy Harvin (though it didn't work out) and they used their top draft choice this year on the position (Paul Richardson). They chose to allow Golden Tate to sign elsewhere in exchange for signing Doug Baldwin to a long-term extension (three years, $13 million).

So while it's true that the team's overarching goal is to develop and take care of their own, they are as likely (or more likely) to dedicate resources to the WR position as they are any other position. This is particularly true when you consider that the WR position is currently one of our weaker areas. It's possible they will make a special effort to strengthen the position in the off season, perhaps with another high draft pick or free agent acquisition.

 

[olyfan63]

We've definitely put major resources into the WR position, we just don't have a lot to show for it between Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin.

And everyone lay off Kearse. The dude's a legit #4 NFL receiver. Maybe a #3.5 in Seattle's scheme because of his run blocking ability. Dude made huge plays for us last year. Not as many this year so far, and some glaring errors. (TD drop in loss at KC)

I don't see anyone else signing Kearse except maybe JAX or another team that highly values ST play.
We already have another #4 WR special teams ace in Lockette. Lockette could develop into a #3 over time.
I see Kearse getting a just-above vet minimum kind of contract offer and hanging around the back end of the Seahawks roster for another couple years. If Kearse improves, he could become a #3 type and get a slightly bigger contract in the next go-round. Obviously, if Kearse has a big stretch run and playoffs like last year, that helps his position a lot for this offseason.

 

[Smellyman]

With all of Golden Tate's success in Detroit, does anyone think Kearse is being underutilized on this team? Could you imagine him in another offense putting up big numbers. I could see him being successful in SD, GB, NO, DAL, even Denver?


Kearse will be a restricted FA after this season. Is he worth a 2nd round pick traded to us from another team?

If we tender him at 2nd rd money and get no bites, what do you think he will fetch on the open market in 2016?

Golden Tate had success here too, hence he got a contract with Detroit.

Kearse? not so much.

 

[Tokadub]

If Kearse was better at getting those tightly defended throws I would say he's slightly under utilized on our team. I've always said Kearse has bad hands and he has been barely over 50% with his catch rate the past 2 seasons. I know it's not always his fault, some balls might be off target but he rarely comes up with those contested balls that a top NFL receiver should. Kearse seems to lack the killer instinct to fight for the ball or to battle a defender, a CB like Sherman would have a field day on him and intercept him almost every time.

Kearse had some huge plays last season so he should always have a warm place in the hearts of hawk fans. But I think this led to some people over rating him... this off season I would get blasted every time I suggested that Kearse wasn't incredible. People really seemed to think he could be a star... He has the potential to make plays like a star but he's just too inconsistent and he has shown that this season although it was obvious last season too if you watched him closely.

Kearse also seems to prefer or rely on "chest catching" he likes the ball to hit him right between the numbers and wrap it up with both arms like he's cradling a baby. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it really depends on the throw and the defenders position. For instance Golden Tate also does a lot of chest catching and he very rarely doesn't get the ball, however Golden Tate has also shown the ability to stretch out his arms sometimes while making acrobatic mid air adjustments and he still catches the ball just as well as if it hit his chest. Kearse on the other hand has problems with hand catches, the ball seems to always be bobbling around giving the defender a chance to strip it or knock it out assuming Kearse doesn't straight up drop it.

That's the main difference between Kearse and a top NFL receiver. With his catch rate being so low around 55% compared to most our other guys like Baldwin who is nearly 70%... If anything we are over utilizing Kearse but I'm ok with that it's not like we are stacked at WR. I would like to see Norwood, Richardson, and Lockette to get a few more of Kearses targets though.

Lockette in particular has been insanely effective compared to how many targets he gets... I doubt there's many IF ANY other receivers who average about 20 yards per catch, has 4.3 speed, over 6 feet tall, with good hands who gets targeted only a few times a season... Most teams would utilize their unique weapons... Bevell does not.

Out of all our offensive players though I think Christine Michael is the most underutilized. He has 6.2 yards per carry which doesn't seem like much given the small sample size, but at that rate he would be #2 in the league behind Wilson on the ESPN stats. I think with his off the charts athleticism he should be able to easily go for 5 yards a carry with a lot more carries. You can just tell if he has a little space he will make great things happen. So hopefully we will use CMike and take him out of that dusty closet before some other team snatches him up and we see him top 5 in rushing yards and have another Golden Tate example of how our offense doesn't appropriately utilize players and allow them to reach their full potential.

 

[kearly]

If I had to compare Kearse to a different active WR, my first inclination would be Davante Adams in Green Bay. Similar size and speed, and both have excellent possession WR skills including a very good ability to attack the deep ball and also to make something happen after the catch. Both have a similar tendency to drop the easy ones, but catch the tough ones.

I don't think Adams is an elite talent. I do think that next year he'll have 1100 yards and 7 TDs. With the exception of maybe a dozen WRs in this league, the offense they play in will dictate their production more than anything else.

Ergo, it's kind of silly to judge a WR only by production. It would be like judging a pitcher by ERA.

 

[HawkHack]

Ergo, it's kind of silly to judge a WR only by production. It would be like judging a pitcher by ERA.

Isn't that how most pitchers are evaluated? Not by W-L, but by ERA?

 

[hawknation2014]

If I had to compare Kearse to a different active WR, my first inclination would be Davante Adams in Green Bay. Similar size and speed, and both have excellent possession WR skills including a very good ability to attack the deep ball and also to make something happen after the catch. Both have a similar tendency to drop the easy ones, but catch the tough ones.

I don't think Adams is an elite talent. I do think that next year he'll have 1100 yards and 7 TDs. With the exception of maybe a dozen WRs in this league, the offense they play in will dictate their production more than anything else.

Ergo, it's kind of silly to judge a WR only by production. It would be like judging a pitcher by ERA.

Davante Adams is already a better WR than Kearse as a rookie. I can't say the same about Paul Richardson, at least not yet.

 

[Vetamur]

If we still need Kearse next year then its indicative of another bad draft at the WR position.

We are keeping Baldwin. Richardson should, in his second year as a 2nd round pick, be ready to start opposite him. Norwood should be the 3rd WR. Kearse would then be 4th, but we wont be willing to pay as much as someone will for essentially his resume. Next year the 4th and 5th WRs will be new late or mid round picks or UDFAs. WR just isnt a position you have to spend much money on.

 

[olyfan63]

If we still need Kearse next year then its indicative of another bad draft at the WR position.

We are keeping Baldwin. Richardson should, in his second year as a 2nd round pick, be ready to start opposite him. Norwood should be the 3rd WR. Kearse would then be 4th, but we wont be willing to pay as much as someone will for essentially his resume. Next year the 4th and 5th WRs will be new late or mid round picks or UDFAs. WR just isnt a position you have to spend much money on.

You mean to get #3 and #4 receivers. To get a #1 WR you have to either spend big bucks or get lucky in the draft. Seattle was in the top 3 for money spent for a top WR. Unfortunately, they guy they spent it on was a #3 receiver with mental health issues (most likely Borderline Personality Disorder) who believes the universe revolves around him and is toxic to a team, and frankly, has huge issues in key parts of his game and is just not the caliber of player who is worth anywhere close to the contract he got. In hindsight, with the huge holes we saw in Percy Harvin's game, plus the me-me-me issues, it's probably the worst football personnel moment of Pete's career. And this one is on PETE, not John.

I guarantee Pete learned the FULL lesson on the Harvin fiasco and will never repeat that type of mistake. So it's pointless to bash him for it now. Kind of like ogling the super-hot girl and then getting with her and finding out she's psychobitch and has issues that make you just not want to be around her (including frequent fits of rage where she's cursing and hitting you), plus even the great sex totally dries up after the honeymoon period. (P.S. I just described a female with Borderline Personality Disorder; Harvin is what it looks like in the male version)

A few #1 receivers I've seen this year, including 2 established plus 2 up-and-coming rooks:
Megatron (too obvious)
Julio Jones, Falcons
Odell Beckham, Jr, Giants
Kelvin Benjamin, Panthers

I'll post some salary stats next. Ask which you'd want at that salary...

 

[olyfan63]

There are some nice stats at the site below. Ask yourself how many of these guys you feel are worth those contracts and who you'd love to have on your team at that price, given other positions you'd be weaker at, under the salary cap system.

From the middle-bottom of the list, which guys would you want at that salary? That list has Julio Jones in it, plus Odell Beckham and Kelvin Benjamin. So it looks like the short answer, to not tie up too much capital, is get yourself a #1 WR in the draft, trade up if needed. Easier said than done... but if we could have gotten Kelvin Benjamin at #28 for the value we put out for Percy Harvin... easy call (in hindsight), and it doesn't cripple us under the salary cap where we have to not sign other talents who help our team.

http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/

TOP PAID WIDE RECEIVERS
Player Team Total Value Avg./Year Total Guaranteed Avg. Guarantee/Year % Guaranteed Free Agency
Calvin Johnson Lions $113,450,000 $16,207,143 $48,750,000 $6,964,286 43.0% 2020 UFA
Larry Fitzgerald Cardinals $113,000,000 $16,142,857 $27,000,000 $3,857,143 23.9% 2019 UFA
Percy Harvin Jets $64,245,000 $12,849,000 $14,500,000 $2,900,000 22.6% 2019 UFA
Mike Wallace Dolphins $60,000,000 $12,000,000 $27,000,000 $5,400,000 45.0% 2018 UFA
Dwayne Bowe Chiefs $56,000,000 $11,200,000 $20,000,000 $4,000,000 35.7% 2018 UFA
Vincent Jackson Buccaneers $55,555,555 $11,111,111 $26,000,000 $5,200,000 46.8% 2017 UFA
Brandon Marshall Bears $30,000,000 $10,000,000 $14,800,000 $4,933,333 49.3% 2018 UFA
Jordy Nelson Packers $39,050,000 $9,762,500 $11,500,000 $2,875,000 29.4% 2019 UFA
Andre Johnson Texans $67,800,000 $9,685,714 $20,500,000 $2,928,571 30.2% 2017 UFA
Greg Jennings Vikings $45,000,000 $9,000,000 $17,800,000 $3,560,000 39.6% 2018 UFA
Victor Cruz Giants $43,000,000 $8,600,000 $15,629,000 $3,125,800 36.3% 2019 UFA
Pierre Garcon Redskins $42,500,000 $8,500,000 $13,100,000 $2,620,000 30.8% 2017 UFA
Antonio Brown Steelers $41,960,000 $8,392,000 $8,500,000 $1,700,000 20.3% 2018 UFA
DeSean Jackson Redskins $24,000,000 $8,000,000 $16,000,000 $5,333,333 66.7% 2017 Void
Mike Williams Bills $39,620,000 $7,924,000 $14,600,000 $2,920,000 36.9% 2019 UFA
Marques Colston Saints $36,300,000 $7,260,000 $17,700,000 $3,540,000 48.8% 2017 UFA
Eric Decker Jets $36,250,000 $7,250,000 $15,000,000 $3,000,000 41.4% 2019 UFA
Steve Johnson 49ers $36,250,000 $7,250,000 $11,000,000 $2,200,000 30.3% 2017 UFA
Golden Tate Lions $31,000,000 $6,200,000 $10,500,000 $3,000,000 41.4% 2019 UFA

MIDDLE-BOTTOM PAID WIDE RECEIVERS
Player Team Total Value Avg./Year Total Guaranteed Avg. Guarantee/Year % Guaranteed Free Agency
Tavon Austin Rams $12,751,002 $3,187,751 $12,751,002 $3,187,751 100.0% 2017 UFA
Harry Douglas Falcons $12,500,000 $3,125,000 $3,000,000 $750,000 24.0% 2016 UFA
Brandon LaFell Patriots $9,000,000 $3,000,000 $3,000,000 $1,000,000 33.3% 2017 UFA
Devin Hester Falcons $9,000,000 $3,000,000 $3,500,000 $1,166,667 38.9% 2017 UFA
Jacoby Jones Ravens $12,000,000 $3,000,000 $3,500,000 $875,000 29.2% 2018 UFA
Dexter McCluster Titans $9,000,000 $3,000,000 $4,000,000 $1,333,333 44.4% 2017 UFA
Donnie Avery Chiefs $8,550,000 $2,850,000 $3,250,000 $1,083,333 38.0% 2016 UFA
Demaryius Thomas Broncos $14,150,500 $2,830,100 $9,351,750 $1,870,350 66.1% 2015 UFA
Odell Beckham, Jr. Giants $10,406,198 $2,601,550 $10,406,198 $2,601,550 100.0% 2018 OFA
Michael Floyd Cardinals $9,971,500 $2,492,875 $9,971,500 $2,492,875 100.0% 2016 OFA
Dez Bryant Cowboys $11,810,500 $2,362,100 $8,625,000 $1,725,000 73.0% 2015 UFA
Brandin Cooks Saints $8,383,452 $2,095,863 $7,601,853 $1,900,463 90.7% 2018 OFA
Kendall Wright Titans $8,218,452 $2,054,613 $7,591,754 $1,897,939 92.4% 2016 OFA
Miles Austin Browns $2,000,000 $2,000,000 $300,000 $300,000 15.0% 2015 UFA
Matt Slater Patriots $4,000,000 $2,000,000 $3,000,000 $1,000,000 75.0% 2017 UFA
Kelvin Benjamin Panthers $7,664,250 $1,916,063 $6,199,125 $1,549,781 80.9% 2018 OFA
DeAndre Hopkins Texans $7,626,700 $1,906,675 $6,181,696 $1,545,424 81.1% 2017 UFA
Cordarrelle Patterson Vikings $7,221,046 $1,805,262 $5,831,359 $1,457,840 80.8% 2017 UFA
A.J. Jenkins Chiefs $6,947,529 $1,736,882 $5,610,139 $1,402,535 80.8% 2016 OFA
Jerricho Cotchery Panthers $8,015,000 $1,603,000 $2,250,000 $450,000 28.1% 2019 UFA
Lance Moore Steelers $3,000,000 $1,500,000 $645,000 $322,500 21.5% 2016 UFA
Kenny Britt Rams $1,400,000 $1,400,000 $550,000 $550,000 39.3% 2015 UFA
Justin Hunter Titans $5,424,148 $1,356,037 $3,841,388 $960,347 70.8% 2017 UFA
Andre Caldwell Broncos $2,700,000 $1,350,000 $400,000 $200,000 14.8% 2016 UFA
Brian Quick Rams $5,386,599 $1,346,650 $3,822,373 $955,593 71.0% 2016 UFA
Josh Gordon Browns $5,341,648 $1,335,412 $3,727,638 $931,910 69.8% 2016 UFA
Marqise Lee Jaguars $5,174,022 $1,293,506 $3,158,107 $789,527 61.0% 2018 UFA
Jordan Matthews Eagles $4,949,270 $1,237,318 $2,984,435 $746,109 60.3% 2018 UFA
Robert Woods Bills $4,866,769 $1,216,692 $2,495,685 $623,921 51.3% 2017 UFA
Dane Sanzenbacher Bengals $1,200,000 $1,200,000 $200,000 $200,000 16.7% 2015 UFA
Paul Richardson Seahawks $4,712,836 $1,178,209 $2,381,736 $595,434 50.5% 2018 UFA
Brad Smith Eagles $1,150,000 $1,150,000 $450,000 $450,000 39.1% 2015 UFA
Alshon Jeffery Bears $4,547,830 $1,136,958 $2,344,235 $586,059 51.5% 2016 UFA
Brandon Tate Bengals $1,024,000 $1,024,000 $100,000 $100,000 9.8% 2015 UFA
Santana Moss Redskins $1,020,000 $1,020,000 $65,000 $65,000 6.4% 2015 UFA
Brandon Lloyd 49ers $1,005,000 $1,005,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2015 UFA
Plaxico Burress Steelers $1,005,000 $1,005,000 $65,000 $65,000 6.5% 2014 UFA
Vincent Brown Raiders $988,339 $988,339 $25,000 $25,000 2.5% 2015 UFA
Davante Adams Packers $3,933,402 $983,351 $1,779,447 $444,862 45.2% 2018 UFA
Kassim Osgood 49ers $955,000 $955,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2015 UFA
Brandon Stokley Ravens $940,000 $940,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2014 UFA
Cody Latimer Broncos $3,708,650 $927,163 $2,025,755 $506,439 54.6% 2018 UFA
Ryan Broyles Lions $3,678,500 $919,625 $1,422,477 $355,619 38.7% 2016 UFA
Allen Robinson Jaguars $3,510,870 $877,718 $1,173,360 $293,340 33.4% 2018 UFA
Jarvis Landry Dolphins $3,474,908 $868,727 $1,067,208 $266,802 30.7% 2018 UFA
Aaron Dobson Patriots $3,428,370 $857,093 $1,173,360 $293,340 34.2% 2017 UFA
Josh Cribbs Colts $855,000 $855,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2015 UFA
Robert Meachem Saints $855,000 $855,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2015 UFA
Derek Hagan Titans $855,000 $855,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2015 UFA
Torrey Smith Ravens $3,389,232 $847,308 $1,727,508 $431,877 51.0% 2015 UFA
Rueben Randle Giants $3,291,930 $822,983 $1,007,132 $251,783 30.6% 2016 UFA
Randall Cobb Packers $3,209,421 $802,355 $1,000,500 $250,125 31.2% 2015 UFA
Darrius Heyward-Bey Steelers $795,000 $795,000 $65,000 $65,000 8.2% 2015 UFA

 

[morgulon1]

Kearse would be no better than a 3rd WR (and that's a BIG stretch) on any other team. He's just not that good.

This. He went undrafted for a reason. Hell if Sidney Rice didn't get injured (and then retired), he would not be on the field. Don't get me wrong, I loved some of the big plays he does, but sadly he's just inconsistent. I do not watch college football, but according to my UW friends he would have huge plays and huge drops. Over the past 1.5 years I see what they mean.

Agreed. I do like having him on the Seahawks though. I don't think he's dropped as many balls this year although the
one in the end zone in Kansas City hurt.

 

[hawknation2014]

If I had to compare Kearse to a different active WR, my first inclination would be Davante Adams in Green Bay. Similar size and speed, and both have excellent possession WR skills including a very good ability to attack the deep ball and also to make something happen after the catch. Both have a similar tendency to drop the easy ones, but catch the tough ones.

I don't think Adams is an elite talent. I do think that next year he'll have 1100 yards and 7 TDs. With the exception of maybe a dozen WRs in this league, the offense they play in will dictate their production more than anything else.

Ergo, it's kind of silly to judge a WR only by production. It would be like judging a pitcher by ERA.

Adams hasn't had a problem dropping balls. His drops rate is lower than rookies' Kelvin Benjamin (8 drops, 12% drop rate), Sammy Watkins (5 drops, 9% drop rate), Martavis Bryant (4 drops, 19% drop rate), or Mike Evans (4 drops, 7% drop rate).

Kearse also hasn't had a problem dropping balls, sans two bad drops this year (one for what would have been a TD).

Both Adams and Kearse are in the Top 25% of the league's receivers in drop rate.

 

[Subzero717]

Ergo, it's kind of silly to judge a WR only by production. It would be like judging a pitcher by ERA.

Isn't that how most pitchers are evaluated? Not by W-L, but by ERA?

Uh yeah. Unless I don't know what ergo means? Seattlites should grasp that with Felix winning the Cy Young.