Key Difference (Seahawks vs 49ers)

[SeaTown81]

The biggest difference between the Hawks and the Niners on offense to me is the qb's and how they impact/are impacted by their respective offenses.

Russell Wilson makes our offense better, where as CK is made better by SF's offense. If you switch the 2 players, I think we are kinda a mess on offense and SF is unstoppable.

I know the Niner fans will take this as a shot against their qb. But I see it more so as a giant compliment to Harbaugh and their coaching staff. As much as I hate his personality and attitude, Harbaugh is probably the best in the game right now in terms of handling qb's. As SF fans love to point out, he's never had an unsuccessful one. He knows how to tailor an offense to his qb's strengths better than anyone. Heck, he made Alex Smith look good last year. Again, not saying CK isn't crazy talented in certain aspects of the game. But with Harbaugh in charge, his flaws and shortcomings that would be MUCH more apparent on a lesser team, are almost unnoticeable, if not inconsequential.

Can't wait til next week. Going to be a barn burner. I fully expect SF to come out foaming at the mouth. You just know Harbaugh hasn't let them forget the butt kicking they were handed last year. I'm sure it kept him up all night just as much as the SB loss. Dude is competitive to an unhealthy level. He will have his team coming into to this game looking for blood. And the Hawks will be bringing it too. What a game to have as our home opener. And on national tv, to boot. BRING IT ON!

 

[WarHawks]

I kept wondering why we weren't taking more shots down field in the Carolina game, why we weren't running any read option plays, or at least playing more creative small ball. I like the theory that perhaps we were treating Carolina like a glorified pre-season game, holding back our full arsenal to not give SF more tape to use against us. I doubt this is really the case, but it makes me feel better. :17:

 

[TJH]

If we play like we did Sunday, we get blown out, home or not. I'm tired of Seahawks fans whining about 10am road games. Championship teams don't make excuses like that. The good thing is we're capable of much more. We need to get much better in the trenches. We were punched int he mouth sunday. I expected our guards to get abused, but I did not expect to see Unger pushed 3 yards into the pocket every play. Play calling needs to improve as well, on both sides of the ball. Our offense was incredibly vanilla and predictable. Going from watching our game to watching the 9ers/Packers was night and day. The verticality is missing. More than just lobbing one up every now and then, we need to make them respect the deep ball and the run will open. Also, Pete needs to be ready to abandon the base Leo pressure if pass rush cannot get home.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

The reason the 49ers protection looked so good Sunday is because the Packers were selling out for the run. They were staying in their lanes, not rushing the passer at full strength. They succeeded at that, but it cost them 400+ yards through the air.

The biggest difference between the Hawks and the Niners on offense to me is the qb's and how they impact/are impacted by their respective offenses.

Russell Wilson makes our offense better, where as CK is made better by SF's offense.

Then explain how the offense got several points per game better when Colin took over for Alex Smith. Also, what particular aspect of Kap's game has this system improved that wouldn't have been changed through general fundamental coaching?

If you switch the 2 players, I think we are kinda a mess on offense and SF is unstoppable.

I know the Niner fans will take this as a shot against their qb. But I see it more so as a giant compliment to Harbaugh and their coaching staff. As much as I hate his personality and attitude, Harbaugh is probably the best in the game right now in terms of handling qb's. As SF fans love to point out, he's never had an unsuccessful one. He knows how to tailor an offense to his qb's strengths better than anyone. Heck, he made Alex Smith look good last year. Again, not saying CK isn't crazy talented in certain aspects of the game. But with Harbaugh in charge, his flaws and shortcomings that would be MUCH more apparent on a lesser team, are almost unnoticeable, if not inconsequential.

Can't wait til next week. Going to be a barn burner. I fully expect SF to come out foaming at the mouth. You just know Harbaugh hasn't let them forget the butt kicking they were handed last year. I'm sure it kept him up all night just as much as the SB loss. Dude is competitive to an unhealthy level. He will have his team coming into to this game looking for blood. And the Hawks will be bringing it too. What a game to have as our home opener. And on national tv, to boot. BRING IT ON!

I would say that Harbaugh has certainly made Kap a better quarterback, no doubt about it. But Colin's work ethic and intelligence have helped a great deal as well. What Harbaugh has done is taken a raw rookie who wasn't NFL ready and coached him up on how to read defenses and follow progressions. But Kap's talent makes the 49ers offense better and there is no question about it. The entire field is vulnerable because of his ability. Contrast that with Alex Smith.



Now, would RW make this offense better? Maybe, but I don't think so (if the system was identical). RW likes to hold the ball way too much for this offense. In our scheme, the ball usually has to be out on time and quick. RW is amazing at the scramble drill. Better than CK. But statistics show that CK is better at throwing from the pocket on time.

Could Harbaugh make RW better at that? Maybe, and if so you'd have a good point. But we can only go by what evidence is presented, and at this point I would say the offense wouldn't even be the same with RW, because he has a different skill set. Harbaugh would have modified the offense to work for RW's strengths. I'd call it apples to oranges.

 

[Giedi]

If we play like we did Sunday, we get blown out, home or not. I'm tired of Seahawks fans whining about 10am road games. Championship teams don't make excuses like that. The good thing is we're capable of much more. We need to get much better in the trenches. We were punched int he mouth sunday. I expected our guards to get abused, but I did not expect to see Unger pushed 3 yards into the pocket every play. Play calling needs to improve as well, on both sides of the ball. Our offense was incredibly vanilla and predictable. Going from watching our game to watching the 9ers/Packers was night and day. The verticality is missing. More than just lobbing one up every now and then, we need to make them respect the deep ball and the run will open. Also, Pete needs to be ready to abandon the base Leo pressure if pass rush cannot get home.

I think the 'Hawks will play much much better at home than they did at Carolina. The 12th man will make sure they are pumped up for it, and also make sure that the Refs are intimidated by them. Not saying bad call's aren't going to happen. They probably will, and the 12th man is key to making sure the bad calls will be on the 49er's side of the ball - again via sheer intimidation. I don't mean the Refs will be scared to make the correct calls, but the noise level and the sheer dominance of the crowd noise will *unconsciously* intimidate *anybody* be it a player, coach or referee.

It's up to the 49er team as a whole to play well even in the face of that intimidating crowd. I'm pretty sure, if there is *one* game where Pete is going all out and throwing everything at the opposing team but the kitchen sink, it will be this game. I truly believe trick plays, special teams fakes, and going for 4rth downs is going to be big for Pete in this game. He's going to leave it all on the field just like the rest of the 'Hawk's. Both teams will be exhausted, but I'm pretty sure the 'Hawks will be playing at 110% and be hitting on all their money plays. That's just how they play at C-link.

Giedi

 

[themunn]

Now, would RW make this offense better? Maybe, but I don't think so (if the system was identical). RW likes to hold the ball way too much for this offense. In our scheme, the ball usually has to be out on time and quick. RW is amazing at the scramble drill. Better than CK. But statistics show that CK is better at throwing from the pocket on time.

Whilst it's true that Wilson held onto the ball longer than anyone else in the league last year, your statement is nonsense - seeing as Colin Kaepernick was 2nd behind him.
It's also a completely useless stat, Christian Ponder got the ball out faster than Aaron Rodgers last year, for example. It tells you absolutely nothing, apart from the fact that if Rodgers' line was better his time would be EVEN HIGHER.

Both QBs have that "time holding on to the ball" inflated because they can avoid pressure.
If PFF and all these other nonsense statmongers were to look at it properly, they would calculate the time held onto the ball before passing without a QB hurry, the time held onto the ball until the first QB hurry, the time held onto the ball AFTER the hurry on completed passes and the time held onto the ball when that hurry results in a sack.

Those are the 4 things you need to know. Take the famous run by Wilson against the 49ers last year where he made Brooks miss twice and outran Smith before eventually rushing. From the moment the ball is snapped until Wilson crossed the line of scrimmage was 13 seconds.
With 30 dropbacks, that 13 second run adds 0.433 seconds per dropback to the length of time he held onto the ball for the entire game. He did that all season long, extended plays with his legs and inflated the length of time he held onto the ball.
In the same game, in the redzone he threw 2 touchdowns to Doug Baldwin in under 2 seconds TOTAL after the snap.

 

[kearly]

49ers pass pro = Seahawks pass pro, roughly speaking. The difference is that Kaepernick fires the ball in 4 seconds or less pretty consistently. Wilson LOVED holding the ball in this game. I wonder what his average hold time was? It had to have been at least 5 seconds.

Agree'd. I think at times Wilson makes our pass protection look worse then it really is. If that's Peyton Manning back there the ball is getting released in 2 seconds and nobody here is complaining about anything. But, that's not Wilsons game (and to be honest I think it has to do with his height). He's better when he's moving around within the pocket creating angles then just getting the snap and trying to release the ball on perfect rhythm.

Perfectly stated.

I do think the reason for the long hold time is height, but I do think he can overcome it with coaching and experience. Drew Brees does not hold the ball like Wilson does. I think this is something that the team needs to make a coaching point just like they did with the scramble drill for WRs last offseason.

 

[kearly]

Whilst it's true that Wilson held onto the ball longer than anyone else in the league last year, your statement is nonsense - seeing as Colin Kaepernick was 2nd behind him.
It's also a completely useless stat, Christian Ponder got the ball out faster than Aaron Rodgers last year, for example. It tells you absolutely nothing, apart from the fact that if Rodgers' line was better his time would be EVEN HIGHER.

Both QBs have that "time holding on to the ball" inflated because they can avoid pressure.
If PFF and all these other nonsense statmongers were to look at it properly, they would calculate the time held onto the ball before passing without a QB hurry, the time held onto the ball until the first QB hurry, the time held onto the ball AFTER the hurry on completed passes and the time held onto the ball when that hurry results in a sack.

Those are the 4 things you need to know. Take the famous run by Wilson against the 49ers last year where he made Brooks miss twice and outran Smith before eventually rushing. From the moment the ball is snapped until Wilson crossed the line of scrimmage was 13 seconds.
With 30 dropbacks, that 13 second run adds 0.433 seconds per dropback to the length of time he held onto the ball for the entire game. He did that all season long, extended plays with his legs and inflated the length of time he held onto the ball.
In the same game, in the redzone he threw 2 touchdowns to Doug Baldwin in under 2 seconds TOTAL after the snap.

What I am curious about is the frequency, not the duration. How often does Wilson hold the ball 4 seconds or more compared to the rest of the league? Because watching him play, it feels like he'd lead the league in that number.

 

[Kixkahn]

If it were anyone else besides Wilson I'd agree.. but even with the blitzing and chaos.. he only took one clear shot today. He's so elusive and hard to grab that I don't see injuries being a concern.

If memory serves, the line was a bit shaky at the start of the year last season too and at the end it was much better.. hope that happens again

However sooner please. We need the line protecting him now not later.

 

[hawker84]

I think the reason he holds the ball too long on occassion, is because nobody's open, as i rewatched the game, and others from last season, when he got rid of the ball relatively fast, recievers had seperation, when he held it long, receivers were not open or very tightly covered. just an observation. I don't mind he holds the ball sometimes, but he's got to get that internal clock right and know when to dump it out of bounds or throw it at someones feet.. There's no doubt this will improve as the season goes on..

 

[Kixkahn]

There is no comparing how these two lines looked today.SF is head and shoulders above ours in talent and coaching IMO.

This is the second time this is one here and you are dead wrong. Go back to your 49ers sight.

 

[kearly]

Russell Wilson makes our offense better, where as CK is made better by SF's offense. If you switch the 2 players, I think we are kinda a mess on offense and SF is unstoppable.

The way I see it, I think both offenses would be worse if we swapped QBs. Kaepernick's flaws are masked by Harbaugh's schemes very well, and his ability to run the ball with little injury risk is pretty huge for their pistol offense. They would have to completely change their offense for Wilson, because Wilson is not a guy you want to see getting 5-10 carries a game. Wilson has really benefited from his weapons in Seattle, SF's weapons are nowhere near as good as ours, IMO. Their O-line is a tiny bit better, but it's a lot closer than most people think. I think both QBs are in literally perfect situations and both would suffer if moved.

I do think Wilson is better and I do agree with your assessment about RW making our offense and vice versa for CK. That said, they took the training wheels off CK in week 1 and he looked really, really good. So I think it's a lot closer right now than it was before.

 

[themunn]

Anyway, to talk about the actual topic at hand, IMO the key is SF's red zone offense.
Seattle simply don't allow long TDs, our defense is designed around preventing big plays, and forcing teams to beat us with 10-15 yards plays, which eventually end in the redzone if we don't stop them before that. Over 2/3s of the TDs we did concede last year were from the red-zone, despite the fact that were actually 2nd in the league for allowing red-zone attempts. That tells you how much you need to know about our scoring defense.

Kaepernick simply hasn't had enough opportunities to show if he is a red-zone star. Last year he had less than 50% completion percentage (in 29 attempts) with less than 19 yards to go, and 5 TDs and 1 INT. (for comparison, Wilson had twice as many attempts with 59, but completed 57% of his passes for 18 TDs and 0 INTs).

Kaepernick DID look good against Green Bay (4 of 5 for 2 TDs and 0 Ints), but Green Bay were one of the worst red zone defenses last week in scoring percentage (allowing a TD over 60% of the time), whereas Seattle were top 5 (under 50%, and a staggeringly low 33% at home, which was by far the best in the league).

I know I've fired a lot of numbers in here, but the key ones to remember are that we only allowed 8 defensive TDs at home all season last year, only 2 of which were greater than 20 yards - one by Dallas in the second game of the season (their only score), and one by Tom Brady.
Simply put, Kaepernick has his work cut out again.

 

[themunn]

What I am curious about is the frequency, not the duration. How often does Wilson hold the ball 4 seconds or more compared to the rest of the league? Because watching him play, it feels like he'd lead the league in that number.

Apparently such a stat is available to premium PFF members, but I have no interest in paying (nor do I have interest in that).

I'd like to see a distribution of Wilson's times, rather than a frequency of over 4s, I reckon there would almost be a double hump, whereas most players have a spike near 2-3 seconds then it tails off, Wilson either gets rid of the ball quickly, or holds on for a while. It's almost as if there's no in between, and he's more likely to hold onto it for 1-2s or 6-7s than 4

 

[Popeyejones]

Their O-line is a tiny bit better, but it's a lot closer than most people think.

C'mon now. Most commentators and analysts (rightly) think the 9ers have the best OL in the entire league, and true or not, I've literally never heard a single person even put the Seahawks in that conversation.

Watching the Hawks all pre-season and against the Panthers, they're probably even farther away from that conversation than I thought they were.

Perhaps it's closer than everyone thinks, but "tiny bit better" is pretty laughable. It's like saying the Hawks' secondary (like the 9ers Oline, routinely acknowledged (rightly) as the best in the league) is just a "tiny bit better" than the 9ers secondary, which is insane.

 

[bucky]

It was ridiculous how long Kap could sit back there in the pocket. I think the only times the Packers got to him was when he decided to keep it on a run option. Part of that was good SF O-line, part because of Packers lack of pass rush, which was partly due to their overreaction to absolutely prevent Kap from running whatsoever.

I understand why the Packers needed to do that, but they should have adjusted their strategy at halftime a bit. It was clear that Kap was afraid to run and get hit (probably due to coaches orders). Whenever he ran, he slid wayyyy early. Last year, he was making kick returner shifty moves to get past the defenders, but he isn't this year.

Hawks need to find the right balance on defense and mix things up.

 

[Marvin49]

I think there are really very few lessons to be learned for Seattle by watching the 49ers-Packers.

1) I think it's funny how people are just kinda saying that the 'Hawks will have zero trouble passing the ball, after all...look what the Packers did. yeah. I like Russell Wilson and all, but Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the game. Those recievers made some INCREDIBLE catches (the one over Asomugha, Nelson on the sideline...ridiculous). You guys act like the Packers are the Jags or something. LOL. The Packers are a perennial Super Bowl contender.

2) "Packers could stop the run and they suck...we should have no problem". Yeah....not so much. The Packers absolutely sold out to stop the run. Their DE's would never run past the QB. They would stop when they got paralell...and then crash down to prevent Kaep from escaping. They were also run blitzing all freakin day.

3) This ties into the last one...the Packers game plan was to eliminate the run in any way they could and force Kaepernick to beat them with his arm...and that's exactly what he did. 444 Total Yards and 4 TDs in January. 434 Total Yards and 3 TDs on Sunday.

None of this is to say that the Niners win on Sunday. I've already predicted a Seahawk win. I'm just saying you are adding 2 and 2 and getting 36.

 

[Marvin49]

It was ridiculous how long Kap could sit back there in the pocket. I think the only times the Packers got to him was when he decided to keep it on a run option. Part of that was good SF O-line, part because of Packers lack of pass rush, which was partly due to their overreaction to absolutely prevent Kap from running whatsoever.

I understand why the Packers needed to do that, but they should have adjusted their strategy at halftime a bit. It was clear that Kap was afraid to run and get hit (probably due to coaches orders). Whenever he ran, he slid wayyyy early. Last year, he was making kick returner shifty moves to get past the defenders, but he isn't this year.

Hawks need to find the right balance on defense and mix things up.

The bolded part is absolutely correct.

The Seahawks will come in with a different gameplan and better personnel. I don't expect the same results.

 

[jlwaters1]

There is no comparing how these two lines looked today.SF is head and shoulders above ours in talent and coaching IMO.

And yet they got shut down running the ball, right. If SF OL was really as elite and everyone seems to assume they would have ran it down GB's throat. They were just as thoroughly shut down as Seattle was in terms of running the ball.

 

[Marvin49]

There is no comparing how these two lines looked today.SF is head and shoulders above ours in talent and coaching IMO.

And yet they got shut down running the ball, right. If SF OL was really as elite and everyone seems to assume they would have ran it down GB's throat. They were just as thoroughly shut down as Seattle was in terms of running the ball.

Everything isn't black and white. The run game was shut down because the Packers sold out to stop the run. Run blitzing on nearly every down and exposing themselves to the passing game. Some think it was Tolzien talking to the packers about the Niner run game, but I don't buy that. I just think that after giving up 300 yards on the ground in January they were going to do everything in their power to make sure it didn't happen again.